Satanism

segovius

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
Muslim calls to prayer of Arabic slavers, or drunken sea shanties about European sailors and their whores, probably sounded about the same to the young, African, human merchandise...
Err...the point is that the human merchandise in question were Muslims....

So probably the call to prayer didn't really sound the same to them as a drunken sea-shanty...
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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segovius said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Muslim calls to prayer of Arabic slavers, or drunken sea shanties about European sailors and their whores, probably sounded about the same to the young, African, human merchandise...
Err...the point is that the human merchandise in question were Muslims....

So probably the call to prayer didn't really sound the same to them as a drunken sea-shanty...
Or, the valuable property of Muslims. Moot point.

I believe the Muslims down in those parts of Africa still keep and deal in slaves.

http://ethiopundit.blogspot.com/2004/08/21st-century-slavery.html

Do they differentiate? Worshippers, or goods and chattels?

A good sea shanty was probably just as memorable as a call to prayer, any day. On a long sea voyage, just as intrusive.
 

segovius

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
segovius said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Muslim calls to prayer of Arabic slavers, or drunken sea shanties about European sailors and their whores, probably sounded about the same to the young, African, human merchandise...
Err...the point is that the human merchandise in question were Muslims....

So probably the call to prayer didn't really sound the same to them as a drunken sea-shanty...
Or, the valuable property of Muslims. Moot point.
Right...Muslims are the valuable property of Muslims...

I got to get up to speed on this rationality thing....

I believe the Muslims down in those parts of Africa still keep and deal in slaves.
Do you? I haven't read the Daily Mail's position or the BNP factsheet so can't comment on that one.

Do they differentiate? Worshippers, or goods and chattels?
Dunno - I only have access to the established academic sources - what do your sources say?

A good sea shanty was probably just as memorable as a call to prayer, any day. On a long sea voyage, just as intrusive.
Well, not everyone has your cultural perspective.....we're talking about savages remember so perhaps they didn't find it intrusive..maybe they were used to it being from the jungle with all those drums and all...

:roll:
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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segovius said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
...

Or, the valuable property of Muslims. Moot point.
Right...Muslims are the valuable property of Muslims...

I got to get up to speed on this rationality thing....

I believe the Muslims down in those parts of Africa still keep and deal in slaves.
Do you? I haven't read the Daily Mail's position or the BNP factsheet so can't comment on that one.

Do they differentiate? Worshippers, or goods and chattels?
Dunno - I only have access to the established academic sources - what do your sources say?

...
Widen the range of your sources, I would say.
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/slavetrade.htm

FIGHTING SLAVERY TODAY:

The Modern West African Slave Trade


Recently, we have seen the revival of the once thriving slave trade routes across West Africa, after a lapse of 25 years. Slavers have reappeared following the old slave trade routes, except that trucks, jeeps and modern four-wheel drive vehicles and, on occasions, aircraft, have replaced the camels. The slavers often carry mobile telephones.

Some things, however, have not changed. Cunning, deceit, the use of drugs to subdue the children and the whip still remain part of the essential equipment of the professional slaver.

The trade involves most states in sub-Saharan West Africa.

The children are kidnapped or purchased for $20 - $70 each by slavers in poorer states, such as Benin and Togo, and sold into slavery in sex dens or as unpaid domestic servants for $350.00 each in wealthier oil-rich states, such as Nigeria and Gabon.

These children are bought and sold as slaves. They are denied an education, the chance to play or to use toys like other children, and the right to a future. Their lives are at the mercy of their masters, and suicide is often the only escape.

The material in this report is based on a Mission to West Africa by the Society's Secretary-General, supplemented by material from Cleophas Mally of WAO-Afrique.

...
 

segovius

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Pietro_Mercurios said:
segovius said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
...

Or, the valuable property of Muslims. Moot point.
Right...Muslims are the valuable property of Muslims...

I got to get up to speed on this rationality thing....

I believe the Muslims down in those parts of Africa still keep and deal in slaves.
Do you? I haven't read the Daily Mail's position or the BNP factsheet so can't comment on that one.

Do they differentiate? Worshippers, or goods and chattels?
Dunno - I only have access to the established academic sources - what do your sources say?

...
Widen the range of your sources, I would say.
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/slavetrade.htm

FIGHTING SLAVERY TODAY:

The Modern West African Slave Trade


Recently, we have seen the revival of the once thriving slave trade routes across West Africa, after a lapse of 25 years. Slavers have reappeared following the old slave trade routes, except that trucks, jeeps and modern four-wheel drive vehicles and, on occasions, aircraft, have replaced the camels. The slavers often carry mobile telephones.

Some things, however, have not changed. Cunning, deceit, the use of drugs to subdue the children and the whip still remain part of the essential equipment of the professional slaver.

The trade involves most states in sub-Saharan West Africa.

The children are kidnapped or purchased for $20 - $70 each by slavers in poorer states, such as Benin and Togo, and sold into slavery in sex dens or as unpaid domestic servants for $350.00 each in wealthier oil-rich states, such as Nigeria and Gabon.

These children are bought and sold as slaves. They are denied an education, the chance to play or to use toys like other children, and the right to a future. Their lives are at the mercy of their masters, and suicide is often the only escape.

The material in this report is based on a Mission to West Africa by the Society's Secretary-General, supplemented by material from Cleophas Mally of WAO-Afrique.

...
Brilliantly done! I tip my hat..

We go from on-topic research into origins of Blues etc to denigrating anything Islamic, sidestepping the topic and slapping down a 21st century example that has no relation to the issue.

You're pretty good at this internet arguing thing!

:D
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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segovius said:
...

Brilliantly done! I tip my hat..

We go from on-topic research into origins of Blues etc to denigrating anything Islamic, sidestepping the topic and slapping down a 21st century example that has no relation to the issue.

You're pretty good at this internet arguing thing!

:D
The Devil made me do it.
 

Twin_Star

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But the Satanic Bible seems to try to be contrary for the sake of it. And very cliquey too. It's all very "join us" and "let's be contrary together".
hmm, i re-read, sorry - re-skimmed - a copy only a few days ago (following reading this thread) and i didnt really get that impression. yes, given its counter-culture, yes given its dated a tad since he wrote it, and given there is emphasis on group workings, almost certainly in one of the CoS pylons LeVey visualised as springing up all over the world once his words had been written, disseminated and then eagerly taken up by massed hordes of spiritual/mental-shackle-removing followers, but he repeats pretty often if you want to do it on your own, thats as valid a route as any for most workings.

The stuff in there isnt especially original, you may as well read Levi's Transcendental Magic if you want a how-to of that sort, but im quite fond of it in a retro kind of way.
 

Tangaroa42

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Satan and his stuff

Old God was sitting on his Celestial throne one drab millenium and was feeling really glum listening to all the weary dirges his faithful. bum lickers were wailing about him.

God calls Gabriel over, "Hey Gabe, you got your Horn there ole Buddy?2,

Gabe looks at God sadly, "Yeah Boss, what you want?".

God looks up, "Play me some Blues, Gabe, I need a Lift"

Gabe shakes his head, waggles his drooping wings, "Sorry Boss, no can do, you "Bingoed" our best Blues player millions of years ago, remember??".

God shakes his head sadly, "Oh Yeah, Old Lucy baby, bum move on my part, I forgot. Tell you what Gabe, lets have some Tony Bennet instead." :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
 

OneWingedBird

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And interview with spokesman in a devil mask :lol:
 

Denibifru

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gncxx said:
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Satanism reminds me of a sort of unsuccessful TV series spin-off. The equivalent of, 'Joanie Loves Chachi', to Christianity's, 'Happy Days'. Mormonism being more like, the slightly more successful, even more off the wall, 'Happy Days', spin-off, 'Mork and Mindy'.
Ironic that Christianity is a spin-off from Judaism.
Not necessarily, Christianity is a continuation of Hebrewism, it is Judaism that is a spin off of Hebrewism. Christianity follows the Tanakh and the New Testament writers whereas Judaism follows the Pharisaical/Rabbinical order that had begun during the Babylonian captivity in which the Tanakh has been placed in a smaller role to the Talmud and other Jewish writings (post Babylon).
 

Bloodbeard

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There have been some great literary Lucifers, Bulgakov's 'The Master and Margarita' is tremendous, Bulgakov was a devout Christian yet still presents a deeply charismatic Old Nick, Nathaniel Hawthorne's 'Young Goodman Brown' is well worth a read, CS Lewis, also a devout Christian has a great dialogue between an apprentice and senior devil in 'The Screwtape Letters'. Fictional treatments of the old goat do tend to be sympathetic, funny there seems to be few literary treatments of God though, suppose we all love the villains.
 

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According to this youtuber, the reason Jim Carrey doesn't make so many films any more is because he sold his soul to Satan "sometime in the 90's" ... as you do .. strap on your seatbelts.

 

Mythopoeika

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He doesn't need the money. He is so wealthy he doesn't need to work.
Also, he has family and friends he wants to spend time with.
And his girlfriend died. I guess he's a bit depressed.

Nothing to do with the Devil.
 

GNC

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He doesn't need the money. He is so wealthy he doesn't need to work.
Also, he has family and friends he wants to spend time with.
And his girlfriend died. I guess he's a bit depressed.

Nothing to do with the Devil.
He's also being sued by the parents of the deceased girlfriend for causing her death with illegal medication. And according to that Andy Kaufman doc last year, believes he is living in a simulation, as in The Truman Show. Could be his brand just got toxic.
 

GNC

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Re: the above, the lawsuit against Carrey has been dropped, so that's a weight off his mind. Now to see if he can get another job...
 

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I was lucky to be able to listen to a lot of this broadcast while driving for work today - highly recommended podcast:

The story of the Devil

The Devil was as real as the sun and the moon to the people of England during the Middle Ages and early Renaissance.

Those who were thought to be possessed by him would display all manner of extraordinary behaviours, including vomiting pins and nails.

In this climate, exorcisms, rituals to rid a body or a place of the Devil, were commonplace.

This was also the era of widespread persecution of witches, mostly women, who were executed in their thousands right across England and Europe

Some of these witches even claimed to have sex with the devil.

Philip Almond is an Emeritus Professor of Religion at the University of Queensland.

He has spent his career exploring and writing about the history of the Devil, demonic possession, and witch trials.


http://www.abc.net.au/radio/sydney/programs/conversations/conversations-philip-almond/9386472


 

MetroGnome

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IMO pretentious bollocks is a pretty fair assessment of The Satanic Bible, it tries a bit too hard to be contrarian...
I tried to read it some years ago. Didn't get very far - it's mind-numbingly boring. Here's a long documentary about the CoS:


It's kind of fun, but then they give you an entire satanic ritual. I tried my best to sit through the whole thing, and couldn't. Utterly vapid, pretentious crapola if I've ever seen any.

There's actually a great deal of satanic ideas that I quite agree with. I'm very sympathetic towards their libertarian views. But I don't really see how the CoS is much more than a lonely hearts club for atheists. Of course, they might well actually agree: their whole point is that even atheists have a need for ritual and organization and a sense of belonging somewhere.

Or so they claim: I realize more and more that I actually belong nowhere, and that this suits me perfectly fine. Plus, I have a horror of rituals and hierarchies - perhaps I am actually more of a satanist than any of them. :)
 

Mythopoeika

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Of course, they might well actually agree: their whole point is that even atheists have a need for ritual and organization and a sense of belonging somewhere.
As an atheist, I associate 'ritual' with belief and religion. So I have no need for rituals.
 

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As an atheist, I associate 'ritual' with belief and religion. So I have no need for rituals.
There are atheist/humanist funeral services though where a certain type of ritual is gone through. Same goes with marriages.
 
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MetroGnome

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There are atheist/humanist funeral services though where a certain type of ritual is gone through. Same goes with marriages.
Yup. I don't know of any atheists who just drop grandma into a hole and walk off, or eat her (why waste perfectly good protein?). Everyone has rituals, and these very often take on a religious appearance, even when they are not overtly religious.

That said, personally I detest rituals, or at least elaborate ones. The thought of being unceremoniously dumped when I croak doesn't disturb me in the least. :)
 

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Yup. I don't know of any atheists who just drop grandma into a hole and walk off, or eat her (why waste perfectly good protein?). Everyone has rituals, and these very often take on a religious appearance, even when they are not overtly religious.

That said, personally I detest rituals, or at least elaborate ones. The thought of being unceremoniously dumped when I croak doesn't disturb me in the least. :)
I'm donating my body to TCD's medical school, they can feed any leftovers to the Triffids at the School of Botany.
 

AlchoPwn

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And according to that Andy Kaufman doc last year, believes he is living in a simulation, as in The Truman Show. Could be his brand just got toxic.
Actually Simulationism has a long pedigree in philosophy and religion.

As to the notion of living in the Truman Show... I have heard it said that living in the USA often seems like living in a film set, and nowhere more than LA where nothing is over 100 years old. Add to this the flippant nature of most interpersonal relationships in the Hollywood environment and the hype and superficiality of it all, and it becomes easy to see how you could go mad there without the grounding of a life outside of Hollywood to return to.
 

AlchoPwn

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There has been a recent push by the Christian Fundamentalists to try to gain permission to erect faith based iconography and statuary in public places and even outside of court houses. This is of course in contravention to the US Constitution which insists that religious freedom is protected, but in rulings points out that it cannot prejudice or favor one religion over another. In a push back against this drive, there has been a rallying to the Church of Satan, which insists that if Christians are allowed to erect public statuary, then they deserve equal representation:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/26/satanic-temple-sculpture-detroit-oklahoma

This for the most part seems like a humorously ironic form of activism conducted by hipster atheists. What most people are unaware of is that the demon "Baphomet" is actually a depiction of the Prophet Mohammed, as put forwards by the Knights Templar in their initiation ceremonies to show the initiate the price of failure in the war against the Infidel i.e. being forced to spit on the cross and worship the enthronement of evil.

Evidence from the papal reprieve of the Knights Templar:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...reprieve-after-700-years-idUSL093422320071012

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet

Given the personal history of the prophet Mohammed and his depraved antics as outlined in the Hadiths, I am sure that Satanism is far more moral at its core teachings than Islam.
 

GNC

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Actually Simulationism has a long pedigree in philosophy and religion.
I bet they didn't call it "simulationism", though. Wouldn't solipsism be closer?
 

EnolaGaia

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I bet they didn't call it "simulationism", though. Wouldn't solipsism be closer?
No. 'Reality' can't be attributed to a simulation without reference to actions / actors / minds extrinsic to the individual observer - i.e., things that solipsism refutes by definition.

In terms of epistemology, a simulationist (?) orientation would seem most akin to positions of the classical skeptics regarding non-committal attitudes toward what is 'real'.

I'm not sure any classical category of philosophy maps precisely onto a simulationist orientation. One reason is that the whole notion of 'simulation' is borrowed from relatively modern scientific / technical practices. Popular allusions to reality-as-simulation are rarely framed with the sort of precision and rigor one expects of philosophy.
 

GNC

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No. 'Reality' can't be attributed to a simulation without reference to actions / actors / minds extrinsic to the individual observer - i.e., things that solipsism refutes by definition.

In terms of epistemology, a simulationist (?) orientation would seem most akin to positions of the classical skeptics regarding non-committal attitudes toward what is 'real'.

I'm not sure any classical category of philosophy maps precisely onto a simulationist orientation. One reason is that the whole notion of 'simulation' is borrowed from relatively modern scientific / technical practices. Popular allusions to reality-as-simulation are rarely framed with the sort of precision and rigor one expects of philosophy.
I know, it's more a case of blame the movies than blame any actual, historical philosophical standpoint. I suppose believing life to be a dream has been around for a while (how old is the song "Row, row, row your boat"?), but then again getting to the end of a story and it's all been a dream is as old as The Wizard of Oz, which brings us back to the movies.
 

EnolaGaia

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I know, it's more a case of blame the movies than blame any actual, historical philosophical standpoint. I suppose believing life to be a dream has been around for a while (how old is the song "Row, row, row your boat"?), but then again getting to the end of a story and it's all been a dream is as old as The Wizard of Oz, which brings us back to the movies.
That's a good point ...

With the exception of certain outside-the-mainstream philosophical orientations, the notion of 'life is but a dream' hasn't had much traction in Western cultures between ancient times and the last century or two.

The notion that a 'dream' (and / or a sufficiently rich dream-like artificial presentation) could serve as a metaphor for 'reality' wasn't really viable until there were examples of such sufficiently-rich presentations. Such presentations didn't really achieve currency until magic lanterns, innovative stagecraft, phantasmagoria shows, etc., arrived in the late 18th and 19th centuries.
 

AlchoPwn

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I bet they didn't call it "simulationism", though. Wouldn't solipsism be closer?
No, simulationism is something quite different. Solipsism is the belief that one is an un-self-aware deity, and that all reality is a product of one's own misguided will, much as in a dream. Thus if the solipsist wakes up in their waking dream, they would potentially have the power of a fantasy wizard, as they would be lucid dreaming, and thus alter the fabric of the dream. Arguably, the character David Haller from the excellent TV series "Legion" could be described as a realization of this philosophy.

Simulationism, the way I am using it is the belief that reality is in fact an elaborate simulation, such as one might find in a computer game, where the participants are unaware of the simulation. The difference is that just because one realizes the false nature of reality doesn't mean that one is thus empowered to change reality, outside the scope of one's mundane interactions with the simulation. There are echoes of this in perennial philosophy such as Plato's Troglodytes, Christ's Kingdom on Earth being immanent but unrealized, and the nature of ignorance in Buddhism etc. While feasibly such a character may find a way to "hack the matrix", they are implicitly part of the simulation and have no reality outside it.

It all becomes amusingly, perhaps uncomfortably plausible when one reads Aristotle's Natural History. Aristotle for example posited the notion of spontaneous generation i.e. sacks of grain spontaneously generate rats, rivers spontaneously generate fish, and frogs turn into geese and fly south for the winter. Given the way creatures "spawn" in computer games such as MMORPGs, it could be argued that Aristotle was participating in an earlier version of reality where this observation held true, and they later update made everything more complex. Surely Aristotle couldn't have been such a fool as to believe such things without some evidence? LOL or could he? (I'm not an Aristotle apologist btw, I think he was a bit of a douche).
 
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