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Swifty

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It is not "morganatic". There was a hoo hah at the time that people would "never accept Camilla as Queen" mainly from people who had not understood that the whole basis of the monarchy is that you don't get a choice. The rules of succession exist, whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

There were never going to be any offspring of the marriage. Camilla was 57 at the time of the wedding and unlikely to be of child bearing age.

Assuming Charles ascends to the throne, Camilla will be Queen Consort and assuming he dies before her, she will become Queen Dowager. That's how it works whether the consort is the first or second spouse, and whether they are popular and attractive, or not.

The fact that some people do not like Camilla and the fact that, even in this day and age, some apparently still choose to define a woman by her looks, are irrelevant. If Charles' first marriage had continued and Diana had lived, she would in due course have become Queen Consort and then, on Charles' prior death, Queen Dowager: exactly the same.

It was never on the cards for either Diana or Camilla to become Queen Regnant — just as the late Queen Mother was "Queen Elizabeth" but not "the second", and became Queen Dowager and Queen Mother when her daughter ascended to the throne.

Personally, although not a royalist, I have a lot of respect for Camilla. I also think she looked radiant on her wedding day. Given a choice between being snowed in for a weekend in a pub with Diana or Camilla, I would choose Camilla every time because I bet she can hold an interesting conversation, is resourceful, and knows some dirty jokes.
Before he was King, our Edward the 7th had Camilla's grandmother as his mistress, no joke.
 

Tunn11

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I guess it's obvious that I don't!

I'm a Socialist Republican who takes sides in Royal squabbles!

I'd like to see Harry as King.
And Queen Meghan :eek:? I guess that's as good a way as any to ensure a republic.
 

gordonrutter

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So Charles and Camilla could be closely related!
It was Camilla’s great grandmother and Charles great great grandfather. If he did father a child to her that would be Sonia, Camilla’s grandmother. This would make Charles and Camilla half second cousins once removed. Not particularly closely related. I’ve dated closer, my mums cousins daughter. If only someone like Maximus Otter had posted a handy chart to show what relation she would have been!
 

gordonrutter

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It was Camilla’s great grandmother and Charles great great grandfather. If he did father a child to her that would be Sonia, Camilla’s grandmother. This would make Charles and Camilla half second cousins once removed. Not particularly closely related. I’ve dated closer, my mums cousins daughter. If only someone like Maximus Otter had posted a handy chart to show what relation she would have been!
Second cousin apparently.
 

Yithian

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The Prince of Wales looks absolutely rocking here in his Scottish military uniform. He should be striding across a battlefield with a Webley in hand!

FEPCV_6WUAgDWLJ.jpeg.jpg
 

escargot

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The Prince of Wales looks absolutely rocking here in his Scottish military uniform. He should be striding across a battlefield with a Webley in hand!

View attachment 48128
Not one of those medals or honours was hard-earned or anything special. They are either regular service awards that all military personnel get, commemorative tat or presents off his Mum.

Now as you'll know I'm no Royalist and am particularly disapproving of Prince Andrew.

However, Andrew did serve in the Falklands as a helicopter pilot, undertaking the same duties as other officers and actually, to use the technical phrase, getting shot at.
He was in personal danger while Charlie would have been cutting ribbons and sneaking round behind Diana's back to shag Camilla.

Andrew helped save many British servicemen's lives in the Falklands, both in rescue and evacuation missions and actual combat.
If he hadn't shown himself up so badly he'd've been a hundred times more worthy of laying the Cenotaph wreath instead of the Queen than Charles.

I bet there were sailors whom HRH helped drag from a watery grave thinking this about Andrew yesterday.
 

Ascalon

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Why should he and why would William necessarily be known as King William?
Well, to take this on at this stage of his life, given that he is already a relic of a bygone age, might make him think twice. There are already shades of Edward VII about it, as Charles has waited all his life for this, but consequently, he is already an old man, though likely to be healthier than Edward was. It didn't do him much good.

Charles might look to the fact that he appears, from this distance at least, to have instilled his values of stewardship of the environment to his sons, and they are both known for their devotion to duty, so he might just settled for a quite, though splendid, life and the let the young 'uns get on with it.

Maybe.
 

escargot

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Mountbatten was the only "royal" who had a chestful of earned medals.
Nah, they too were regular service or ceremonial. He had no medals for individual or outstanding gallantry.

Here is a discussion of them from the LordMountbatten.com website:

Orders & Decorations

It is well documented that Mountbatten had a great personal pleasure from accepting honours and decorations, or wearing as many of them as possible at every event and function where appropriate and often when not appropriate.

An example of this was the wedding of Princess Margaret (1930-2002) to Sir Antony Armstrong-Jones, 1st Earl of Snowdon (1930-2017) when he wore full dress uniform of an Admiral, despite all the other guests wearing morning dress.

Frequently Mountbatten would accept foreign honours despite being told by UK Government Ministers not to and he would circumnavigate the usual official channels by going direct to Queen Elizabeth II (1926(1952- ) rather than taking instructions from bureaucrats within the Foreign & Commonwealth Office.

etc
 

ramonmercado

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Nah, they too were regular service or ceremonial. He had no medals for individual or outstanding gallantry.

Here is a discussion of them from the LordMountbatten.com website:

Orders & Decorations

Well he did get the DSO plus a few other war medals, i wasn't talking about those preposterous orders!

The Distinguished Service Order (D.S.O.) & Mountbatten's Campaign, Commemorative & Service Medals - including: The British War Medal (WWI), The Victory Medal (WWI), The 1939-1945 Star (WWII), The Atlantic Star (WWII), The Africa Star (WWII), The Burma Star (WWII), The Italy Star (WWII), The Defence Medal (WWII), The War Medal 1939-1945 (WWII), The Naval General Service Medal, The Distinguished Service Medal (USA), The Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (USA), Croix de Geurre 1939-1945 (France).


He did have a competition with Monty though

Although Mountbatten took his honours seriously, he did have a semi-joking rivalry with Field Marshal The Rt Hon Sir Bernard Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein (1887-1976). Talking about his own medal ribbons, he once said that Montgomery would count Mountbatten's medals saying - "I don't know whether he thinks I've popped in one or two that I'm not entitled to, but he usually asks whether I've had any more lately" - however Montgomery did indeed have more medal ribbons!

 

ramonmercado

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He has a DSO.

I might be able to dig out the award citation...

Found these:

Mentioned in Despatches - for courage initiative and devotion to duty (Gazette 9/8/40).
Awarded DSO for outstanding zeal, patience and cheefulness - Gaz Supp 21.3.41
Mentioned in Despatches for good service and devotion to duty. CW 16349/42.
Awarded Military Cross (Second Class) conferred by the King of the Hellenes in recognition of services in the Battle of Crete
Gazette 10.4.45. Awarded KCB for distinguished service as Supreme Allied Commander, South East Asia
Gazette 5.11.46. Awarded Grand Cross (Military) of the Order of George I. bestowed by His Majesty King George of the Hellenes for services during the war

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk...anscripts/service_records/navalofficer_sr.htm
 

Yithian

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He has a DSO.

I might be able to dig out the award citation...

I don't have the navy paperwork, but the award appears genuine and in the face of the enemy.


Monty definitely wore medals he was not entitled to, but he was also entitled to a very large number anyway!
 

escargot

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Well he did get the DSO plus a few other war medals, i wasn't talking about those preposterous orders!

The Distinguished Service Order (D.S.O.) & Mountbatten's Campaign, Commemorative & Service Medals - including: The British War Medal (WWI), The Victory Medal (WWI), The 1939-1945 Star (WWII), The Atlantic Star (WWII), The Africa Star (WWII), The Burma Star (WWII), The Italy Star (WWII), The Defence Medal (WWII), The War Medal 1939-1945 (WWII), The Naval General Service Medal, The Distinguished Service Medal (USA), The Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (USA), Croix de Geurre 1939-1945 (France).


He did have a competition with Monty though

Although Mountbatten took his honours seriously, he did have a semi-joking rivalry with Field Marshal The Rt Hon Sir Bernard Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein (1887-1976). Talking about his own medal ribbons, he once said that Montgomery would count Mountbatten's medals saying - "I don't know whether he thinks I've popped in one or two that I'm not entitled to, but he usually asks whether I've had any more lately" - however Montgomery did indeed have more medal ribbons!

Yup, but those service medals are earned by turning up and being a good soldier, not outstanding bravery.* We don't see any Military Crosses there. Most of Mountbatten's gongs were like courtesy titles.

*Not to disparage the courage and dignity of the general personnel, of course. Thousands serve their country without any expectation of exceptional reward when any could be called upon to make great sacrifice, and many have been. They are the people we wear our poppies for.
 

escargot

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More interestingly, who blew Mountbatten up? I remember his assassination very well indeed and may have to watch the documentaries again.

The official line is that it was the IRA but there are rumours about there being CIA involvement.
 

Floyd1

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Not one of those medals or honours was hard-earned or anything special. They are either regular service awards that all military personnel get, commemorative tat or presents off his Mum.

Now as you'll know I'm no Royalist and am particularly disapproving of Prince Andrew.

However, Andrew did serve in the Falklands as a helicopter pilot, undertaking the same duties as other officers and actually, to use the technical phrase, getting shot at.
He was in personal danger while Charlie would have been cutting ribbons and sneaking round behind Diana's back to shag Camilla.

Andrew helped save many British servicemen's lives in the Falklands, both in rescue and evacuation missions and actual combat.
If he hadn't shown himself up so badly he'd've been a hundred times more worthy of laying the Cenotaph wreath instead of the Queen than Charles.

I bet there were sailors whom HRH helped drag from a watery grave thinking this about Andrew yesterday.
I could never believe Andrew as a marine though. Marines are chiseled jaw types (like gordonrutter), but Andrew was always a chubby-chops.
 

ramonmercado

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More interestingly, who blew Mountbatten up? I remember his assassination very well indeed and may have to watch the documentaries again.

The official line is that it was the IRA but there are rumours about there being CIA involvement.

Well it was the IRA but their hand may have been guided. Totally bizarre, OTT and murderous way of taking him out. To do it in such a complicated way does smack of CIA involvement.
 

escargot

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Well it was the IRA but their hand may have been guided. Totally bizarre, OTT and murderous way of taking him out. To do it in such a complicated way does smack of CIA involvement.
Yup, the family's bodyguards were stood down at some point and the boat was left unattended and not searched beforehand.
Mountbatten was determined to have a low-key presence on his holidays. That let him down in the end.
 

Frideswide

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At this stage, do you think Charles might pass the crown direct to William?
Is that possible?

Though for many this side of the pond, there are very negative connotations for a 'king billy' that have nothing to do with the current William.

yes, there's a lot of people in Scotland who would react with a wince scaling up to banners and marches!
 

Swifty

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So being a Royal Courtesan is the family business?
Apparently. It was the Mrs who learned this and, you'll love this bit, one of the many places they used to hook up was at a hotel in Cromer. I'll try to find some links to back this all up before we piss off a mod.

edit: great grandmother to Camilla sorry .. Alice Keppel ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Keppel

aalicekepple001.jpg
 
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Swifty

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Didn't they meet up regularly in Cromer?
So it's told. Virginia Court Hotel still stands (Last place I saw my Mum a few years ago so I have a bit of an emotional connection to the place). It was built as an Edwardian guest house so their website states which also boasts it was built to get Prince Edward to go there when he wasn't playing golf at the nearby Links. I haven't been able to re find the specific 'Ed & Alice used to party there' stuff yet but I've read it in old print. Camilla's great grandma anyway.
 

escargot

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