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Sea Serpents & Monsters (General; Miscellaneous)

The sceptics excuses are harder to believe than the phenomena they are trying to discredit.
The Pauline case is not the only one where a sea serpent is seen attacking a whale. On June 1st 1999 Arnt Helge Molvaer was walking along the coast near Alesund, north west Norway. Around 200 metres offshore he noticed a huge animal. It was brown in colour, 30 metres long and 1.5 metres thick. He observed the creature through his 7x 35 binoculars and saw it had a squarish fin 40 cm high behind its head. The head was like that of a huge anaconda. After watching it for ten minutes he ran home for his video camera. He returned 40-50 minutes later accompanied by his teenage son Per Tore Molvaer. The serpent was now engaged in feeding off the carcass of a humpbacked whale (Megaptera novaengliae). It was observed to move with both vertical and horizontal undulations. It appeared to be biting flesh from the carcass and dragged it further out into the fjord. Per said “It resembled an anaconda, only it was much bigger”. The footage is downloadable from the internet but is very blurry. There is a rounded shape that may be the whale floating belly-up and an elongate shape is visible close to it.
In his book The Whale and his Captors the Reverend Henry T Cheeves writes of a whale/sea dragon battle. From a statement made by a Kinebeck shipmaster in 1818, and sworn to before a justice of the peace in Kinebeck County, Maine, it would seem that the notable sea serpent and whale are sometimes found in conflict. At six o’clock on the afternoon of June 21st in the packet Delia, plying between Boston and Hallowell, when Cape Ann bore west-south-west about two miles, steering north-north-east, Captain Shuback West and fifteen others on board with him saw an object directly ahead, which he had no doubt was the sea-serpent, or the creature so often described under that name, engaged in a fight with a large whale...
The serpent threw up its tail from twenty five to thirty feet in a perpendicular direction, striking the whale by it with tremendous blows, rapidly repeated, which were distinctly heard, and very loud, for two or three minutes; then they both disappeared, moving in a south-west direction; but after a few minutes reappeared in-shore of the packet, and about under the sun, the reflection of which was so strong as to prevent them seeing it so distinctly as at first, when the serpent’s fearful blows with his tail were repeated and clearly heard as before. They again went down for a short time, and then came up to the surface under the packet’s larboard quarter, the whale appearing first, and the serpent in pursuit, who was again seen to shoot up his tail as before, which he held out of the water for some time, waving it in the air before striking, and at the same time held his head fifteen or twenty feet, as if taking a view of the surface of the sea. After being in this position for a few minutes, the serpent and the whale disappeared, and neither was seen after by any on board. It was Captain West’s opinion that the whale was trying to escape, as he spouted but once at a time on coming to the surface, and the last time he appeared he went down before the serpent came up.
Another of these titanic maritime struggles was reported in the San Francisco Californian Mail-Bag in 1879. It was observed in the Sea of Japan from the deck of the steam ship Kiushiu-maru, one of the fleet of the Mitsubishi com pany. Captain Davidson's statement runs thus. Saturday, April 5th, at 11.15 am, Cape Satano distant about nine miles, the chief officer and myself observed a whale jump clear out of the sea, about a quarter of a mile away. Shortly after it leaped out again, when I saw there was something attached to it. Got glasses, and on the next leap distinctly saw something holding on to the belly of the whale. The latter gave one more spring clear of the water,and myself and the chief officer then observed what appeared to be a creature of the snake species rear itself about thirty feet out of the water, the upper end going first. It appeared to be about the thickness of a junk’s mast, and after standing about ten seconds in an erect position, it descended into the water, the upper end going first. With my glasses I made out the colour of the beast to resemble that of a pilot fish. It is interesting to speculate as to whether the global crash in whale populations has had an adverse effect on sea serpents. The old whaling grounds of New England were once a hotbed of sea serpent reports.
 
lordmongrove said:
Aether Blue said:
Given that some whale populations were reduced by 99% at the peak of whaling, I too wonder whether we may have lost any large predators that may once have specialized in preying on whales.
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I've always thought the same.
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Also, given the increase in people with cell phones traveling on cruise ships and whale watching tours, such events would be more likely to be seen and recorded.
 
The sightings of sea serpents/lake serpents/etc seem to span history. Surely all these people can't be lying or making it up or imagining something smaller was something bigger. Sea faring folk of years gone by were not stupid. They were skilled mariners. Most couldn't have known such sightings had been made by others.

It's rather like the Saxon accounts of finding a particular type of serpent or dragon in a well, how it was killed, and how it poisoned the well for year afterwards. Why would they lie? At the time, they accepted that as par for the course as it were.

Serpents or dragons big or small. In the past they accepted such creatures existed. They had no reason to lie. They didn't live in todays society of make it out to be something that's it not. That is a 20/21st century thing, usually to make money or get 10 minutes of fame. Most reports from from years gone were just that, reports, They made nothing from it. No notoriety, no profit, no fame, no nothing. So why would they lie?

I also tend to agree and think the point made above somewhere in the postings on this thread that the reduction of the amount of large sea mammals like hump backed whales may account for the reduction of sightings of large sea serpents who may have fed upon them.

It all remains for us in the now, an enigma.
 
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kesavaross said:
The sightings of sea serpents/lake serpents/etc seem to span history. Surely all these people can't be lying or making it up or imagining something smaller was something bigger. Sea faring folk of years gone by were not stupid. They were skilled mariners. Most couldn't have known such sightings had been made by others.

It's rather like the Saxon accounts of finding a particular type of serpent or dragon in a well, how it was killed, and how it poisoned the well for year afterwards. Why would they lie? At the time, they accepted that as par for the course as it were.

Serpents or dragons big or small. In the past they accepted such creatures existed. They had no reason to lie. They didn't live in todays society of make it out to be something that's it not. That is a 20/21st century thing, usually to make money or get 10 minutes of fame. Most reports from from years gone were just that, reports, They made nothing from it. No notoriety, no profit, no fame, no nothing. So why would they lie?

I also tend to agree and think the point made above somewhere in the postings on this thread that the reduction of the amount of large sea mammals like hump backed whales may account for the reduction of sightings of large sea serpents who may have fed upon them.

It all remains for us in the now, an enigma.
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Agree 100%
 
kesavaross said:
The sightings of sea serpents/lake serpents/etc seem to span history. Surely all these people can't be lying or making it up or imagining something smaller was something bigger. Sea faring folk of years gone by were not stupid. They were skilled mariners. Most couldn't have known such sightings had been made by others.

It's rather like the Saxon accounts of finding a particular type of serpent or dragon in a well, how it was killed, and how it poisoned the well for year afterwards. Why would they lie? At the time, they accepted that as par for the course as it were.

Serpents or dragons big or small. In the past they accepted such creatures existed. They had no reason to lie. They didn't live in todays society of make it out to be something that's it not. That is a 20/21st century thing, usually to make money or get 10 minutes of fame. Most reports from from years gone were just that, reports, They made nothing from it. No notoriety, no profit, no fame, no nothing. So why would they lie?

I also tend to agree and think the point made above somewhere in the postings on this thread that the reduction of the amount of large sea mammals like hump backed whales may account for the reduction of sightings of large sea serpents who may have fed upon them.

It all remains for us in the now, an enigma.
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"Why would they lie" is a false dichotomy of lie vs truth. The most common result is misinterpretation because the observer simply doesn't have enough information to conclude what it is, so our natural tendencies for interpretation does the rest. They aren't lying, they are doing the best they can under the circumstances considering what they already know and the cultural influences upon them.

What's not reasonable is to assume many incredible mystery animals as a cause when there isn't yet good or additional evidence for them.
 
Interview with Sean the Son of Brian McCleary the sole survivor of the Pensacola sea serpent attack.
 
Sharon Hill said:
"Why would they lie" is a false dichotomy of lie vs truth. The most common result is misinterpretation because the observer simply doesn't have enough information to conclude what it is, so our natural tendencies for interpretation does the rest. They aren't lying, they are doing the best they can under the circumstances considering what they already know and the cultural influences upon them.

What's not reasonable is to assume many incredible mystery animals as a cause when there isn't yet good or additional evidence for them.
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This is very important. This is only an assumption - a reasonable one, but not necessarily a correct one.

I used to train people in a fraud management team. I still use some of the skills in my current (part time, semi retired) job.

It is a big step to identify something that is "factually inaccurate" or "inconsistent". However, it is a serious mistake to jump to the conclusion that "it must be a lie".

There are many reasons why someone might make a factually inaccurate or inconsistent statement. A lie (deliberate dishonest falsehood) is only one possible explanation among many.

However, applying this to sightings of an anomalous phenomenon, we do not know that "the most common" result/explanation is "misinterpretation". It seems likely to be, but we cannot possibly know unless we are able to make a positive and accurate identification of the phenomenon.

This is an example of misinterpretation:
"This is a photo of a sea serpent."
"No, it has been positively identified as a photo of an oarfish."

This is not an example of misinterpretation:
"I saw a sea serpent yesterday."
"That sounds like it was probably an oarfish."


That aside, I do not agree with the comments made by others above that historical witnesses had no reason to make dishonest reports.

In many cultures, both historically and today, there is a tradition of telling tall tales. Some stories are made up, and some true stories grow in the telling. It is a social game people play.

The person who puts themselves at the centre of a very tall tale, either as a protagonist or as a witness, is conferring status on themselves. The person who tells the best tall tale is admired for doing so.

This is not a good story:
"How was your raid on Ireland, Ragnar?"
"Not bad thanks. Fair winds and calm seas on the way across, very little resistance from the villages we raided, and we had a following wind most of the way back. We didn't even have to row. You know what? I feel really rested."

This is a good story:
"How was your raid on Ireland, Ragnar?"
"Seven fierce days we fought the foaming sea. Helpless we ran before the howling wind on bare poles, with frost rimed faces and frozen to the bone. I had icicles on my beard, and the helmsman's eyes were frozen shut. On the eighth day, the wind dropped and we had to row. The ship was attacked by a giant serpent and we nearly lost three oarsmen... (continue ad lib.)
 
Ogdred Weary said:
Hadn't the four teenagers bee determined to not have existed - no birth records of those names for the correct period?
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No, there is a grave for the one that washed up. All existed though i think some were born in other states. The question is, was this an hallucination brought on by stress or survivor's guilt or were they attacked by some huge, unknown creature?
 
We can verify what our brain can recognise? And that which it can't is likened to, I suppose.

The other are what is called, in Australia as, Bullshit Artists.
 
A Hudson River sea serpent...?


attachment-433175503_10163423425614867_7802088642145898551_n.jpeg


https://wpdh.com/hudson-river-monster-poughkeepsie/
 
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