Serial Killers

WeeScottishLassie

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I've just found out today that I might be part on an online video interview with a convicted murderer, cannibal, necrophiliac (and satanist just for good measure). I'm not allowed to say who he is yet sorry (not his request but the person who's organising the interview), in his country police suspected him of more killings but weren't able to prove it so he got a surprisingly short stay in prison. He's released nowadays, married and regularly gives online interviews ... there's quite a few on youtube in fact.

He's told the organiser he's free to chat to us in early February but, joking aside, how do you even go about interviewing someone like this (other than politely)? .. of course nothing might come of this but again, he has a surprisingly open internet presence so the interview could very well happen. The organiser of the interview was telling me all about what a nice person his is today LOL. :pop:
That sounds brilliant!!
 

Swifty

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That sounds brilliant!!
I've got mixed feelings about it tbh. On one hand I don't approve of what he did but apparently he's as polite as Ed Kemper so I don't want to offend him and not just out of fear. On the other hand I don't want to be a giggling serial killer 'groupie' when I'm talking to him.

I've asked the interview organiser to send him a link to the necro comedy film 'Mortuary Academy' today, partly because I'm told he has a sense of humour about 'it all' these days and partly because the film features a cameo by someone related to Church of Satan boss Anton Lavey. I've found other things he might be interested in talking about but I don't want to give any clues as to who he is. And let's face it, the interview might not even happen anyway. He's not shy about going into detail about his crimes but I might ask him before the interview starts if there's any subjects he doesn't want to be asked about. That's just good manners.
 

GNC

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Documentary about Dennis Nilsen on tonight, BBC2 at 9. Made by the same people who did the excellent Yorkshire Ripper doc a couple of years ago. Like that, it will be focusing on the victims and why they have been continually forgotten in the Nilsen story. Could be good. But will be very grim.
 

Swifty

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Documentary about Dennis Nilsen on tonight, BBC2 at 9. Made by the same people who did the excellent Yorkshire Ripper doc a couple of years ago. Like that, it will be focusing on the victims and why they have been continually forgotten in the Nilsen story. Could be good. But will be very grim.
Thanks. I'll be watching this.
 

ramonmercado

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From the BBC:

A nurse accused of murdering eight babies on a neonatal unit has appeared in court ahead of her trial.
Lucy Letby, 32, of Hereford, denies murdering five boys and three girls at the Countess of Chester Hospital between June 2015 and June 2016.
She also denies attempting to murder five boys and five girls.
Ms Letby, who only spoke to confirm her identity, appeared via videolink at Chester Crown Court from a room at HMP Bronzefield in Ashford, Surrey.
The hearing dealt with arrangements ahead of the trial at Manchester Crown Court, which is due to start on 4 October and is scheduled to last six months.
Two further pre-trial hearings were set for April and June or July.

Mr Justice Goss remanded Ms Letby into custody until the next hearing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-60113578
 

GNC

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All three of the Nilsen doc's episodes are on iPlayer now.

I watched the first one, seems they're focusing on each victim as they were identified. As expected, unbelievably grim, the footage from the time holds an awful fascination. The man from Dino-Rod chuckling about the drains packed with flesh, all those vox pops on the street from ordinary people saying gay men disgusted them, the hundreds of cardboard boxes containing homeless young folks who came to London for their big break, and just got broken... It's extremely well put together, but such pitiful stories.
 

WeeScottishLassie

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All three of the Nilsen doc's episodes are on iPlayer now.

I watched the first one, seems they're focusing on each victim as they were identified. As expected, unbelievably grim, the footage from the time holds an awful fascination. The man from Dino-Rod chuckling about the drains packed with flesh, all those vox pops on the street from ordinary people saying gay men disgusted them, the hundreds of cardboard boxes containing homeless young folks who came to London for their big break, and just got broken... It's extremely well put together, but such pitiful stories.
I've watched the first 2 episodes and then half of the 3rd as puppy woke up.

I thought it was fantastic so far.

I'm so glad that as a society we have moved on so much from such horrible language about gay people and are generally much more accepting.

I know we still have a long way to go but it was really shocking hearing the derogatory way they talked about them.
 

GNC

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Just watched episode 2 of The Nilsen Files. I didn't think I had any memories of this case, but then - Nilsen flicking the Vs at the press from his prison van window! I do recall seeing that on the news.

Finding out they could have convicted him in 1979 was absolutely chilling.
 

brownmane

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I watched the miniseries "Des" with David Tennant playing Nilsen.

I vaguely remember that I'd seen an interview done by one of the survivors, most likely Carl Stotter because I had heard of his story before. Now I can't find any interviews so I wonder where I heard it? What a horrendous experience, and to bury the memory so deep as to think it didn't happen. What a courageous man to come in front of a jury and his murderer, especially in those times. Unfortunately he died relatively young.
 

GNC

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One last word on The Nilsen Files, there was news footage of a Dennis Nilsen waxwork at Madame Tussaud's a couple of years after he'd been convicted. They were asked why they didn't have a Yorkshire Ripper waxwork and apparently they decided against it because it would be bad taste. What the Hell?! So it's OK to take the kids on a day out to see a Nilsen in a fake jail cell?!
 

Swifty

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One last word on The Nilsen Files, there was news footage of a Dennis Nilsen waxwork at Madame Tussaud's a couple of years after he'd been convicted. They were asked why they didn't have a Yorkshire Ripper waxwork and apparently they decided against it because it would be bad taste. What the Hell?! So it's OK to take the kids on a day out to see a Nilsen in a fake jail cell?!
I saw that Nilsen waxwork 'in the flesh' so to speak. I was too young to understand who he was but we, as a family, visited Madame Tussaud's when it was being displayed. You walked into 'The Chamber Of Horrors', a life sized Adolf Hitler was in a glass case at the entrance to the room, as you walked deeper down the corridor there was a killer I forget the name of drowning a woman in a bath (the artists had even taken the time to hand punch in pubic hair on the victim) then a bit further down and on the left hand side stood Dennis Nilsen in a jail cell background .. for some reason, someone had hand painted graffiti style and in red 'One two three four five six seven, all good children go to heaven.' on the wall behind him .. without looking it up, I imagine Nilsen claimed 7 victims?.
 

pandacracker

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I imagine Nilsen claimed 7 victims?

16/17 I think.

One dynamic of the Nilsen case, and how the chance to catch him earlier failed, is because gay men knew they wouldn't get a sympathetic hearing if they reported an assault by someone they went back with voluntarily. And at least one (maybe two?) were 19 years old which, being under the age of (homosexual sex) consent, made it more difficult for them to press charges.

The parallels with the Stephen Port case are depressing.
 

Swifty

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16/17 I think.

One dynamic of the Nilsen case, and how the chance to catch him earlier failed, is because gay men knew they wouldn't get a sympathetic hearing if they reported an assault by someone they went back with voluntarily. And at least one (maybe two?) were 19 years old which, being under the age of (homosexual sex) consent, made it more difficult for them to press charges.

The parallels with the Stephen Port case are depressing.
I agree and not to make light of the actual Nilsen situation in any way, shape or form but me and the Mrs went out to lunch with my ex co worker who's also her gay bff yesterday. He's a hoarder and his landlord has given ****** the ultimatum to clean up or move the hell out of his top floor flat. Again. He's actually good friends with his landlord so we all agree the landlord's being cruel to be kind to ****** who confided to us "I've taken out at least ten bin bags of crap out so far" (so that's the stereotype about all gay men living in immaculately clean places squashed) .. "And because I live on the top floor, I reckon my neighbours probably think I'm a serial killer or something" (his place is a shit hole) .. so we were winding him up for a laugh and telling him we were going to put fat and animal bones in the drain outside his place then we're going to call Dynorod and then the police if he doesn't get on with it. :) .. because we're bastards like that but so is he.
 

Earthly oddity

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I am watching the Nilsen files and it is interesting to hear the family of one of the survivors talking about the man they knew. Poor man suffered from the trauma of what happened to him and needed support. I don't know what support was available to him at that time.

Anyone listened to the Nilsen Tapes on netflix? I listened to them - recordings of him talking. I never watched the Nilsen drama on BBC with David Tennant - but whilst I was listening to the tapes I could hear exactly why David Tennant would be the actor that you would cast in that role....
 
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GNC

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I would never watch The Nilsen Tapes because that is exactly the TV show Nilsen would have wanted, placing him as the star. I appreciated that we heard hardly anything from him on the BBC documentary, so the victims could have a voice. Serves him right, I don't care if he did have a great sense of humour. Aren't there still about ten victims unidentified? Shameful.
 

Earthly oddity

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I would never watch The Nilsen Tapes because that is exactly the TV show Nilsen would have wanted, placing him as the star. I appreciated that we heard hardly anything from him on the BBC documentary, so the victims could have a voice. Serves him right, I don't care if he did have a great sense of humour. Aren't there still about ten victims unidentified? Shameful.
I didn't realise that so many victims had not been identified. I don't know why there wasn't more of an effort to do this - even if it wasn't possible for all the victims.

The Nilsen Tapes was like a documentary, some of the footage was from others who were involved at the time. So it did feature Nilsen but there was commentary from those who were involved in the investigation and some commentary from those who knew victims/victims who managed to get away.

It is also interesting that Nilsen made some comments about his grandfather - suggesting there had been abuse. One commentator suspected this was a fantasy created by Nilsen (to influence others' perception of him/manipulate) rather than reality.
 

pandacracker

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I didn't realise that so many victims had not been identified. I don't know why there wasn't more of an effort to do this - even if it wasn't possible for all the victims.

Cost would probably be one reason. In the Tennant drama (ITV) I seem to remember the man investigating wanted to try and identify more but as they'd got enough evidence from the victims they could identify "them upstairs" decided to close the investigation and crack on with the prosecution. Sounds plausible.

Another possible reason could be "it's only a bunch of poofs" attitude. This was mentioned in the BBC documentary.
 

Earthly oddity

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Cost would probably be one reason. In the Tennant drama (ITV) I seem to remember the man investigating wanted to try and identify more but as they'd got enough evidence from the victims they could identify "them upstairs" decided to close the investigation and crack on with the prosecution. Sounds plausible.

Another possible reason could be "it's only a bunch of poofs" attitude. This was mentioned in the BBC documentary.
I hadn't realised how many victims remain unidentified until I saw the BBC documentary.

I feel very sorry for the man who tried to report what had happened to him to police and wasn't listened to or offered support. He looked so happy and had such character in the photos of him before - but giving information in the trial and not having the support he needed must have been awful. He may have been offered some support but he probably needed much more to deal with the PTSD fully. He had a sadness in his eyes after what had happened. His sister/brother speak so lovingly of him - and the man in Blackpool who ran a club had memories of his character/drag act. He continued with his act but the trauma took its toll on him.
 

escargot

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I would never watch The Nilsen Tapes because that is exactly the TV show Nilsen would have wanted, placing him as the star. I appreciated that we heard hardly anything from him on the BBC documentary, so the victims could have a voice. Serves him right, I don't care if he did have a great sense of humour. Aren't there still about ten victims unidentified? Shameful.

Haven't seen it yet but intend to. Not expecting any Nilsen-worship from it.

Edit for @GNC - I've started watching the programme. It is by no means a glorification of Nilsen. In fact the issue of his self-image as a famous murderer is dealt with early on. (No spoilers.)

An extract from the recording sets the convention that we will hear him describe what the police followed up at the time, and his voice is then heard intermittently giving his confessions.
Footage is of interviews with the police and journalists who were involved at the time mixed with actual TV coverage.

Here's a quote - 'Nilsen went round with his vacuum cleaner swooping up these victims, these vulnerable young men.'

Apart form having to put my fork down a couple of times, it's looking really good.
 
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GNC

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OK, fair enough, but I think I've had my fill of this case unless more victims are identified! There are only so many flesh-clogged drains you need to think about...
 

pandacracker

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There are only so many flesh-clogged drains you need to think about...
I agree, but this documentary only touches on those facts about the case. It explores the stories of who the known victims were, how they got to be in a situation were they met Nilsen and how the attitudes of the time, towards homosexuals and homosexual sex, influenced the investigation and reporting.
 

GNC

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I agree, but this documentary only touches on those facts about the case. It explores the stories of who the known victims were, how they got to be in a situation were they met Nilsen and how the attitudes of the time, towards homosexuals and homosexual sex, influenced the investigation and reporting.

Yeah, I saw the BBC doc, it was the Netflix one I was baulking at! The BBC one is a textbook example of how these things should be done, but I don't really get on with the Netflix house style.
 

escargot

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I agree, but this documentary only touches on those facts about the case. It explores the stories of who the known victims were, how they got to be in a situation were they met Nilsen and how the attitudes of the time, towards homosexuals and homosexual sex, influenced the investigation and reporting.
Yup, one of the early victims who was about to be murdered jumped through a closed glass window to escape and was treated in hospital.

As Nilsen had been (for a short time and unsuccessfully) a police officer he knew he wouldn't be charged if his victim refused to co-operate, and that he was unlikely to because of the stigma of homosexuality.

Nilsen was right. The young man's father forbade him to take it further and Nilsen was free to carry on.
 
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