Rewilding

[Druk]

Such culling is a reflection of a problem in individual localised conditions, not of a universal one - it's not a sign of failure

Beaver don't stay localised,they travel overland looking for new waters,I am in a city at the moment that spends about £100k a year trapping urban beaver,a few streets away from where I currently sit drinking tea and watching breakfast news a beaver dam has popped up in a storm drainage ditch.200 individual beaver shot in a recently reintroduced species shows there's a problem,it most certainly is a sign of failure.

 

[Ascalon]

And of course they know the rules,have read the memo and would stay in their designated areas and would stick to eating/attacking large herbivores right?
The UK is tiny,there's a reason apex preds were killed out.Theres nothing to gain by rewilding.

Right, well, with that reasoned and supported argument, the matter is settled.

Thanks!

 

[Kondoru]

You talk about remote areas; is that the same as No Broadband?

 

[Druk]

Right, well, with that reasoned and supported argument, the matter is settled.

Thanks!

There was a case in the city 3 or 4 years ago,popular beaver,very easy to see,people loved watching it cute fluffy little thing,BUT it caused flooding and flooded a road so the city beaver guy killed it,big outcry by the beaver brigade who conveniently forgot the problems it had caused.
I am standing on a two year old dam,they are certainly industrious but anyone who thinks they don't cause problems is a stranger to the truth.

 

[Druk]

You talk about remote areas; is that the same as No Broadband?

I know a bloke from Bristol who said the lake district was remote as he had a patchy mobile signal

 

[Kondoru]

Thats the trouble with Beavers; they alter the landscape to suit them.

 

[Spookdaddy]

Beaver don't stay localised,they travel overland looking for new waters,I am in a city at the moment that spends about £100k a year trapping urban beaver,a few streets away from where I currently sit drinking tea and watching breakfast news a beaver dam has popped up in a storm drainage ditch.200 individual beaver shot in a recently reintroduced species shows there's a problem,it most certainly is a sign of failure.

No they don't stay localised - and when they move on, and it causes issues, then culling is reasonable. Or you cull populations at the point where population pressure is likely to push towards unmanageable expansion.

There's always going to be management involved. And with management, cost.

...anyone who thinks they don't cause problems is a stranger to the truth.

I'd agree, but I can't help thinking that's a bit of a straw man. I'm not sure anyone believes that such projects are without potential consequence. There's just a big difference in how much weight some people put on the action, and how much on (some of) the consequences.

 

[Druk]

No they don't stay localised - and when they move on, and it causes issues, then culling is reasonable. Or you cull populations at the point where population pressure is likely to push towards unmanageable expansion.

There's always going to be management involved. And with management, cost.

I'd agree, but I can't help thinking that's a bit of a straw man. I'm not sure anyone believes that such projects are without potential consequence. There's just a big difference in how much weight some people put on the action,

So what's the point of rewilding,moreso with wolf and bear if beaver reintroduction is problematic,what are the benefits with large preds?

 

[Spookdaddy]

So what's the point of rewilding...

You're implying that it's an all or nothing choice - I'm not sure that's the case.

I believe the necessity for some sort of management, in certain circumstances, will always be a factor - I'm not sure that this is, in and of itself, an essential contradiction to the basic concept of rewilding.

 

[Druk]

You're implying that it's an all or nothing choice - I'm not sure that's the case.

I believe the necessity for some sort of management, in certain circumstances, will always be a factor - I'm not sure that this is, in and of itself, essentially contradictory to the basic concept of rewilding.

I am asking you to list the benefits,management means culling,if your going to have to cull why reintroduce in the first place?I am interested in the benefits to the UK?

 

[ramonmercado]

And of course they know the rules,have read the memo and would stay in their designated areas and would stick to eating/attacking large herbivores right?
The UK is tiny,there's a reason apex preds were killed out.Theres nothing to gain by rewilding.

The farming population needs to be culled.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I am asking you to list the benefits,management means culling,if your going to have to cull why reintroduce in the first place?I am interested in the benefits to the UK?

That's two questions mashed up into one.

I see no contradiction between re-establishing a population and - potentially - having to cull that population as part of a wider management process. A cull is a selective reduction, not an eradication. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If you do see a contradiction between those two things - as you clearly seem to - then I don't know what else to add.

That said, as far as the concept of rewilding goes, I'm really more interested in the idea of restoring woodland and other traditional landscapes, like marsh and peatland - the various benefits of which, in regard to things like soil/ground stabilisation and flood management are, I think, pretty clear.

 

[Druk]

I'm really more interested in the idea of restoring woodland and other traditional landscapes, like marsh and peatland - the various benefits of which, in regard to things like soil/ground stabilisation and flood management are, I think, pretty clear.

We are on about wolf and bear benefits for the UK.

 

[Spookdaddy]

We are on about wolf and bear benefits for the UK.

You are.

I've not mentioned wolves or bears. (I suspect somewhat of an impractical option anywhere in the UK.) Last thing I recall, we were actually talking about beavers. (And, again, I'm not saying the issue is without its problems.)

The thread's about rewilding. The concept is a broad one, involving different aspects.

I've pointed out the aspects I'm interested in.

I don't believe that the idea of rewilding is in general undermined simply because some of the particular ideas involved are undoubtedly problematic.

 

[Druk]

You are.

I've not mentioned wolves or bears. (I suspect somewhat of an impractical option anywhere in the UK.)

That's correct,I was,that's my interest,large predators and mammals,impractical and problematic,thank you spook,I am interested in your viewpoint.

 

[maximus otter]

Does the UK need beavers? It’s a Yes/No question, the obvious answer being “No.”

So the sentimental types, few/none of whom will live in the areas where they are to be reintroduced, will coo over the pictures; then adopt the usual “animal liberation” tactics - death threats, mailed allegations of paedophilia, attacking families’ social media - when culling becomes necessary because some peons’ ratepayers’ homes are submerged.

maximus otter

 

[hunck]

Let’s be honest - wolves are extremely unlikely to be reintroduced in the UK - bears never.

As for beavers, are there any examples of them causing havoc currently in the UK? OK, some have been shot in Scotland in recent years. I don’t see this as a reason not to have them in some areas in some circumstances. Flood reduction measures for example.

Canada is not comparable to the UK.

 

[Druk]

Let’s be honest - wolves are extremely unlikely to be reintroduced in the UK - bears never.

As for beavers, are there any examples of them causing havoc currently in the UK? OK, some have been shot in Scotland

A fifth of the Scottish population were shot,20% and they have only been rewinded a short time.Canada is comparable,beaver are beaver,a city is a city.

 

[Druk]

Let’s be honest - wolves are extremely unlikely to be reintroduced in the UK - bears never.

Neither have a place running free in modern day UK,it's never going to happen in reality.

 

[ramonmercado]

Neither have a place running free in modern day UK,it's never going to happen in reality.

Would result in good reality TV shows though with headcases who reckon they could take on a bear or a wolf in a fair fight.

 

[ramonmercado]

Boars dropping in for a beer, Vid at link.

A group of wild boar have been spotted wandering past a pub.

The footage was captured outside the Golden Lion in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, on 2 October.

Boar were hunted to extinction 700 years ago, but became established again in the Forest of Dean in the 1990s.

Forestry Commission wildlife rangers monitor numbers in the Forest of Dean each spring and carry out culls, if necessary, to keep the target population to about 400.

The boars have been known to go hunting for food in the local neighbourhoods when foraging becomes harder in the nearby forest.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm24e0v4g02o

 

[hunck]

A fifth of the Scottish population were shot,20% and they have only been rewinded a short time.Canada is comparable,beaver are beaver,a city is a city.

Canada is somewhat larger than the UK & has a huge beaver population. Not comparable in my view. I believe it also has bears.

 

[Druk]

Canada is somewhat larger than the UK & has a huge beaver population. Not comparable in my view. I believe it also has bears.

It has bears,it's got lots of bears,it's larger far larger but is sparsely populated yet still beaver are problematic,how much moreso in a tiny densely populated place like the uk.

 

[hunck]

It has bears,it's got lots of bears,it's larger far larger but is sparsely populated yet still beaver are problematic,how much moreso in a tiny densely populated place like the uk.

I’m still waiting for someone to produce examples of beavers causing havoc in the UK. They are never going to reach a population comparable to that of Canada.

 

[Druk]

I’m still waiting for someone to produce examples of beavers causing havoc in the UK. They are never going to reach a population comparable to that of Canada.

There's got to be a reason 20% of the population were shot I suspect?

 

[hunck]

There's got to be a reason 20% of the population were shot I suspect?

Where they cause issues they can be culled as is the case presently. Is that a reason to do away with all of them?

 

[Druk]

Where they cause issues they can be culled as is the case presently. Is that a reason to do away with all of them?

Was there a reason to cull 20% if they weren't causing problems?Not havoc as you said but causing problems?No problems=no cull so they were causing problems.

 

[hunck]

Was there a reason to cull 20% if they weren't causing problems?Not havoc as you said but causing problems?No problems=no cull so they were causing problems.

We're just going round in circles so I'll leave it there.

 

[catseye]

Thats the trouble with Beavers; they alter the landscape to suit them.

Beavers are cutting the broadband signals? I suppose it stops them spending money on rubbish from Temu and Shein...

 

[Frideswide]

Was there a reason to cull 20% if they weren't causing problems?Not havoc as you said but causing problems?No problems=no cull so they were causing problems.

It how a healthy system works isn't it? WE are their predators.