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Romans In Ireland

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Anonymous

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I'm an archaeology student at Queens University of Belfast and we just had a lecture by a Richard Warner from the Ulster Museum. We've all seen the stories of archaelogical discoveries being covered up or lost conveniently or supressed to avoid having to re-write the history books, and i can confirm that it happens all the time. Even in Ireland theres a fairly big one happening right now. It was always assumed the romans extended the Empire into england and wales and stopped at Scotland and avoided Ireland entirely. Well I can now confirm that it's total bollox, the romans definitely made it as far as north and west Iceland and possibly further west. Ireland was thought to have just a few random roman bits from trade but we now know that entire roman legions were roaming the countryside but the Republic of Ireland government has been hiding the artifacts and refusing permission to excavate some probable roman sites near the famous Navan site. Apparently they weren't too impressed with the idea that more foreigners had been wandering over the Irish countryside giving the natives a good thrashing!
 
I was reading about this last week. Surprised it took so long to get to the board. I nearly started the thread myself.

Its great news! Further proof of the actual intentions of the Romans in our Celtic provinces. Wonderfull stuff.
 
There's a story on the First Americans thread about the Brazilian (?) government attempting to airbrush Roman finds there out of the picture for political reasons.

Keep us updated on the Irish situation, Wowbagger!
 
Okay. More on the Roman Invasion. One roman fort is confirmed in Ireland but this was again covered up. Richard Warner got an anonymous aerial photo from the Irish surveying dept showing the outline of a probable to definite Roman fort. Stories about foreigners in Ireland are only found in oral tradition but some do match romans. Complaints by some say that few artifacts are found, but this is countered by the fact that all that exists in the way of artifacts from Caesars invasion of England are some horse bits, even the Norman Invasions of England and Ireland have left behind little in the way of militarty equipment. Roman graves are found in Ireland. Whilst this sounds like it could be down to the odd Roman trader the graves feature proper roman cremation pots and grave goods. These graves would require a very considerable group to actually bother bringing this stuff with them i.e a Roman Legion. The Irish are recorded as raiding the Welsh and English coasts at times and the Romans never took kindly to invasions from beyond their borders. They were well known for storming of into Germania to thump the locals in retalition for attacks or even putting down Barabarian forces before they grouped for an attack. No reasons then why the Romans wouldn't get on a few ships and give the locals a thrashing. The romans had a very large atlantic fleet to accomodate these action, It made its living attacking pirates all the way out to Iceland at least once and sailed often out round the west of Ireland, to the North of Scotland and even into the Baltic and landed in Scandanavia on trade or exploration. No reason then that a fleet this seaworthy couldn't make it to the Americas by design or accident (this is a personal assumption though and not my lectureres)
 
You mention Romans in Iceland, Wowbagger. Would you please post your sources for that one? I'm interested and would like to follow it up.

On the topic of politics getting in the way of research, see my post on the Masada thread about how native people in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand have been trying to call the shots on archeology out of a fear that their political position may be undercut if it were ever to be shown that they were "just another group of invaders".

In particular, the case I was closest to was the effort by aboriginal people to get the anomalous Kow Swamp (near Kerang in Northern Victoria, Australia) human remains back underground before anyone could do thorough DNA tests on them. They succeeded too! :(
 
Ultima Thule (most likely iceland) - An island six days North West of Orkney. Ultima Thule means most northern land and was discovered by Pytheas in 4bc.
 
Sorry, I don't have any references on Romans in Iceland. I only got that bit from a guest lecturer at university. He mentioned it in relation to the Romans Atlantic fleet. I'm assuming that some Roman artifacts exist there or sufficiently reliable records by Roman writers on visit(s) to Iceland
 
Didn't the romans usually write down about stuff they had invaded? You'd think that someone would have thought to mention that they had invaded ireland.
 
Fascinating stuff, Wowbagger! IMO it would be quite surprising if the Romans hadn't made it to Ireland.

Has any excavation at all been done on these sites?

Has Richard Warner written anything that has been published about this?

Carole
 
Bump! I have split off the 'Egyptians in Oz' stuff to a new thread in this same forum: it seems interesting enough to deserve its own thread.
 
There is rumoured to be another fortified camp just north of Athy Co. Kildare on the banks of the river Barrow. It is likely to have been one of the highest points of navigation for the river in those times.

Check this link at Blather - Romans in Ireland, some interesting stuff there.

LD
 
Yeah,like that site. Telling alot of the Irish they're British is about as insulting you can be. Its like telling the Scots that they're English, Canadians they're Americans or trying to point out that the Swiss are just a group of Italians, French and Germans that they've only came together in the interests of making money and are not an actual nationality.
 
Oh dear! The Irish reaction to the ST article rather reminds me of American reactions to posts on the 'Iraqi Propaganda' (and other) threads.

A strong sensitivity to perceived criticism, apparently, even if none was intended.

Am I making things worse? Probably (in the eyes of some), so I'll shut up now! :(

BUT - the Blather site, despite beng a load of waffle, did make the point that there has been NO excavation of the apparent Roman fort, so really there are very few facts to discuss sensibly.
 
rynner,

Here's a shovel if you'd like to dig yourself a little deeper. :)
 
rynner said:
BUT - the Blather site, despite beng a load of waffle, did make the point that there has been NO excavation of the apparent Roman fort, so really there are very few facts to discuss sensibly.
Click to expand...

It's a little known fact that evidence of waffle-making was found during the excavation, suggesting that Ireland had been invaded by a grang of marauding Belgians.

In fact, they've left a Flemish dialect - Yola - in the southeast of the country.
 
Its in Terry Dearys excellent `Horrible Histories` series, pub by Scholastic.

Either Rotten Romans or the Celts one.

Ill try to find my copy but am busy
 
There was a report a few years back about a possible Roman fort on the coast North of Dublin. Also some Roman artifacts have been found during excavations on the Hill of Tara. Can't see any reason why Romans should not have been here, a population or significant number of visitors at least. Wasn't there some Roman map of Ireland? I am sure I have seen a copy of one.

Until last week it was believed that the Vikings never had any settlements in Cork. Recent discoveries have roundly disproved that.

What always had a Roman tinge to me was the story about the 5 roads radiating outwards from Tara. Everyone knows this story but I don't know if any excavations have been done on them, or even if anyone knows to what extent they might relate to modern roads.

Speaking of roads, I reckon it is only modern road building and industrial development that has led to any decent digs in Ireland at all. Until recent years there was only the Wetland Archaelogy unit and a bit of work going on in Dublin and Longford. Not the fault of archaelogists, usual lack of funding and interest by government.
 
There's no question that Roman artifacts made it to Ireland. The issue remains as to whether they arrived via invasion, trade, or transport at some later (post-Roman) time.
 
Bejasus was a well-known Romano-Irish figure.
 
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