Serial Killers

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,088
Reaction score
21,526
Points
334
Trevor Hardy, once known as The Beast of Manchester!

A serial killer of the 1970s, eclipsed in notoriety by the Yorkshire Ripper, but now largely forgotten.

His offending merited a whole-life sentence and he died inside. This short video raises a lot of questions . . .

Just how many of these offenders are there? :oops:

In the UK, women are killed by men on average every three days. So murder is still happening, just more on a one on one basis. Many have channelled their misogyny into online intimidation instead. Saves them leaving the house.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
9,167
Reaction score
20,851
Points
334
In the UK, women are killed by men on average every three days. So murder is still happening, just more on a one on one basis. Many have channelled their misogyny into online intimidation instead. Saves them leaving the house.

“Just for context to the issue, the following stats might be of interest:

1. The largest number of homicide victims in the UK, (by roughly 2:1) are male.

2. The largest volume increase in homicide in the UK is elderly victims (65 and over).

3. The group most at risk (the highest rate of homicide victims) is infants under 1 year old.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...le-were-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

Me, on FTMB, about 18 months ago.

maximus otter
 

WeeScottishLassie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
2,017
Reaction score
8,888
Points
209
“Just for context to the issue, the following stats might be of interest:

1. The largest number of homicide victims in the UK, (by roughly 2:1) are male.

2. The largest volume increase in homicide in the UK is elderly victims (65 and over).

3. The group most at risk (the highest rate of homicide victims) is infants under 1 year old.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...le-were-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

Me, on FTMB, about 18 months ago.

maximus otter
Yikes. Some scary stats.
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
7,241
Reaction score
11,077
Points
299
“Just for context to the issue, the following stats might be of interest:

1. The largest number of homicide victims in the UK, (by roughly 2:1) are male.

2. The largest volume increase in homicide in the UK is elderly victims (65 and over).

3. The group most at risk (the highest rate of homicide victims) is infants under 1 year old.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...le-were-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

Me, on FTMB, about 18 months ago.

maximus otter
It's why I don't like picking out particular groups of murder based on victim sex or age as 'worse' than others.

Obviously some murders are worse than others - murders involving torture or rape for example. If I was volunteering as a victim I'd rather have my brains blown out in the street, thank you very much.

Domestic murders can be particularly unpleasant as the preceding abuse can extend over years. At least Jack the Ripper killed his victims before he sliced them up - they can only have had a few moments of terror.

But the argument about whether it is worse to kill a male infant or a 35 year old female barrister or a 15 year old rent boy based purely on the victim's status strikes me as irrelevant and insoluble.

I don't know or can't properly express my feelings about murders where the motive is hatred of the skin colour or sexual orientation of the victim. I somehow feel they ought to be regarded as more serious but should they really? It makes no difference to the poor victim.

I guess too much influence on my thinking by Poirot - in his view any murder is murder and fatally taints the murderer, at least to the extent that they are likely to repeat the crime the next time they face a similar situation. (I know he is fictional :) )
 
Last edited:

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,088
Reaction score
21,526
Points
334
“Just for context to the issue, the following stats might be of interest:

1. The largest number of homicide victims in the UK, (by roughly 2:1) are male.

2. The largest volume increase in homicide in the UK is elderly victims (65 and over).

3. The group most at risk (the highest rate of homicide victims) is infants under 1 year old.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...le-were-most-likely-to-be-victims-of-homicide

Me, on FTMB, about 18 months ago.

maximus otter

I'm sure the three British women murdered in the past week will be very relieved.
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
7,241
Reaction score
11,077
Points
299
I'm sure the three British women murdered in the past week will be very relieved.
I'm sure it's not a comfort to any murder victim's family or friends that someone else has been murdered. But it is hardly going to affect the dead themselves.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,088
Reaction score
21,526
Points
334
I'm sure it's not a comfort to any murder victim's family or friends that someone else has been murdered. But it is hardly going to affect the dead themselves.

I know, I was being facetious. But murder rates are not a competition, I just brought up that statistic in relation to serial killings and how their most common victims, women, are affected now. Really, if someone wants to murder you it'll be far more likely to be someone you know than a stranger with a perversion or demented grudge.
 

Bigphoot2

Not sprouts! I hate sprouts.
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
10,244
Reaction score
38,494
Points
314
Husband of Bible John murder victim believes wife was killed by Yorkshire Ripper
George Puttock believes his wife Helen was killed in 1969 by serial killer Peter Sutcliffe.


Almost 52 years after Bible John killed Helen Puttock, her husband George says he believes it was Peter Sutcliffe not Peter Tobin who killed her.
George said Tobin’s denial earlier this month that he was Bible John – whose true identity has never been uncovered – has only reinforced his belief that Helen was murdered by the Yorkshire Ripper.
Helen, 29, was the third victim of suspected serial killer Bible John.
She was raped and strangled with her tights in Scotstoun, Glasgow, following a night out with her sister Jean McLachlan at the Barrowland Ballroom in October 1969.
etc
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/husband-bible-john-murder-victim-23769963
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,819
Reaction score
2,314
Points
189
I read a book a few years ago on them both but I can't remember the author.
I've a copy of "Fred & Rose" by Howard Sounes - fairly comprehensive and well written.

I guess too much influence on my thinking by Poirot - in his view any murder is murder and fatally taints the murderer, at least to the extent that they are likely to repeat the crime the next time they face a similar situation. (I know he is fictional :) )
Words by a fictional character, true, but from the author who obviously thought about it a lot.
 

WeeScottishLassie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
2,017
Reaction score
8,888
Points
209
I've a copy of "Fred & Rose" by Howard Sounes - fairly comprehensive and well written.


Words by a fictional character, true, but from the author who obviously thought about it a lot.
It might have been but I honestly can't remember.

I was a bit confused as it starts with largely the girls account who was the one who was caught twice by them and went to the police but wasn't believed.

Caroline was her name. Had a brain freeze!

It took me a while to realise that it started with her first!
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
53,417
Reaction score
30,872
Points
314
Location
Eblana
Chinese Serial Killers: how many are there?

Ted Bundy. Jeffrey Dahmer. Richard “The Night Stalker” Ramirez. These men, all united by their horrific acts, are household names in America.

But how many of us have heard of Yang Xinhai, “the Monster Killer,” whose body count was double that of Bundy’s? Or Huang Yong, who murdered as many as 25 teenage boys because he had fantasies of being an assassin? What about Wang Qiang, who murdered 45 people and raped many of his female victims post-mortem?

My guess is, not many. This is partly because they committed their crimes far away, in the People’s Republic of China. And partly because the Chinese government would prefer us not to know about them.

But to begin closer to home, how many serial killers are currently at large in the United States? The answer is, we don’t really know. Some sources say only about 30. Others argue there could be as many as 4,000.

How about in the PRC? That’s easy: Exactly 62.

This tally includes all criminals who fit the popular definition of a serial killer—a person who murders two more victims on separate occasions out of compulsion rather than necessity.

62 is the estimate provided by Dr. Mike Aamodt, compiler of the Radford University/FGCU serial killer database, according to an article by Robert Foyle Hunwick in The New Republic. To derive this figure, Dr. Aamodt was obliged to filter through unofficial English and internet media sources because the PRC doesn’t publish verifiable serial killer statistics. In fact, when it comes to reporting crime—any type of crime—the Chinese government is notoriously unreliable. ...

https://crimereads.com/the-search-for-chinas-serial-killers/
 
Last edited:

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,819
Reaction score
2,314
Points
189
Well, and I'm not anti-Chinese in any way, what do you expect?
Not that there are Chinese serial killers but that the Chinese government doesn't publicise them.
I mean, it's not as if the CCP wants to go on You Tube etc. and "big up" their criminality. And it's not as if ... they have to.
The Chinese are people, dammit, and they suffer from good and bad as do we all.
Is this story just a "revelation" of something that is (sadly) ordinary in a population or an attempt to make the Chinese more different?
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,280
Reaction score
13,769
Points
283
Well, and I'm not anti-Chinese in any way, what do you expect?
Not that there are Chinese serial killers but that the Chinese government doesn't publicise them.
I mean, it's not as if the CCP wants to go on You Tube etc. and "big up" their criminality. And it's not as if ... they have to.
The Chinese are people, dammit, and they suffer from good and bad as do we all.
Is this story just a "revelation" of something that is (sadly) ordinary in a population or an attempt to make the Chinese more different?
That reminds me of the film 'Citizen X' the film is based upon the true story of Soviet serial killer Andrei Chikatilo, who was convicted in 1992 of the murder of 52 women and children, he got away with his crimes for so long because the Soviet police refused to accept there could be a Russian serial killer, as they were the product of the decadent west.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_X
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,819
Reaction score
2,314
Points
189
This is the issue.
People are people and serial killers happen.
It all boils down to how the authority treats them and their impact on their society.
How it's actually presented, from one nation to another, becomes politics.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
53,417
Reaction score
30,872
Points
314
Location
Eblana
Well, and I'm not anti-Chinese in any way, what do you expect?
Not that there are Chinese serial killers but that the Chinese government doesn't publicise them.
I mean, it's not as if the CCP wants to go on You Tube etc. and "big up" their criminality. And it's not as if ... they have to.
The Chinese are people, dammit, and they suffer from good and bad as do we all.
Is this story just a "revelation" of something that is (sadly) ordinary in a population or an attempt to make the Chinese more different?

It's an article about serial killers from the Crime Reads site, just the sort of article you would expect to find there. This is the Serial Killers Thread, you'll find posts regarding Serial Killers and their activities from many different countries. No attempt to make the Chinese different.
 

WeeScottishLassie

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
2,017
Reaction score
8,888
Points
209
That reminds me of the film 'Citizen X' the film is based upon the true story of Soviet serial killer Andrei Chikatilo, who was convicted in 1992 of the murder of 52 women and children, he got away with his crimes for so long because the Soviet police refused to accept there could be a Russian serial killer, as they were the product of the decadent west.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_X
That's a brilliant film too!
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
4,819
Reaction score
2,314
Points
189
It's an article about serial killers from the Crime Reads site, just the sort of article you would expect to find there. This is the Serial Killers Thread, you'll find posts regarding Serial Killers and their activities from many different countries. No attempt to make the Chinese different.
Oh, I wasn't criticising your posting here at all.
I was talking in general; I think it's stating the obvious.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
53,417
Reaction score
30,872
Points
314
Location
Eblana
The Sons of Sam: New documentary series about The Son of Sam murders. It gives the background to the killings and the accepted story that David Berkowitz was the lone gunman. But it moves on to suggest the involvement of others and makes a decent case that two brothers may not just have assisted Berkowitz but actually carried out some of the slayings themselves. It then goes further to suggest involvement by The Process Church of the Final Judgement (and their Scientologist origins), Charles Manson and even the murder of a "Snuff" film producer. There certainly was evidence in the case which was ignored by police and a series of strange deaths but perhaps the net is cast too wide here to create an all encompassing conspiracy. Nevertheless it is an enthralling tale as it outlines the obsessions of one man, Maury Terry, who pursued alternate theories of what was really behind the murders. Written & Directed by Joshua Zeman. On Netflix. 8/10.
 

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
6,691
Reaction score
10,578
Points
299
Location
Hobbs End
The Sons of Sam: New documentary series about The Son of Sam murders. It gives the background to the killings and the accepted story that David Berkowitz was the lone gunman. But it moves on to suggest the involvement of others and makes a decent case that two brothers may not just have assisted Berkowitz but actually carried out some of the slayings themselves. It then goes further to suggest involvement by The Process Church of the Final Judgement (and their Scientologist origins), Charles Manson and even the murder of a "Snuff" film producer. There certainly was evidence in the case which was ignored by police and a series of strange deaths but perhaps the net is cast too wide here to create an all encompassing conspiracy. Nevertheless it is an enthralling tale as it outlines the obsessions of one man, Maury Terry, who pursued alternate theories of what was really behind the murders. Written & Directed by Joshua Zeman. On Netflix. 8/10.
Charles Manson? - he'd been in jail for nearly 7 years at the time of the murders.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
53,417
Reaction score
30,872
Points
314
Location
Eblana
Charles Manson? - he'd been in jail for nearly 7 years at the time of the murders.

It was connections to some of those involved, he had associated with them years before. However Manson continued to direct criminal activity from his prison cell.
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,280
Reaction score
13,769
Points
283
French serial killer Michel Fourniret has died at the age of 79.

"Jailed French serial killer Michel Fourniret, who murdered at least eight girls or young women between 1987 and 2001, has died aged 79, officials say.

Fourniret died in the secure unit of a hospital in Paris, the public prosecutor said on Monday.

Dubbed the "Ogre of the Ardennes", he was serving two life sentences for the kidnappings and killings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57061856
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
36,041
Reaction score
50,746
Points
334
Location
HM The Tower of London
Charles Manson? - he'd been in jail for nearly 7 years at the time of the murders.
The implication is that associates of Manson's had been part of the murder conspiracy earlier on.
 

Coastaljames

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
4,126
Reaction score
6,087
Points
214
Location
East Norfolk coast
It gives the background to the killings and the accepted story that David Berkowitz was the lone gunman. But it moves on to suggest the involvement of others and makes a decent case that two brothers may not just have assisted Berkowitz but actually carried out some of the slayings themselves.

I think it's now pretty clear that Berkowitz was a "useful idiot" patsy. He took the can for all the murders when he probably only did one maybe two. Others were involved. And in a pretty heavy trip occult/drugs/trafficking scene. That may, as these things often do, have friends in high places.
 

Lord Lucan

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
3,764
Reaction score
10,869
Points
209
I think it's now pretty clear that Berkowitz was a "useful idiot" patsy. He took the can for all the murders when he probably only did one maybe two. Others were involved. And in a pretty heavy trip occult/drugs/trafficking scene. That may, as these things often do, have friends in high places.

Two episodes in. It's an interesting theory and one possibly with some merit & truth to it. What will come of it? Not much I'd guess, but it all adds fuel to the fire of the mystery.
 

Fanari_Lloyd

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
318
Reaction score
818
Points
94
According to our local paper's website, police are investigating a cafe in Gloucester for evidence of another potential victim of Fred West, Mary Bastholm. The suggestion is that a body has been found.

That poor girl. I’ve read some books on the West’s, and she’s always mentioned. I do hope that there can be closure. It was long ago, but I can imagine few things worse than someone disappearing and never knowing what happened to them, even knowing in your heart they’re dead.

E.T.A.

For some reason the news made me think of that series: The Capture of the Green River Killer, which is partly narrated by one of his victims. At the end, she says her body has not been found.

I found it incredibly sad, apart from the whole vileness of all the murders, so forlorn.

So I do hope that they find Mary Bastholm.
 
Last edited:

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
53,417
Reaction score
30,872
Points
314
Location
Eblana
A really disturbing case.

Authorities in El Salvador are excavating a clandestine cemetery at the house of a former detective which is believed to contain as many as 40 bodies – most of them thought to be women.

The remains of at least 24 people have been recovered so far at the house in the municipality of Chalchuapa, about 48 miles (78km) north-west of the capital, San Salvador. Exhuming the bodies could take another month, officials said.

The search began after the former officer, Hugo Ernesto Osorio Chávez, 51, was detained earlier this month for killing a woman and her daughter. The suspect, who had previously been investigated for sex crimes, confessed to killing the two.

But when forensic teams searched his house, they discovered at least seven pits containing bodies, some of which may have been buried as long as two years ago.

Prosecutors have issued arrest warrants for nine other suspects who may have acted as accomplices. ...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/20/el-salvador-mass-grave-ex-detectives-house
 
Top