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Yithian

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#61
The apogee of 'spikey bits' was the publication of The Lost & The Damned and Slaves to the Darkness, the two heavyweight companions/sourcebooks that covered the lore behind the (now minus one) four Chaos gods. This aesthetic had always sold well with the second wave of GW devotees, those onboard throughout the 80s.

They were, I believe, the first explicitly adult books ('mature readers') to be published with a connection to WFB, WFRP & WH40K, and they featured a not inconsiderable amount of anatomical crudity and sex to accompany the usual violence. Don't quote me on this, but I think they were led by the need to provide an outlet for their (then) highly talented artistic team that had produced a large quantity of dark content, the like of which had once been published as independent 'portfolios', which the company no longer covered. This must have been (from memory) around 1990.

Again from memory, the publications sold very well, but they were (in the parlance of our times) 'problematic', coming at a time where younger teens were entering the hobby for the first time and complaints/concerns were received/raised. Not long after this came the company buy-out by Brian Ansell and partners, during which process the facts and figures that were required revealed what was going to maximise profits--and subsequent editions of the 'core' games were cleaned up, boxed games proliferated and rules were simplified.

The books, incidentally, are excellent for causal reading, particularly The Lost & the Damned.
 
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Ogdred Weary

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#62
I only got involved from about 1987/88, I obsessively re-read the WFRP rule book dozens of times, not cover to cover after the first time, just constantly referring to it. The edition I had only had three Chaos Gods, described very briefly - Nurgle, Korne and Malal. Apparently Malal was later dropped due to some sort of copyright issue with one of the creators. Chaos, the mutations and the addition of Tzeentch and Slaanesh were already all over White Dwarf mag, I think the two Realm of Chaos supplements were already out by then.

I recall the "For Mature Readers Only" tag and therefore made the, with hindsight very mature and frankly boring decision that they were not for 10yro me. I decided I could wait until I was older, I'd have liked to read them a few years later in my early teens but they were already long out of print by then - I think. Looking back Chaos was extremely horrific in concept - people selling their soles to Gods or essentially having them stolen through effective press ganging, the minds warping and bodies slowly or rapidly becoming something akin to The Thing. Ending up either dead, as mindless spawn or as demons. Then on top of that was all the sexual stuff, I suppose the worst of that was confined to the RoC supplements and later on, the novels.

I'd be slightly concerned about a 10-13 yro reading some of that stuff but, that said, only slightly. Children process stuff very differently to adults and are more fascinated on a visceral level where adults are more "sensitive" and worried about the consequences, I think. I remember Neil Gaiman talking about Coraline, a children's novel where a child is entrapped by a monster imitating her mum: his daughter saw it as an exciting adventure, adults were worried about the child and saw it as Horror.

I personally like the idea of the force of Chaos in the GW universe, though by no means wholly original - it's cribbed heavily from Lovecraft among others, it is still the most idiosyncratic element of the brand. It also allowed people to endlessly modify miniatures, adding heads, subtracting limbs, adding tentacles and so on.
 

Naughty_Felid

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#63
I only got involved from about 1987/88, I obsessively re-read the WFRP rule book dozens of times, not cover to cover after the first time, just constantly referring to it. The edition I had only had three Chaos Gods, described very briefly - Nurgle, Korne and Malal. Apparently Malal was later dropped due to some sort of copyright issue with one of the creators. Chaos, the mutations and the addition of Tzeentch and Slaanesh were already all over White Dwarf mag, I think the two Realm of Chaos supplements were already out by then.

I recall the "For Mature Readers Only" tag and therefore made the, with hindsight very mature and frankly boring decision that they were not for 10yro me. I decided I could wait until I was older, I'd have liked to read them a few years later in my early teens but they were already long out of print by then - I think. Looking back Chaos was extremely horrific in concept - people selling their soles to Gods or essentially having them stolen through effective press ganging, the minds warping and bodies slowly or rapidly becoming something akin to The Thing. Ending up either dead, as mindless spawn or as demons. Then on top of that was all the sexual stuff, I suppose the worst of that was confined to the RoC supplements and later on, the novels.

I'd be slightly concerned about a 10-13 yro reading some of that stuff but, that said, only slightly. Children process stuff very differently to adults and are more fascinated on a visceral level where adults are more "sensitive" and worried about the consequences, I think. I remember Neil Gaiman talking about Coraline, a children's novel where a child is entrapped by a monster imitating her mum: his daughter saw it as an exciting adventure, adults were worried about the child and saw it as Horror.

I personally like the idea of the force of Chaos in the GW universe, though by no means wholly original - it's cribbed heavily from Lovecraft among others, it is still the most idiosyncratic element of the brand. It also allowed people to endlessly modify miniatures, adding heads, subtracting limbs, adding tentacles and so on.

I've found the law and chaos thing is pretty much down to Micheal Moorcock who was just massive in the 70's and 80's. All fantasy roleplaying of the 70's and 80's was heavily influenced by him. He wrote the rules on how Law and Chaos should be. D&D was pretty poor in adapting it. Early GW/White Dwarf in the UK was huge in exploring this.

Sadly for role-playing Warhammer was invented and it died and became a tabletop game.

Runequest, Traveler, CofC, T&T all died.
 

Ogdred Weary

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#64
I know Moorcock created the Law/Chaos polarity but does "Chaos" in his stories manifest in a way similar to the GW version? Bizarre Gods and demons, horrific mutations and so on?
 

Yithian

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#65
I've found the law and chaos thing is pretty much down to Micheal Moorcock who was just massive in the 70's and 80's. All fantasy roleplaying of the 70's and 80's was heavily influenced by him. He wrote the rules on how Law and Chaos should be. D&D was pretty poor in adapting it. Early GW/White Dwarf in the UK was huge in exploring this.

Sadly for role-playing Warhammer was invented and it died and became a tabletop game.

Runequest, Traveler, CofC, T&T all died.
CofC died as a Games Workshop licence, but it certainly lived on through Chaosium and is now in positively rude health with a huge proliferation of 'flavours' and settings from different writers and companies.
 

Yithian

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#66
CofC died as a Games Workshop licence, but it certainly lived on through Chaosium and is now in positively rude health with a huge proliferation of 'flavours' and settings from different writers and companies.
Speaking of which, I bought these two books on a whim several years back. The writing and research is excellent, and the artwork is gloomy and mysterious if a tad repetitive. Everything is sepia-toned and art-deco themed and the setting is interesting. The book is set up for two kinds of play (both 1930s instead of the canonical 20s) 'purist': traditional Call of Cthulhu mythos investigation or 'Pulp', in which the action moves much faster and there is more... well, action. The source book is a series of 'pulp' adventures and really quite fun.

Pages are representative--bonus points for the first to name the two famous mythos creatures depicted.

Ttext should be legible if you expand images to full-size)

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Ghostwoods

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#67
Trail of Cthulhu is a great piece of work. The Bookhounds of London supplement was a particularly evocative read. But Ken's a damn fine researcher, and a frighteningly erudite Lovecraftian.

Also, I can't believe no-one's name-checked the Mi-Go or the Great Race of Yith in the last couple of months. *shakes head*. Slack.
 

Yithian

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#68
Trail of Cthulhu is a great piece of work. The Bookhounds of London supplement was a particularly evocative read. But Ken's a damn fine researcher, and a frighteningly erudite Lovecraftian.

Also, I can't believe no-one's name-checked the Mi-Go or the Great Race of Yith in the last couple of months. *shakes head*. Slack.
Give that man a coconut.

There are, I'd hazard, more roleplaying supplements being published today than ever before, but a side-effect of this proliferation is that some of the writing is execrable and proof-reading simply doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Kenneth Hite is a good writer and the product shines as a result.
 

Naughty_Felid

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#71
Give that man a coconut.

There are, I'd hazard, more roleplaying supplements being published today than ever before, but a side-effect of this proliferation is that some of the writing is execrable and proof-reading simply doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Kenneth Hite is a good writer and the product shines as a result.
A regular on the early Blurry Photos podcasts where he was brilliant.
 

Yithian

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#72
Given the big audience on this board for 'Folk Horror', I thought I'd just pass on the few snippets of information I've gleaned about a forthcoming folk horror roleplaying game that will appear on Kickstarter in the next month or two. It hove into view for me as the writer behind the 'It Came From Beneath The Sea' game that I backed is also involved with this project. He mentioned in a recent YouTube video that it has a rural late-1970s-early-1980s vibe with a tone somewhere between The League of Gentlemen and A Field In England. The artwork that has been previewed certainly looks promising.

Solemn Vale
From the earth and of the soil, where ancient evils from a history long forgotten dwell in the shadows. A folk horror roleplaying game set within Solemn Vale, an isolated village in the South West of England. The idyllic facade of rural bliss masks a dark and sinister side of a community riddled with malevolence and corruption.

Solemn Vale is a narrative driven storytelling game where players tell abhorrent tales of horror and the supernatural. Twisted and macabre, laced with dread and paranoia and occasionally tinged with dark humour. Each story will deliver a small glimpse into the grim underbelly of the vale and the festering malevolence that feeds it.

There are those residing within the picturesque village who are not entirely willing to play along with the charade and have become increasingly unsettled by life within the close knit village. Players take on the role of inquisitive residents whose eyes have been opened to the festering evil that engulfs Solemn Vale.

https://dirtyvortex.net/solemn-vale/

271ce04dc3a01c0240ab17b5995179e9.jpg DpSmF9xU8AA6SyX.jpg-large.jpeg DqTFKecU8AAqp-6.jpg-large.jpeg DsGglEzVYAI_ifc.jpg-large.jpeg
 
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Yithian

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#73
Given the big audience on this board for 'Folk Horror', I thought I'd just pass on the few snippets of information I've gleaned about a forthcoming folk horror roleplaying game that will appear on Kickstarter in the next month or two. It hove into view for me as the writer behind the 'It Came From Beneath The Sea' game that I backed is also involved with this project. He mentioned in a recent YouTube video that it has a rural late-1970s-early-1980s vibe with a tone somewhere between The League of Gentlemen and A Field In England. The artwork that has been previewed certainly looks promising.

Solemn Vale
From the earth and of the soil, where ancient evils from a history long forgotten dwell in the shadows. A folk horror roleplaying game set within Solemn Vale, an isolated village in the South West of England. The idyllic facade of rural bliss masks a dark and sinister side of a community riddled with malevolence and corruption.

Solemn Vale is a narrative driven storytelling game where players tell abhorrent tales of horror and the supernatural. Twisted and macabre, laced with dread and paranoia and occasionally tinged with dark humour. Each story will deliver a small glimpse into the grim underbelly of the vale and the festering malevolence that feeds it.

There are those residing within the picturesque village who are not entirely willing to play along with the charade and have become increasingly unsettled by life within the close knit village. Players take on the role of inquisitive residents whose eyes have been opened to the festering evil that engulfs Solemn Vale.

https://dirtyvortex.net/solemn-vale/

View attachment 14946 View attachment 14947 View attachment 14948 View attachment 14949
There's a brief piece of flavour fiction up:

Welcoming Careful Drivers
Posted onFebruary 26, 2019AuthorDVAdmin

Intro fiction for Solemn Vale written by Ross Fisher-Davis

Tommy hadn’t spoken for a while. It had been a quiet moment as the little hatchback sped through the country lanes, and Gerald had begun to think the boy had dozen off in the back seat when, without warning, the old argument resumed.
“I still don’t get why we have to move.”

Gerald sighed, looking up at his son in the rear-view mirror. The boy has his chin in his hands, staring with glassy eyes as they passed green fields.

“Oh, come on mate. We’ve been through this.”

“But why? I don’t want to change schools again, I liked it at home.”

Gerald raised a hand from the wheel in surrender to the nine-year-old.

“We both knew there’d be some changes when we lost your mum, eh? This is just one of those changes. The house in Bristol was too much for just the two of us. Anyway, I thought you were excited to see your grandad’s old place?”

“It’s in the middle of nowhere, I’d never want to live here.”

“Lots of lads your age’d love to live in a place like Solemn Vale. Out in the countryside, lots to explore, all sorts of trouble to get into, yeah? Just wait till you see your grandad’s old house. Looks like something out of one of your games.”

The boy sulked, and didn’t respond. Gerald fought for words, keeping his eyes on the seemingly endless twisting road ahead.

“Your mum spent time there in the summers when she was your age, you know. She used to love talking about it. You’ll love the coast, much better than the old docks back home. You know there used to be pirates down in Solemn Vale back in the day?”

Tommy thought it over a bit.

“Real pirates?”

Gerald smiled to himself.

“That’s right. There’s all these coves down by the beaches that used to be full of pirate ships, and they say there’s all sorts of treasure down under the water still. You never know eh?”

Gerald thought he was on to something, and continued.

“And remember all grandma’s old war stories? All happened right there in Solemn Vale, years ago, didn’t it? All sorts goes on there. Just you wait and see.”

Tommy leaned forward in his seat.

“Why didn’t grandad ever come and see us in Bristol?”

Gerald exhaled and gave a shrug.


Continued:
https://dirtyvortex.net/welcoming-careful-drivers/
 

Naughty_Felid

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#74
I know Moorcock created the Law/Chaos polarity but does "Chaos" in his stories manifest in a way similar to the GW version? Bizarre Gods and demons, horrific mutations and so on?
You can see the mutations with the beastmen in the Corum books and the sailors of Pyarary in Elric. The gods too are pretty out there.
 

Verbal Earthworm

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#75
Sadly for role-playing Warhammer was invented and it died and became a tabletop game.
Unsure what you are saying here? Are you saying Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay died and was replaced by Warhammer Fantasy Battle?

I've found the law and chaos thing is pretty much down to Micheal Moorcock who was just massive in the 70's and 80's. All fantasy roleplaying of the 70's and 80's was heavily influenced by him. He wrote the rules on how Law and Chaos should be. D&D was pretty poor in adapting it. Early GW/White Dwarf in the UK was huge in exploring this.
Moorcock was responsible for the sixties reprise of law and chaos but he was inspired by the "big three" : Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and H.P.Lovecraft (pen-pals who wrote sometimes in a shared multiverse), themselves inspired in their turn by William Hope Hodgson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hope_Hodgson). Having read all the published works by all the above authors, I have witnessed the trickling down of ideas over several decades of writing until it met with RPG's in the seventies. Gary Gygax's alignment system was simple in the original D&D, just Lawful/Neutral/Chaos following Moorcock et al. closely, the revised alignment system he created for AD&D added Good/Neutral/Evil to the mix, muddying the waters somewhat and making for some odd roleplaying at times.

CofC died as a Games Workshop licence, but it certainly lived on through Chaosium
Chaosium was the original publisher.
 
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Ogdred Weary

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#76
Unsure what you are saying here? Are you saying Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay died and was replaced by Warhammer Fantasy Battle?



Moorcock was responsible for the sixties reprise of law and chaos but he was inspired by the "big three" : Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and H.P.Lovecraft (pen-pals who wrote sometimes in a shared multiverse), themselves inspired in their turn by William Hope Hodgson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hope_Hodgson). Having read all the published works by all the above authors, I have witnessed the trickling down of ideas over several decades of writing until it met with RPG's in the seventies. Gary Gygax's alignment system was simple in the original D&D, just Lawful/Neutral/Chaos following Moorcock et al. closely, the revised alignment system he created for AD&D added Good/Neutral/Evil to the mix, muddying the waters somewhat and making for some odd roleplaying at times.
I recall reading that GW sidelined WHFRP in favour of Fantasy Battle and 40K because they could shill a lot more miniatures with those systems, while the roleplaying was mostly imagination based.
 

kamalktk

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#78
Baldur's Gate 3, which looks like it will feature the Illithid.

 

Yithian

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#81
Joking apart.

It was a bit rubbish and I don't know where out copy is. Talisman,(board game), was much more popular with friends.
Also liked Talisman, Heroquest was considered 'lightweight' and only half acceptable. We tended to play it when plans for a proper wargaming or roleplaying session had fallen through.

The daddy of all such expandable 'board games' was Space Hulk. Brilliant game mechanics and a mix of depth and simplicity.
 

Yithian

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#82
Chaosium endorsed promotional adventure for Call of Cthulhu.

A perfect introduction for those who know little of the hobby or this particular game.

Still interesting and fun for experienced gamers to watch.

 
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