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Relics

gordonrutter said:
The Ancient Greek Theatre is probably where St Genesius got it from.
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Saints don't choose their emblems. Emblems are foisted on them long after they are dead by the Catholic Church.
 
escargot said:
Saints don't choose their emblems. Emblems are foisted on them long after they are dead by the Catholic Church.
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Indeed not as by definition a saint is dead. I meant he as a saint got it from there ie the church gave it to him, not he as a person
 
gordonrutter said:
Indeed not as by definition a saint is dead. I meant he as a saint got it from there ie the church gave it to him, not he as a person
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St Genesius had been an actor in Roman theatre which was derived from the Greek original. He would have been familiar with the old sock and buskin and might have approved.

Genesius has other 'jobs' as a patron saint (of lawyers, dancers, printers etc) so could have been given, I dunno, a wig? A tutu?
 
escargot said:
St Genesius had been an actor in Roman theatre which was derived from the Greek original. He would have been familiar with the old sock and buskin and might have approved.

Genesius has other 'jobs' as a patron saint (of lawyers, dancers, printers etc) so could have been given, I dunno, a wig? A tutu?
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Most saints are multiple, could give them all of the above I suppose!
 
gordonrutter said:
Most saints are multiple, could give them all of the above I suppose!
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They'd need to be tagged with something easy for illiterate worshippers to recognise. The mask is highly appropriate for Genesius as he'd have seen ones like it in life.

St Gertrude has a cat. I'm not a Catholic but if I were she's the sort of saint I could get behind.
 
escargot said:
They'd need to be tagged with something easy for illiterate worshippers to recognise. The mask is highly appropriate for Genesius as he'd have seen ones like it in life.

St Gertrude has a cat. I'm not a Catholic but if I were she's the sort of saint I could get behind.
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Need the patience of a saint to have a cat at times!
 
EnolaGaia said:
A rare scientific examination of remains at Rome's Santi Apostoli church failed to validate them as relics of Saint Philip and Saint James the Younger. ...
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Here are the bibliographic details on the published article, which is accessible (in full) at the link below.

Rasmussen, K.L., van der Plicht, J., La Nasa, J. et al.
Investigations of the relics and altar materials relating to the apostles St James and St Philip at the Basilica dei Santi XII Apostoli in Rome.
Herit Sci 9, 14 (2021).
https://doi.org/10.1186/s40494-021-00481-9

FULL ARTICLE:
https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-021-00481-9
 
Reading this thread reminds me I had a cousin who was a buddy of John Paul II. I wish I would've asked him for a relic back when they were both alive. :(
 
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probably double-posted but not bad. It does remind me of a time that is long ago.
 
Souleater said:
As with most relics it is is probably not what it is purported to be and is some 11th century monks skull :(
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That's part of the fun!


Analogue Boy said:
I’m not sure how accurate these reconstructions over skulls can be. There has to be room for creative interpretation there surely.
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That';s also part of the fun :twothumbs:
 
Frideswide said:
That's part of the fun!



That';s also part of the fun :twothumbs:
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Im guessing the church wont want to take the risk, but if someone could get a 3D scan of it there are computer programs that can do facial reconstruction from a scan.
 
Analogue Boy said:
There is a reconstruction.
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Thank you! and she looks reasonable - not a blue-eyed blonde I mean. I'm also pleased that she looks like a person you'd be happy to have in charge of the woodchipper
 
Analogue Boy said:
I’m not sure how accurate these reconstructions over skulls can be. There has to be room for creative interpretation there surely.
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I absolutely think so too. Sometimes they have a caricaturesque quality and one can almost always detect the hand or sensibility of the artist in the reconstruction, in the same way one can detect the artist in realist paintings. Subtlety matters, and with the Egyptian reconstructions and others, there is the whole endless race debate; phenotypes don't always match with "racial" interpretations, etc.
 
Relic Recovered.

The Catholic Church was shocked last month when an ornate golden artefact said to contain drops of Jesus's blood was stolen shortly before an annual celebration in northern France.

For 1,000 years, pilgrims have headed to Fécamp abbey in Normandy to worship the "Precious Blood of Christ" relics.

Six weeks later, a Dutch art sleuth has described how the relics were handed over to him in an elaborate operation. Arthur Brand says he will now give them to police to return them to the abbey.

"Seven to eight per cent of stolen art is returned and much of it is destroyed. In this case, I think the thief had no idea what it was," he told the BBC.

The relics were stolen late at night on 1 June from the sacristy at Fécamp, north-east of the port of Le Havre. The thief is believed to have been locked in the building overnight and there was little security at the time.

The relics contained two lead vials which, according to legend, were thrown into the sea in a trunk and washed ashore at Fécamp. As well as the lead bulbs, a number of liturgical dishes and other objects were stolen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62092195
 
ramonmercado said:
Relic Recovered.

The Catholic Church was shocked last month when an ornate golden artefact said to contain drops of Jesus's blood was stolen shortly before an annual celebration in northern France.

For 1,000 years, pilgrims have headed to Fécamp abbey in Normandy to worship the "Precious Blood of Christ" relics.

Six weeks later, a Dutch art sleuth has described how the relics were handed over to him in an elaborate operation. Arthur Brand says he will now give them to police to return them to the abbey.

"Seven to eight per cent of stolen art is returned and much of it is destroyed. In this case, I think the thief had no idea what it was," he told the BBC.

The relics were stolen late at night on 1 June from the sacristy at Fécamp, north-east of the port of Le Havre. The thief is believed to have been locked in the building overnight and there was little security at the time.

The relics contained two lead vials which, according to legend, were thrown into the sea in a trunk and washed ashore at Fécamp. As well as the lead bulbs, a number of liturgical dishes and other objects were stolen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62092195
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Several articles claim that the relics were returned because the thief was afraid of damnation. An interesting detail, if it's true !

exemple : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-Jesus-blood-relic-stolen-French-church.html

Or in French : https://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/pat...recieux-sang-reapparait-aux-pays-bas-20220712
 
A glitzy copper box containing two lead vials with what Catholics believe is the 2,000-year-old blood of Jesus Christ will soon be returned to the French abbey in Normandy from which it was stolen June 1.

Art-Detective-Says-Clueless-Thief-Who-Stole-%E2%80%98Jesus-Blood-Freaked-750x375.jpeg


Dutch art detective Arthur Brand, whose sleuthing has led to the recovery of countless pieces of priceless art including gold stolen by Hitler and masterpieces by the likes of Picasso, says he was able to retrieve the blood vials and several other artifacts after the clueless thief got scared.

The person who retrieved the trunk of treasures from the original thief then reached out to Brand, who had been actively searching for the stolen items. “This is as close as one can get to Jesus Christ, The Knights Templar and the Holy Grail,” Brand tweeted after he recovered the items. “As a Catholic myself and a huge Dan Brown fan, it doesn’t get any better.”

Brand said the person who ended up with the loot—who Brand does not think is the person who stole it—made an arrangement to drop the stolen relics at Brand’s home. “This person was approaching me on behalf of another, at whose home the stolen relics were being stored,” Brand told AFP. “To have the ultimate relic, the blood of Jesus in your home, stolen, that’s a curse.”

Brand then waited for more than a week for the return of the art. “I was virtually a prisoner in my own home for a week. I could not leave,” he told AFP.

The relics were stolen from the Fecamp Abbey near Calais, France, after thieves hid after abbey was closed and spent the night pilfering artifacts just two weeks before the “Sacred Blood Celebration” was to be held in which the blood would taken out for worshipers to pray to. In addition to the blood vials—which have drawn droves of Catholic pilgrims each year for the last 1,000 years—the thieves stole a chalice, a ciborium, liturgical dishes, and other works of art and pieces of gold.

https://dnyuz.com/2022/07/12/art-de...-stole-jesus-blood-freaked-when-he-found-out/

maximus otter
 
Thousands flock to see Bernadette's bones.

Thousands of people have visited a Yorkshire cathedral to see the relics of of a 19th Century saint who is said to have seen the Virgin Mary. BBC News spoke to people who had made the trip to Leeds Cathedral to see the remains of St Bernadette to find out what drove them to attend.

The Very Reverend Matthew Habron, dean of the cathedral, is clear why the crowds have come, describing it as an "historic and unique occasion".

There is no doubting the devotion of those attending at the church in the centre of Leeds. After welcoming 1,000 people on Monday, Canon Habron says that since they opened the doors at 07:45 BST on Tuesday another 1,000 worshippers have passed through. He expects the total number of people to surpass 3,000.

"This is the first time and probably the only time the relics of St Bernadette of Lourdes will visit us," he said. "It's a great way for people to express their faith, their love of God, the love of Our Lady and of St Bernadette as well."

But what are the thousands coming to see?

Inside an ornate reliquary perched within a glass case on a pedestal lie pieces of bone, the knee caps and hair of Bernadette Soubirous.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-63131525
 
Brigid; Bones Back In Town.

A relic of Saint Brigid has returned to her home town after around 1,000 years away.

Hundreds of people gathered in Kildare on Sunday morning for a special church service to mark the historic occasion.

The homecoming event, which also saw a procession to the church, was held in what is believed to be the 1,500th anniversary year of St Brigid’s death.

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The relic of St Brigid was taken to the local church in a procession (Brian Lawless/PA)

Brigid, a renowned peace-maker, was buried beside the main altar at a monastic church in Kildare, with her grave becoming a shrine for visiting pilgrims. Around 300 years later, when the Vikings were raiding Ireland, her remains were moved to Downpatrick Cathedral in present-day Northern Ireland for safekeeping. There they were buried in an unmarked grave alongside Saint Patrick and Saint Columba.

Over the next centuries the location of the grave was apparently lost. According to Christian history, in 1185 the Bishop of Down prayed to God to show him the location of the three saints’ relics and a beam of light shone on a spot of the church’s floor, leading to the rediscovery of the remains. The relics remained as a shrine at the church for the next 400 years before it was reputedly destroyed by Lord Leonard Grey, an appointee of King Henry VIII.

Despite the destruction of the shrine, the relics were apparently saved and spirited away to the Continent, with tradition holding that three Irish knights took a fragment of St Brigid’s remains to a small town outside Lisbon in Portugal called Lumiar. That relic is still venerated in the church of St John the Baptist in Lumiar today.

A portion of the relic was brought back to Ireland in the 1930s by the Brigidine Sisters in Tullow, Co Carlow. That is now being moved to St Brigid’s parish church in Kildare, where it will be housed in a specially designed shrine.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41319178.html
 
Bernie's bones brings bumper bunch to procession.

A candlelight procession snaked its way around the grounds of the historical Holy Cross Abbey in Tipperary, the long queue making it look like a respectful group of mourners waiting to extend their sympathies to a grief-stricken family.

But instead, there was a joy to be felt in the congregation as those waiting to get inside the door of the church felt that every step was one closer to coming close to the relics of St Bernadette, the Lourdes visionary.

It was not the only candelight procession during the two-month visit of the relics to each of the 26 dioceses across Ireland, as organisers of the relics’ visit sought to bring those who cannot travel to the Marian shrine in Lourdes a chance to be part of some of the pilgrimage experience at home. As well as candelight processions, healing ceremonies for the sick were also held.

On Tuesday afternoon, the relics of the popular saint left the Diocese of Elphin to be returned to Lourdes, after a farewell ceremony in Kiltoom, Co Roscommon. Tens of thousands of people turned out in the country’s 26 dioceses to welcome the relics of the saint beloved by Irish people.

St Bernadette, who was a shepherdess, experienced 18 visions of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes, France in 1858 and went on to become canonised by the Catholic church.

The visit to Ireland is not the first time the relics have left Lourdes, having previously been taken around France, to the UK, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Brazil, and America.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41510690.html
 
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