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road tax

Please note I didn't suggest that everyone drive as fast as they like. I said that cameras (and possibly even humps) by, before and after schools, hospitals and slow speeds in residential areas are fine by me. There is no way of telling you or what will jump out from behind parked cars etc. However, motorways are a different kettle of fish. Firslty, the driving test in this country is laughable (see Norway for a real toughie) and many people do not know how to control their cars well - regardless of what they might think. I think we should start a two tier road system. All 'normal' drivers, trucks and buses etc get to use the first two lanes on a motorway - and you can have your 70mph speed limit. The outer lane is used for those people who a) have fast, safe and new cars b) have taken a government mandated 'fast driver' test, which costs a premium (plus an affordable insurance hike) - yes one rule for the rich and another for the poor...good, lets not pretend that everyone is equal (because that is social constructivist nonsense). Moreover, I hate the fact that we are living in an era where transportation times are actually getting slower (cf the demise of concord and the proposals to drop motorway speeds). As I said, I would rather live in a more dangerous world of choice, than the near (liberal) totalitarian state we are now living in.
 
Gadaffi_Duck said:
Clearly, you don't drive as a petrol head. Firstly, for anyone with a real driving ability (and a car to match) 120 is nothing...I regularly cruise at that speed.

So your the kind of prat I spend my time scraping off of the motorways and main roads.

I can drive safely and responsibly at rather fast speeds, I have advanced Police driving skills under my belt and have driven at speeds in excess of 160mph, for anyone to think that driving at speeds of 120mph is not fast is ridiculous.

You should spend a day on the road with me and see all the innocent children that get scraped, yes scraped out of vehicles that have been compacted to the size of small go-carts by prats like you ploughing into them at ridiculous speeds.

Speeding is not a victimless crime, its on par with drink driving, would you consider driving while drunk?

On the note of speed camera's they DO NOT reduce the amount of accidents they just simple occur in different places.
 
Good points Gadaffi and while i agree in principal with some of your points the problem is you will alwaus have people who will break the law so no matter how many lanes or set ups you have some people just won't take any notice. Added to that if you have cars travelling at 120mph in an outside lane past slower lanes of traffic on the inside its a recipe for major road crashes if anything happens. It wont just be one or two cars in a 60 mph crash. Imagine something big and solid like a Mercedes or BMW loosing control at 120 to 130 mph with two lanes of slower cars on their inside...
 
Never had a drink and drive in my life...and never would. I have taught high speed and evasive driving courses and consider that 120mph is not that fast in the right conditions. Perhaps my anger and bravado have made you (rightly) misunderstand my position). I do not suggest driving and weaving between traffic at high speed, in fact the converse, but on empty motorways..no problems. I do not drive fast when roads are congested or when roads are even moderately full - thus my behaviour is not prattish - I only put myself at risk (and as I pay my taxes, if I get splatted, then I've paid for the clean up). Moreover, you should be happy as I am currently not driving on motorways at the moment because I have no need to (just town driving) 2) There are only 3 or 4 motorways where you can get the speeds I describe (and this will be stopped sometime soon as well), the rest you have to tootle along at about 85 or so.
 
I must live near 3 of those motorways then, you can happily achieve those speeds and in excess of, on the M4, M32 and M5 and they are all very close to me.

Im glad you dont drink and drive and also that you only drive at those speeds in what you would call "the right conditions", my stance may have been a bit insulting or harsh, but considering what I do for a living to see people glorify speeding really gets my goat!
 
Sorry guys....all your points are valid. I have never in 20 years of driving had a crash (I know that is no guarantee of future performance). My point is somewhat in the mode of a characature. I agree that driving at speed with no knowledge and ability is wrong. I agree that my solution is not the best available - it was suggested more in the manner of getting some steam out of my collar and possibly irking someone else. I don't mean to offend Painy; genuinely, I am not an aging boy racer, road rager or danger merchant - I just like to drive at speed commensurate with road surface and car ability. I will try and be more reasonable and less antagonistic, and then maybe you won't find me such a 'pratt' :(
 
Painy said:
Gadaffi_Duck said:
On the note of speed camera's they DO NOT reduce the amount of accidents they just simple occur in different places.

The number of road accidents in Northamptonshire is steadily decreasing. I believe that the introduction of speed cameras and the labeling of "red routes" have made a large contribution to these lower figures.

Whilst I heartily agree with most of what you say, Government statistics show that only 2% of fatalaties occur on motorways. I lived in Germany for eleven years and regularly drove long distances. German drivers are more thoughtful and polite than their UK counterparts, and their lane discipline is superb - they will ALWAYS indicate before changing lanes. Also, German TV shows a ten minute "think & Drive" programme a couple of times each week, providing hints and tips on good practice whilst driving.
What a pity that we in the UK don't have this type of programme.
 
Apologies for calling you a prat, I sometimes forget that I get the thrill of driving at speed on a daily occurance and legally.

I am also under the same threat of crashing my vehicle, because you never know what is going to happen.

One thing I will say in the defence of speeders, is its not only speed that kills, I have been to jobs where people have crashed their cars doing 130mph and walked out with no major injury at all, but I have also been to accidents where people have crashed at 30mph and died.
 
ive always though its a hinderance as you are so paranoid at the speed you are travelling that you spend more time whatching your speedo,road signs,etc
than what is actually infront of you
and i would have thought if you arnt whatching the road even if you are doing the speed limit you are going to have a much worse accedent as you probably arent going to break as quickly thus increasing the impact of the crash
directly contradicting the porpose in the fisrt place

and secondly just where do all these taxes go to?
road tax is anything but used on roads.
and in iirc it either income tax or vat that was introduced after ww2 to help get the country on its feet
that was almost 100 years ago lol
and why do we need road tax if we pay any other tax as its just one and the same with self justifing names...grrrrr
 
Tin Finger said:
ive always though its a hinderance as you are so paranoid at the speed you are travelling that you spend more time whatching your speedo,road signs,etc
than what is actually infront of you
and i would have thought if you arnt whatching the road even if you are doing the speed limit you are going to have a much worse accedent as you probably arent going to break as quickly thus increasing the impact of the crash
directly contradicting the porpose in the fisrt place

Why haven't car manufacturers developed "head up" displays to put vital information in the driver's line of sight/
 
I thought there *was* a car made once which projected all the dashboard info onto the inside of the windshield.
 
I believe that head's up displays are quite distracting - There used to be something called FIST (i shit you not), that was an initiative for dismounted infantry to include hi tech stuff. Getting too much info can be very distracting - perhaps heads up in a car would engender similar problems and thus more crashes?
 
Although there are good arguments for and against speeding I think one thing that is being missed here is that speeding is against the law. I for one put my hands up to say I do regularly speed but I also am prepared to take the concequences if and when I get caught. You can't just ignore a law because you think it is stupid or wrong.
 
Arthur ASCII said:
Tin Finger said:
ive always though its a hinderance as you are so paranoid at the speed you are travelling that you spend more time whatching your speedo,road signs,etc
than what is actually infront of you
and i would have thought if you arnt whatching the road even if you are doing the speed limit you are going to have a much worse accedent as you probably arent going to break as quickly thus increasing the impact of the crash
directly contradicting the porpose in the fisrt place

Why haven't car manufacturers developed "head up" displays to put vital information in the driver's line of sight/
Car manufacturers have developed a cruise control type thing where you can press a button when you are at 60/70 and the car will cruise along at the speed without any input from yourself. It can of course be immediately overridden as soon as you touch the pedals. I had a friend who had this in a hire car he got. Can't remember which make though. I think it is a great idea.
 
That's pretty common...my parents' Jetta had that and I tried it once when I was driving with them. It kind of weirded me out, to be honest. ;)
 
Leaferne said:
That's pretty common...my parents' Jetta had that and I tried it once when I was driving with them. It kind of weirded me out, to be honest. ;)

Can lead to horrible lazy driving, chopping and changing lanes to avoid dropping out of cruise control
 
yeh the speed limit is within the law
but
you here of charvers that have commited maybe 300 offences getting slapped on the wrist again
while the rest of us that maybe go 3 to 4 mph over the limit getting stuffed again
it seems to me the govenment want a police state and also want us to make them do it
lets face it to stop these repeat offenders just put them in the army ,it would be cheaper than sending then to africa etc
and send then to the faukland islands *spelling* with no more than a shovel for about 5 years
i bet within 1 year there mates wont think they are cool or whatever for
A; having an abso and
B; for bearking it

no the government must want chaos so they have to impose martial law theyve already depolyed the army to help the police lol

i cant see any other reason unless they couldnt orginize a p**up in a brewery

either way i think we should worry
 
I have to say that i'm quite pleased about the proposed new system of road taxes as i live in the country- i have to say it drives me up the wall that my family pay the same taxes as everyone else but don't benefit from public transport etc as it's not viable in my area- at least the new road tax would take account of a lack of alternatives. I know plenty of people who make journeys all the time when they could walk, ride a bike or take a bus, the road tax just acknowledges that i can't do that to make even simple trips and charges me less accordingly.
 
Speeding is my new least favourite topic, having been nobbled by two speed cameras and hence within a gnats gooley of a ban. I got one for doing 38 on an urban dual carriagway with no change of limit signs for the section with the camera and then again exactly a year later for doing 82 on the A1M. I am an experienced and well trained driver, but speed has never been my bag. The faster you go, in whatever car, the more risks you take; whether its the reaction times needed or the energy of an eventual impact.

The problem with the road charges is that they will go up, its the nature of all tax. The government have reached the limits of the road fund license cos it looks like alot of money, so they need a new plan that seems less painfull. I dont think it will help congestion, I dont even think that's the aim.

:evil:
 
so lets list the legitamate ,if you can call them,taxes

we have

income tax
value added tax(vat)
national insurance(old stealth tax)
poll tax
road fund licence(lol)
petrol duty

please add......
 
death duty
inheritance tax
(beer tax/fag tax)?
stamp duty
 
Congestion Charge
Tax on savings/investments
Techically, car insurance is a type of tax I believe
 
Tv License (have to pay it)
CSA (definate stealth tax)
 
and not including all the ways we are fined forthis or that

just where is all the money and whats it beeing spent on??
for me i cant understand why i have to pay vat and income tax as well as council tax
should at the very most two of the three do?
apart from emptying the bins what is council tax for?
as i would have thought vat+incomtax pay for everything else..


why bother with the mryad of taxes and all the people needed to collect chech etc

why not just have one standard tax,it would cost less making less need for taxes.
 
Speeding is looked on very harshly by the company I work for. They have a whole safety lecture on the subject and a DVD

The have also increased our workload

and the distances we have to travel

yes they take speeding very seriously

Re speed cameras, many are put where there are accident black spots

many are not
 
My first post!

I always have the opinion re: speed limits that 70mph on motorways and associated speed limits on other roads are quite respectable. It was only a few hundred years ago folk used to trot along badly maintained roads via horse and cart. "70 miles per hour" thats fantastic really you could be in Wales in an hour from where i live and in two hours sitting on a beach somewhere, a journey that used to take a week way back in the 1700's. I watch folk every day zip along the motorway at speeds in excess of 100 mph often people who work for the same company as me heading to the same place. Relatively speaking i arrive quite chilled out and happy while they are sitting spitting out pieces of their steering wheels and moaning about the BMW driver who wouldnt move out of the way in the fast lane. My Gran always had it right "better to be late in this life than early in the next". Old folk always know best and if they drive slowly and carefully then thats good enough for me!
 
WHY WAS SPEED CASE DROPPED?

11:00 - 10 January 2006
Police have dropped a speeding prosecution against a driver and apologised to him after he demanded to see photographic evidence of the offence.

Martin Shirley was told he was being prosecuted after being caught travelling at 66mph in a 40mph limit. But Mr Shirley was sure he was not going that fast in his Land Rover - and asked to see photographs which proved his guilt.

The Devon and Cornwall Safety Camera Partnership could not produce the pictures, taken automatically when an offence is committed, and it wrote to him saying it was dropping the case, blaming "human error".

But it refused to say how the mistake happened, and has ruled out reviewing other prosecutions.

Mr Shirley said: "It is clearly unacceptable that drivers can be prosecuted in error for speeding, based on erroneous evidence which they are not shown and which would in many cases remain undetected."

A notice of prosecution sent by police, who take cases to court on behalf of the partnership, claimed Mr Shirley was travelling at 66mph in a 40mph roadworks limit on the A30 on Bodmin Moor in December. But when he challenged the finding, the partnership wrote back admitting it did not have the photographic evidence of the offence.

Motorists paid £3 million in speed camera fines in Devon and Cornwall last year. A total of 53,204 drivers were handed fixed penalty notices.

But a series of incidents have cast doubt on the accuracy of speed cameras. Portland deputy mayor Kris Haskins got a ticket for driving at 51mph, but after checking the pictures, he was able to prove he was doing just 13mph. Officials said a "projected reflection" triggered the speed camera.

Motorist Paul Cox was "clocked" doing 90mph in Plymouth by a police speed gun, but he had his cruise control set at 70mph at the time, and a court threw out the case, saying there were discrepancies in the speed gun evidence.

Just last month, motorcyclist Bryn Carlyon was recorded doing an apparent 46mph in a 30mph zone, but used photographs to prove his speed was just 18mph. The safety camera partnership in Cardiff said a bus travelling in the opposite direction could have triggered the false reading.

Businessman Mr Shirley, a regular user of the A30 in Cornwall and Devon, was on his way from Bath to Newquay.

He was astonished to see the camera flash just after 8am on December 12 because he felt that he had been making a conscious effort to observe the limit in his Land Rover.

A letter from an official in the police's Safety Camera Unit at Plymouth and dated January 3, stated: "I have reviewed the evidence and this further check has indicated that an error has occurred with the speed that has been recorded. This error is very much regretted and I offer my sincere apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused."

Mr Shirley said: "Many drivers might have simply accepted that the intended prosecution was correct.

"Although completely innocent, they would have paid the fine, had three points put on their licence, and suffered increased insurance premiums. Ultimately the three points might have contributed to a driver losing their licence when added to other points gained before or after this 'offence', with all the consequences which that would lead to."

Mr Shirley said: "When my vehicle triggered the camera, I knew that it was almost certainly an error as I had been trying to stay within the speed limit. Hence my request to see the photographic evidence after I received the Notice of Intended Prosecution.

A spokesman for the Devon and Cornwall Safety Camera Partnership said: "The partnership has a comprehensive process of checking in which there are opportunities for human error to occur. A recent case was resolved as a result of secondary checks being made, so there was never any possibility of prosecution.

"I must stress that human error is extremely rare. The partnership only wants to prosecute those that are speeding."

The spokesman said Mr Shirley's case would not lead to a review of all prosecutions arising from speed cameras.
WMN
 
ive recently read about a case when a speed camera took a picture of a car which was at a standstill in a trafic jam
the camera reported that the car pictured was doing 80mph
the reason being the lorrys rear door was vibrating due to the engine
giving the camera a false reading
have also read that the gatso cameras havent been tested on motorcycles at all
this all gives me the greatest confidence...........................

lets face it cameras wont make the roads safer will they only the police can

obviously its a masive money spinner aint it

like the case recently of a woman,who,was lost on here own on christmass eve on a motorway in birningham

shee saw a poilce car who had pulled over another car and decided to stop to ask directions
the said policemad decided to give the lady a £60 pound fine as its an offence to stop on the hard sholder of a moterway!!
1 if its so dangerous why had he himself stopped or atleast not directed the first car away?
2 so much for a police force you can trust/ring/speak to/help or care less about while in your car
3 how many ppl do trafic cops have fine/nic before they can go back to base?

then thers the guy who recently was stoped by an off duty policeman because he had snow on his roof of his car.
the driver involved was one of the first ppl in england to have pased his advanced driving test and had done a futher couse
the police man involved had tryed to bully this guy into admitting he was wrong
1 stopping a car while not in uniform is an offence iirc
2stopping a car on a snowwy road is in itself a danger
3mostly every other car had snow on them as at the time there was heavy snow fall so was thsi guy saying all cars should stop untill winter had ended?
4this was the only crime this guy could have prevented no really???

recently in durham there has been a case where a drunken student was arested his crime being he called a police horse gay
no really he was arrested and spent the night in a police sell
the case was later dropped the the crown pocicution service due to a lack of evidence yeh right

all this ranting is about one thing


the police nither care or can do anything to help us honest people as they are ovliously hoplessy chasing either money or statistics
the govenment want x amount of both and the police dont care how they meet them
 
oh and yeh dont you think the police the child support agency or whoever the govenment dept they are like dealing with people who will coperate
no really if you are no coperative mostly you will be left alone
fines wont be chased,abso not inforced,child matenance not collected

and if you look into it its because

prisons are full(and apently cant be built)
child suport system in chaos(and they dont care)
the police are over streched(but can fill in coutless forms to whoever as long as they turn up)

personally i think instead of absos for runaway teens,the ones with lets say 2 to 3 hundered convictions for well robbery,arson,gbh etc
should be conscriped into the army and sent to the far reaches of the earth(that island next to argentina)with a tent and a shovel
there iidiot mates wont think they are hard/funny at all will they
this would be a real deterant to these people
at the momment its a joke to everbody involved and aint helping anyone
 
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