Religious Stampedes

Analogue Boy

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I’m currently dreading the oncoming feast of St.Michael of Halloween. Here in the UK, those tubs of chocolates have got shallower with no discernible price drop as far as I can see so I have to spend more to placate the little trick or treat buggers.
 

Analogue Boy

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Another stampede.

BAGHDAD (AP) — A walkway collapsed and set off a stampede in the holy city of Karbala on Tuesday as thousands of Shiite Muslims marked one of the most solemn holy days of the year. At least 31 people were killed and about 100 were injured, officials said.

It was the deadliest stampede in recent history during Ashoura commemorations, when hundreds of thousands of people converge on the city, some 80 kilometers (50 miles) south of Baghdad, for the occasion every year.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/karb...pmgnews__TheMorningEmail__091219&guccounter=1

You could say it’s almost as if.... nah. Not going there.
 

Mythopoeika

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Oh, sorry, misheard... Baghdad Shi'ites.
 
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Jim

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I’m currently dreading the oncoming feast of St.Michael of Halloween. Here in the UK, those tubs of chocolates have got shallower with no discernible price drop as far as I can see so I have to spend more to placate the little trick or treat buggers.
Send them to my house we lov the little buggers with all their interesting costumes and excitement. I'll just watch some Hammer horror classics ready to pause at a moments notice till ~ 9 PM or so.
 

escargot

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Send them to my house we lov the little buggers with all their interesting costumes and excitement. I'll just watch some Hammer horror classics ready to pause at a moments notice till ~ 9 PM or so.

We have a Halloween thread for that sort of thing.
 

ramonmercado

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I guess this fits here.

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — A stampede erupted on Tuesday at a funeral procession for a top Iranian general killed in a U.S. airstrike last week, killing 32 people and injuring 190 others, state television reported.

According to the report, the stampede took place in Kerman, the hometown of Revolutionary Guard Gen. Qassem Soleimani, as the procession got underway. Initial videos posted online showed people lying lifeless on a road and others shouting and trying to help them.

Iranian state TV gave the casualty toll in its online report, citing Pirhossein Koulivand, the head of Iran’s emergency medical services.
“Unfortunately as a result of the stampede, some of our compatriots have been injured and some have been killed during the funeral processions,” he earlier said.

Authorities later delayed Soleimani’s burial, citing concerns about the massive crowd that had gathered, the semi-official ISNA news agency said. It did not say when the burial would take place.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stampede-funeral-procession-iran-dead-injured_n_5e145232c5b6b5a713c04448
 
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AlchoPwn

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I guess this fits here. TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — A stampede erupted on Tuesday at a funeral procession for a top Iranian general killed in a U.S. airstrike last week, killing 32 people and injuring 190 others, state television reported.
It killed more Iranians than the drone strike. Perhaps the USA needs to do this more regularly in countries that have no concept of abstract ideas and organizational systems like basic crowd control?
 

Mythopoeika

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It killed more Iranians than the drone strike. Perhaps the USA needs to do this more regularly in countries that have no concept of abstract ideas and organizational systems like basic crowd control?
It happens every year at the Hajj. No need for the USA to get involved.
 

ramonmercado

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It happens every year at the Hajj. No need for the USA to get involved.

At Mecca you're talking about it happening on a mass scale, around 1,000 killed on some occasions.
 

AlchoPwn

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It happens every year at the Hajj. No need for the USA to get involved.
Oh dear, imagine what would the world look like if some terror cell used a dirty bomb on Mecca at Hajj? Of course the USA is a staunch ally of the Saudis so they would never be involved in such a thing.
 
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ramonmercado

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This time it's holy rollers, the talking in tongues can get out of hand. Oil on the floor? I can hear Slip sliding Away playing in the background.

At least 20 people have been crushed to death and 16 others injured during an outdoor religious service in Tanzania.

Worshippers were attending a Pentecostal service at a stadium in the northern town of Moshi on Saturday evening when the incident occurred. Moshi district commissioner Kippi Warioba said attendees rushed forward to be anointed with blessed oil. Tanzania's President John Magufuli sent his condolences and called for better security at such large events.

The service was held by pastor Boniface Mwamposa, who refers to himself as "the apostle". Survivors said Mr Mwamposa told hundreds of people gathered at the service to pass through an area where "blessed oil" had been poured over the floor.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51346644
 

AlchoPwn

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This time it's holy rollers, the talking in tongues can get out of hand. Oil on the floor? I can hear Slip sliding Away playing in the background. At least 20 people have been crushed to death and 16 others injured during an outdoor religious service in Tanzania. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51346644
Oil is for anointing. It is supposed to go on the head. After they fell over they were anointed "with extreme unction".
 

Mythopoeika

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Oil is for anointing. It is supposed to go on the head. After they fell over they were anointed "with extreme unction".
Anointed by gravity.
 

INT21

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Oh dear, imagine what would the world look like if some terror cell used a dirty bomb on Mecca at Hajj? Of course the USA is a staunch ally of the Saudis so they would never be involved in such a thing.

But you could slip Netanyahu a few shekels ?
 

EnolaGaia

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A crowd crush or stampede has caused dozens of deaths at an Orthodox Jewish festival in Israel.
Israel stampede: Dozens killed in crush at religious festival

Dozens of people have been killed in a stampede at a religious festival in the north-east of Israel.

Israel's national emergency service Magen David Adom (MDA) confirmed the deaths without giving exact numbers, and said dozens more had been wounded.

Newspaper Haaretz reports at least 38 people have been killed. Emergency services are evacuating the injured. ...

Videos posted online show thousands of people tightly packed together and trying to flee the chaos at the site.

It is the largest event held in the country since the coronavirus pandemic began, with tens of thousands reportedly attending. ...

Tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews make a pilgrimage to Meron each year for Lag B'Omer, an annual religious holiday marked with bonfires, prayer and dancing.

According to the Times of Israel, organisers estimated that 100,000 people arrived on Thursday night, with more set to arrive on Friday. ...

FULL STORY: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56938657
 

Victory

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This tragedy in Israel is of great pain to me.

Tonight and tommorow are the festival of Lag B'Omer....meant to be one of the happiest days of the religious calendar.

A festival with many layers of meaning, but essentially linked to the memory of Rabbi Simon bar Yochai who lived in the 2nd century and was responsible for learning and passing on the teachings of the Zohar, a major book of Kabbalah.
It is traditionally regarded as the date of his death, though it is not certain if this is fact.
His death is marked by celebrating, as is the custom for the memory of some righteous people.

He is buried at Meron, a small village near the city of Tzfat, and the night is an occasion for bonfires, dancing, praying and some study.

Lag B'Omer is not merely for "Orthodox" Jews, most Israelis mark it as a holiday with BBQs, and for the less religious it is linked to Bar Kochba's rebellion against the Romans.

This disaster will send spiritual shockwaves throughout the Jewish world, Rabbi Shimon was regarded as someone who could intercede to ward off death decrees on account of the merit of his learning...for this to happen on this day is especially significant.
 
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EnolaGaia

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WeeScottishLassie

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Frideswide

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Stay on topic! The title of the thread is not Let your anti-religion stance glow and make light of multiple deaths. We have threads for when things go wrong.

As always, if you disagree or want to discuss this then take it to PM or the correct thread. Don't derail this one - diversions will be snipped.

Frideswide
 

Min Bannister

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It seems extremely mean-spirited for posters to crow about the deaths of so many people just because they are not personally into religion. I have been in two crushes in my life. Neither had do do with religion. Both were terrifying. It was only luck that no-one died. It only takes one person to lose their footing and that is it. A crush could happen to anyone. And they do. Football matches, nighclubs. Do those people also deserve to die? What if they supported the "wrong" club or listen to the "wrong" sort of music? No. :rcard:
 

Jim

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Stay on topic! The title of the thread is not Let your anti-religion stance glow and make light of multiple deaths. We have threads for when things go wrong.

As always, if you disagree or want to discuss this then take it to PM or the correct thread. Don't derail this one - diversions will be snipped.

Frideswide
Frideswide, I've never posted an anti-religious statement to date on the forums. All I was doing was trying to turn a terrible situation towards humor, that's. But are these mobs really are they religious? A reading of Christ or Buddha perhaps. That's off topic but it is said to prove my point. I find a bit of humor can take the sting out of these terrible things. Apologies if I sounded anti-religious I'm not.
 
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GNC

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Frideswide I've never posted an anti-religious statement to date on the forums. Personally I remain open yet cautious in this area. All I was doing was trying to turn a terrible situation towards humor, that's. I find a bit of humor can take the sting out of these terrible things. Apologies if I sounded anti-religious I'm not.

Finding comedy in the mass deaths of Jews = not a good look.
 

Victory

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It has emerged that the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem had been at the event and left two hours early, urging the police to take immediate action because he felt people were in danger from large crowds. He says the police did not listen to him.
I guess they felt the event had occurred in the past without fatalities, and he was being alarmist?

A tweet from 2018 has surfaced, from a journalist, warning that at this gathering, the crowds would exit from the music site along a relatively narrow tunnel bordered by metal and stone walls, and that it was a disaster waiting to happen.

From various blogs that I know and trust, written by people who had relatives at the event, it seems that part of a grandstand collapsed above the tunnel, and that in the following confusion, some people feinted (perhaps they fell a few feet to the ground and were unconscious for that reason?).
Their friends tried to get them out of the crowds to get medical attention.

Then some people fell in the exit tunnel below the grandstand area, perhaps these were the ones who had feinted, falling into the tunnel, or were other people?
It is not clear if the grandstand collapse caused the first people to fall in the exit tunnel.
Others fell on them and so on, also falling on some steep steps near the tunnel.

One story of heroism has emerged, of a particularly strong man who somehow managed to hold back part of the crowd to make space for others.

There are allegations that the police (at first) did not help, and viewed things as crowd disorder rather than an urgent crisis.
I am loathe to blanket blame them as a force, as once the scale of the disaster became realised then they did disperse the crowds and prevent more people entering the area.
The speed of the fatal crush and chaos/confusion would have played their part.
But some police failings seem to have happened, and an investiagtion will show many lessons to be learned.

Similarities to Hillsborough - of an infrastructure not suited to the purpose it was being used for, of lack of immediate awareness amongst the police, of a crowded tunnel where extricating people would be hard, and of members of the public and emergency services doing their best against overwhelming odds.
 

Mythopoeika

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It has emerged that the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem had been at the event and left two hours early, urging the police to take immediate action because he felt people were in danger from large crowds. He says the police did not listen to him.
I guess they felt the event had occurred in the past without fatalities, and he was being alarmist?

A tweet from 2018 has surfaced, from a journalist, warning that at this gathering, the crowds would exit from the music site along a relatively narrow tunnel bordered by metal and stone walls, and that it was a disaster waiting to happen.

From various blogs that I know and trust, written by people who had relatives at the event, it seems that part of a grandstand collapsed above the tunnel, and that in the following confusion, some people feinted (perhaps they fell a few feet to the ground and were unconscious for that reason?).
Their friends tried to get them out of the crowds to get medical attention.

Then some people fell in the exit tunnel below the grandstand area, perhaps these were the ones who had feinted, falling into the tunnel, or were other people?
It is not clear if the grandstand collapse caused the first people to fall in the exit tunnel.
Others fell on them and so on, also falling on some steep steps near the tunnel.

One story of heroism has emerged, of a particularly strong man who somehow managed to hold back part of the crowd to make space for others.

There are allegations that the police (at first) did not help, and viewed things as crowd disorder rather than an urgent crisis.
I am loathe to blanket blame them as a force, as once the scale of the disaster became realised then they did disperse the crowds and prevent more people entering the area.
The speed of the fatal crush and chaos/confusion would have played their part.
But some police failings seem to have happened, and an investiagtion will show many lessons to be learned.

Similarities to Hillsborough - of an infrastructure not suited to the purpose it was being used for, of lack of immediate awareness amongst the police, of a crowded tunnel where extricating people would be hard, and of members of the public and emergency services doing their best against overwhelming odds.
I noticed another issue when looking at footage. Very few people were wearing masks and there was no social distancing. I know Israel has vaccinated most people, but maybe if they'd enforced the distancing, this may not have happened?
 
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WeeScottishLassie

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I noticed another issue when looking at footage. Very few people were wearing masks and there was no social distancing. I know Israel has vaccinated most people, but maybe if they'd enforced the distancing, this may not have happened?
I didn't see anyone wearing masks in the videos I saw but if social distancing had been in place then I'm sure it wouldn't have happened.

But sounds like it was a disaster waiting to happen unfortunately going by how people have felt about it in the past.
 

Victory

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I noticed another issue when looking at footage. Very few people were wearing masks and there was no social distancing. I know Israel has vaccinated most people, but maybe if they'd enforced the distancing, this may not have happened?

The law to wear masks outdoors in public in Israel was ended last Sunday.

The latest figures from a week ago saw 1,430 confirmed Covid cases out of a population of 9 million, with 13 new cases diagnosed last Saturday.

The event was given a nominal attendance limit of 10,000 for Covid reasons, but around 100,000 attended.
In the past up to 500,000 can attend over 24 hours.
 
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