Secret Magic Societies Used As Cover By Sociopaths - Grrr!

[IbisNibs]

Dear mods, if this should be merged with another thread dealing with magic societies or true crime, please relocate it. This topic has put a bee in my bonnet, so I may have missed a more suitable place for it. (There are other posts that mention Clapham Woods, but this isn't meant to be about only that or about haunting. It's actually a bit of a rant.)

I just listened to the most recent Unexplained podcast (SO4 episode 18) which is about the weird goings on at Chanctonbury Ring in Clapham Woods in Sussex. The place sounded delectably eerie until the part with the mysterious disappearances of human beings, whose remains were later found in areas well searched after their disappearance. These mysterious deaths, the disappearance of dogs , and maybe even of a horse, on this site have been ascribed to a mysterious group that calls/called itself Friends of Hecate, a group that involves/involved "people in high places holding positions of power and authority." Presumably these people in high places can make witnesses clam up, since evidence regarding the mysterious deaths is very scant.

It's not a unique story.

Here's my beef:
1 - What kind of a sick f[***] needs to cloak their murderous tendencies by creating such a society, and who would be seduced into joining it if there was any hint of violence to it? Just admit that you and your friends are serial killers, and that you use your overweening sense of privilege, money and/or the threat of violence to coerce obedience from the saps who get sucked into your orbit. What's the difference between this and forming a criminal gang, or small time domestic terrorist group? There is no magic power in your activities and successes, just the dark side of human nature.
2 - Why do people greedy for personal power and dominance gravitate toward "magic" anyway? Why not just stick to crime syndicates, sales, politics and mid-managment instead? Why is "magic" conflated with "Satanism," and why are either used as an excuse to be domineering and lethal?
3 - Using "magic" and magical traditions to satisfy greed for power and domination does a disservice to people who follow neopagan or wiccan or non-European polytheistic traditions as spirtual paths. I'm not one myself, but I've been acquainted with many, and have been impressed with their sincerity, love of nature and kindness to others.

Forteans: thoughts, ideas, anecdotes?

 

[EnolaGaia]

Regarding the specific case that set you off ...

I thought the Friends of Hecate stuff had been widely concluded to have been an over-the-top extrapolation in a sensationalistic book, and this particular bit was subsequently promoted by one of the book's authors alone. I was under the impression the FoH stuff had faded away over the years.

 

[James_H]

This thread may be of interest

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/serial-killer-cults.63035/

 

[IbisNibs]

Thanks for the lead, James H!
(Geez, sacrificing zoo animals—that's low!)

I suppose it all comes back to the way sensationalist stuff often makes a more compelling story, whether you're trying to sell your media content or inflate your own reputation. The presentation of the Friends of Hecate rumor in the podcast gave me a strong impression of criminal activity, either disguised as creepy occult rituals, or perpetrated by delusional and disturbed individuals who actually believe in their occult powers. I think it was easy for me to form this impression in part because of the history of cults in the US—there is no shortage of examples of cults that ended in violence committed by people who actually believed they or their leaders wielded some otherworldly power. And of course, these have been sensational news stories when they broke.

 

[maximus otter]

...a mysterious group that calls/called itself Friends of Hecate, a group that involves/involved "people in high places holding positions of power and authority." Presumably these people in high places can make witnesses clam up, since evidence regarding the mysterious deaths is very scant.

It's not a unique story.

Forteans: thoughts, ideas, anecdotes?

“Operation Midland was a British police investigation into alleged abuse, conducted by the Metropolitan Police in London from November 2014 to March 2016.

The operation focused on the investigation of several high profile British citizens—politicians, military officers and heads of security—over alleged claims of child sexual abuse and homicide.

The eighteen month operation failed to find sufficient evidence to support the claims, and an inquiry into the police investigation afterwards concluded that the people involved had been falsely accused, leaving them dealing with considerable damage to their lives and reputations.

The culprit behind the false allegations, Carl Beech, was later investigated for perverting the course of justice, found to have been a paedophile himself, and eventually arrested and charged for his actions.

In July 2019, he was found guilty and sentenced to prison for 18 years.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midland

maximus otter

 

[Xanatic*]

If you want to commit bad acts and magic is an option, why not use it?

 

[James_H]

If you want to commit bad acts and magic is an option, why not use it?

Sometimes you've got to commit bad acts for the magic to work.

 

[Xanatic*]

It's like a magical biker gang.

 

[Lb8535]

This is a great example of why I am to say the least cautious about information from unknown sources. People will do anything for a buck and if it makes them feel important they will do it even more. And in the modern culture, people who would previously have been carefully pushed away are able to get their "messages " out easily. I have found over more years than I want to admit to that the major news sources are just as eager to print anything that will sell, but they also have the long range goal of staying in business and also getting your buck well into the future, and they won't if they print just whatever will sell today. I have also noted that they have absolutely no reluctance to stick their thumbs into the eyes of the rich and powerful if the story meets the aforesaid requirements. So I might treat a podcast as fun to listen to, but if I wasn't sure where it came from, I wouldn't treat it as news. Follow the money, always.

 

[Shady]

I like magic, the nice stuff, but they use it to spice up a story, peeps nowadays dont give a shite and mostly associate magic with sex and violence, it sells.

 

[IbisNibs]

I like magic, the nice stuff, but they use it to spice up a story, peeps nowadays dont give a shite and mostly associate magic with sex and violence, it sells.

Whether as false charges or entertainment, the occult and magical traditions are definitely exploited for "spice" value. This makes me mad.

This is a great example of why I am to say the least cautious about information from unknown sources. People will do anything for a buck and if it makes them feel important they will do it even more. And in the modern culture, people who would previously have been carefully pushed away are able to get their "messages " out easily.

Social media enables unverified information to go viral in a matter of minutes. It's important to vet your news sources, and keep your critical thinking cap on.

I have to admit that my critical thinking hasn't been so accessible lately, which is probably why certain of my "buttons" haven been getting pushed so easily. I've been reaching for my dunce cap instead. I think it's partly due to my current urge for escapism, but then I don't emerge fully from my state of suspended disbelief before I start jumping to conclusions.
It's a dangerous state of mind.

 

[escargot]

Scargy's experience.

Many years ago, before I married, I became interested in the occult an' all that, back when (as has been pointed out) it was seen as something a bit daft like astrology. I'd met some people who were into it all in a big way and was being invited to join in and have fun. Tempting.

However, they were slightly older than I was, mostly male, and I felt I was young enough for them to think they could exploit me.
My strong impression was that if I went for it I'd be skyclad and bent over some improvised altar before you could say, er, 'athame'. It was a sex cult.

I didn't fall for it but kept in touch with a few of them and it played out exactly as I'd expected; young women being dominated by and passed around between a group of creepy men.

This was long before this sort of thing was being discussed in the media and of course there was no internet. There have been criminal prosecutions over it now, although it is hard to prove. People, especially vulnerable young women, still fall into cults. Not me though!

 

[Lb8535]

Scargy's experience.

Many years ago, before I married, I became interested in the occult an' all that, back when (as has been pointed out) it was seen as something a bit daft like astrology. I'd met some people who were into it all in a big way and was being invited to join in and have fun. Tempting.

However, they were slightly older than I was, mostly male, and I felt I was young enough for them to think they could exploit me.
My strong impression was that if I went for it I'd be skyclad and bent over some improvised altar before you could say, er, 'athame'. It was a sex cult.

I didn't fall for it but kept in touch with a few of them and it played out exactly as I'd expected; young women being dominated by and passed around between a group of creepy men.

This was long before this sort of thing was being discussed in the media and of course there was no internet. There have been criminal prosecutions over it now, although it is hard to prove. People, especially vulnerable young women, still fall into cults. Not me though!

Yes, I did not mean to imply that people don't act very badly, I was trying to convey that reports of people acting badly need to be examined as to source.

 

[AlchoPwn]

It's not a unique story.

No, and neither is moral panic, but that doesn't mean it is based on anything true or real.

Here's my beef:
1 - What kind of a sick f[***] needs to cloak their murderous tendencies by creating such a society, and who would be seduced into joining it if there was any hint of violence to it? Just admit that you and your friends are serial killers, and that you use your overweening sense of privilege, money and/or the threat of violence to coerce obedience from the saps who get sucked into your orbit. What's the difference between this and forming a criminal gang, or small time domestic terrorist group? There is no magic power in your activities and successes, just the dark side of human nature.

Well, again, your problem would be utterly justified, and there would be public outrage, but first there has to be evidence that can be brought to a court of law.

2 - Why do people greedy for personal power and dominance gravitate toward "magic" anyway? Why not just stick to crime syndicates, sales, politics and mid-managment instead? Why is "magic" conflated with "Satanism," and why are either used as an excuse to be domineering and lethal?

Let's ask this another way... Why do people greedy for personal power and dominance gravitate toward religion? Why is religion conflated with social acceptability and why are either used as an excuse to be domineering and lethal, as history amply demonstrates? Frankly the number of people killed by Satanists is tiny compared to the persecutions of "crimes of conscience" by organized religion.

You must remember that humans are a species of carnivorous ape, and sometimes when their peer group smells blood, they become a hunting pack and reason and decency flies out the window, and social norms and taboos are transgressed to the detriment of everyone involved. This can be in a Church or a Satanic coven, or an ice skating rink, a school camp, you name it.

3 - Using "magic" and magical traditions to satisfy greed for power and domination does a disservice to people who follow neopagan or wiccan or non-European polytheistic traditions as spirtual paths. I'm not one myself, but I've been acquainted with many, and have been impressed with their sincerity, love of nature and kindness to others.

When you study the history of actual pantheistic worship in Europe, it was a pretty nasty affair. The whole new age paganism, and even the Satanism that we are presented with these days is founded on modern secular moral values and never transgress the law, but the ancient world was a gorey nasty place, and what people are practicing today should probably be decried for being inauthentic, and a tame and bowdlerized load of nonsense, that doesn't speak to the nature of the original practices they are supposed to reverence. In the case of Satanism, well, really there is no Satanism without Christianity, as Judaism's view of Satan is that of an adversary of man in God's service, and is thus incompatible with the antithetical view of Satan expressed in Christianity. In short, Satanism is merely a Christian heresy.

 

[escargot]

Yes, I did not mean to imply that people don't act very badly, I was trying to convey that reports of people acting badly need to be examined as to source.

Yup, I understood that. I was providing an anecdote!