• Forums Software Updates

    The forums will be undergoing updates on Sunday 13th October 2024.
    Little to no downtime is expected.
  • We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.
Just reading into Scientology. Hmmm. general impression: as an appreciative viewer of The King of Queens, imagining hard-bitten streetwise New Yorker Carrie Heffernan (OK then, actress Leah Remini) going head-to-head versus the whole of Scientology... THAT one should go to the fifteenth round.

And then this...

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChurchOfHappyology

The Church of Scientology has a reputation for being very protective of its public image, and of being extraordinarily sensitive to what it considers defamation. This has been demonstrated by the church breaking out the lawyers to suppress any potential source of mockery by lawsuit, along with private investigators to dig up dirt on them (or in the past, even framing critics for various crimes).
Naturally, this just makes them easier to mock.
 
l’ve checked, and l don’t seem to have posted this myself. Apologies if anyone else has.

As you watch the South Park snippet below, keep reminding yourself that this risible pish is what Scientologists actually believe:


maximus otter

I don't think any Scientologists believe any of that crap. It was just a framework to hang their religion on. If you listen to all the accounts of ex-members it's purely about growing the brand by recruitment, hitting targets etc.

What it does bring you, like any religion, is a support structure, social standing, a career for some, and a sense of belonging. A bit like psychologists really. :)
 
This stuff wasn't always public knowledge. Before you had to reach a certain level in Scientology, before you got access to this info. A guy called Paul Haggis talked a bit about that.
 
Being a priest/senior member of any church is like being a senior member of a political party - you don't have to believe in the historic texts or doctrines but you must say you do to get advancement.
I'm cynical enough to think that while there are true believers in any such group of people, most of the higher echelons see more Earthly rewards as desirable.* Like suicide bombers really, really believe in what they do, I'm not so sure that those who program them also do so - after all, they'd want to die 'for the cause'. Like church leaders speak of the nobility, the pride in being poor or doing menial work for low pay, they don't actually mean it for themselves.
The "mumbo jumbo" of scientology is appealing to many of the general public, especially when you see wealthy celebs buying into it. But, I'm sure, you don't get 'promoted' for your unquestioning faith - you get promoted based on your financial value to the organisation. And this sort of elitism appeals to those who are insincere - it appeals to their self-worth. Get past a certain level and I reckon the ... ah ... core teachings get left behind in a flurry of self-interest. "Believe what we tell you, give us money, and you will be better than others" is such an indicative mantra.

* Let it be understood that I am not against people of faith, who believe in some religious doctrines, but I'm very cynical over many "religious organisations". I believe in the potential for a person to do good or bad, and the way a faith can guide someones actions for the common good, but when it comes to one person saying "I know what God thinks" then, like in a crime investigation, my firth thought is qui bono?
 
Well...L Ron Hubbard essentially created Scientology and he was a sci-fi, fantsasy, and adventure writer at first until he started Scientology after writing Dianetics. His life was a bit odd as seen from this Wiki bio.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
After he became ill and secluded others took over and made it a money making cult.
 
I don't think any Scientologists believe any of that crap. It was just a framework to hang their religion on. If you listen to all the accounts of ex-members it's purely about growing the brand by recruitment, hitting targets etc.

What it does bring you, like any religion, is a support structure, social standing, a career for some, and a sense of belonging. A bit like psychologists really. :)
No, some of them really do believe that crap. Is David Miscavige one of them? Is Tom Cruise? No idea.

It's really a pyramid scheme with the trappings of religion. Some might argue all religions are like that, but in reality not that many of them are quite so blatant about it.
 
No, some of them really do believe that crap. Is David Miscavige one of them? Is Tom Cruise? No idea.

It's really a pyramid scheme with the trappings of religion. Some might argue all religions are like that, but in reality not that many of them are quite so blatant about it.

I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.

If you look at Hubbard and the rise of Dianetics and Scientology it's all about the money. Even if it was Lester Del Ray and not Hubbard who made the famous quote about religion and wealth.
 
Last edited:
I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.

If you look at Hubbard and the rise of Dianetics and Scientology it's all about the money. Even if it was Lester Del Ray and not Hubbard who made the famous quote about religion and wealth.

It's not just about the money: it's also getting off on bullying and control. Never underestimate the satisfaction some people take in ordering others to clean a toilet with their own toothbrush.
 
I'd actually like to see some actual believers. None of the people who have escaped Scientology, that I've heard, ever talked about the idealogy behind it. They may believe in the techniques but not the space beings, (Xenu), part of it.

Oh, Google is failing me, but back in the Anonymous days (before the name got diluted beyond all meaning/criminal things started happening/suspicious Russian VPNs started getting advocates in the forums) I remember hearing something about dissenting/branch-off Scientologists. People who rejected the organization but who believed in the religious aspects/self-help/possibly also the space weirdness (not that I think those things are particularly self helpful, but). I'm not finding anything about it on a quick search but what you're looking for might exist, even if that's in the form of a few people who got away from the system but can't let go of the idea that "it must have something to it".
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with self help, reevaluation, and ordering one's mind,,,however you wish to describe these techniques, the problem arises when one makes a cult out of it to control people as pointed out.
Indeed there is no doubt that Hubbard et al stole ideas from eastern and wetsern disciplines and made them over into Scientology ideas.
One that comes to mind (that I investigated for a few years) is 4th Way work and Gurdjieff. It has many ideas and practices similar to Hubbard's stuff but without the alien space junk.
 
I am a cynic. A fair one, I'd like to think. I ask questions because I'm interested then after hearing answers, I make my own mind up. There is always room for new ideas, new concepts.
Nowt wrong with self-help or revelations; guidance and advice, if you like. But my "Here It Comes" alarm goes off when money is involved. There's a big difference between asking for, and accepting, voluntary donations. Heck, a person has to make a living to pay bills, taxes and so on. But when someone 'sells' enlightenment and 'the right way' I become suspicious. It's not like paying a teacher to teach. Teaching is regulated, has oversight, standards. Even if you teach so-called "crackpot" ideas, the ideas are fine but you have standards to meet to be a teacher.
I recall, over a decade ago, one feller being interviewed on local BBC radio. He was selling lecture tickets and the obligatory series of books based on his "astounding" theory of breathing correctly to cure all ills. This was unconnected to Breatharianism, please note. The radio presenter gave him a fair whack at promoting his lectures and books but then got down to the nitty-gritty.
"So ... you claim we don't breath right? That for centuries we have been breathing the wrong way?"
"Absolutely!" he replied with eagerness.
"So ... what is the right way? How can we breath to help our health more?"
After much hesitation and avoidance, he 'demonstrated' (on radio, mind) "one" of the breathing techniques which "balances" the body humours.
After some more (not entirely serious) questions ...
"And learning to breath properly will alleviate many illnesses? It will help everyone to ... ah ... reconnect with their healthy life?"
"Yes."
"So ... if we buy your books, which you say teaches us to breath properly, can't we teach others, give others a healthy life?"
"Um. No. It will guide you on the path of the right way to breath."
"Why, then, buy your books if only you can teach us how to do it properly?"
Pause.
"They give you a general idea, the concept of it. But true mastery ..."
At this point the presenter barely concealed his giggling. He made no comment on the truth of The Master's claim. But questioning it highlighted a flaw, a wrinkle, in the path to Enlightenment: you needed to give an income to The Master.
 
Last edited:
I can recommend Going Clear by Lawrence Wright. It’s on the old Kindle and it has lots of interesting stuff on the church. I guess at some point as you go up through the layers in the organisation you must have to decide whether it’s bogus and you bail out and be ostracised or to carry on and gain power. I mean nobody missed a beat when L Ron snuffed it and at his level he should have lived for ever. On a tour of Fitzrovia a few years ago we got a tour and tea and biscuits in the Scientology hq in Fitzroy square. No cake. Make of that what you will.
 
Another angry scientologist.

An employee of the Church of Scientology has been sentenced to 90 days in prison following his conviction for abusive and threatening behaviour towards an autism rights campaigner.

Judge James McNulty told Bantry District Court he would be willing to suspend Nathan Moore’s sentence if a payment of €10,000 was made to the Irish Society for Autism in the next seven days. Judge McNulty heard that Fiona O’Leary, who has two autistic sons, received an abusive phone call from Moore (22), of Allentown Park, Tallaght, Dublin 24.

She admitted making a phone call to Moore on December 4th, 2017, using the name ‘Chloe Smith’, to ask him about the church’s claims in relation to the treatment of autism and about a funfair being held at its community centre.

“I didn’t get through to him and he called me back and we spoke for about 20 minutes about the funfair, about Scientology and other issues,” she said, adding that the discussion was civil.

Ms O’Leary said she later received and recorded a call from Moore in which he threatened her, called her “a spastic geebag” and said he would “box her up and down”. She said the call left her terrified and that she received a number of threatening and abusive calls from blocked numbers in the following days.

Judge McNulty convicted Moore, who now runs the café at the Scientology centre, and asked if there were members of the church present supporting him. Defence solicitor Diarmuid Kelleher said there were. He said his client left school early and was not mature enough at the time to respond to Ms O’Leary’s “interrogation”. Judge McNulty said this was a betrayal of trust and an abuse of power involving a religious group and church who had a duty of care towards Moore.

Judge McNulty said the prison sentence was to mark the court’s “deep disapproval” of what had occurred and that in the event of an appeal, recognisance on Moore’s own bond of €100 would be required, supported by two independent sureties of €5,000.

“The court would expect that those in authority or leadership in the Church of Scientology would go surety to ensure his appeal.”

Judge McNulty concluded by saying that he did not hear in court that Moore’s employers disapproved of what he said to Ms O’Leary.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...onvicted-over-threatening-behaviour-1.4113742


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...onvicted-over-threatening-behaviour-1.4113742

He lost his appeal but ...

A 24-year-old former employee of the Church of Scientology has failed in his appeal against his conviction and 90-day prison sentence for verbally abusing an autism campaigner over the phone.

At a sitting of the appeals court in Skibbereen, Co Cork, Judge Helen Boyle said there was absolute certainty that Nathan Moore of Allenton Park in Tallaght, Dublin, had made an abusive call to Fiona O’Leary on December 4, 2017.

Judge Boyle said the call, which involved “offensive and foul language”, had caused distress to Ms O’Leary. She stressed there was no doubt as to the identity of the caller and said the State case had been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Judge Boyle accepted the position of the State solicitor Malachy Boohig that the call had caused extreme upset to the witness.

Mr Moore, who works as a landscape gardener, apologised profusely to Ms O’Leary and her children for his comments and said he had matured since the incident nearly four years ago. He has since left the Church of Scientology and no longer works there. ...

Judge Boyle said she was prepared to adjourn the case for a year. Mr Moore may be given the benefit of the Probation Act at that point if he “stays out of trouble” in the interim.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40338836.html
 
He lost his appeal but ...

A 24-year-old former employee of the Church of Scientology has failed in his appeal against his conviction and 90-day prison sentence for verbally abusing an autism campaigner over the phone.

At a sitting of the appeals court in Skibbereen, Co Cork, Judge Helen Boyle said there was absolute certainty that Nathan Moore of Allenton Park in Tallaght, Dublin, had made an abusive call to Fiona O’Leary on December 4, 2017.

Judge Boyle said the call, which involved “offensive and foul language”, had caused distress to Ms O’Leary. She stressed there was no doubt as to the identity of the caller and said the State case had been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Judge Boyle accepted the position of the State solicitor Malachy Boohig that the call had caused extreme upset to the witness.

Mr Moore, who works as a landscape gardener, apologised profusely to Ms O’Leary and her children for his comments and said he had matured since the incident nearly four years ago. He has since left the Church of Scientology and no longer works there. ...

Judge Boyle said she was prepared to adjourn the case for a year. Mr Moore may be given the benefit of the Probation Act at that point if he “stays out of trouble” in the interim.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40338836.html
Is this the same Fiona O'Leary from the story about the SSPX?
 
The YouTube link is a ten-minute preview of a much longer podcast that is linked to at the bottom of the text.

Mike Rowe:

Seven years ago, a documentary aired on HBO called “Going Clear – Scientology, and the Prison of Belief.” The documentary is based on a book of the same title by Lawrence Wright and tells the story of a handful of people who joined The Church of Scientology. One of those people is a friend of mine called Spanky Taylor, who is my guest on this week’s episode. Shortly after the documentary aired, (which you can watch for free on You Tube,) I wrote about it on this page, and congratulated Spanky for doing what few in her position manage to do – break free from the clutches of a cult. https://bit.ly/35oRA0W

If you’ve seen the movie or read the book, you’ll understand just how insidious this organization is. And if you pay your taxes, you’ll no doubt share my outrage at our government’s decision to call this organization a church and grant them tax-exempt status. It is truly mind-blowing, utterly inexplicable, and something the IRS should reverse immediately. But if you’ve ever been swindled, or conned, or betrayed, or found yourself in an abusive relationship of any kind, you might find my conversation with Spanky to be of particular value. Because Spanky - like every other person who has ever been manipulated – not only allowed it to happen, she stayed in that relationship long after she knew it was hurting her.

Which begs the obvious question – Why?

Why do we stay when we know we should go? It’s easy to look at a cult – especially one as transparently venal and corrupt as Scientology - and marvel at the truly ludicrous things people will believe. And it’s tempting to dismiss such people as gullible or weak or foolish. But how many of us have stuck our head in the sand, rather than confront the painful truth of our own situation? How many have lingered in a toxic relationship, long after we knew it was hurting us?

Like the frog in the boiling water, most people are capable of believing anything, a little bit at a time. And then one day, we look at the water bubbling up around us and wonder how it got so damn hot. I’ve been there, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. That’s why I wanted to talk with Spanky Taylor. She’s awesome, and brave, and I appreciate her willingness to share her story. You will, too.

Full episode https://bit.ly/TWIHI240

https://mikerowe.com/podcast/
 
The reason SciTi is officially called a church and not a cult, and has tax exempt status is because they staged a massive harassment campaign against IRS workers until they gave in to get them off their backs. Scientology is a criminal organisation.
 
A month or so ago during a pub quiz there was the following question (I'm paraphrasing): when you sign up to Sea Org (a Scientology organisation), how many years do you commit to?

We pondered a lifetime but went for seven years. The answer was... a billion years.

Bonkers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org
"Sea Org members make a lifetime commitment to Scientology by signing a billion-year contract officially described as a symbolic pledge."
 
Merely a method of getting you for life, I'm afraid.
 
More Hubbardite crookery.

The Church of Scientology, faced with new allegations of human trafficking, is mounting a legal defense it has successfully used before.

Its lawyers are arguing this week in Tampa federal court that former Scientologists who level accusations must bring their cases before an internal arbitration panel of loyal church members — not to the U.S. court system.

The lawyers, in a series of motions filed late Tuesday, argue that plaintiffs Valeska Paris, 44, and husband and wife Gawain Baxter, 40, and Laura Baxter, 37, signed contracts when they were in the church’s Sea Org workforce that waived civil recourse and compelled them to settle any future disputes within the church.

The three allege in a federal lawsuit filed in April that they were trafficked into Scientology as children and forced to work through adulthood for little or no pay.

RELATED: Former Scientologist called police. When that went nowhere, she sued.
The church’s motion also includes copies of departure contracts that the Baxters and Paris signed when they left the church, in 2012 and 2007 respectively, reiterating the arbitration agreement.

The church brought forward a similar argument in the case of former Scientologists Luis and Rocio Garcia, and got a Tampa federal judge and the 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals to agree. The couple alleged in a 2013 federal lawsuit that the church committed financial fraud in securing donations totaling $1.3 million from them.

In his motion Tuesday, Charles M. Harris, an attorney for Scientology, argued that the appellate court, in its 2021 ruling against the Garcias, “enforced the identical arbitration agreements” that the Baxters and Paris signed while in the church.

A Tampa federal judge had granted Scientology’s request to compel the Garcias into arbitration in 2015. In his appeal, Theodore Babbitt, the Garcias’ attorney, called the two-day hearing that took place in 2017 “a sham” as church officials refused to allow the couple to enter evidence critical of Scientology or have an attorney present.


https://www.tampabay.com/news/clear...-should-be-addressed-internally-not-in-court/
 
I don’t really know much about scientology so earlier this year I preordered Mike Rinder’s book on CoS from Amazon. He was apparently on the CoS board of directors for 25 yrs and head of their ‘special affairs’ department until his defection. Just before the publication date I had an email from Amazon that just said ‘This order is cancelled’. Oh well thinks I, maybe it’s been delayed or legal malarkey or something. The book ended up being released around the originally stated release date, and I just bought it anyway.

So is this another example of the tentacles of scientology permeating every aspect of society, culture and civilisation and doing exactly what they like, to protect their interests, or just a typical random Amazon cock-up? The email was very abrupt, none of the usual ‘hi, we’re sorry but…’ stuff. Stupidly of course I deleted it. Duh.
 
I don’t really know much about scientology so earlier this year I preordered Mike Rinder’s book on CoS from Amazon. He was apparently on the CoS board of directors for 25 yrs and head of their ‘special affairs’ department until his defection. Just before the publication date I had an email from Amazon that just said ‘This order is cancelled’. Oh well thinks I, maybe it’s been delayed or legal malarkey or something. The book ended up being released around the originally stated release date, and I just bought it anyway.

So is this another example of the tentacles of scientology permeating every aspect of society, culture and civilisation and doing exactly what they like, to protect their interests, or just a typical random Amazon cock-up? The email was very abrupt, none of the usual ‘hi, we’re sorry but…’ stuff. Stupidly of course I deleted it. Duh.
There’s reviews of it from buyers on Amazon dating from 28th Sept so some are able to get it..
 
Well...L Ron Hubbard essentially created Scientology and he was a sci-fi, fantsasy, and adventure writer at first until he started Scientology after writing Dianetics. His life was a bit odd as seen from this Wiki bio.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
After he became ill and secluded others took over and made it a money making cult.
He wrote a book in the 50's that was used to start scientology. I don't remember the name of it but I read it and in it he spent most of the pages bragging about how he inveted this machine that could audit someone emotionally and it could be used to teach people to think better. He also spent some pages talking about how his machine proved that there was a soul and when someone died they flitted around until they found a pregnant woman to be born to. All very weird, and it was not a long book. I found it in the university library in the 80's.

Once many years later I was at the state fair with some co-workers and while we were waiting on one woman to buy somthing we visited the Scientology booth and I talked my co-worker into trying that silly machine. The zombie operating it was quite hilarious, saying things and waiting for a response that she didn't get so adjusting the knobs so the needle would peg out, then telling my friend that she had a problem with her daughter. (totally made up).

In the 80's my cousin had joined scientology and they put her in a 6 month detox/mind control program. She was in need of the detox and some of the methods they use work, when she ran away and came home she was actually able to hold a conversation and get a job and keep it, things she had not been able to do before she went. She tried some other churches and ended up preferring the mormon church when she wanted to get clean. She told me all kinds of things about how scientology recruit people and that it is all really about the money. She ran away from them because she did not like being a minion, she was planning to get rich somehow then go back and buy her way further up the food chain.
 
They used to donate their crap literature crap to the libraries, then periodically check whether it was on the shelves. As the stuff was never borrowed it either was or had been chucked, or possibly nicked by other groups. Just about every word over two syllables had an explanation of its meaning at the bottom of each page IIRC, shows the level it was aimed at and possibly that they didn't want the reader to look anywhere else.

They always argued that if they donated it we had to put it on the shelves but fortunately we had a written policy that said that we could do what we liked with anything donated. (To cover good stuff which went out of date, wore out, etc.)

When we computerised I could tell them how long we'd had the stuff and how few people actually read it, which was justification for getting shot of it (Mind you readership of other "religious" works was pretty low)

They were not happy and I expected Tom Cruise or John Travolta to turn up and give me a slap, but they never did.

We also had Battlefield Earth* that God Awful film that Travolta made based on Scientology as well. I ******ing watched that, I ought to go and give them a slap.

* edit to add link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_Earth_(film)
 
Don't bother slapping Travolta for Battlefield Earth. So many people have already done it - metaphorically - including fellow cast members.
A balanced(-ish) critique of this movie - and there's many out there - is available from "Cinematic Excrement" on You Tube ...
 
Back
Top