Scientology

AgProv

Master of Uncertainty and Doubt
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
888
Reaction score
1,426
Points
139
Just reading into Scientology. Hmmm. general impression: as an appreciative viewer of The King of Queens, imagining hard-bitten streetwise New Yorker Carrie Heffernan (OK then, actress Leah Remini) going head-to-head versus the whole of Scientology... THAT one should go to the fifteenth round.

And then this...

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChurchOfHappyology

The Church of Scientology has a reputation for being very protective of its public image, and of being extraordinarily sensitive to what it considers defamation. This has been demonstrated by the church breaking out the lawyers to suppress any potential source of mockery by lawsuit, along with private investigators to dig up dirt on them (or in the past, even framing critics for various crimes).
Naturally, this just makes them easier to mock.
 

Naughty_Felid

kneesy earsy nosey
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,398
Reaction score
11,090
Points
294
l’ve checked, and l don’t seem to have posted this myself. Apologies if anyone else has.

As you watch the South Park snippet below, keep reminding yourself that this risible pish is what Scientologists actually believe:


maximus otter
I don't think any Scientologists believe any of that crap. It was just a framework to hang their religion on. If you listen to all the accounts of ex-members it's purely about growing the brand by recruitment, hitting targets etc.

What it does bring you, like any religion, is a support structure, social standing, a career for some, and a sense of belonging. A bit like psychologists really. :)
 

Xanatic*

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
4,325
Reaction score
4,547
Points
159
This stuff wasn't always public knowledge. Before you had to reach a certain level in Scientology, before you got access to this info. A guy called Paul Haggis talked a bit about that.
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
1,297
Points
184
Being a priest/senior member of any church is like being a senior member of a political party - you don't have to believe in the historic texts or doctrines but you must say you do to get advancement.
I'm cynical enough to think that while there are true believers in any such group of people, most of the higher echelons see more Earthly rewards as desirable.* Like suicide bombers really, really believe in what they do, I'm not so sure that those who program them also do so - after all, they'd want to die 'for the cause'. Like church leaders speak of the nobility, the pride in being poor or doing menial work for low pay, they don't actually mean it for themselves.
The "mumbo jumbo" of scientology is appealing to many of the general public, especially when you see wealthy celebs buying into it. But, I'm sure, you don't get 'promoted' for your unquestioning faith - you get promoted based on your financial value to the organisation. And this sort of elitism appeals to those who are insincere - it appeals to their self-worth. Get past a certain level and I reckon the ... ah ... core teachings get left behind in a flurry of self-interest. "Believe what we tell you, give us money, and you will be better than others" is such an indicative mantra.

* Let it be understood that I am not against people of faith, who believe in some religious doctrines, but I'm very cynical over many "religious organisations". I believe in the potential for a person to do good or bad, and the way a faith can guide someones actions for the common good, but when it comes to one person saying "I know what God thinks" then, like in a crime investigation, my firth thought is qui bono?
 

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
1,726
Points
184
Location
Indiana
Well...L Ron Hubbard essentially created Scientology and he was a sci-fi, fantsasy, and adventure writer at first until he started Scientology after writing Dianetics. His life was a bit odd as seen from this Wiki bio.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
After he became ill and secluded others took over and made it a money making cult.
 

Anome

Bibliomancer
Joined
May 23, 2002
Messages
5,560
Reaction score
647
Points
194
Location
Left, and to the Back
I don't think any Scientologists believe any of that crap. It was just a framework to hang their religion on. If you listen to all the accounts of ex-members it's purely about growing the brand by recruitment, hitting targets etc.

What it does bring you, like any religion, is a support structure, social standing, a career for some, and a sense of belonging. A bit like psychologists really. :)
No, some of them really do believe that crap. Is David Miscavige one of them? Is Tom Cruise? No idea.

It's really a pyramid scheme with the trappings of religion. Some might argue all religions are like that, but in reality not that many of them are quite so blatant about it.
 

Naughty_Felid

kneesy earsy nosey
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,398
Reaction score
11,090
Points
294
No, some of them really do believe that crap. Is David Miscavige one of them? Is Tom Cruise? No idea.

It's really a pyramid scheme with the trappings of religion. Some might argue all religions are like that, but in reality not that many of them are quite so blatant about it.
I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.

If you look at Hubbard and the rise of Dianetics and Scientology it's all about the money. Even if it was Lester Del Ray and not Hubbard who made the famous quote about religion and wealth.
 
Last edited:

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
31,687
Reaction score
18,640
Points
309
I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.

If you look at Hubbard and the rise of Dianetics and Scientology it's all about the money. Even if it was Lester Del Ray and not Hubbard who made the famous quote about religion and wealth.
It's not just about the money: it's also getting off on bullying and control. Never underestimate the satisfaction some people take in ordering others to clean a toilet with their own toothbrush.
 

Junopsis

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
114
Reaction score
164
Points
74
I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.
Oh, Google is failing me, but back in the Anonymous days (before the name got diluted beyond all meaning/criminal things started happening/suspicious Russian VPNs started getting advocates in the forums) I remember hearing something about dissenting/branch-off Scientologists. People who rejected the organization but who believed in the religious aspects/self-help/possibly also the space weirdness (not that I think those things are particularly self helpful, but). I'm not finding anything about it on a quick search but what you're looking for might exist, even if that's in the form of a few people who got away from the system but can't let go of the idea that "it must have something to it".
 

dr wu

Doctor Prog
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
1,726
Points
184
Location
Indiana
I don't think there is anything wrong with self help, reevaluation, and ordering one's mind,,,however you wish to describe these techniques, the problem arises when one makes a cult out of it to control people as pointed out.
Indeed there is no doubt that Hubbard et al stole ideas from eastern and wetsern disciplines and made them over into Scientology ideas.
One that comes to mind (that I investigated for a few years) is 4th Way work and Gurdjieff. It has many ideas and practices similar to Hubbard's stuff but without the alien space junk.
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
1,297
Points
184
I am a cynic. A fair one, I'd like to think. I ask questions because I'm interested then after hearing answers, I make my own mind up. There is always room for new ideas, new concepts.
Nowt wrong with self-help or revelations; guidance and advice, if you like. But my "Here It Comes" alarm goes off when money is involved. There's a big difference between asking for, and accepting, voluntary donations. Heck, a person has to make a living to pay bills, taxes and so on. But when someone 'sells' enlightenment and 'the right way' I become suspicious. It's not like paying a teacher to teach. Teaching is regulated, has oversight, standards. Even if you teach so-called "crackpot" ideas, the ideas are fine but you have standards to meet to be a teacher.
I recall, over a decade ago, one feller being interviewed on local BBC radio. He was selling lecture tickets and the obligatory series of books based on his "astounding" theory of breathing correctly to cure all ills. This was unconnected to Breatharianism, please note. The radio presenter gave him a fair whack at promoting his lectures and books but then got down to the nitty-gritty.
"So ... you claim we don't breath right? That for centuries we have been breathing the wrong way?"
"Absolutely!" he replied with eagerness.
"So ... what is the right way? How can we breath to help our health more?"
After much hesitation and avoidance, he 'demonstrated' (on radio, mind) "one" of the breathing techniques which "balances" the body humours.
After some more (not entirely serious) questions ...
"And learning to breath properly will alleviate many illnesses? It will help everyone to ... ah ... reconnect with their healthy life?"
"Yes."
"So ... if we buy your books, which you say teaches us to breath properly, can't we teach others, give others a healthy life?"
"Um. No. It will guide you on the path of the right way to breath."
"Why, then, buy your books if only you can teach us how to do it properly?"
Pause.
"They give you a general idea, the concept of it. But true mastery ..."
At this point the presenter barely concealed his giggling. He made no comment on the truth of The Master's claim. But questioning it highlighted a flaw, a wrinkle, in the path to Enlightenment: you needed to give an income to The Master.
 
Last edited:

JaneD

JaneD
Joined
Dec 5, 2020
Messages
33
Reaction score
55
Points
18
Location
Midgard
I can recommend Going Clear by Lawrence Wright. It’s on the old Kindle and it has lots of interesting stuff on the church. I guess at some point as you go up through the layers in the organisation you must have to decide whether it’s bogus and you bail out and be ostracised or to carry on and gain power. I mean nobody missed a beat when L Ron snuffed it and at his level he should have lived for ever. On a tour of Fitzrovia a few years ago we got a tour and tea and biscuits in the Scientology hq in Fitzroy square. No cake. Make of that what you will.
 
Top