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Saddam Hussein's Trial Thread

But I have a real problem with the argument that because the West has supported dictators like Saddam - not to mention the Mujahideen who would go on to become the Taliban - it's somehow all "our fault" and so the individuals who tortued, gassed and killed thousands of their own people should not be held to account.

Regardless of one's views on the death penalty, is anyone *seriously* arguing that Saddam should not have been held to account for what he did?
 
Nah, Id just like to see Bush et al being hung beside him
 
Quake42 said:
But I have a real problem with the argument that because the West has supported dictators like Saddam - not to mention the Mujahideen who would go on to become the Taliban - it's somehow all "our fault" and so the individuals who tortued, gassed and killed thousands of their own people should not be held to account.

Regardless of one's views on the death penalty, is anyone *seriously* arguing that Saddam should not have been held to account for what he did?

What an absurd thing to say. It's obvious Saddam, and dictators like him, knew what he was doing, it's just that he wasn't the only one to blame and many of those who assisted in the mass killings are getting away scot free.
 
gncxx said:
Quake42 said:
But I have a real problem with the argument that because the West has supported dictators like Saddam - not to mention the Mujahideen who would go on to become the Taliban - it's somehow all "our fault" and so the individuals who tortued, gassed and killed thousands of their own people should not be held to account.

Regardless of one's views on the death penalty, is anyone *seriously* arguing that Saddam should not have been held to account for what he did?

What an absurd thing to say. It's obvious Saddam, and dictators like him, knew what he was doing, it's just that he wasn't the only one to blame and many of those who assisted in the mass killings are getting away scot free.

are you referring to iraqi officials or the officials of western powers here?
 
This is a terrible thing for me to say, because I opposed the war, marched against it, and I generally oppose the death penalty in all circumstances...


But in this case, I say hang the fucker. Show him as much mercy as he showed his fellow countrymen, which in this case is none at all.
 
Well, I'm opposed to the death penalty in the usual course of events - for "normal" crimes, including murder, I don't think two wrongs make a right. But, as far as I'm concerned genocide isn't a "normal" crime. Industrial scale extermination of people goes far beyond crime, and as such I'd say he deserves to die. The rest of his natural life in prison isn't going to give the likes of Saddam, or any other megalomaniac, a sudden attack of repentance. You can't rehabilitate that degree of wrong-ness.
 
I can see the argument of giving Saddam a taste of his own medicine, but I don't see the point of descending to his level. We're supposed to be better than he is. Better to let his life humiliatingly dwindle in a cell than to allow him to march proudly to the gallows and contribute to his standing amongst his followers and dangerous fanatics across the world.
 
ted_bloody_maul said:
are you referring to iraqi officials or the officials of western powers here?

Could well be both.
 
I say put him in prison for life and once a month let the people come and throw rotten tomatoes and eggs at him. Now that's humiliation.

As far as the death penalty goes , it has been shown by numerous studies that it is not a deterrent.
 
I don't want the death penalty for Saddam as a "deterrent" [deterrent for what, future dictators...?], I never want death penaty as a deterrent for anyone. The reason I want to see SH hanging is simply to remove him from society for good. Even in jail he will have some appeal to his followers. He must be wiped out and life will go on. I don't care if he suffers,I don't care if he doesn't. Just get rid of him.
 
Killing him will simply make him a martyr to his supporters. Imprisoning him in Iraq is problematic, as there is no stability there - if there is a full-on civil war and no Western forces there either at some future point in time, he could be reinstated. So perhaps the best option is to imprison him somewhere outside Iraq. Others who've been found guilty of crimes against humanity have been imprisonned outside their own country, so it could also be done with him. Withering away in some prison for the rest of his life, fading out of the limelight he's enjoyed even at his trial, is IMHO much better than killing him.
 
I am opposed to the death penalty as I believe it solves nothing and the fact that people are continually found guilty of murder and in this case genocide proves it is no deterrent.

But personally I think this situation warrants the death sentence as a means of closure for a generation of people who have suffered under this tyrant.
I understand the points of making him a martyr but I have to disagree with the idea of a life sentence in exile as there is a possibility that his remaining supporters could carry out acts of terror or take hostages at a later date in an attempt to secure his release.
 
Yeah, because Iraq will be so peaceful once he's gone...
 
jimv1 said:
I understand the points of making him a martyr but I have to disagree with the idea of a life sentence in exile as there is a possibility that his remaining supporters could carry out acts of terror or take hostages at a later date in an attempt to secure his release.
Agreed - to his supporters, who are many, where there's life there's hope.

How long was Mandela incarcerated? And did his supporters "drift away"?
 
But who would let Saddam out if he was imprisoned? He's not a young man anymore, the current Iraqi authorities would rather forget about him and quite a few leaders of his cause, if they were ever really on his side, have risen to take his place. Executing him is the equivalent of poking the angry tiger with a stick.
 
Well, initially they weren't ever going to let Mandela out, either.

I know what you're saying, though. I'm only *just* on the "string the bugger up" side of the discussion. I may change my mind yet.
 
stuneville said:
Agreed - to his supporters, who are many, where there's life there's hope.

Not really - his supporters are in a win-win situation. If he dies, they have a martyr. If he lives, they can perhaps carry on doing things in his name. Neither works in any long-term sense.

This is different to Mandela because the general consensus was that his incaceration was a bad thing - you're not really going to get the same sort of response from so many people WRT Saddam Hussein. And Mandela had, of course, not been formally tried and sentenced for crimes against humanity - if he had, and clearly so, his supporters would have been few and far between.
 
Jerry_B said:
Not really - his supporters are in a win-win situation. If he dies, they have a martyr.

In normal times this would be true, but in bush's Iraq the whole martyr concept has lost value, there being so many, especially in one so flawed as saddam.
 
Jerry_B said:
And Mandela had, of course, not been formally tried and sentenced for crimes against humanity - if he had, and clearly so, his supporters would have been few and far between.

Depends - if Mandela had been subject to a trial such as Saddam's (which, as I've said before, even Amnesty International don't believe was entirely fair), would his supporters really have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it?
 
crunchy5 said:
In normal times this would be true, but in bush's Iraq the whole martyr concept has lost value, there being so many, especially in one so flawed as saddam.

I doubt that his supporters would see it in that way.
 
WhistlingJack said:
Depends - if Mandela had been subject to a trial such as Saddam's (which, as I've said before, even Amnesty International don't believe was entirely fair), would his supporters really have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it?

No, not the really dedicated hardcore. The same would be the case with Saddam IMHO.
 
My cynical prediction for Saddam Hussein; he won't make it to being executed...either the stress of incarceration, trial and appeal will be too much for him & he'll die of natural causes, or he'll somehow gain access to lethal drugs (is he on any medication ATM?), and commit suicide...
 
Jerry_B said:
crunchy5 said:
In normal times this would be true, but in bush's Iraq the whole martyr concept has lost value, there being so many, especially in one so flawed as saddam.

I doubt that his supporters would see it in that way.

Perhaps you're right after all we've done our damnedest to make his reign look like some sort of golden era and that ain't easy.
 
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/

Dalai Lama calls for sparing Saddam Hussein's life
13/11/2006 15:21

MUMBAI (Reuters) - The Dalai Lama urged Iraqi authorities on Monday to spare the life of Saddam Hussein, sentenced to death this month, saying the guilty should get a chance to reform.

A U.S.-backed Iraqi court found Saddam guilty of crimes against humanity and sentenced him to death for his role in the killing of 148 Shi’ite villagers after a failed assassination bid in 1982.

"The death penalty, although fulfils a preventive function, is clearly a form of revenge," a statement from the Dalai Lama’s office in India said.

"However horrible the act committed, His Holiness believes that everyone has the potential to improve and correct themselves.

Human rights groups and legal experts have called Saddam’s year-long trial, during which three defence lawyers were killed, deeply flawed. He may have an outside chance of escaping execution through an appeals process which could take months.

Tibet’s spiritual leader, who lives in exile in India, praised the European Union for opposing the death penalty to Saddam.

The verdict has satisfied countries the former Iraqi dictator invaded but caused resentment amongst some Arabs who see him as the victim of a U.S.-inspired show trial.

"His Holiness hopes that in this case, as in all others, human life will be respected and spared," the statement said.

Hope springs eternal...
 
filcee said:
My cynical prediction for Saddam Hussein; he won't make it to being executed...either the stress of incarceration, trial and appeal will be too much for him & he'll die of natural causes, or he'll somehow gain access to lethal drugs (is he on any medication ATM?), and commit suicide...

And then you'll probably get all sorts of conspiracy theories springing up... ;)
 
Jerry_B said:
filcee said:
My cynical prediction for Saddam Hussein; he won't make it to being executed...either the stress of incarceration, trial and appeal will be too much for him & he'll die of natural causes, or he'll somehow gain access to lethal drugs (is he on any medication ATM?), and commit suicide...

And then you'll probably get all sorts of conspiracy theories springing up... ;)
See my post on the Predictions for 2007 thread...
 
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