• Server Outage Announcement

    Hello, Everyone.
    We will be installing an update to XenForo (the forums software), and doing some server maintenance.
    Consequently, the forums will be unavailable from about 12 - 2 MDT / 2 - 4 EDT / 6 - 8 GMT on Sunday 9th May 2021.

Rendlesham Forest Incident

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,674
Reaction score
1,895
Points
184
And here it is
One of my last gigs I went to before I left Nottingham was to see Thom Dolby for this very occasion. Good music, entertaining and informative information given and a bloody good Q & A session during it!
I wore my self-made "A Map of The Floating City" t-shirt and he actually pointed at it and smiled!
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
Really? you could resist? I mean - deep in the woods, get those lights flashing, pass the drugs around...unce! unce! unce! unce!

View attachment 38678
I have been re-reading, 'Skycrash' and duly noted the following:

Brenda Butler and her boyfriend had become friends with someone who was a security officer at RAF Woodbridge.

In the book, he is given the pseudonym of Steve Roberts.

The extract reads:

"He also spoke of strange goings on, involving parties in the forest and drug taking. These supposedly occured on New Year's Eve and Steve was involved in the arresting and charging of some of those involved in the fracas".
(End)

As revealed elsewhere, had a direct involvement with some, conceivably related drug participation (blush), possibly involving Larry Warren and his mates.

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/the-music-thread.23977/post-1995723

There is a reference in, 'Skycrash' of something else involving Mr Roberts.

Allegedly:

"...at the start of January 1981, when Steve came to Brenda with an incredible story. He too her that a UFO had crashed in Rendlesham Forest.

(...)

Steve Roberts said that tge event had occurred just six nights before, on 27 December. The UFO had suffered some kind of malfunction and had come down among the trees.

He had been on security patrol at the time and had been called out into the forest to confront it.

Here he had witnessed an astonishing meeting between the Base and some small alien creatures piloting the craft".

So, who was Steve Roberts?

There's some further background information here:

http://ufowaves.org/rendlesham/Rend...ncident.co.uk/forum/viewtopicc0dd.html?p=6989

It has now come to mind whether I may have had a, 'UFO' experience', after the Knebworth concert - see link.

I can only finally recall missing the last train back to London, then there's a period of missing time, then next thing I remember is it being daylight and I lying underneath a tree...
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
22,130
Reaction score
31,964
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
There is a reference in, 'Skycrash' of something else involving Mr Roberts.
Allegedly:
"...at the start of January 1981, when Steve came to Brenda with an incredible story. He too her that a UFO had crashed in Rendlesham Forest.
(...)
Steve Roberts said that tge event had occurred just six nights before, on 27 December. The UFO had suffered some kind of malfunction and had come down among the trees.
He had been on security patrol at the time and had been called out into the forest to confront it.
Here he had witnessed an astonishing meeting between the Base and some small alien creatures piloting the craft".
For the record ... The excerpted text about 'Steve Roberts' posted at the link you provided:

Clarifies that he first told this story on 2 January - thus verifying the alleged crash date as 27 December. This shifts attention to the second incident of hunting something in the woods and doesn't have any bearing on the first (26 December) night's incident.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
22,130
Reaction score
31,964
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
This sketch is also in the MoD files and I note a conceivable comparison:
( ... )
View attachment 38675
Stop ... Back up ...

What - if anything - have you concluded about the source for this sketch? You've abandoned this subject and moved on to other tangents topics, but I want to know where the mystery of this sketch stands.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
Burroughs claims that during December 29-31st he was posted to east gate between the hours of 1500-2300 [he notes that east gate
normally closed at 1800 on week days and closed all weekend].

Some unidentified personnel remained out in the 'landing site' vicinity for three days.

They were supported by helicopters.

Asked if he knew what their purpose was, Burroughs replied that he wasn't informed, however, both his Shift Commander and Flight Chief told him not to call anything in, no matter what he observed.
Anyone for fresh intrigue!

I have now come across a couple of further contributions.

Firstly, a long-forgotten, further detail from correspondence with John Burroughs (with permission to share):

"I was even posted on the east gate for 3 days from 1500-2300 while helicopters and personnel were out in the area. I was told not to call anything in no matter what I saw. The reason I was put out there was because I had been involved in the incident".

Secondly, just unearthed and from one of Penniston's in-depth interviews (there were two of them) with Salley Rayl:

PENNISTON: During the first week in January, about a week or so later, we had a pass-on that was given at guard mount to brief our people to ignore any type of activity that was going to be happening on the perimeter Woodbridge.

Apparently, or at least as we were told, there was a special team that was going to be out there doing some electronics work.

They weren't wearing uniforms but civilian clothes.

Now it was perfectly normal to receive pass-ons, but this situation was different because these guys weren't wearing military uniforms.

[...]

...probably within 10 to 15 days there was unusual air movement of transports coming in... there were six of 'em that came in and we were told, briefed, at our guard mounts, that there were going to be civilians operating over at Woodbridge Base, over by the east gate and we were supposed to give them a clear berth while, while they were over there.

RAYL: Where were they exactly? And what were they doing?

[...]

PENNISTON: They were at the east gate area and the actual landing site adjacent to that.

RAYL: So, they were in the area of the landing site?

PENNISTON: Absolutely.
(End)


For the moment, taking this at face value, do we conceivably had a connection, albeit maybe tentative?

Trusting, 'fair use' applies re copyright, for this brief reference:

IMG_20210430_223141~4.jpg


IMG_20210430_223226~2.jpg



These are related photographs I took in 1998:

lights.jpg


lights$.jpg
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
Working on something right now though...
It seems that both sketches did indeed originate from that OMNI magazine article.

In the MoD file, my letter is followed by my transcripts of the OMNI articles, featuring interviews with both Halt and Penniston:

Screenshot_20210430-233230.jpg



Screenshot_20210430-233636.jpg


This would perhaps explain why an online copy of the, 'intermediate' sketch traces back to there.

In essence, I picked up on the potential importance of it and was the only person to scan a copy and put it online?

The images of each sketch shows my then web site address at the top and I have obviously printed out both direct from there.

Interesting that in the interview, Penniston adds details about his notebook, which I have never seen mentioned elsewhere:

Screenshot_20210501-001359.jpg


What we need then, is a copy of the magazine to verify this and possibly obtain a better quality scan?

Although I certainly remember having copies of OMNI, I can't recall seeing them anywhere in my storage boxes for years.

One is off to have another sesrch!

It does look like this intriguing drawing is circa the time of his original statement - remnants of a map shown at the bottom are comparable with the sketches which did accompany his statement.

Why though, in those accompanying sketches, draw a 'box-like' object instead?

Unless...

Although I can in fact think of a reason, we still have this elemental problem of those original statements evidencing Penniston was never closer than 50 metres to the perceived object.

Unless...

I can also rationalise this from something he clarifies in this interview and from a comparable detail John Burroughs mentioned in our correspondence some 20 years ago.

In any research, always make absolutely certain you are not, 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'... :)
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
J. D. Ingalls
So, another curious character in our play!

This presumably the genesis or Warren and Bustinza's similar later tales, although the latter pinpoints Halt instead of the base commander.

I have recently detailed a breakdown of the various lights, as observed in sequence (or so near as possible) documented in the statements.

Essentially, this was to help with my own understanding.

However, what would you rationalise as a possible explanation nowadays?

Anything stand out as a significant clue?

Personally, I still consider Burroughs' description of that white light 'coming down the east gate road' early on, is indicative of a vehicle (headlights) being involved?
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
I'm not sure where mine is mate. If I can dig it out then I'm happy to send it to you.
That's so kind of you, thanks!

I shall, however, require to purchase a copy for reference as need be.

The very existence of said book reminds of my closings remarks on a comparative thread:

https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ounters-newspaper-articles.65811/post-1866324

Half the reason I stick with ufology and particularly this case, are the Fortean tangents which materialise and sometimes just crack you up! :p

(Which reminds, I have to enquire how to maybe change my user name to, 'Shug Monkey').
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
There's some fascinating correspondence in the MoD case archives.

Couldn't help notice this one from Ian Ridpath, demonstrating his Astronomical expertise...

IMG_20210501_020155~3_resize_54.jpg
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
So not a prime witness
Thanks... someone who apparently is now confirmed as a witness though...

Just discovered this in old correspondence from John Burroughs re the second episode:

"I was with Bustinza...".

Still going over Bustinza's seemingly crazy account as related in the transcript of his telephone conversation with Larry Fawcett.

I keep coming back to this question of whether there was a separate observation outwith Halt's own experience.

It seems related to those on the periphery and what they perceived was occurring.

It might explain the issues highlighted in my posts #1,023 and #1,024.

The evidence in this particular tangent... it's like that old arcade game where the little critters pop-up and you have to keep bashing then down, yet there's always another one pops up!

At least if this tangent never makes sense, one shall endeavour to clarify the exact questions remaining.

Might be a long list, methinks...
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
What we need then, is a copy of the magazine to verify this and possibly obtain a better quality scan?
It looks like this is the publication.

Don't suppose anyone has a copy?

If not, there are a couple available for sale online and I'll get a hold of one.

81aBtxcthZL._AC_SL1500_~2_resize_71.jpg
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
bizarre flying triangle hovered almost silently above the tiny hamlet of Hollesley in Suffolk for 20 minutes.

[...]

Captain Kathreen McCullom, at the airbase, said: 'Nothing was seen on radar. I cannot say more than that'."
(End)

It would be interesting to see any other original newspaper reports.
There's more details here, plus an intriguing (unrelated), 'missing time' anecdote!

Weird Suffolk: Hollesley - the UFO hotspot

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/stories-of-ufo-s-in-hollesley-2447200
 

Carl Grove

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1,440
Points
159
Location
Bury St Edmunds
There's more details here, plus an intriguing (unrelated), 'missing time' anecdote!

Weird Suffolk: Hollesley - the UFO hotspot

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/stories-of-ufo-s-in-hollesley-2447200
This is getting very interesting -- another triangle report. I have been trying to figure out why a triangular shape would be used for whatever propulsion system they employ. Since they don't seemingly get lift from wings the only idea that comes to mind is that the three sharp angles are used to dispell excess static electricity that the system generates. Maybe someone with specialised knowledge could comment on that? The other puzzle is why the reports of triangles in the early 80s seem to centre on the Suffolk area. Were they actually being manufactured here rather than in the US? Still doesn't explain the Belgian wave -- unless the real UFO phenomenon cottoned on to the new design and copied it, as seemed to be the case in 1909 -- but maybe the huge triangles reported after that in the US were too big to be made abroad. If those are anything like as large as witnesses claim, their manufacturing facility must also be huge.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
This is getting very interesting -- another triangle report...
Outwith this thread, I have contributed to the, 'Triangular UFO' thread, noting:

"Back in the day, I obtained permission from the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), to extract from their database, any reports which seemed to potentially be connected re, 'Triangular UFOs'.

The stated intention was to analyse them and determine any corroborative evidence, for publication.

Whilst that never materialised, I still have all those reports on file.

Predominantly dating from the late 1990s, there are quite a few of them...

Around 200, it looks like".

Outwith that, I actually have another 192 on file, from the 1980s era..

The point being, these reports go back some years and others I have date from the 1970s.

They are of particular interest, as often being relatively close observations, frequently at low altitude, or 'overhead'.

Crucially important, is that in the vast majority of cases we can entirely rule out stars, other atmospheric phenomena, or such as microlights being responsible.

Given that the accounts predominantly originate from populated areas, they make little sense as, 'black project' aircraft, or indeed anything else.

A connection with our case...?

Zero evidence whatsoever.

Shall leave it that, rather than lose focus on this thread...

...however, I did notice in the MoD files, someone has filed a copy of the following newspaper article..

Screenshot_20210501-022934.jpg
 

Carl Grove

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1,440
Points
159
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Outwith this thread, I have contributed to the, 'Triangular UFO' thread, noting:

"Back in the day, I obtained permission from the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), to extract from their database, any reports which seemed to potentially be connected re, 'Triangular UFOs'.

The stated intention was to analyse them and determine any corroborative evidence, for publication.

Whilst that never materialised, I still have all those reports on file.

Predominantly dating from the late 1990s, there are quite a few of them...

Around 200, it looks like".

Outwith that, I actually have another 192 on file, from the 1980s era..

The point being, these reports go back some years and others I have date from the 1970s.

They are of particular interest, as often being relatively close observations, frequently at low altitude, or 'overhead'.

Crucially important, is that in the vast majority of cases we can entirely rule out stars, other atmospheric phenomena, or such as microlights being responsible.

Given that the accounts predominantly originate from populated areas, they make little sense as, 'black project' aircraft, or indeed anything else.

A connection with our case...?

Zero evidence whatsoever.

Shall leave it that, rather than lose focus on this thread...

...however, I did notice in the MoD files, someone has filed a copy of the following newspaper article..

View attachment 38790
Zero connection with our case? Well, if the initial "crash" report of something diving into the forest -- Garry Collins' just before midnight on Christmas night -- described a 30' triangular object, I would say it has a very strong connection. And it is interesting how the Penniston account gradually developed into a smallish triangular object, because if Penniston had been subject to mind control and was saying what the disinformers wanted him to say, that implies that he was intended to link the idea of triangles firmly with UFOs, thus ensuring that anyone else seeing triangle shaped craft would assume an extraterrestrial origin.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
Zero connection with our case? Well, if the initial "crash" report of something diving into the forest -- Garry Collins' just before midnight on Christmas night...
I would like to see the account of this, which I can't locate at present.

If anyone might please assist...?
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
22,130
Reaction score
31,964
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
I would like to see the account of this, which I can't locate at present.
If anyone might please assist...?
Here's a summary of the times Collins has been mentioned in this thread.

Collins' sighting of an object overhead with a triangular bottom area visible (circa 2330; date not specified). The object took off quickly and "seemed to crash into the forest."
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/rendlesham-forest-incident.1914/post-2057238

Carl Grove's timeline places this incident on the night of 25 - 26 December
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/rendlesham-forest-incident.1914/post-2062086

Carl Grove alludes to Collins seeing a craft "go down"
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/rendlesham-forest-incident.1914/post-2062937

Carl Grove mentions Collins in terms of seeing something aloft (no mention of its 'going down')
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/rendlesham-forest-incident.1914/post-2063649

Carl Grove once again characterizes Collins' experience as seeing something "diving into the forest"
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/rendlesham-forest-incident.1914/post-2064995
Carl attributes the Collins account to Bruni, who seems to have been the writer who first received his account of events.

According to Bruni's book:

Collins was drinking at the Swan pub in Alderton with four American friends who were called away at an unspecified time. They were all paged and Collins claimed they left immediately in response to a "Red Alert." Collins remained at the pub "until closing time" and then headed home on his motorcycle. His sighting occurred at circa 2330 in the vicinity of Capel Green.

The landmark cited is a sharp bend in the road called Lion's Corner. I can't find any reference to this name, and there are multiple bends or turns that might be the place cited. Bruni wrote that Collins lived at Capel St Andrew, but it's unclear whether that's where he was living with his mother in December 1980. It would be interesting to know where he lived as of the time of the incident, because Capel Green wouldn't necessarily be on his way home from Alderton.

Bruni's book is accessible at:

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Ge...eople - The Cover-Up of Britain's Roswell.pdf
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
We have 3 seperate accounts, from Warren, Bustinza and Battram, of an object amidst ground fog.

Did that never actually occur?
Having gone over Battram's account again, I came across correspondence from some years back with Airman Kenneth Green:

(Beginning of correspondence)
My problem; there is a testimony which refers to the 'UFO' incidents occurring during an alert/exercise.

It's the published account of Airman Greg Battram, interviewed by Larry Fawcett.

GB: I was in the Air Force up to this point a little over a year. I had been in England about two months.

LF: OK, you were stationed at Bentwaters or Woodbridge?

GB: At Bentwaters.

LF: Were you attached to the Eighty-first Police Security Squadron?

GB: Yes.

LF: What was your job there, Greg?

GB: I was in the planning and program section.

LF: Go ahead.

GB: We had an alert over there for exercises and things about once or twice a month. And during those times, all the back-office people would go on a security post, additional posting and stuff out there. So, the night we saw the UFO, we were out there on duty, on one of these exercises, and it was nighttime.

Nothing going on but we all still had to be there, and we were driving around on Woodbridge base on a perimeter patrol, and we saw some lights up in the sky, and it looked a lot different from any other aircraft we had ever seen.

We watched them for a while and then they disappeared... in a clearing of a forest and that's when we saw the object or whatever. We thought it was a fire at first.

[NOTE: The original transcript reads: "We watched them for a while and then they disappeared. A short distance from where they disappeared is a clearing and a forest and that's when we saw the object or whatever. We thought it was a fire at first".]

When we saw that, we thought, oh boy, we could have some problems out here, so we called Central Security Control and told them we wanted to go out and see what it was.

They said go ahead and they would notify the base fire department and the British authorities. So we took off out the back gate, there at Woodbridge, and headed toward the forest.

LF: Who was with you, Greg?

GB: I can't remember the names of those guys. Three other guys in the truck.

LF: OK.

GB: We got out there and parked the truck on the side of the road and went walking in toward the clearing. Just as we got about fifty yards away, we started to feel the hair on our necks and arms and stuff stand up.

LF: Yes.

GB: And it felt really strange. And we could hear a thrumming kind of sound.

LF: A what kind of sound?

GB: A thrumming noise coming out of the forest, from the direction of that object. It had a ground fog all around it.

LF: OK.

GB: We couldn't really see a distinct shape, but there were alternating colors in it and the whole bit. It was really strange. The closer we got, the worse the static electricity feeling got, and we just said, 'Fuck', and we turned around and took off.

[...]

[END OF TRANSCRIPT EXTRACT]


If, as Battram relates, the 'second' incident happened during a training exercise, it's a significantly different context.

From my reading, Battram was one of those 'back-office people', in the 'planning and program section'. He was only on patrol duties because an exercise was taking place.

Battram adds:

"Then we went back to the perimeter of Woodbridge and stuck around there. We could see some activity over there but that was it. And then we got off at the other end of the base there and got involved with exercises and horsing around and stuff.

Never did see any more from that point on. The next day was when we heard all the silly stories and stuff. Oh! Sounds like ---- city!".
[END OF TRANSCRIPT EXTRACT]


He further recollects:

LF: And this incident was in December, right?

GB: Yes.

LF: OK.

GB: It seemed like a week before New Year's. Something like that, it seemed real close to it.

LF: Were there any other sightings after that, Greg, that you heard of?

GB: The stories went on for a while like they did before that night. We heard a lot of stories about people seeing lights at night and strange things. We thought they were all on dope.

LF: Yes.

GB: That's why it was strange that night, because it was the second night we had been out on this alert. I had thought the night before, now I get to see if these guys are really high or if they're really seeing something. The night it happened, it was like - Holy shit! there must be something in the water.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT EXTRACT]


If, "the second night we had been out on this alert", does that imply the "alert" was something specific?

Three nights earlier, the inaugural 'UFO' incident had occurred.
(End of my correspondence)


This brings us back to the question of what initiated the second night's events and my post #1,023.

Is this related and does it explain Bustinza's account (and Warren's) of a, 'UFO in ground fog' that second night (leaving aside their respective story of Halt conversing with object's occupants!).

If the second night's adventures did actually occur during a base exercise (although that would seem unlikely during the Christmas holiday period), then it brings Kevin Conde's hoax aspect back into the frame.

Although initially recalling this occured, "just after Christmas", Kevin subsequently had doubts because he remembered it occuring during an exercise.

If Battram's story is taken as, 'conceivable', then do we have another sighting of, 'unfamiliar lights' descending into the forest, at the outset of our second incident?

In essence, this would appear to be the only testimony we have re the onset of events resulting in Lt. Bruce Englund alerting Halt of a, 'return visitation'?
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
7,564
Reaction score
12,089
Points
279
Location
Phone
Here's a summary of the times Collins has been mentioned in this thread.

Carl attributes the Collins account to Bruni, who seems to have been the writer who first received his account of events.
Now I understand... which might well be a rarity in our discussions.

You are the fount of helpfulness.

We are incredibly fortunate being able to discuss this case and other eclectic matters, plus a good old chat with brilliant laughs, within an online environment which is seamless.

That acknowledged, can I please go back to being plain old, 'Comfortably Numb'.

Firstly, with name change, I am confused (doesn't help that it's my birthday today and the kids tell me I'm now 63...) when I try to search for my old postings.

Secondly, the change hasn't gone unnoticed and with our Shug Monkey allegedly being, 'the combination of an ape, a dog, a bear, a lion and a rhinoceros', I am receiving a number of PMs with a 'friends request', for some reason predominantly from folks in Cromer.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
3,835
Reaction score
9,798
Points
219
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
can I please go back...etc
Weren't you told? You only get one 'free' change of your 'Nom De Plume' in here!
Further changes require a deposit of SKK 500 (Slovak Koruna), a photograph of yourself holding the most recent issue of 'The Yorkshire Evening Post' (for ID purposes), and for you to submit a list of at least 7 reasons justifying your request.
 
Top