Sea Serpents & Monsters

blessmycottonsocks

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I might repeat something old now, I apologize if I do so. There are people believing the Megalodon is still roaming the worlds oceans. What do you think? I believe Megalodon is extinct, although, the worlds oceans are quite unexplored.
I think accounts of extant megalodons are almost certainly misidentified whale sharks or basking sharks. Both of those huge cartiligenous fishes grow to approximately megalodon dimensions (Wikipedia states "Several specimens over 18 m (59.05 ft) in length have been reported") and are a classic shark shape, so the appearance of and distance between the dorsal and tail fins would certainly look the part to an awestruck observer.
 

lordmongrove

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I think accounts of extant megalodons are almost certainly misidentified whale sharks or basking sharks. Both of those huge cartiligenous fishes grow to approximately megalodon dimensions (Wikipedia states "Several specimens over 18 m (59.05 ft) in length have been reported") and are a classic shark shape, so the appearance of and distance between the dorsal and tail fins would certainly look the part to an awestruck observer.
Author Zane Gray's report of a so called megalodon sighting is a perfect description of a whale shark.
 

EnolaGaia

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RE: The UB-85 incident ...

... I can't seem to locate any mention of the sea monster angle prior to a posting on Cryptomundo in 2005:

http://cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/sea-monster-attacks-german-submarine/

... which attributes the story to a student writing for the Drexel University Triangle. The Cryptomundo link to the Triangle article is a dead link.

The student author (Aaron Sakulich) seems to have written multiple strongly skeptical articles for the university paper, but the paper's website no longer offers any of his contributions.
For what it's worth, I've located the text of the Sakulich article. It's in 3 parts ...

Part 1 of 3:

Sea monster devours German submarine in fishy tale
... That's why, for my last article of the term, I decided to go back to my roots and write about a sea monster. Not just any sea monster, though: a sea monster that eats submarines. German submarines.

The year was 1918, and the war to end all wars was rolling to a close. Though the fighting on land was one of static positional warfare, what with the trenches and such, warfare on the high seas was a bit more flexible. The Germans had developed a formidable new weapon, der underseeboot, or "under-sea boat." A submarine. Of course, the British, not to be outdone, began to custom tailor their navy to hunting down and destroying submarines. U-boats were renown for their stealth and tenacity in battle: Often times, the first sign that there was a U-boat in your area was when one of their torpedoes appeared, heading towards your ship.

Thus, you can imagine the surprise of the crew of the British patrol vessel Coreopsis when, while sailing off of Belfast, they came across a U-Boat just lounging about on the surface. They were even more surprised when the entire crew of the submarine abandoned ship and surrendered. Enthusiasts in sea monsters claim that the crew of this U-boat (UB-85) was in for an experience "they would never forget." Whether or not they never forgot it, they certainly never talked much about it: All the sources I can find are second hand at best, "I heard once that a ship…" or "it was claimed that…" type of things. That should be the first sign that something is, if you will forgive the nautical pun, fishy.

According to the internet, that scourge of modern ethical reporting, the captain of the U-boat, a fellow by the name of Gunther Krech, told an amazing tale. The story goes that he claimed the U-boat had surfaced during the night to recharge her batteries and give the sailors a chance to have a smoke. While surfaced, an enormous sea serpent appeared and climbed onto the side of the ship. Then men, startled, began shooting at it with their sidearms, which apparently infuriated the beast and made it bite down on or grab hold of the forward gun. The sea monster was so massive that the U-boat began to slip to the side, and the captain feared that the open hatch might slip below the water level, flooding the interior of the boat and sinking her. The sailors continued firing away at the monster, who eventually grew tired of such things and left, swimming back into the mysterious depths from which it came, leaving behind only terrified sailors and a badly damaged submersible. In his little on-deck tap-dance, the monster supposedly damaged the forward deck plating. The U-boat would never dive underwater again!
Continued...

https://web.archive.org/web/2008061....German.Submarine.In.Fishy.Tale-1126460.shtml
 

EnolaGaia

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Part 2 of 3:

That is, supposedly, how the crew of the Coreopsis was able to take prisoner the entire crew of the UB-85. The captain is said to have described the sea monster as "This beast had large eyes, set in a horny sort of skull. It had a small head, but with teeth that could be seen glistening in the moonlight." Of course, because this is something involving the paranormal, it's not possible to trace the source that first reported these astonishing words. Just like supposed evidence proving the existence of UFOs, it's something a friend of a friend of a relative read on the internet somewhere one time.

This tale is amazing. It's fascinating. It's not even remotely true. There was no sea monster that night, and this tale is one of the many, many tales that gets passed around by internet and word of mouth until everyone assumes it is true. What proof do I have of this? The official report of the incident, as recorded by the British Naval Department: "(UB-85) Hit by gunfire of Coreopsis while attempting to dive. Resurfaced and abandoned by her crew at 5447N 0523W" Those last are coordinates that, apparently, mean something to people that are better at geography than I.

But wait, there's more! U-boat buffs and paranormal enthusiasts alike are quick to point out that this is not the only time when one of the Kaiser's great oceanic hunters reported a close encounter of the extremely strange kind.

Earlier in the war another U-boat, the U28 Schmidt was going about its' daily routine; that is to say, it was shooting at a British freighter. The U-boat was able to hit the freighter, the name of which seems to be the Iberian, with a torpedo and sink it. The Iberian sank beneath the waves, on her way to a watery resting place, and set off a tremendous explosion, either the cargo she was carrying or her fuel supply going up. Into the air was thrown, supposedly, all sorts of debris, including a 60-foot long crocodile. According to various sources, the captain of the ship described it as "…with four limbs resembling large webbed feet, a long, pointed tail and a head which also tapered to a point."
https://web.archive.org/web/2009042...n.Submarine.In.Fishy.Tale-1126460-page2.shtml


Part 3 of 3:

These two stories have a lot in common, in that they both involve gigantic sea monsters, and in that there is absolutely no proof that either of them ever happened. While the action reports of the Coreopsis lend credence to the idea that the first story is made up, the fact that no one can track down a World-War One era freighter named Iberian seems to shoot a hole in the veracity of the second one. Both UB-85 and U28 were real vessels; one can find all the information they want about them on the internet.

It should be mention that in none of the iterations of these stories that I've been able to find has any crew member from these two submarines been mentioned by name other than their captains. Maybe it's not such a coincidence that, on the various sites dedicated to nautical themes, only the captain's name is listed next to the name of a submarine.

Finally, one should always beware stories that don't have any sources. I've not been able to find a recounting of these tales of horror that have any source information more specific than "the captain said…". Where, when, and to whom they said these things is never mentioned; reputable publications in which their comments were reprinted appear to be non-existent. This especially should be a giant red flag to anyone interested in the occult and paranormal. It is the obligation of the people making these ridiculous claims to back them up with solid evidence and convince everyone else; I remain thoroughly unconvinced by stories that don't at the very least cite a single source.

So there it is: Two fictional stories of fictional sea monsters with just enough detail to sound right. As always, ask yourself which is more likely: that sea monsters are cruising around the north Atlantic and, for some reason, decided to make themselves known right about the First World War.

This is the last issue of the paper for this term. Next term, you've got some good reading to look forward to. On deck there's an interview with a fellow who spotted the Hudson Valley UFO of which I wrote a few weeks ago and, to my great surprise, a gentleman actually accepted my challenge to a debate on any paranormal-related incident of his choosing. It looks like I've got a busy winter break ahead of me. Be seeing you.
https://web.archive.org/web/2009042...n.Submarine.In.Fishy.Tale-1126460-page3.shtml

 

Tribble

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Sharon Hill

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oldrover

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I just saw a pretty plausible explanation elsewhere, oarweed. Or similar.
 

Mikefule

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Not a conger. The very big ones only grow to up to 3 metres, but most are much smaller. They tend to hide in crevices and hunt along the bottom of the sea in deeper water. I've seen many in their natural habitat.

Not an oarfish. They grow to 5 or even 10 metres, but they don't behave like that.

The camera is moving all the time, but as far as I can tell, the "monster" is pretty static in relation to the rocks on the shore, despite its sinuous movement that superficially resembles swimming.

Whatever it is is not alive. It is fixed to the bottom in at least one place. The movement is simply the "monster" undulating with the incoming swell. It occasionally breaks the surface and occasionally disappears. That is not the monster diving or breaching, but caused by the peaks and troughs of the swells passing. My guess is either a broad bladed seaweed, or some plastic packaging of some kind.

I remember being on Coll once and a few of us stood for ages trying to get a clear view of a dolphin or whale playing in the bay until the skipper of our charter boat laughed and pointed out it was a "rocky dolphin": an uneven patch of rock breaking the surface as a gentle low swell passed, giving a false impression that something was moving around a small area as different parts broke the surface.

As for the comment that it is "the first sighting of the Loch Ness Monster outside Scotland," that is just plain silly.
 

Swifty

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Tribble

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It's from the Discovery Channel's docu "Megalodon: The Monster Shark Still Lives".

But in the words of Vreenak, "It's a faaaaaake!"

https://www.theverge.com/2014/2/21/...egaladon-shark-fake-photograph-george-monbiot

Some problems Monbiot pointed out after crowdsourcing feedback about the photo:


  • Nazis didn't watermark photos with a swastika.
  • Sepia-toned photos are an old-timey trope and were typically used for family photos as an extra processing step on black and white photos to make them look better.
  • 64 feet from fin to fin would have made the Megalodon twice as long as it was in prehistoric times.
  • In the photo, the fins create no waves or wakes despite the Megalodon's size and probable power, suggesting it's just… sitting there, in the water.

Finally, Monbiot's readers located the source of the photo: it's a still from some footage of U-boats that is absent of any fins suggesting a massive fish.


https://arstechnica.com/information...lems-with-a-fake-image-used-in-a-documentary/
 
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EnolaGaia

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I've just found this pic on Facebook, the writing with it states:
'A military photo from 1942 showing what many scientists believe to be an extinct Megalodon shark surfacing next to a German U-boat.'
Frustratingly, no more details are given about it, I suppose it could be shopped ...
Old news ... We went through this case back in 2014 ... It's a faked image for which no evidence can be found that it pre-dates its appearance in a Discovery Channel program in 2013.

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/giant-shark-cryptid.3883/
http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/carcaradon-megalodon.1819/
 

Swifty

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Yithian

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Assuming a Type VII 'U-Boat' (the most common model of the war), we're looking at a length of a shade over 220 ft.

If the putative creature is really 64 ft at that distance, the scale doesn't look at all right to me.

The conning tower is located amidships, so that gives us an approximate half-length measurement for the vessel of 110ft from the bow to the centre of the tower.

If you keep on bringing that 64 ft object nearer, it's going to grow far too large for the measurement to be accurate.
 

Mikefule

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Sceptical! Not impossible, but unlikely.

The writer presents a big provisional conclusion based on body temperatures and the length of the digestive tract, and a small number of anomalous reports.

My first thought was the breeding cycle of the supposed giant turtle. Not only would there need to be a sustainable breeding population, but turtles crawl ashore to lay their eggs.

Of course, it is not impossible that a species might become ovoviviparious. However, even then, the young would need to survive and grow through all the stages from small to large before they became giant, and it would be expected that the smaller specimens might have been found in drift nets or washed ashore by now.
 

lordmongrove

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Sceptical! Not impossible, but unlikely.

The writer presents a big provisional conclusion based on body temperatures and the length of the digestive tract, and a small number of anomalous reports.

My first thought was the breeding cycle of the supposed giant turtle. Not only would there need to be a sustainable breeding population, but turtles crawl ashore to lay their eggs.

Of course, it is not impossible that a species might become ovoviviparious. However, even then, the young would need to survive and grow through all the stages from small to large before they became giant, and it would be expected that the smaller specimens might have been found in drift nets or washed ashore by now.
I don't belive a word of it! Posted for entertainment only. Other, larger sharks diid this. If it had been off the north coast then saltwater crocs would have been good candidates.
 

Sharon Hill

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They said this one is better: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...il-discoveries-influence-sea-serpent-reports/ Though the writer suggests mosasaurs have necks, which is silly.

I've read the paper and it is additional evidence that cryptid descriptions are correlated to images and suggestions in the media and associated social cues. This ties into the idea that movie monsters also strongly influence cryptid popularity - Bigfoot, chupacabra, Thetis Lake monster, as examples - a concept Blake Smith of Monster Talk podcast calls "Scriptids". It's not a surprise and is backed up by plenty of data that correlates paranormal concepts in general gaining popularity in accordance with media depictions. But, it's not always straightforward. Some things get popular while other things just don't resonate.
 
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They said this one is better: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...il-discoveries-influence-sea-serpent-reports/ Though the writer suggests mosasaurs have necks, which is silly.

I've read the paper and it is additional evidence that cryptid descriptions are correlated to images and suggestions in the media and associated social cues. This ties into the idea that movie monsters also strongly influence cryptid popularity - Bigfoot, chupacabra, Thetis Lake monster, as examples - a concept Blake Smith of Monster Talk podcast calls "Scriptids". It's not a surprise and is backed up by plenty of data that correlates paranormal concepts in general gaining popularity in accordance with media depictions. But, it's not always straightforward. Some things get popular while other things just don't resonate.
Prof. Chris French showed this effect in a Channel 5 (UK) program on Loch Ness. Unfortunately he didn't write anything, e.g. a paper, about it (I asked him).
 

Sharon Hill

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Prof. Chris French showed this effect in a Channel 5 (UK) program on Loch Ness. Unfortunately he didn't write anything, e.g. a paper, about it (I asked him).
I'd love to see a book on this. But I'm picky and would like to see it WELL DONE, not just some joker slapping examples together.
 
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