Rendlesham Forest Incident

[Carl Grove]

You can't modify memories that accurately and reliably. This is a myth.

Obviously the modern equivalents of MKUltra have no doubt developed methods that we don't know about, and one can only guess, but even the early experimentation does make it plain that with good subjects and suitable drugs one can implant false memories. In this case, even if the implanted memories get distorted, they would fulfill the aim of putting over the "ET encounter". It hasn't put ET believers off that Penniston and Burroughs have come up with slightly different versions over the years, has it?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Penniston did not recognise the object's black glass-like, opaque surface.

However, by comparison we know the, Teledyne Ryan Model 262 Manta' was made from fibreglass - which can be manufactured as opaque (although whether in 1980, I'm not yet sure).

There's another photograph of the drone, which would seem to indicate a smooth, polished, glass-like finish.

Image this in black...

This remains a speculative exercise, the Manta drone experiment apparently ceased in the late 1970s and had no VTOL capabilities.

Whether it was superceded by something more advanced, remains an unknown at present.

Which is why I have taken the subject to a couple of user forums for military drone historians and we shall see what transpires.

 

[Carl Grove]

Penniston did not recognise the object's black glass-like, opaque surface.

However, by comparison we know the, Teledyne Ryan Model 262 Manta' was made from fibreglass - which can be manufactured as opaque (although whether in 1980, I'm not yet sure).

There's another photograph of the drone, which would seem to indicate a smooth, polished, glass-like finish.

View attachment 38969

Image this in black...

This remains a speculative exercise, the Manta drone experiment apparently ceased in the late 1970s and had no VTOL capabilities.

Whether it was superceded by something more advanced, remains an unknown at present.

Which is why I have taken the subject to a couple of user forums for military drone historians and we shall see what transpires.

This is fascinating, I never realised that so many of these early drones were triangular.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

This is fascinating, I never realised that so many of these early drones were triangular.

This might actually be the only one which was that early.

How about this film of our Manta drone in flight - from 1974!

 

[eburacum]

A barely controlled model airplane. This could not have flown for more than ten seconds in a forest without crashing.

Nothing like the hovering object Penniston descibed; in fact he never said it rose above the trees, so it was probably a ground-based vehicle. There were no reliable hovering drones available in 1980, and nothing as big as a car or tractor. So a car or tractor looks increasingly likely.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Merely for interest and because it looks intriguing.
The Westland Wideye (UK), dates from 1977 and llustrates the interest in developing VTOL spy drones even at that date.

The later (1978 / 1979?) Westland Wisp is a better fit, and it was a far more capable VTOL drone. However, Westland's R&D contract and project work were terminated around the end of 1979. It's not clear what may have become of the Westland prototypes during the 1980 timeframe. None of the Westland prototypes were known to be capable of night operations.

The far more capable ML Aviation Sprite (which did eventually make it into real world usage) resulted from a follow-on VTOL drone project that got underway in 1980 or 1981 (most sources say 1981). The MLA folks had access to, and analyzed, at least some of the Westland prototypes.

 

[Carl Grove]

This might actually be the only one which was that early.

How about this film of our Manta drone in flight - from 1974!

Fascinating. Reminds me strangely of those videos of Vulcan bombers taking off sedately then launching into a screaming vertical climb! If they were experimenting with other triangular drones in that period it might explain a few UFO sightings, I suppose.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The far more capable ML Aviation Sprite (which did eventually make it into real world usage) resulted from a follow-on VTOL drone project that got underway in 1980 or 1981 (most sources say 1981).

Most interesting, thank you. For general information, this is a brief article from the, 'New Scientist" on 28 October, 1982:

 

[Comfortably Numb]

...a deception operation designed to focus attention away from the genuine crash site...

(...)

There is a huge mismatch, for example, between the appearance of the object in a brilliant flash of light...

There was no explosion of light, or anything similar, pre appearance.

From distance, Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston could observe the flashing red and blue lights amidst the apparent glare from a white light. It was only when they reached closer that Penniston claims to have actually seen end encountered our relatively small, drone-like object.

See my post #1,042, for more details.

As for the, 'real' site, there was no other such claimed landing site our first night - that's the only UFO we have.

The third night has no reference to anything, 'landing' related either, within Halt's recording and not likely he would have missed it!

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Nothing like the hovering object Penniston descibed; in fact he never said it rose above the trees...

"It took about a couple of minutes for it to manoeuvre itself back to a distance of about 100 to 150 feet, then it rose up just over the trees, about 200 feet high...".

See my post #1,134
(End)

 

[Comfortably Numb]

A barely controlled model airplane. This could not have flown for more than ten seconds in a forest without crashing.

As emphasised, no suggestion the Teledyne Ryan Manta was actually involved:

"This remains a speculative exercise, the Manta drone experiment apparently ceased in the late 1970s and had no VTOL capabilities.

Whether it was superceded by something more advanced, remains an unknown at present".

The entire point is that from Penniston's own descriptions, it seems evident there is nothing either in the object's appearance, its materials, or its flight characteristics, which were not either existing or developing earthy technology (VTOL drones) in December 1980.

His perceptions of this unknown object and the unfamiliar array of lights it displayed is the genesis of all which followed.

There was nothing unwordly to begin with and elementally unlikely anything which consequently resulted, when Lt. Col. Halt was informed that, 'the UFO is back'.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The later (1978 / 1979?) Westland Wisp is a better fit, and it was a far more capable VTOL drone.

There's a remarkable circa 1975 video of the Westland Wisp, demonstrating a perfectly capable mid-70s VTOL drone, flying in England.

"The year after Midge came into service, Westland Helicopters began concept development work on a small unmanned rotary craft. By 1975, this initial concept and wind tunnel work had progressed to the development of an aerial test bed called Mote. Also in development during the same period was the Shorts Skyspy and Canadair CL-227, all small, unmanned and rotary. After Mote, Westland Helicopters developed the Wisp".

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/watchkeeper-tactical-unmanned-aerial-system-tuas/history/

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Lastly on this aspect, some further, related, online material which may be of interest:

1976 Teledyne Ryan UAV Drone RPV Model 262 Manta Ray

Chainsaw engine. TV and radar. Internal guidance with remote pilot corrections. Carrier surveillance drone program. Believed to be the scale prototype of a larger manned version called TR-3B, Black Ray.

They received a patent for a larger twin engine version. They were then bought out by Northrop Grumman.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/1970andapos_s_UAV_Drones__Teledyne_Ryan/5-1969740/


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7018.msg97582.html#msg97582

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/ryanmodel262mantaray/page2/


Manta VTOL Unmanned Aerial Vehicle

A vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) variant of the Manta unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was unveiled at the 23rd International Defence Industry Exhibition (MSPO) held in Kielce, Poland, in September 2015.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/manta-vtol-unmanned-aerial-vehicle/

 

[eburacum]

"It took about a couple of minutes for it to manoeuvre itself back to a distance of about 100 to 150 feet, then it rose up just over the trees, about 200 feet high...".

See my post #1,134
(End)

Thanks!
Note that Penniston claims that Burroughs was standing next to him at this point, but Burroughs does not mention this soaring flight. Neither does Penniston in his original written account. There he says 'It moved in a zig-zagging manner back through the wood then lost sight of it."
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/Penniston1.PNG

 

[eburacum]

Obviously the modern equivalents of MKUltra have no doubt developed methods that we don't know about, and one can only guess, but even the early experimentation does make it plain that with good subjects and suitable drugs one can implant false memories.

Yes; false and misleading memories can be formed as a result of this sort of abuse; but the experimenters have no useful control over the content of these memories, and for that reason the techniques have been largely abandoned. They are still used as a form of psychological torture, though.

 

[Carl Grove]

Yes; false and misleading memories can be formed as a result of this sort of abuse; but the experimenters have no useful control over the content of these memories, and for that reason the techniques have been largely abandoned. They are still used as a form of psychological torture, though.

I wish I could believe that such techniques have been abandoned, but I very much doubt it!

 

[Carl Grove]

There was no explosion of light, or anything similar, pre appearance.

From distance, Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston could observe the flashing red and blue lights amidst the apparent glare from a white light. It was only when they reached closer that Penniston claims to have actually seen end encountered our relatively small, drone-like object.

See my post #1,042, for more details.

As for the, 'real' site, there was no other such claimed landing site our first night - that's the only UFO we have.

The third night has no reference to anything, 'landing' related either, within Halt's recording and not likely he would have missed it!

The most recent version of Penniston's story is in Nick Pope, and there it describes a glow in the clearing turning into a huge explosion of light and the machine appearing as the light faded.

 

[Ian Ridpath]

The most recent version of Penniston's story is in Nick Pope, and there it describes a glow in the clearing turning into a huge explosion of light and the machine appearing as the light faded.

You don't need mind control when you are dealing with an arch fantasist such as Penniston. He implants his own false and misleading memories.

 

[Carl Grove]

You don't need mind control when you are dealing with an arch fantasist such as Penniston. He implants his own false and misleading memories.

Well, I would like to know if there is any evidence of fantasy proneness in Penniston prior to the affair at Rendlesham. If there is -- fair point. If not, it is just an assumption.

 

[Trevp666]

I'm not too sure about the naming of these drone things.
I mean come on.....the 'Unmanned Drone ANUSD-501' (from the watchkeeper-tactical-unmanned-aerial-system link) sounds like a bit of a bum steer.
And the 'flying peanut'? I'm not sure who'd shell out for one of those.
Spectator and Observer.....must have been sponsored by newspaper companies I guess.

 

[RaM]

Friend of mine had a kids push scooter powered by a ex military drone pulse jet engine,
used to have to tie it down to run it and the noise was indescribable, most of the
engine glowed red hot, we had permission to test it at a local airfield but common sense
prevailed.

 

[Carl Grove]

Friend of mine had a kids push scooter powered by a ex military drone pulse jet engine,
used to have to tie it down to run it and the noise was indescribable, most of the
engine glowed red hot, we had permission to test it at a local airfield but common sense
prevailed.

Might never have seen the children again..

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Burroughs does not mention this soaring flight...

Correct in that I believe there was no published confirmation of same from Burroughs.

However, there is now - from the recently rediscovered and long- correspondence with Burroughs, some 20 years ago, I am still working through:

"As far as Penniston goes from the moment it happened he stated to both Cabansag and I that he thought that it was a structed craft not just lights. One of the first thing's he stated after the lights lifted off and went up into the air and disapeared is we just saw a UFO".

"As far as the lighthouse goes the statement's that everybody made such a big deal about ...and if you stop and think about it nobody asked us if we ever followed the lighthouse beam. What I mean by that is we did follow a light not knowing what it was but we at no time did we feel that it was the object we first saw. We had lost contact with the object we first saw and wanted to see what the flasing light in the distance was".

Burroughs has always remained clear that he never observed a structured object, only lights which indicated one must be present.

The sole description we have of an actual aerial vehicle is Penniston's and there are three entirely different sketches of it - the original merely being the box-like drawing which accompanied his formal testimony.

Also, of course, in that testimony and backed up by Chandler's, is the fact Penniston reported over the radio how he was never closer than 50 metres to the object.

Burroughs does not support Penniston's claims of actually examining it at close proximity.

Ultimately, we simply don't know, however it's perfectly clear Penniston had decided from the outset that this 'UFO' with flashing lights was not of terrestrial origin, as he related in 1997 interview with AJS Rayl:

"The technology I felt was too advanced.. I still do to this day.. to be created by our government or a foreign government.

...it's not of any known aircraft that I've ever observed or to date, what I've read about in any technical journal or anything like that".

RAYL: Okay. You've obviously thought about this a lot since it happened. Any ideas at this point what it might have been?

PENNISTON: Honestly, Salley, I have no idea as far as anything.. it's not of any known aircraft that I've ever observed or to date, what I've read about in any technical journal or anything like that.

RAYL: What will it take for your to close the book on this now?

PENNISTON: U.S. government to say what we had that night was of unknown origin. We cannot explain it and that's good enough for me.
(End)


As I believe has now been comprehensively evidenced, there was no basis for anything, 'unworldly'' whatsoever.

That's the foundation for all which followed.

 

[eburacum]

Interesting idea that the blue flashes of light seen by Burroughs and others might have been a police car, presumably with the lights on and the bells or sirens off.

I'm unclear on Burroughs' role on the third night, the one when Halt made his tape. He wasn't heard on the tape, so I suggest he wasn't anywhere near Halt at that time.

 

[Analogue Boy]

And the shaggy dog continues to chase its own tail.

 

[Ian Ridpath]

Interesting idea that the blue flashes of light seen by Burroughs and others might have been a police car, presumably with the lights on and the bells or sirens off.
I'm unclear on Burroughs' role on the third night, the one when Halt made his tape. He wasn't heard on the tape, so I suggest he wasn't anywhere near Halt at that time.

Blue flashes: Central Security Control (CSC) called local police who turned up while Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansag were off on their lighthouse chase. So the blue lights P, B, and C saw on the way back might well have been the lights on a police car.
It was the police log that established the correct date of the incident.

The Suffolk police file was released under FoI quite some time ago and can be read here
https://www.suffolk.police.uk/sites/suffolk/files/unusual_lights.pdf
They said it was only the lighthouse, but no one told Halt!

The police were called out again the following morning to see the supposed landing marks, and their report on that is in the same file. Strange sort of cover-up that calls out the local bobbies, twice...

My own page on the police response is here
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/police.html

Burroughs had no official role on the second night, but it seems he might have sneaked in. There is a snatch of security communication on Halt's tape which sounds as though he and two others were asking to come out to join the party, but were firmly told No. However, there is a sound of a vehicle arriving some time later, so it seems they went out anyway. See the early part of the transcript on this page
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/halttape2.html

 

[Comfortably Numb]

There is a snatch of security communication on Halt's tape which sounds as though he and two others were asking to come out to join the party, but were firmly told No.

Absolutely, Burroughs actually mentioned this in correspondence:

"Listen to Halts tape you will hear a radio transmission telling Ball that myself and 2 other personal are not to go to their location".

"Bustinza was with me...".


My correspondence with Burroughs discussed events which subsequently transpired that second night and I shall address this in due course.

Meantime, on the pivotal issue of whether anyone else had witnessed the, 'beams of light', documented by Halt on his recording, I asked John Burroughs about this and it separately forms the first in a sequence of public announcements concerning previously unpublished case evidence.

This has only now been recovered from archives of lengthy correspondence, circa 1999, with John Burroughs and was long believed to have been lost.

It has never previously been publicly revealed.

The first extract will follow.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The first extract will follow.

It would seem practical to break this down into three specific aspects:

1. The Beams of Light.

2. The Other Second Night's Encounter.

3. The Halt WSA Revelations.

Parts 2 and 3 as time permits.

Therein, I am merely a collector and distributor of data.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The Beams of Light

During our correspondence in 1999, I asked John Burroughs a straightforward question, with no mention of a Weapons Storage Areas (WSA):

"Did you ever observe the 'beams of light' yourself"?

He replied:

"Yes I was there when that happened
there also were beams of lights being sent into the WSA at Bentwaters".


Although I did not once raise any questions about the, 'radio chatter', which Halt claims confirmed the latter, Burroughs wrote the following during various exchanges in our correspondence:

"Also there is a missing recording of all of the radio traffic that went on. That alone what blow this whole thing wide open".

"Trust me when I tell you the wing commander was listening to everything that was going on that night over the Radio and was getting briefed through the Command post, he was the Wing Commander and nothing happens with out his involvement.

And I say again I wish the tapes that were made of the radio traffic that night would surface they would show what happened over the storage area.

Trust me when I tell you this protocol was not followed inside the storage area when this happened. James, there things I can't talk about to this day because we have to sign a form before we depart a base like Bentwaters and I'm still in the Military".

"All you have to do is say UFO and people get very narrowed minded. I have never steered you wrong and now here is the key, look at what was possibly located at Bentwater's. I have never said or will ever say we were visted by aliens nor will I say we were not".

"The radio traffic was recorded through the command post that night and would open a huge can of worms".

(End of Part 1 of 3)

 

[Comfortably Numb]

The Other Second Night's Encounter

For the background perspective, please see my post #1,024, wherein regarding an aerial light, which seemingly approached Halt rapidly, I noted:

"If still perceived to be a loose end... I'm only... continually coming across further conceivable anomalies".

That was expressed recently, before now coming across the following, from John Burroughs:

"...he was standing by the light alls when one of the objects Halt and the LT who got him from the party pointed out to me in the Sky came at us went over our heads headed straight at the light-alls...the object went through the truck (its open window - James)...".

In our rediscovered correspondence, Burroughs elaborated:

"James, all I can say for now is I and Bustinza were running towards it and Bustinza fell to the ground. He told me after words that he felt something push him down and then would not let him back up. I then felt like I was almost next to the object and all of a sudden I was out in the middle of the field by myself and I didn't know why. I could not account for about 15 min of time".

(End of Part 2 of 3)