• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Russian Doomsday Sect (Pyotr Kuznetsov; Cave Habitation)

Timble2

Imaginary Person
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
6,047
Location
In a Liminal Zone
I wonder if the Russian authorities will handle this as well as the US did with the Branch Davidians...

And if the world's not ending until next May, why not leave it until a bit closer to the date before going to ground, that way your supplies would last longer after doomsday..

Russian doomsday sect threatens mass suicide


Luke Harding in Moscow
Thursday November 15, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


To locals in the Russian village of Nikolskoye they were simply a group of eccentric Christian believers. And when 29 members of the sect abruptly vanished last month, villagers assumed they had packed up and gone.
In fact, the religious doomsday cult had taken up residence in a remote underground cave. They had decided to barricade themselves inside until May 2008 - the date when their spiritual leader told them the world was going to end.

Today, authorities were attempting to talk to cult members by bellowing through a ventilation shaft cut into the cave's roof. So far, however, the members - who include 25 adults and four children, one of them a 16-month-old baby - have refused to emerge.
"They have covered the entrance and refuse to come out and are threatening to blow themselves up. They threaten to detonate a gas tank," an official in the local prosecutor's office said. "They say they are fine. They tell us to go away," another added.

The sect members are hiding out in a snow-covered hillside in the Penza region of central Russia, about 60 miles from the town of Penza.

The chief prosecutor of the region's Bekovsky district, Alvetina Volchkova, said they moved in at the end of October.

"I talked to them last Thursday," she told the Guardian today. "The temperature outside was freezing. They told me they were fine and that the temperature inside the cave was plus 17C. They've lit candles and paraffin lamps. I asked if I could come in and have a look around but they wouldn't let me in.

"They don't have a name as such. They don't regard themselves as a sect but refer to themselves as 'the chosen ones'. They also say that they are representatives of the Russian Orthodox Church."

The police had sealed off the area and were trying to negotiate, she added.

"No-one wants to take on the responsibility of provoking them ... because our information is that there are children among them,' a police spokeswoman told Reuters.

The cave is two miles from the modest tin-roofed prayer hall where sect members used to gather to sing songs. Elders began secretly preparing the cave last month - bringing in supplies of gas and kerosene, as well as half a tonne of honey and a lot of jam, locals said.

The sect's leader is Pyotr Kuznetsov - a divorced 43-year-old architect from Belarus. Kutnetsov travelled across Belarus and Russia, spreading his message of apocalyptic doom, before settling in the village 18 months ago, locals said.

Several dozen believers followed him. They moved into abandoned houses, refusing to use electricity. "They are simple Christians," a local priest, Father Georgy, told NTV television. "They say: 'The church is doing a bad job, the end of the world is coming soon and we are all saving ourselves.'"

After decades of state suppression, the Russian Orthodox Church is now enjoying a revival. But many Russians and ex-Soviet nationals have also fallen under the sway of local and foreign sects. Some even refuse passports and taxpayers' numbers, claiming the figures conceal "satanic" meanings.

However, the tradition of religious dissent in Russia and defiance of secular authority goes back much further. In the seventeenth century, one group, the Old Believers, founded their own church in protest at reforms to orthodox rituals. To escape persecution, many settled in extremely lonely communities.

The cave in Penza was discovered after the daughter of one of the missing cult members complained to the local prosecutor, Russian media said. Police then arrested Kuznetsov - who led investigators to the entrance. When they tried to approach together with another priest gunshots were fired in the air, NTV reported.

"Kuznetsov is their spiritual leader. He told them that the world would end in May and that the only way for them to save themselves was to go underground," Pavel Shishkin, a reporter with Komsomolskaya Pravda in Penza told the Guardian today. "They believed him. They've gone to sit it out."

Izvestiya newspaper yesterday reported that Kuznetsov suffered from schizophrenia and that in the last few months he had been sleeping in a coffin.

"He said his followers should not be disturbed, that they are the chosen ones, and that no one else is allowed to get in the cave," a law enforcement officer told the paper.

Police and ambulances have sealed off the approach to the cave, which is scarcely visible from the outside and hidden by a sloping ravine. Relatives of cult members are expected to arrive at the scene shortly from Belarus and Ukraine to try and persuade their loved ones to give up. This may be tricky, however, as cult members have apparently taken a vow of silence.

Asked whether Russian special forces would storm the cave, Volchkova said: "For the moment the police are making sure that the situation is OK and under control."
 
Timble2 said:
I wonder if the Russian authorities will handle this as well as the US did with the Branch Davidians...

If they're a mass suicide cult then wouldn't they be pleased if they were all shot or blown up by the authorities? They're planning to go anyway and they'd have a martyr's death...
 
They seem terribly confused to me - 'we're doing this to survive the apocalypse ... and if you try and stop us we'll kill ourselves!'. Um, OK. Still, half a ton of honey!
 
If it's their primary sweetener, half a ton (about 1,000 pounds) of honey isn't really that much. Anything you buy in bulk for the long haul looks ridiculously large compared to the amounts you buy routinely at the grocery store.

Heaven's Gate and Jim Jones have a lot to answer for. In ages past, if a doomsday cult holed up waiting for the end of the world, all the authorities had to do was stand by and wait for them to come out feeling disillusioned and spouting excuses. Now everybody expects a mass suicide - even though it's statistically rare - and they get antsy and start increasing the pressure, making a disaster more likely rather than less. No mention is made of weapons stockpiles or suicidal rhetoric, and in the normal course of things nothing's had time to go wrong inside - unless the people outside behave in a way calculated to trigger paranoid responses. They need somebody monitoring the situation who can make it easy to come out and not intimidate people into a defensive posture. It doesn't take much to create a dangerous us/them dichotomy that leaves them feeling trapped.

If I ever lead a doomsday cult, I'm going to call my holing-up period "a retreat" and use commercially-available retreat centers. More comfortable, less threatening to the mainstream. More expensive, but money is no object at the end of the world.
 
1,000 lb of honey is 453,592 grams. In a level teaspoon, such as you'd use to sweeten a cup of coffee or add to a dessert or breakfast, there are about 15 grams of honey (I've just tried it, maybe my spoons are bigger or smaller than other posters', I'd like to hear more).

Rounding down to allow for size discrepancies, this equates to a little more than 30,000 teaspoons of honey.

Allowing that the members may be having 2 cups of coffee or tea a day, and sweetening it to allow for nutrition, and also maybe eating bread and honey, probably about 2 tsp per slice, three times a day, we're on a total of 8 tsp of honey per member, per day. We could round up to allow for trickling, residue being washed off and sweet teeth, but bear in mind that not everyone likes sweet coffee.

So 8 x 29 is 232 spoons a day, and 30,000/232 is a little over 129.

So if the cult members only eat the honey, it'll last them 129 days. Nov-May is six months, so they're going to need a little more honey to be able to survive, or tap into these mysterious reserves of "lots of jam"
 
Can you imagine the conversation...

"Omigod, we've run out of honey."
"Don't panic it's not the end of the world....Erm, no, sorry, it is."
 
"Don't panic it's not the end of the world....Erm, no, sorry, it is."

when the jehovah's witnesses had one of their 'ends of the world' back in the 70s, they came round to borrow more chairs from my ex-lodger's baptist church.

"when do we get them back" asked their pastor... they assured him it'd be the next day!
 
They may not get to sweeten their tea at all if they're using the honey in cooking, which is what I was thinking of. If they don't have sugar, they'll need to use the honey in their breads, to proof the yeast. It also has medicinal uses.

I don't think they have anything like enough, and the real danger is that they'll run out of supplies before May. But we obviously didn't get an accurate run-down of their supplies, just the things that struck the news reporter as significant or weird, or which witnesses happened to report seeing go in.
 
Honey is a foodstuff that keeps almost indefinatley

You can make mead with it..have they yeast?
 
PeniG said:
If they don't have sugar, they'll need to use the honey in their breads, to proof the yeast.

Hopefully, they would have had the foresight to bring in a simple sourdough starter to leaven their bread. This would lessen the impact on the overall honey reserve to the tune of a staggering 1800 teaspoonfuls over a six month period.
 
There's also the option that some of the cult members are honey fetishists who joined up when they saw the honey truck being loaded.

"Who is this new couple?"

"Oh they say that they also believe that the world will end in May. I wanted to give them a pamphlet but they say they already know all about it, they didn't seem to care too much. Anyway I've put them in charge of the honey, they were quite specific about that"

Next thing you know, pubes in your coffee, "why do you smell like a bee, where has all the honey gone, why do you need to do your laundry so frequently", etc.
 
As reported in FT231:page4.

World doesn't end, Doomsday cult gives up

From correspondents in Moscow
March 30, 2008 07:36am


"SEVEN female members of a Russian cult have come out of the cave where they have been awaiting the end of the world, but 28 people are still underground, Russian media reported today.

The doomsday cult members have been barricaded in a cave dug out of a hillside in the Penza region of central Russia since October.

They have been refusing to come out until the end of the world, which they predict will happen in May.

A local official said the seven women had been persuaded to emerge after Pyotr Kuznetsov, the leader of their cult who is undergoing court-ordered psychiatric treatment, was brought to the scene to negotiate with them. "

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 02,00.html
 
We have a thread on this lot somewhere. Glad to see the situation is winding down without any violence.
 
But with three-quarters of the cultists still bunkered underground it might be wise to put off the chicken census until May.
 
It's not over yet.....

Cult leader 'tried to kill himself'
April 05, 2008 01:51am

"THE leader of a Russian doomsday cult tried to kill himself after most of his followers abandoned a bunker where they had been awaiting the end of the world for five months, according to an official.
An ambulance rushed Pyotr Kuznetsov to hospital on Wednesday with serious head wounds but there was no immediate explanation for his injuries.

"The main theory being studied by investigators is an attempted suicide," a spokeswoman for the regional governor said.

Over the past six days, 24 members of the cult who had hidden in the bunker in the rural region of Penza since October abandoned their hide-out because melting snow and rain had weakened the mud structure, causing walls to collapse.

The 11 cult members still in the bunker are refusing to talk to officials trying to coax them out, the spokeswoman said.

"They have taken a vow of silence," she said. "They are all adults and have been warned about the threat to their lives from the collapsing walls."

Kuznetsov had declined to join his followers inside the bunker, stating that God had other work for him to do. He had been undergoing court-ordered psychiatric treatment."

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 02,00.html
 
Re: It's not over yet.....

Kuznetsov had declined to join his followers inside the bunker, stating that God had other work for him to do.

The main job would seem to be staying the heck out of collapsing underground bunkers.
 
Further Updates!!!!

Russian Doomsday Sect Won't Leave Cave
Monday, April 28, 2008

"Members of a Russian doomsday sect holed up in a cave on an island in the Bering Sea now say they plan to emerge June 14. The sect members were originally supposed to have left the cave Monday but for unexplained reasons they didn't appear at a gathering of local residents and journalists, ITAR-TASS reported.

Last year, 35 people fearing the end of the world was approaching went down into the cave, located in the settlement of Nikolskoye on Bering Island.

In March, 24 sect members left the cave but the rest stayed inside.

Authorities are investigating the sect's leader on charges of creating an association that encroaches on the minds and rights of citizens and instigates religious strife."

Article:
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sect ... le=3610690
 
Last doomsday cult members give up
May 16, 2008 04:39pm

"THE last surviving members of a Russian doomsday cult have emerged from a cave where they had been holed up since last year awaiting the end of the world, Interfax news agency reported today.
The agency quoted local official Vladimir Provotorov saying that they decided to leave because there was "a real threat of poisoning from toxic corpse fumes'' of two deceased cult members rotting in the cave."

Article:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 02,00.html


/"Toxic Corpse Fumes"....great name for a Death Metal Band
 
The Kuznetsov sect was widely labeled the "True Russian Orthodox Church." The group referred to itself as "Heavenly Jerusalem."

After leaving the cave, most of the sect members left the village, except for one family. Several people moved to a deaf village in Belarus. Vasily Nedogon, head of the family remaining in Nikolskoye, in 2012 continued to live with his wife and three children without electricity and passports; he still waited that the End time will come soon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Russian_Orthodox_Church

See Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Kuznetsov
 
Back
Top