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Scientology

Scientology // Dianetics

Let me state the obvious right up front... this post reveals both my ignorance (since most of what I "know" about this topic consists of randomly-absorbed bits of info of questionable worth) and my laziness (since I probably SHOULD just make use of a search engine and browse about). Apologies.

I was wondering if there are any good websites that give the "straight story" on Scientology and/or Dianetics. No, NOT because I want to join up - no offense to any members. I am not looking for the official websites, since, from what little I do know, they are not likely to be especially enlightening. But I have heard so MANY crazy rumors that my curiousity has been piqued...

Among them...

... that science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard created Scientology...and may have done so on a bet or as a lark?
... that at "higher levels" within the group it is "revealed" that negative feelings/emotions/limits on the human psyche are somehow tied to an ancient extraterrestrial presence still active on Earth / in people?
... that there have been some ugly incidents regarding threats and violence aimed at some critics/former members?
... that the volcano featured prominently in the Dianetics ads and book covers is the final resting place of some "alien overlord" or "evil king" in some ancient time (and this has some relevance to today? :blah: :confused: )...

Okay...as I said, this post may pretty much just illustrate my ignorance, and the above "rumors" may rightly inspire laughter or outrage, but as I said, my curiousity has been piqued. Apologies to any who take offense - not my intent. But I AM curious as to the "real story", if such details are known....

Shadow
 
Re: Scientology // Dianetics

Shadow said:
... that science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard created Scientology...and may have done so on a bet or as a lark?
Click to expand...
Yes - mainly as a way of making money and exerting power. He'd already tried occultism, but had been sussed out pretty quickly (Crowley thought he was an idiot)

... that at "higher levels" within the group it is "revealed" that negative feelings/emotions/limits on the human psyche are somehow tied to an ancient extraterrestrial presence still active on Earth / in people?
Click to expand...

Yes, more or less. It didn't start out that way, however. It was orginally marketed simply as a new type of therapy.

... that there have been some ugly incidents regarding threats and violence aimed at some critics/former members?
Click to expand...

Yes - all true. But all the the past, now. Allegedly.

... that the volcano featured prominently in the Dianetics ads and book covers is the final resting place of some "alien overlord" or "evil king" in some ancient time (and this has some relevance to today? :blah: :confused: )...
Click to expand...

Never heard of that one. But it's perfectly possible, given the way this 'religion' and its tenets have mutated over the past decaxde or so.

There are lots of good Scientology sites - can't think of any at the moment, but I'm sure people here will come up with some - there is already a Scientology thread on here, BTW. The best book on Hubbard & Scientology I've read is 'Bare-Faced Messiah' by Russell Miller - a real hatchet-job by a former Scientologist.
 
I just saw that they apparently keep people away from high ranking positions if they are members of scientology. That is actually pretty cruel.
 
i read, but don't profess to know if it is true or not, that L. Ron Hubbard CLAIMED to have been a member of the California lodge of the OTO (Crowley's outfit, the Ordo Templaris Orientalis or something like that) for the purpose of keeping an eye on them and Jack Parsons for the FBI, or some other US intelligence/ criminal investigation agency. now that is quite a claim!

i understand that there are many Scientology "front organizations," including one that is part of the anti-psychiatry movement. in the USA, and i suppose abroad, they publicized the alleged dangers of Prozac, saying it caused suicides.

i believe that their anti-Prozac campaign was a disservice to many mentally ill people.

perhaps they are opposed to psychiatry because it competes with their own practices of "therapy."

have you all ever heard of the Process Church of the Final Judgement? (i bet you have, since this is an FT Message Board! :) ) that organization was begun in the 1950s by two folks who split away from the Scientologists. but therein lies another tale!

does anyone have any idea why so many movie & TV folks get involved in Scientology? do you suppose it is just proselytising & networking in Hollywood (or wherever these people hang out)? i have read that John Travolta, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Kirstie Allie, and Jenna Elfman, among others, are members. they supposedly have special luxury facilities for VIPs, but couldn't some of these people afford to buy all of the luxury facilities they want, and not have to go to the Scientologists for them?

now, after posting this message, i am afraid that the Scientologists will sue me for defamation. they sue people alot, i've been told.
 
the American comic Martin Mull used to perform a satirical and, to me, very funny, song called "Jesus is Easy." the song mentions all of the religions and spiritual movements of which the singer had been a member, but concludes that Christianity is best, because it is easiest to understand.

about Scientology, the lyric is: "I tried Scientology/It made a fool out of me/Now I believe the things I did when I was three . . ."

the song has a lot of tortured rhymes and improbable rhythms.

ok, I think that it's funny! :)
 
Dan Dare said:
i read, but don't profess to know if it is true or not, that L. Ron Hubbard CLAIMED to have been a member of the California lodge of the OTO (Crowley's outfit, the Ordo Templaris Orientalis or something like that) for the purpose of keeping an eye on them and Jack Parsons for the FBI, or some other US intelligence/ criminal investigation agency. now that is quite a claim!
Click to expand...
He actually was an member of the OTO, when he was living in Jack Parsons' house in 1947 (I think?) - his little adventure into the occult ended when he ran off with Parsons' girlfriend. In later years, he would always claim that he did it (joined the OTO that is) only because he was patriotic American gathering valuable information for the FBI on the commies, perverts and subversives who made up the OTO.
perhaps they are opposed to psychiatry because it competes with their own practices of "therapy."
Click to expand...

Oooh!!! Go and wash out your mouth this minute!
 
i'm sure that a gathering of that OTO lodge was quite a trip!

i wrote the bit about the Scientologists & their anti-psychiatry stance in the way i did out of fear of Scientologist lawsuits. that is an irrational fear, but, hey, I BET THEY ARE MONITORING THIS MESSAGE BOARD RIGHT NOW!!!:madeyes:

oh, yes, Annasdottir! great name. are you of Icelandic descent? (i've always loved how they name people in Iceland, and that their phonebook[s?] lists people by their first names.)
 
Just a note re Prozac

Prozac can raise the proportion of deep depressives who commit suicide. Theres a nasty little period when it removes the inhibition to action but hasn't yet started to take you out of the *down* it normally happens about 4 days in or amongst those who are on a too low dose.

Back to L Ron (elron - elrond??) anyone here read "Stranger in a Strange Land"
 
i don't mean to be rude, but from what i understand, the risk of suicide rises slightly among people starting ANY kind of antidepressant drug. just as you say, when one is extremely depressed, one can barely move or make a decision. when one gets a little better, one still is suffering greatly, but has the ability to make decisions (a little) and to act (a little). sometimes it's the wrong decision.

i understand that the same risk exists when an extremely depressed person gets a little better even if he or she is not taking any drug at all.

sorry to lay my sorry trip on you, but i've taken just about every kind of the "new generation" of antidepressants that there is, plus a good sample of the older tricyclic family of drugs. i think that the Scientologists should drop their campaign against Prozac and start a campaign against antidepressants that TASTE BAD. there's one kind . . . oy vey, it tastes bad! :cross eye << that's what a person's face looks like after taking one of those pills.
 
German prejudice

Sorry, Dan, I should have made it clear it wasn't just Prozac but then I don't have that much experience of triCycs, not being bipolar in my depression. TriCyc acted like a bulldozer on my emotional state.

Back to Elron, any one else seen this news story on MSNBC . To precis Jesse Helms is meeting CoS star Tom Cruise to discuss the *plight* of the CoS in Germany. The Germans will not let the CoS register as a religious organisation because they conside it a money making scam.

Lets have 3 cheers for the Teutons and a deprogramming session for T Cruise.
 
Why would those Germans consider Scientology to be a money-making scam? [da-DUM on the drum . . . the audience explodes in laughter!]

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting between Tom Cruise and Jesse Helms.

Doesn't Tom Cruise have better things to do? I mean, he could be taking beautiful movie star women to lunch at fancy Beverly Hills restaurants instead of meeting with Jesse Helms.

[Tom Cruise could even things that aren't on the menu, and get them too!]

On the other hand, it's gonna be Jesse Helms he meets. And as Edward Lear wrote, "How unpleasant to meet Mr Helms!" :eek!!!!:

Have you heard of an American TV program called "South Park?" It's a VERY rude cartoon for adults; the characters are all very unpleasant children about 8 years old. Tonight's episode was about a new religion founded by someone named Blaine; all of the children convert & go to live at his "compound." They and thousands of Blaine's followers gather in front of the Lincoln Memorial to protest the fact that the US government hasn't given the group tax-exempt status as a religion (the government says that they are a money-making scam). The followers begin drowning themselves one or two at a time in the Reflecting Pool in front of the Memorial. Fortunately, the Super Best Friends (Moses, Mohammed, Jesus, Lao-Tse, Buddha, Krishna etc) arrive in time to foil Blaine with their superpowers & save his poor deluded followers from suicide. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP! I REALLY SAW THIS PROGRAM ON TV JUST ABOUT 90 MINUTES AGO!

Funny coincidence in timing, I think. [And I hope those Scientologists don't sue me now!!!]
 
COS on the telly

Haven' seen the South Park episode yet, which really sounds entertaining. Dan's post reminded me of the hilarious episode 'Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense' from the second season of 'Millennium'. The episode brought back X-Files character J. Chung investigating the strange cult 'Selfosophy Church', which was founded by a hapless writer who turned to writing successful self help books such as "How to Manipulate People By Your Apparent Friendliness" and "How to Be Happy Even When You Shouldn't". Sound familiar?
 
"How to Be Happy When You Really Shouldn't" -- now that's a funny title!!

gotta go now: my electric personality auditor has finally warmed up enough to use, and i have to use it alot if i am ever going to become a "clear."
 
Scientology Trial

Source: The Times (AP) 22/Feb/2002

Paris: The Church Of Scientology has gone on trail for the first time, charged with fraud and false advertising in its efforts to recruit and keep adherents. The case stems from former Scientologists from Paris who tried to leave the group.


Cor, this'll open a can of worms for faith based religions all over the globe. I don't have any further details at the moment, but will be watching with interest!
 
Intaglio: that is a pretty grim story. they seem to be able to use the threat of court action to fend off almost all criticism.

I gather that someone (I don't know who) is still trying to get anti-blasphemy laws restored in the UK? That would, I believe, prove to be a boon to the Scientologists.

If there were such a law, would they be able to prosecute me if I were to suggest that the Bible is NOT the infallible word of God?

by the way, I was in New York City today, a place I don't actually go to that often, and saw an ad on the subway for the Scientologists. there was a picture of two hands reassembling the globe, and a reference to something like "the world falling apart." Then there was an offer to contact a "volunteer minister" for help.

of course, in NYC people are still extremely upset about the attacks of September 11. The city Health Department has begun a program -- which includes posting ads in the subways -- encouraging people to take advantage of the counseling that the city offers if they are still suffering emotionally/psychologically from the events of that day.

it seems that the Scientologists are using the same matter to try to get people to contact them. the website they advertise is http://www.volunteerminister.org.

Could they sue me if I were to discourage people from seeking help from them?
 
I WANT TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM HAVING ANYTHING WHATSOVER TO DO WITH THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.

There, they can sue me all they want - as I'm worth zilch, financially speaking, it'll cost them a lot more than it will cost me.
 
That thing with the posters is pretty cruel. I bet you're never told it is a part of scientology before it's too late. They often seem to lure people by pretending to be someone else.

So how exactly did the site infringe copyright? The article isn't very specific. Was it by quoting the Dianetics book?
 
Yeah, and since when did CoS use celtic cross as there symbol (someone's gonna say c.1980!)

Scientology-vm.jpg


NB the above image is copyright 2002ALRH Church of Scientology asn may not be laughed at, pointed to or called names in public without written consent of a swathe of actors, dodgy lawyers and texan pimps

Just seems a bit odd that a 'religion' based on self help books and sci-fi redemptionism should go back to the crux of the cross (sorry bad pun alert)

.23
 
Xanatic: if you are referring to posters I saw on the NY subway advertising counseling from their "volunteer ministers," they do say "scientology" on them. once. but I bet that most people don't know who they are precisely. ["Let's see, it's them Harrod Krishners who are a cult, not these Scientists . . ."]

so they use a Celtic cross as a symbol now? they must be getting soft.
 
Yeah, but then it is people's own fault. It is something else when they want to give you a free therapy session or so, without mentioning they are from scientology.
 
dot23 said:
Yeah, and since when did CoS use celtic cross as there symbol (someone's gonna say c.1980!)
Scientology-vm.jpg

NB the above image is copyright 2002ALRH Church of Scientology asn may not be laughed at, pointed to or called names in public without written consent of a swathe of actors, dodgy lawyers and texan pimps
Just seems a bit odd that a 'religion' based on self help books and sci-fi redemptionism should go back to the crux of the cross (sorry bad pun alert)
.23
Click to expand...
That's not a Celtic cross - the Celtic Cross has equal-length arms and is enclosed within a circle. It is definately a Christian cross; hopefully,some Christian body will sue them.
 
one can but hope :)

NB I tried to include the image but had no joy - can anyone advise how to include pictures from external website ???
 
save it to your hard drive and use the bottom of the reply form to attach it to the message.:)
 
wow, that really is a Christian cross!

This reminds me of what I read in a sociologist's book about the Process Church of the Final Judgement.

(It was either Rodney Stark who wrote it, or that other guy who does new religious movements, you know, the one whose name begins with a "B" -- the hard drive in my head is corrupted, and my memory is gone).

WHOEVER it was who wrote the book had studied the Process Church (with their knowledge) in the late 1960s--early 1970s. He had a diagram of the way their street proselytisers dressed BEFORE the Manson Family murdered Sharon Tate and friends, and the La Biancas, and a diagram of how they dressed AFTER.

BEFORE they dressed in monk-like robes with hoods pulled up over their heads. They looked scary.

AFTER they wore ordinary clothes, and went out in groups of 2, a guy and a woman. They had open neck safari shirts with a big cross pinned to each collar.

I thought of that because the symbol of the "Volunteer Ministers" looks like a badge to me.

HOURS LATER, HE RETURNS TO EDIT POST:

the book I referred to above was by the sociologist whose name begins with a B: W.S. Bainbridge. Here's the info about it:

W. S. Bainbridge "Satan's Power: A Deviant Psychotherapy Cult", University of California Press, Berkeley, CA, (1978).
 
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