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Rocks That Bring Bad Luck To Tourists

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Anonymous

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I remember seeing a show about ten years ago about a place where tourists who try to take local rocks home with them invariably experience extreme misfortune. Does this really happen? If so, where? I think the place was somewhere in Hawaii or another Pacific island, but I could easily be wrong.
 
Mona Loa

It's Mona Loa, in Hawaii, the volcano Goddess Pele gets mighty miffed, it seems. There was even a BRADY BUNCH episode based around this, for the really serious scholars.

Fires of Eden by Dan Simmons uses this to good effect, along with introducing Mark Twain as a character in the parts of the book dealing with his times.
 
Not to be a nit-picker, but it's Mauna Loa, not Mona. But in any case I believe the legend refers to anywhere in Volcanoes National Park on the Big Island of Hawai'i.

And while it is certainly true that Polynesians in general and Hawaiians in particular view the rocks/land as being imbued with manna, a sacred life force, I'm pretty sure the whole thing was concocted out of whole cloth by a couple of park rangers (in the 30's?) who didn't want to see the park go the way of the petrified forrest in Arizona, which has been systematically carted away by tourists seeking souveniers over the past hundred years.

So what better way than to scare off folks than by saying :"the volcano godess is going to get you, and all these formerly skeptical tourists have sent back rocks that they took after they had every imaginable bad thing happen to them...blah, blah, blah."

Sorry no source material on any of this, just half-remembered tales from my misspent youth in the Islands.
 
A Moan for Mauna Mona

For my misspelling, pennance, in the form of the opinion that animism is part of the Polynesian culture and so if the Park Rangers were responsible for this rumor, at least they knew enough to cobble it up right.

There was a HAWAII FIVE-O episode about this, too, I believe. And probably a MAGNUM P.I. and maybe even an episode of that Fifties show with Troy Donahue, what was that one?
 
Point well taken. At least there is a semblence of respect to the indiginous (sp?) culture that existed before Captain Cook, et al, arrived.

I'm not sure about Troy Donahue, but I think a Gilligan's Island episode dealt with an almost identical subject matter!
:D :D
 
Was It

STRANGERS IN PARADISE maybe? What am I thinking of, a Fifites or Sixties show with Troy Donahue, set in Hawaii.
 
I think I've heard this story about a hill in Ireland which pilgrims climb to pray at the top.

(Or maybe I'm confusing it with the story about the biiiiig lottery winner who lost his ticket on a hike up an Irish hill....!)
 
Silbury Hill

Silbury Hill in England, actually. Walk up the widdershins spiral and let it rip.
 
Main Island

A friend who lived in Hawaii for many years reports that it's a real Polynesian belief about taking rocks and angering Pele, and also that one should take a rock, wrap it in a ti leaf, and leave it at a heiau, which is like a big rock wall of blessings left by passers by. You push your leaf-wrapped rock into holes in the rock wall, as many have done. Some are in seemingly inaccessible places.

Wrapping the rock in a ti leaf isn't traditional, but a modern add-on. In fact, it damages the plant and spoils the integrity of the heiau. Offerings of coins, candles, and incense can cause permanent damage, too.

Seems in fact the park rangers frown on and discourage all this.

It applies only to Mauna Loa, but it's not a great idea to steal rocks from the other places either.

The fresh lava flows often destroy villages, but leave the heiaus alone they say.

Isn't superstitious thinking interesting?

For more: http://www2.lanikai.k12.hi.us/kawainui/CULTURE/heiau.htm
 
It should also be noted that taking rocks away from these Hawaiin parks is a crime. When I went to Mount Haleakala in Maui some years back, the rangers made us quite aware of the legal penalties of taking rocks, and they were also all too pleased to relate to us the legend that the rocks were cursed. A section of the station was filled with hundred of letters from people who had visited the area and taken rocks, but were now mailing them back with tale after tale of bad luck and woe that had befallen the since their transgression.
 
Silbury Hill in England, actually. Walk up the widdershins spiral and let it rip.
Let what rip?

I've probably just not been reading with due care and attention, but it does rather look like you are referring to the little known anti-clockwise guffing ritual of the ancient English.
 
Ripping Good Yarn

If you don't know what to let rip, you'd best leave it to the professionals.

If there are any.
 
Tenerife

If it's genuine culture and not some add-on from a later jokester, then there is still little surprising about also finding this belief in Tenerife, because animists cultures would feel this way. It's only sensible to those who believe everything has a spirit.
 
Ogopogo said:
It should also be noted that taking rocks away from these Hawaiin parks is a crime. When I went to Mount Haleakala in Maui some years back, the rangers made us quite aware of the legal penalties of taking rocks, and they were also all too pleased to relate to us the legend that the rocks were cursed.

That is exactly the same story that we were told when we went up Haleakala a few months ago. (Absolutely amazing place.) The tops of the volcanoes have a lot of religious significance. One traditional belief, for example, is that (IIRC) if you can obtain someones umbilical cord, then you can use it to control them in some fashion. This is clearly a *bad thing* so the traditional solution was to take the cord up to the top of Haleakala and hide it, either under rocks, or down pits.
 
Umbilical Harmonics

Is it at all hard to walk up Haleakala? I've heard it's fairly gradual, but very long and quite high at the end. (Over 10, 000 feet perhaps?)

It being a volcano, one wonders why not simply burn the umbilicals as a kind of offering. In any case, interesting stuff. Animism's a caution, ain't it? Far more fun than, Cough up some details during your confession, lads, and pay the priest on the way out...
 
Uluru rocks returned to "break curses"

Visitors who took pieces of souvenir rock from Uluru in Australia have been sending them back because they claim to have had bad luck since taking them.

The famous landmark - a huge red rock in the middle of the desert - attracts 500,000 tourists each year.

Some of them have posted back fragments taken as dsouvenirs in a bid to break "curses", whicj they blame on the rock.

Uluru is sacres to Aboriginal people and taking pieces homw is illegal.
Source BBC Ceefax
 
I hear that stones taken from some 'holy' hill in Ireland are also believed cursed.
The local post office receives dozens of returned stones every year with letters pleading for their replacement on the hill.

I have a cobble stone from Radcliffe Square in Oxford, when it was being dug up last year.

Not that I'm superstitious- but perhaps I'm hoping it makes me clever!
 
I've got a piece of the Berlin Wall in my cabinet. Makes a good discussion item. Incidentally it's very tough, and I had to repeatedly bash the wall with a brick to break a piece off.
Of course, the Berlin Wall wasn't exactly a sacred site. I would have more respect for the Aboriginal people of Australia than to pinch a bit of their - well, I guess it's like a cathedral to them. So in a way I'm glad it brought the people bad luck. I mean, if you sneaked into Canterbury Cathedral and broke a bit off one of the pillars as a souvenir, and then had bad luck, well, it's hard fishcakes really.
The respectful way to behave is, of course, leave only footprints and take only photographs.

Big Bill Robinson
 
superstitions....

I was in Hawai'i not too long ago, and they have similar stories of volcanic rocks being removed from the islands, and how they are considered sacred to the goddess Pele. The Postal Sevice reports that many are sent back through the mail.
The lava rocks there are just about all studded with beautiful green crystals, [olivine, I believe] so I could see the temptation to take them home.
I didn't though... because I AM superstitious!

Trace Mann
 
i have a tile from the floor of Marconi's original transmitter hut at poldhu in kernow. It doesn't seem to help me surf the net any quicker, but it might say something about my religion?
i wouldn't like to see anyone chipping bits off my local stone circle though, photos don't cause any damage (except to my spirit of course :D )
 
"Unlucky" souvenirs returned to Uluru

Thu Feb 19, 9:15 AM ET

By Michelle Nichols

ALICE SPRINGS, Australia (Reuters) - To the unwary Englishman it was just a harmless little red pebble, picked up as a souvenir at the base of Uluru, the immense monolith in the central Australian desert once known as Ayers Rock.


"But since then, my wife has had a stroke and things have worked out terribly for my children -- we have had nothing but bad luck," he wrote when he sent the pebble back halfway around the world to its rightful home.

This was just one of hundreds of rocks returned to the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park during the past decade, many with similar tales of woe linked by tourists to their decision to take home a souvenir from the sacred Aboriginal site.

"The general tenor of a lot of the responses is that the rocks are being returned because they bring bad luck," said Tony English, manager of the 132,500-hectare (327,400-acre) park in the red, desert heart of Australia.

"It is a reasonably impressive collection. Most of them are fairly small, around the size that you can pop in your pocket, but there has been a few larger items removed in the past."

Among the packages arriving almost daily at the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park office, 275 miles south west of the town of Alice Springs, was a piece of rock weighing nine kg (20 lbs) that was returned by a German tourist.

"They're coming in from all over the world," English said.

AYERS ROCK

European explorer William Gosse named the red monolith Ayers Rock in 1873, but it became known officially by its Aboriginal name Uluru after it was handed back to its traditional owners, the Anangu people, in 1985.

The Anangu then leased the world heritage-listed area, which has sacred meaning to them, back to the Australian government for 99 years for use as a national park. Almost 400,000 visitors are expected there this year.

While Kata Tjuta -- the name of a nearby rock formation also known as The Olgas -- means "many heads", Uluru is simply a place name given to the monolith by the Anangu, one of hundreds of Aboriginal groups living across the vast continent.

They associate the park with many songs and stories passed down to them through generations, and believe the area is governed by powerful Aboriginal law that they must protect and support.

To them Uluru is like a cathedral and the route of the climb follows the path taken by the Mala men, the Anangu's ancestors, when they arrived at the rock thousands of years ago.

"Government law is written on paper. Anangu carry our Law in our heads and in our souls," they said in a statement.

For one young woman, Gail, whose nationality is unknown, her father's gift of several small rocks taken from Uluru was too much to bear.

"I was horrified because I know this is such a deeply spiritual place and what he did was probably offensive to you," she wrote in a letter to the Anangu people to return the rocks.

"I believe that my family is experiencing a lot of ill health and bad luck since then and, although people may laugh at my superstitious nature, I believe the stones are something to do with this. I will try anything to help my family."




English said he hoped the return of hundreds of rocks meant people were starting to respect Uluru as a sacred site.

"I am hoping the stories of bad luck -- whether real or perceived -- is maybe a signpost of hopefully a deeper notion of respect for Anangu culture," he said.

FATAL ATTRACTION

Visitors to Uluru may climb the steep 345-metre (1,100-feet) high rock, which has a circumference of 5.8 miles, but are strongly encouraged not to do so, English said.

"There is certainly a very strong message conveyed here in the park about respecting Anangu wishes about the rock and the park generally. People should be making an informed choice."

More than 60 people have died on the rock during the past 50 years, many from heart attacks while climbing the rock in soaring desert temperatures, but also from straying off the safety chain and falling on the steep, slippery surface.

In 1998, stringent guidelines were introduced to close the climb if rain was predicted, if temperatures were forecast to rise higher than 36 Celsius, or if it was windy at the summit.

The rock climb can also be closed for cultural reasons and in 2001 was shut for nearly two weeks in May as a mark of respect for the death of an Aboriginal elder.

"We are greatly concerned about your safety while on our land, because we want you to return to your families to share the knowledge of our culture that you have gained," the Anangu people said on the national park's website, http://www.deh.gov.au/parks/uluru.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/nm/20040219/od_uk_nm/oukoe_australia_uluru
 
And more??

Tourists return rocks stolen from Uluru

The World Today - Tuesday, 20 April , 2004 12:46:00
Reporter: Anne Barker

TANYA NOLAN: If you've ever climbed Uluru or Ayers Rock, you may've been tempted to pilfer a piece as a souvenir.

Park staff have no idea how many tourists steal rocks or stones from Uluru, but they're constantly amazed at the hundreds, if not thousands of tourists who send rocks back out of remorse.

All over the world foreign tourists are sending back rocks in the post, some weighing in at 15 kilograms, and sometimes with letters apologising for their theft.

As Anne Barker reports, there are now so many rocks piling up at park headquarters, traditional owners are considering a formal returning ceremony to take the rocks back to where they came from.

ANNE BARKER: Every week staff at Uluru National Park receive oddly shaped packages in the mail from all over the world, all of them containing the familiar red rock of Uluru.

Some pieces weigh just a few grams, while the biggest so far is a 15-kilogram chunk of stone, and all were taken by tourists who were later wracked by guilt.

Graeme Calma chairs the Mutitjulu Community Council, which represents Uluru's traditional owners.

GRAEME CALMA: Usually the people, when they send the stones back, they'll send a um, a little letter apologising to the people and sometimes they'll say where they took the stones from, which area, but we have a lot… a lot of stones that we don't know where to return to which part of the rock.

ANNE BARKER: Tourists who climb the rock have been snaffling these little souvenirs for decades, as a reminder of their visit to one of the world's great cultural icons. But as knowledge of Uluru's cultural significance spreads, so too does the message that taking rocks from a sacred place is wrong.

Graeme Calma says many tourists return the rocks in the belief they're cursed and bring bad luck to whoever steals them.

GRAEME CALMA: People have had car accidents, there was one particular person lost his… one of his family members, he had accident, lost his job, it just went on and on and on, so… yeah.

ANNE BARKER: Why do they blame the rocks for that?

GRAEME CALMA: I'm not too sure. A lot of the times people who do have bad luck will tell their friends and their friends and things like that, so in some of the letters they will explain and say I was told by a friend, and you know.

ANNE BARKER: But ironically the local Anangu people say there is no cultural tradition that says stolen stones will bring bad luck, and nobody quite knows how the myth developed.

Neal Adamson is a quarantine officer with the unusual job of checking every rock that arrives in the mail, to see if it's contaminated with foreign matter. He like others has tried to find out where the story originated.

NEAL ADAMSON: There's several other stories that are similar throughout the world with different areas, and we think it's probably just the fact that people know it is a sacred site to the Aboriginal people of Australia, and the story has just manifested itself, I suppose, over the years from different cultures, and it's seen now to be bad luck.

ANNE BARKER: Back at park headquarters these miniature Ulurus are slowly piling up, creating a whole new landmark of their own. It's left park staff, including manager Tony English, perplexed about what to do with them.

For the moment they're stored in a secure place, but eventually traditional owners are planning a formal returning ceremony, to take the rocks back to where they belong.

TONY ENGLISH: The collection will be managed in an appropriate way in the next, you know, few months, I would imagine, after a fair bit of discussion with the Board of Management.

Obviously, all the material is of cultural significance, so any management of it is going to involve, you know, that sort of dimension, I would imagine, of cultural interest and concern.

TANYA NOLAN: It deepens the mystery of the rock really, doesn't it? Tony English is the manager of Uluru National Park, speaking there to Anne Barker.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1091138.htm
 
Re: Silbury Hill

FraterLibre said:
Silbury Hill in England, actually. Walk up the widdershins spiral and let it rip.

Please don't.

It's riddled with holes and slowly collapsing. Every person that climbs it adds to the problem. There should be "Keep Off" signs posted on the fence around the bottom, but somebody keeps removing them. Enjoy it from the road, or the car park, and write to English Heritage about the disgraceful state it's been allowed to get into, but please don't add to the problem by climbing up.

Please.
 
About 10-15 years ago, Danebury Ring in Hampshire had to be drastically reinforced due to serious erosion from climing. The main gate area earthworks were covered in thick plastic netting to encourage the grass to grow back and lots of 'DO NOT CLIMB' signs were added. Ugly, but unfortunatly unavoidable.
On the sad subject of TV programmes, I remember watching a 'Neibours' storyline years ago involving an unlucky rock that had to be sent back to Uluru.
:D
 
Re: Re: Silbury Hill

SilburyMoon said:
Please don't.

It's riddled with holes and slowly collapsing. Every person that climbs it adds to the problem. There should be "Keep Off" signs posted on the fence around the bottom, but somebody keeps removing them. Enjoy it from the road, or the car park, and write to English Heritage about the disgraceful state it's been allowed to get into, but please don't add to the problem by climbing up.

Please.

Had no idea it was being destroyed in this way and regret it's being allowed to happen. Proper maintenance and upkeep would be in order, and proper oversight of visitors would help, too. Letting things fall into ruin over some misguided notion of "preserving" is sad and absurd. Maintaining a site with repairs, grooming, and controlled tourism would keep it around for centuries to come.

Well, presuming any bipedal humanoid primates are left to worry about it by then.
 
I had a big reply written out to you there, FL, but when I went to post it I'd timed out. Let me throw a couple of links at you instead:

People Ignoring EH Signs

Silbury News

Silbury Damage in 2001

How You Can Help


Veering wildly back on topic for a moment, The Red Lion at Avebury frequently recieves small pieces of stone in the mail that people have taken away as souvenirs and want to return because they've brought them bad luck.
 
Thanks

Thank you for the links; I'm glad to know and hope I can be of some help.
 
Linkage

What's fascinating is that people perceive bad luck as linked somehow, or caused by, or attracted by these stones they walk off with. One might reasonably ascribe a bad patch to any number of things, yet these stones seem to bear the brunt of blame. Wonder why?
 
Won't Let Me Edit

I wanted also to add that, in the case of Hawaii, where there are legends that tourists hear about, I can see how people would steal a rock as a kind of test, and the in the backs of their minds keep an eye out for bad luck and, if they think they see it, blame the rock's influence and return it.

In cases where there is not an extant legend, though, I don't understand how the rocks get blamed over and above any other souvenir, or local sorcerer, or impish god, or what ever.
 
The Victorians used to chip bits off every stone monument they could lay hands on. I've heard of people taking home bits of Stone Henge, Florence Cathedral and the Taj Mahal!

We had a stone circle in Turton, but in the C19th the farmer who owned the field it was in destroyed it because he didn't like people coming onto his land. :(
 
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