Sea Serpents & Monsters

rynner2

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#1
Cornish Sea Monster

Richard La Monica is a sasquatch researcher, based in Ohio. In an article about him it was mentioned that his Cornish grandparents had told him about a monster sometimes seen in Falmouth Bay. I emailed him about this, and this is part of his rely:

"... My mother, aged 85, was born in Cornwall, but came to the U.S., with my grandparents in I believe 1918. My mother would have been around three years old then. My grandparents came to America, after my grandfather returned from South Africa, where he was a foreman in a gold mine. My grandfather's name was John Wood Matta. My grandmother's maiden name was Elsie May Fewins. They were both born and lived in St. Austell.

My grandmother never really mentioned the mysterious parts of Cornwall, but on occasion, my grandfather, usually after seeing something of interest on the TV, would say things like, "Richard, you know Cornwall has a monster in the bay just like that".
Usually, this statement would come just after an announcement about Nessie, or some similar creature. He would mention Falmouth Bay, when given the chance, but really wouldn't elaborate too much about it. He was a God fearing man, and I believe talking about such things, to him, was in a way
blasphemous. At least, that is the way I saw it.

I am not sure if he ever really saw the creature Morgawr himself or not, and I don't really recall that he ever used that name, but the way he would describe it, would indicate to me that he might have. His description was that of a serpents head, long, black neck, and large, dark body. I don't recall his saying how big it was in actual or estimated length, but the way he described it, would have had to be fairly large, and long. I am sure my grandfather spent many a childhood day, in and around the bay, as he had a very adventurous spirit.

I was a very young lad when he would sit me upon his knee, and talk of his home. I have probably forgotten much since then, but remember his talks of Cornwall rather fondly. I may still have a couple of cousins living there, but of the Matta family, my mother is the last. I was told, most of my grandfather's ancestry, had names from building materials. Kinda funny to me, but the names were Brick, Stone, Wood. My grandparents, have long since passed away now, but their Cornish spirits still linger on. I do hope one day to make an attempt to find out about my possible cousins, and to come see the land that was once my mother's family homeland...

Best Regards, Rich La Monica"

This is an interesting story, dating from well before the modern interest in the Monster: it became news in the 70s (which is when the name Morgawr arose). There isa lot of info about Morgawr on the web, and I think Richard's family memories tend to confirm other early reports.

Richard's Bigfoot website is at
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/6591/
(Hear a bigfoot howl...!)
 

rynner2

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#2
Oh dear!

Looks like Richard's mum has given him a slap on the wrist! He sent me a follow up email:

"I am somewhat embarrassed this time around. I got a few of my family facts incorrect. Actually, my grandparents came here
to the U.S. in 1913, not 1918. My mother, was born in Akron, in 1915, not in England. My mother, is 86, not 85. My grandfather, was a foreman, in a South African "Diamond" mine, not a "Gold" mine. My mother told me my grandparents, were actually born in Penzance, Cornwall, but lived in St. Austel. Wow, I think I flunked family 101. LOL I am sorry, for any confusion. Other than that, everything else I wrote about my family, is correct. Good to hear, huh"

This just makes this independent confirmation of the monster story that little bit older, which isall to the good.

I've said I'll forward any follow up on this to him, so come on folks, let's have some ideas. (I did post on this subject once before, but it must have been in the period of Lost Time, because that thread ain't there now!)
 

intaglio

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#3
rynner, I'm reaching back into the depths of my memory here and I'm not sure where its coming from but ... for what little it's worth.

Manchester Central Library had a good folklore section and back in the the period '68 to '73 (gawd that sounds so long ago) I would spend many happy hours in that section. Now the book I'm thinking of was kept close to the "Golden Bough" so must have had a similar Dewey code, was published about 1950 and contained folk tales from Britanny and the West Country, I remember that especially because it drew a parallel between the Tolcarne Troll and Yan an Od. Now one of the brief notes concerning a sea monster and St Michaels Mount. I don't know if it has any relevance. Good hunting
 
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Anonymous

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#4
"dinosaur/sea monster" pictures

Just found this page. It's a "Creationist" page that claims the earth is 6000 years old, dinosaurs and man have always lived together, etc., etc...... A couple of the pictures on the site were unfamiliar to me though. Specifically the first and last ones on the page.
Comments?

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=15

sureshot
 

DerekH16

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#5
Ever notice how these sites (and, come to think of it, books in a similar vein) almost always use photographs that are big enough to show 'something', but not big enough to show it clearly?
 
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Anonymous

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#6
The first one is obviously some sort of whale/dolphin carcass which just rotted in an "interesting" manner. That head is NOT a DINO head. Definately a whale head.

The last one looks like a plastic model.

My fav quote from that site:
These two pictures are of an apparent Plesiosaur caught by a Japanese fishing boat off the coast of New Zealand in 1977. It had apparently been dead for a couple weeks. It was 32 feet long and weighed 4000 pounds. Some have argued that this is a basking shark because the protein was 96% similar to shark protein. No one has ever seen plesiosaur protein to know what it should look like. Scores of vastly different animals have very similar proteins. This only proves a common designer for both.
Well, plesiosaurs are basically reptiles. They have bones.

Sharks are fish. And they have no bones (cartilidge is used instead).

Chances are shark protein = shark or shark-like. Not extinct reptile with a a skeleton.
 

SmirnoffMule

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#7
1st one, indisputably whale or dolphin...

last one indisputably a model. I bet you can buy that in a souvenir shop.

The Nessie is one of Frank Searle's, notorious for, guess what, his fake Nessie pictures.

The Lake Champlain one, I can never decide what I make of it. But strikes me as way too good to be true, and if you look closely, the neck doesn't seem to be connected to the hump, it curves off in the opposite direction at the base.

The New Zealand one is so decomposed, it could be literally anything. Basking sharks decompose to a very similar shape, however, and if it has sharkish protein... I'm going to stab in the dark and say "shark".

They've also failed to notice that plesiosaurs aren't actually dinsosaurs, they're reptiles.
Damaging any possible credibilty by picking the shoddiest collection of monster pics they could, and doing zero research.
Good old CSE ministry!
 

hachihyaku

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#8
First one is a whale.

Last two are basking sharks.

Third from last is - get this - an elephant. Look at it again and think "elephant." It's so obviously an elephant it's funny.

And here in the States they want to get this stuff taught in schools.

(edit: I didn't even count the last "stuffed" one as a picture. I assumed it was a model until I read the caption and they were trying to pass it off as a real animal!! What crap.)
 

Breakfastologist

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#9
I noticed that Texans pretty quickly voted the guy that had teaching Evolution rendered illegal out of office at the next opportunity. Whether because they actually disagreed or just didn't like being a global laughing stock it isn't clear.
 
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Anonymous

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#10
We still laugh at Americans.

That last one does look like a plastic model. But since the thing was stuffed and not moving, would it have been so hard to take a big and detailed picture of it?

That first picture, I remember I saw some solution tot hat. And it seemed really stupid when you realized it. But which one is an elephant?
 
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Anonymous

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#11
Oh my Gawd! It is an Elephant! Totally an elephant!

I have seen pictures of them swimming on TV. And that is how they do it!

The power of suggestion.....
 

SmirnoffMule

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#12
*g* a drowning elephant? Seriously, this is one of Frank Searle's. Living in Inverness, he's about as likely to find an elephant to photograph as a real Nessie. The picture is one of a series, all showing pretty much the same static shape. Even an elephant would move from frame to frame, right?
 

SmirnoffMule

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#14
I was in no way implying that elephants can't swim, and I apologise for any offence caused to persons who interpreted my light-hearted remark in this way.
It's just, if it is an elephant, it's only barely got it's nose and head above water. Probably knackered out after swimming all the way from Africa? (Or indeed, India.)

Frank Searle is a kook in the nicest possible use of the word, who used to live in a shack by Loch Ness, abd produced about 20 or 30 so called Nessie pix. If a single one was genuine, he must be kicking himself because the high volume of (very poor) fakes he also produced would discredit it entirely. Can't find the sequence of photos on the net, so I scanned them to my yahoo photo album...

http://photos.yahoo.com/nyarth_kyukon

and click on "my photos". The sequence of three is the one I think the CSE example was taken from, and there's another one, taken with what looks uncannily like the same model, only dated a year earlier.
 
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Anonymous

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#15
I looked at those photos. Pretty grainy and indistinct. What is there to show that these are pictures in Inverness and not say, Burma? Maybe he just bought some negs from someone who shot an elephant swimming?

The thing is, it looks EXACTLY like an elephant swimming. They don't float well, so only the top of the head is visible and the trunk (which is used as a snorkel).
 

SmirnoffMule

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#16
I suppose anything is possible!
It would explain why the "mouth" of the Nessie never seems to close (although so would it being a model/interesting treetrunk)

The 1972 pic, the one that shows the hill on the farshore, that looks like the Ness to me, although it admittedly isn't clear enough to be sure. Looking closely, I think the first in the sequence of 3 is actually a crop of this '72 picture. Whatever it is is exactly the same shape and proportion in both. Even the ripple pattern is the same.
The dates are screwed up, but Searle never was very accurate about such trivialities :rolleyes:
 
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Anonymous

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#17
What about the size? I mean the sea serpent is probably not the same size as an elephant head.
 
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Anonymous

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#18
Stunning, just stunning

That last one is a beauty, and it's in a 'Museum' (possibly the gift shop?)

Cheers sureshot, thats cheered me up no end:D :D :D
 
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Anonymous

Guest
#19
But how do you determine size when there is nothing next to it for scale?

This is something that has plagued Cryptozoology since Daguerre started mucking about with silver and dark boxes!

Many "Sea Monster" pics lack scale or perspective. You see an object in the middle of an expanse. So you can't really say how big something is or isn't.
 
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Anonymous

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#20
Sea monster footage?

In the latest issue of FT there was an article about a film crew making a feature fim recording footage of a sea serpent. It gave a link to the footage in the article, but I can't get hold of it at the moment. It doesn't seem to be in the "Links" section of this site, nor is the article archived, so I was wondering if anyone had the URL to hand.

While we're on the subject, this is interesting
 

rynner2

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#21
BLOOP!

Yes, Trollface, it is interesting: begins

"LONDON, England -- Scientists have revealed a mysterious recording that they say could be the sound of a giant beast lurking in the depths of the ocean.

Researchers have nicknamed the strange unidentified sound picked up by undersea microphones "Bloop."

While it bears the varying frequency hallmark of marine animals, it is far more powerful than the calls made by any creature known on Earth, Britain's New Scientist reported on Thursday.

It is too big for a whale and one theory is that it is a deep sea monster, possibly a many-tentacled giant squid.

In 1997, Bloop was detected by U.S. Navy "spy" sensors 3,000 miles apart that had been put there to detect the movement of Soviet submarines, the magazine reports. "

I'll try to dig up a New Scientist link. Nope, it doesn't seem to be online.

Back to the Bloop story, part of the US undersea network was supposed to come ashore in St Brides Bay, and be controlled by US personnel at RAF Brawdy in Pembrokeshire (Dyfed). Back in the late 70s (?) this was the site of several UFO sightings, and a book on them was called "The Welsh Triangle".

My Fortean nose starts twitching.....
 
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Anonymous

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#22
Ah, that's not the one I was after, but I'm thinking it's sea monster month. The New Scientist link is http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/scienc...loop/index.html

I looked up the link I was looking for last night, but it doesn't link to the footage, just to an article. This is it.

I'll tell you what, though, this page makes my skeptical side surface. Real monster, or way to sell videos? $19.95 Canadian (not including P & P) for 90 seconds of footage?
 
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Anonymous

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#23
Maybe the sound is a whale, just making a sound that it has never been heard making before. Sperm whales go very deep and we dont know exactly what they do down there, as they could easily find food higher up. The sperm whale's head has many very strange structures in it that scientists arent even sure of the equivalent structures to those in other mammals, so it is possible that one of these amplifies sounds to volumes that would have been otherwise thought impossible.

Its very unlikely to be an unknown mammal if the sound is only heard in very deep waters, as a mammal would have to come up for air very regularly.
 

Spookyangel

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#26
I've never heard of this one before, thanks. I wonder why this hasn't been widely publicised? Is it because not as many ppl have reported sightings of it as the Loch Ness one? Or is it because we in the South West are considered too far away from civilisation to be of interest?
 

rynner2

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#27
Perhaps it's because Cornwall is becoming better known now, with the Eden Project.

(Gerrans Bay is not a million miles from Eden, BTW - couldn't be a subtle publicity stunt, could it?)

I have some other Morgawr links somewhere - I'll try to dig them out and see if they still work.

Edit:
This is the best one. Sightings from well before Eden was thought of. Morgawr
Another one
More on SB

And finally, a Map covering the coast from Helford to the Dodman. (You can zoom and pan, although it's a bit clunky. Hope someone looks at it - it took me ages to set it up!)
 

Spookyangel

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#28
Well, if they start having Morgawr T shirts sold at the Eden project, we'll know it's a publicity stunt. I hope it isn't though, I love the thought of all these mysteries. :)
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
BTW Love the pic of the creature there.
 
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Anonymous

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#29
Good work Rynner

http://www.eclipse.co.uk/cfz/features/morgawr.htm

Seems to suggest that 3 possible 'Morgawr corpses' have been found. One C19th, one mid C20th, and most astonishing, one in 1976, at the height of the whole Mary F/Doc Sheils shenanigans. I've never seen a previous reference to this, and I'd be astonished if it hadn't been photgraphed if it ever existed.

In the text it's specifically stated that the mid C20th corpse was examined by marine biologists. Again, I've never heard of this, and if it happened, I'd have thought someone would have unearthed some records by now.

Perhaps I'm flaunting my ignorance, but the fact that I'd never come across this information before, and the lack of verification makes me really doubtful, and disinclined to place much trust in the text.

Don't get me wrong, I actually think that there's a good chance that unknown large marine animals do come close to UK coastlines, as there appears to be quite a lot of witness evidence, its just that I think this reference is a bit dodgy.
 
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Anonymous

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#30
its not been unknown for the Falmouth Diveing club to cook up a moster or two.... but Gerrans bay is to far for them to roam )probably) the sill looks like either a Shag near the camra or a seal a bit further away... i read one sighting report by a fisherman that sounded realy like a leatherback turtle too...
 
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