Serial Killers
- Thread starter harlequin2005
- Start date
Tunn11
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2005
- Messages
- 3,014
- Location
- Under the highest tree top in Kent
This seems to be the usual go to concern about comic books, horror novels, horror movies etc
IIRC it was Stephen KIng who said something along the lines of; if someone murders somebody and is found to have been reading one of my books beforehand it makes headlines. If they were found to have beeen reading Jane Austen then no one cares.
Kondoru
Beloved of Ra
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 11,451
I find them boring.
Iris
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- May 22, 2004
- Messages
- 3,153
I think people always try to find something to blame for crimes being committed.
When I was young a couple of the local boys rode a motorbike to a nearby suburb and robbed a greengrocer, using the bb gun one had.
The papers blamed it on reading comics whereas the main culprit had always been a nasty creep, pointing his gun at anyone to feel big and shooting birds .
They both went to jail which ruined the life of the sister of the younger one who had been my friend at the time in Primary school.
She went off the rails, got pregnant and I lost touch with her till my sister moved to the same suburb where she lived much later on and saw her at the supermarket.
When I was young a couple of the local boys rode a motorbike to a nearby suburb and robbed a greengrocer, using the bb gun one had.
The papers blamed it on reading comics whereas the main culprit had always been a nasty creep, pointing his gun at anyone to feel big and shooting birds .
They both went to jail which ruined the life of the sister of the younger one who had been my friend at the time in Primary school.
She went off the rails, got pregnant and I lost touch with her till my sister moved to the same suburb where she lived much later on and saw her at the supermarket.
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 46,516
- Location
- Tending the grave of Mad Carew
Lucy Letby's case is under review again.
BBC link -
Letby did not murder babies, medical experts claim
BBC link -
Letby did not murder babies, medical experts claim
Min Bannister
Possessed dog
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2003
- Messages
- 6,418
I have to admire the first line of that story - changed slightly from when you posted it.
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2001
- Messages
- 53,433
- Location
- Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
I had a gut feeling about this from the start.
If she is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing, there needs to be a review of how the hospital gathers evidence in such cases.
If she is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing, there needs to be a review of how the hospital gathers evidence in such cases.
Mythopoeika
I am a meat popsicle
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2001
- Messages
- 53,433
- Location
- Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Well spotted. Journalists, hmmm.
JamesWhitehead
Piffle Prospector
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2001
- Messages
- 14,489
There is an analogous Dutch case, which relied, similarly, on statistics and judgments about the theatrical and narcissistic traits of the accused.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk_case
I had certainly not expected any inquiry to come to such an unambiguous conclusion. Like many, I had my doubts about the statistics, in a world of sub-optimal care. I was more swayed by the evident enjoyment Letby took in others' grief. Her scribblings could be more about mood than actual guilt, I suppose.
A very troubling case, for sure!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk_case
I had certainly not expected any inquiry to come to such an unambiguous conclusion. Like many, I had my doubts about the statistics, in a world of sub-optimal care. I was more swayed by the evident enjoyment Letby took in others' grief. Her scribblings could be more about mood than actual guilt, I suppose.
A very troubling case, for sure!
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 46,516
- Location
- Tending the grave of Mad Carew
What I've said all along still applies.
if someone is suspected of causing harm to vulnerable people, there's no time to hold meetings or review processes: it's a police matter.
Get the rozzers in and let them sort it out.
If the troubling events cease at the first sight of a uniform wandering through, that's a good start.
if someone is suspected of causing harm to vulnerable people, there's no time to hold meetings or review processes: it's a police matter.
Get the rozzers in and let them sort it out.
If the troubling events cease at the first sight of a uniform wandering through, that's a good start.
Steven
'There's no such thing as rags'
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2023
- Messages
- 2,456
- Location
- UK
Whenever I think about this case, it's a reminder that I'm totally unqualified to have an opinion worthy of serious attention; and so I've tried to be as 'neutral' as possible - because I just don't have the expert knowledge to decide where the blame might lie. Is it possible that we'll ever know the truth about Ms Letby's innocence or guilt?
escargot
Disciple of Marduk
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2001
- Messages
- 46,516
- Location
- Tending the grave of Mad Carew
Yes, I do believe we will know one way or the other. It'll take a while though.
sherbetbizarre
Special Branch
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 5,613
The Nico Claux Exhibition now is in Paris...
plethora devoid
Devoted Cultist
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2025
- Messages
- 185
How I solved the most famous case of a prolific serial killer untill I didn't
It all started when the local radio covered a book "I'll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman's Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer" This got a lot of interest State side and so I picked up the book and it got me interested in looking onto it myself.
The Golden State Killer was found to be what were thought to be four different master criminals were actually a single individual when DNA from the crime series were analyzed. The four different supposed criminal were known as the Visalia Ransacker, the East Area Rapist, and the Original Night Stalker as well as the Golden State Killer.
When the individual was finally identified it was discovered that he had two law degrees and had been a police officer. His wife was a District Attorney. Kind of an evil genius, a PHD in crime as a perp. while working his day job as a cop.
His name was Joseph DeAngelo. Each crime series stopped when the heat got too close and then he would change his modus operandi. He progressed from a peeper, to a rapist and then to a serial killer. The killings suddenly stopped as soon as police began using the new at the time DNA analysis technique.
As he he progressed into becoming a rapist he new from his training as a police officer that leaving any witnesses meant he would eventually would be caught and the victim ID would be the key to the prosecution and identification. After the first close call he chased down and killed two witnesses and after that he killed all his victims.
He targeted couples and would spend all night with his victim's in a sadistic encounter using restraints and then would bludgeon his victims to death. He was responsible for 13 murders, 51 rapes and 120 burglaries.
The case is really quite interesting if you want to read up on it yourselves. There is much too much of the story for me to tell so close to my bedtime, so here is the short version of my limited involvement.
Since so many people were investigating the case after the release of the book "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" that a number of forums popped up. Police investigators started a new at the time techniques for crowd sourcing the investigation using these forums as they had 8,000 leads to be run down. I became part of a group that investigators would kick leads to. Recognized my analytical ability some suspects were kicked to me by LEO. An investigator was specifically kicking me cases, due to his use of language I guarantee you a civilian would not have used which was the tip off that I was getting hot leads.
A breakthrough in breaking cold cases like these was the use of genealogy matching of distant relatives from online DNA databases such as 23&me to find associations that could be used to trace and narrow down a suspect through genealogy trees down to the present. This DNA technique was pioneered by an investigator named Paul Holes, he had used it once before to Identify another mass murderer who had four different identities that also had an odd connection to me as the first of the killing by this other mass murderer was very near where I grew up but both perpetrators wound up in California.
One day I was kicked a lead suspect that was the most sought after. A blonde California surfer type which was an exact description of the suspect from eyewitness reports. The lead was the son of an owner of a construction company and one of the crimes had taken place in one of the housing suburban tract developments. A map of the development was found that seemed to be a crime map used by the suspect with cryptic writing on it and seemed to been used in the planning and the commission of a murder sequence. Everyone on the forums knew about this map from the media and book coverage, it seemed to us one of the strongest leads that existed. If we found who made that map we would find the killer. Who ever had kicked me the lead would have thought it was the son that had the familiarity and the access to the properties and may have had keys as well.
As I ran down the timeline for the suspect using web based research he seemed almost too good to be true, a perfect fit. The movements of the son matched the changing locations of the murders very well. There was one inconsistency with the time line that I did not understand at that time although the location was correct. Needless to say I was very exited and everyone in on the thread discussing their suspects on the forum were hot to know the name of the my suspect, they knew all about the map and what that might mean for the case. Of course I kept it to myself as revealing something like that online linked to a living person would have very dire consequences to that person even if innocent. Online posters love drama and make all kinds of false accusations and then hound the innocent as well as the guilty equally. There are a lot of morons out there.
My intuition was buzzing in overdrive, I felt hot and over exited, like I was very close to solving this thing all by myself and others seemed to think so as well, it was almost like a dream where you get to be the center of the drama just like we all think we should be : ).
The next day I went into work and as I was listening to the radio at the desk and ruminating on the very compelling research I happened to hear over the radio at my desk that the case had just broken wide open after four decades and that an arrest was immanent. I was again overwhelmed with excitement. It had to be my guy, he was a perfect match.
Everyone at my depressing blue collar grunt job could not have cared less : )
I kept listening all morning to find the name and get to see if I would get some cred. but it was not to be.
The perpetrator was not my suspect after all, the small unexplainable glitch in the timeline was the giveaway. It had zigged when it should have zagged.
What had happened was that Paul Holes had run the family tree on some DNA that came back to a European family a member of which had emigrated to the United State. He had found some cousins that he was eliminating one by one. Driving up to a house occupied by Joseph DeAngelos the previous evening when I had been hot on the trail, he sat in the street debating on whether to go to the door and eliminate the last suspect of the day. He did not have all his facts in order and it was getting late, he did not feel this was going to be the actual killer. It was getting dark and it was past dinner time. As he sat there he came to the conclusion that tomorrow would be a better day, when he was fresh. That decision may have saved his life. DeAngelo was extremely capable and was completely able as proven by past situations to just turn and kill you suddenly with no forewarning. An unsuspecting visitor would have had little chance
On review the next day I think Paul Holes and his team updated and pooled all the investigation data to that point and realized that this was probably their guy, after all. This time they brought in the whole team and got some DNA from a cup in his trash (or something like that, it's been awhile so I am trying to remember the best I can without re-researching the whole think at 11 PM). They then went an knocked on the door and the rest is history.
Oddly this case never really made a splash, I think other events grabbed the headline that day and I don't remember him having a public trial. Perhaps a public trial was avoided (probably to spare the victims relatives as the crimes were especially dark. I only read through the cases once so as not to subject myself to that more than that once)
Anyway, this is how I solved the most famous case of a prolific serial killer until I didn't.
It all started when the local radio covered a book "I'll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman's Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer" This got a lot of interest State side and so I picked up the book and it got me interested in looking onto it myself.
The Golden State Killer was found to be what were thought to be four different master criminals were actually a single individual when DNA from the crime series were analyzed. The four different supposed criminal were known as the Visalia Ransacker, the East Area Rapist, and the Original Night Stalker as well as the Golden State Killer.
When the individual was finally identified it was discovered that he had two law degrees and had been a police officer. His wife was a District Attorney. Kind of an evil genius, a PHD in crime as a perp. while working his day job as a cop.
His name was Joseph DeAngelo. Each crime series stopped when the heat got too close and then he would change his modus operandi. He progressed from a peeper, to a rapist and then to a serial killer. The killings suddenly stopped as soon as police began using the new at the time DNA analysis technique.
As he he progressed into becoming a rapist he new from his training as a police officer that leaving any witnesses meant he would eventually would be caught and the victim ID would be the key to the prosecution and identification. After the first close call he chased down and killed two witnesses and after that he killed all his victims.
He targeted couples and would spend all night with his victim's in a sadistic encounter using restraints and then would bludgeon his victims to death. He was responsible for 13 murders, 51 rapes and 120 burglaries.
The case is really quite interesting if you want to read up on it yourselves. There is much too much of the story for me to tell so close to my bedtime, so here is the short version of my limited involvement.
Since so many people were investigating the case after the release of the book "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" that a number of forums popped up. Police investigators started a new at the time techniques for crowd sourcing the investigation using these forums as they had 8,000 leads to be run down. I became part of a group that investigators would kick leads to. Recognized my analytical ability some suspects were kicked to me by LEO. An investigator was specifically kicking me cases, due to his use of language I guarantee you a civilian would not have used which was the tip off that I was getting hot leads.
A breakthrough in breaking cold cases like these was the use of genealogy matching of distant relatives from online DNA databases such as 23&me to find associations that could be used to trace and narrow down a suspect through genealogy trees down to the present. This DNA technique was pioneered by an investigator named Paul Holes, he had used it once before to Identify another mass murderer who had four different identities that also had an odd connection to me as the first of the killing by this other mass murderer was very near where I grew up but both perpetrators wound up in California.
One day I was kicked a lead suspect that was the most sought after. A blonde California surfer type which was an exact description of the suspect from eyewitness reports. The lead was the son of an owner of a construction company and one of the crimes had taken place in one of the housing suburban tract developments. A map of the development was found that seemed to be a crime map used by the suspect with cryptic writing on it and seemed to been used in the planning and the commission of a murder sequence. Everyone on the forums knew about this map from the media and book coverage, it seemed to us one of the strongest leads that existed. If we found who made that map we would find the killer. Who ever had kicked me the lead would have thought it was the son that had the familiarity and the access to the properties and may have had keys as well.
As I ran down the timeline for the suspect using web based research he seemed almost too good to be true, a perfect fit. The movements of the son matched the changing locations of the murders very well. There was one inconsistency with the time line that I did not understand at that time although the location was correct. Needless to say I was very exited and everyone in on the thread discussing their suspects on the forum were hot to know the name of the my suspect, they knew all about the map and what that might mean for the case. Of course I kept it to myself as revealing something like that online linked to a living person would have very dire consequences to that person even if innocent. Online posters love drama and make all kinds of false accusations and then hound the innocent as well as the guilty equally. There are a lot of morons out there.
My intuition was buzzing in overdrive, I felt hot and over exited, like I was very close to solving this thing all by myself and others seemed to think so as well, it was almost like a dream where you get to be the center of the drama just like we all think we should be : ).
The next day I went into work and as I was listening to the radio at the desk and ruminating on the very compelling research I happened to hear over the radio at my desk that the case had just broken wide open after four decades and that an arrest was immanent. I was again overwhelmed with excitement. It had to be my guy, he was a perfect match.
Everyone at my depressing blue collar grunt job could not have cared less : )
I kept listening all morning to find the name and get to see if I would get some cred. but it was not to be.
The perpetrator was not my suspect after all, the small unexplainable glitch in the timeline was the giveaway. It had zigged when it should have zagged.
What had happened was that Paul Holes had run the family tree on some DNA that came back to a European family a member of which had emigrated to the United State. He had found some cousins that he was eliminating one by one. Driving up to a house occupied by Joseph DeAngelos the previous evening when I had been hot on the trail, he sat in the street debating on whether to go to the door and eliminate the last suspect of the day. He did not have all his facts in order and it was getting late, he did not feel this was going to be the actual killer. It was getting dark and it was past dinner time. As he sat there he came to the conclusion that tomorrow would be a better day, when he was fresh. That decision may have saved his life. DeAngelo was extremely capable and was completely able as proven by past situations to just turn and kill you suddenly with no forewarning. An unsuspecting visitor would have had little chance
On review the next day I think Paul Holes and his team updated and pooled all the investigation data to that point and realized that this was probably their guy, after all. This time they brought in the whole team and got some DNA from a cup in his trash (or something like that, it's been awhile so I am trying to remember the best I can without re-researching the whole think at 11 PM). They then went an knocked on the door and the rest is history.
Oddly this case never really made a splash, I think other events grabbed the headline that day and I don't remember him having a public trial. Perhaps a public trial was avoided (probably to spare the victims relatives as the crimes were especially dark. I only read through the cases once so as not to subject myself to that more than that once)
Anyway, this is how I solved the most famous case of a prolific serial killer until I didn't.
Last edited:
Swifty
doesn't negotiate with terriers
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2013
- Messages
- 34,686
I won't go into the whole story again but one of my team leaders interviewed Nico during lockdown. I'll send her this video thanks Sherbs. Nico's also got the hook that was still in the ceiling that the German cannibal strung his willing victim up on. He displays it amongst other stuff in a cabinet in his Paris flat.
sherbetbizarre
Special Branch
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 5,613
For some reason he's now made it private - I wonder what happened!
Swifty
doesn't negotiate with terriers
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2013
- Messages
- 34,686
I don't know but he's a weird bloke in general.
ramonmercado
CyberPunk
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2003
- Messages
- 60,419
- Location
- Eblana
A new BBC documentary, The Hunt for Peter Tobin.
On the day police found a second body behind a house once occupied by a murderer, the father of a missing teenager raised his hand, crossed his fingers and said he hoped it was his daughter.
Dinah McNicol was 18 when she vanished in 1991, after hitchhiking home to Essex from a dance music festival in Hampshire.
Her father had spoken to countless reporters since then and it just so happened that I was interviewing him when 16 years of tortuous uncertainty were coming to an end.
Ian McNicol had been left in such a dark place that he wanted his daughter to be the person in a shallow grave, because it would mean the family would finally know where she was, get her back, and lay her to rest.
His words laid bare the terrible cruelty of serial killers and they've haunted me ever since.
A new BBC documentary, The Hunt for Peter Tobin, explains how the murder of a young Polish student finally solved the mystery of what had happened to Dinah and a second teenager, 15-year-old Vicky Hamilton, who had gone missing in central Scotland six months earlier in February 1991.
Tobin was a registered sex offender on the run from the authorities when he killed Angelika Kluk and concealed her body beneath the floor of a Glasgow church in September 2006.
He was 60 at the time. The crime was so horrific, detectives were convinced he must have killed before.
Strathclyde Police launched Operation Anagram, a nationwide scoping exercise which tried to establish whether Tobin could be linked to unsolved cases around the UK.
Within months, officers realised he was living in Bathgate when Vicky Hamilton went missing in the West Lothian town.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g0ej1ljwpo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0028d07
On the day police found a second body behind a house once occupied by a murderer, the father of a missing teenager raised his hand, crossed his fingers and said he hoped it was his daughter.
Dinah McNicol was 18 when she vanished in 1991, after hitchhiking home to Essex from a dance music festival in Hampshire.
Her father had spoken to countless reporters since then and it just so happened that I was interviewing him when 16 years of tortuous uncertainty were coming to an end.
Ian McNicol had been left in such a dark place that he wanted his daughter to be the person in a shallow grave, because it would mean the family would finally know where she was, get her back, and lay her to rest.
His words laid bare the terrible cruelty of serial killers and they've haunted me ever since.
A new BBC documentary, The Hunt for Peter Tobin, explains how the murder of a young Polish student finally solved the mystery of what had happened to Dinah and a second teenager, 15-year-old Vicky Hamilton, who had gone missing in central Scotland six months earlier in February 1991.
Tobin was a registered sex offender on the run from the authorities when he killed Angelika Kluk and concealed her body beneath the floor of a Glasgow church in September 2006.
He was 60 at the time. The crime was so horrific, detectives were convinced he must have killed before.
Strathclyde Police launched Operation Anagram, a nationwide scoping exercise which tried to establish whether Tobin could be linked to unsolved cases around the UK.
Within months, officers realised he was living in Bathgate when Vicky Hamilton went missing in the West Lothian town.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g0ej1ljwpo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0028d07
ramonmercado
CyberPunk
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2003
- Messages
- 60,419
- Location
- Eblana
Body of victim recovered.
The remains of an indigenous woman murdered by a serial killer have been found after a search of a landfill in the Canadian province of Manitoba, police say.
Morgan Harris' remains were recovered at the Prairie Green Landfill, north of the city of Winnipeg, said officials. Authorities had been searching for Harris, 39, and Marcedes Myran, 26, both of Long Plain First Nation. Police say two sets of remains have been found.
Harris and Myran were among four indigenous women killed in 2022 by convicted murderer Jeremy Skibicki, who dumped their bodies in two different landfills over a three-month span.
The search of the Prairie Green Landfill began late last year following a lengthy pressure campaign by indigenous leaders.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqlyz04q23qo
brownmane
off kilter
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2019
- Messages
- 6,100
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Despite the arguments against searching the landfill, it didn’t take long after the search started to find them - even two years later. Along with families and friends, Premier Wab Kinew, himself indigenous, proved it can be done.
ramonmercado
CyberPunk
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2003
- Messages
- 60,419
- Location
- Eblana
He's one nasty piece of work but he might not be a serial killer.
In the late 1980s, the bodies of six missing girls and young women were found buried in shallow graves in the desert of El Paso, Texas. Most of the bodies were too decomposed to determine a cause of death, but there were signs that some of the victims had been sexually assaulted. As the death count rose, the El Paso Police Department faced increasing pressure to find and arrest the so-called “Desert Killer.”
“There are girls being killed out there. The public wants to know what we are doing,” the deputy chief of police told the El Paso Herald-Post in November 1987. “The department is feeling an impact never felt before because of the notoriety of the case, the serial killer aspect.”
It wasn’t long until the police zeroed in on David Wood, a man with a history of sexual assault convictions. The evidence against Wood was purely circumstantial, the state would later admit. Prosecutors centered their case around testimony from jailhouse informants who had incentives to lie, and on acrylic fibers from a vacuum cleaner bag in Wood’s apartment that were similar to fibers found on one of the victim’s bodies.
Despite the inconclusiveness of the evidence, in 1992, Wood was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death.
Wood has steadfastly maintained his innocence. “I’ve been trying for 30 years to tell people I didn’t do this,” he recently told The Texas Observer.
For decades, Wood has been unable to get relief in court — until now, just two days before he was to die by lethal injection in the Texas death chamber. Earlier this month, Wood’s longtime lawyer filed a nearly 400-page petition laying out the case for his innocence and asking a judge to halt the execution.
On Tuesday, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals granted Wood a rare stay of execution to allow time to review some of his claims. ...
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-grant-david-wood-execution-stay_n_67d0b61fe4b02a1e69bda2f2
Man Convicted In Serial Killer Case Gets Stay Of Execution As Court Considers Innocence Claim
David Wood, who was scheduled to be executed in Texas on Thursday, has maintained for decades that he is not the so-called "Desert Killer."In the late 1980s, the bodies of six missing girls and young women were found buried in shallow graves in the desert of El Paso, Texas. Most of the bodies were too decomposed to determine a cause of death, but there were signs that some of the victims had been sexually assaulted. As the death count rose, the El Paso Police Department faced increasing pressure to find and arrest the so-called “Desert Killer.”
“There are girls being killed out there. The public wants to know what we are doing,” the deputy chief of police told the El Paso Herald-Post in November 1987. “The department is feeling an impact never felt before because of the notoriety of the case, the serial killer aspect.”
It wasn’t long until the police zeroed in on David Wood, a man with a history of sexual assault convictions. The evidence against Wood was purely circumstantial, the state would later admit. Prosecutors centered their case around testimony from jailhouse informants who had incentives to lie, and on acrylic fibers from a vacuum cleaner bag in Wood’s apartment that were similar to fibers found on one of the victim’s bodies.
Despite the inconclusiveness of the evidence, in 1992, Wood was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death.
Wood has steadfastly maintained his innocence. “I’ve been trying for 30 years to tell people I didn’t do this,” he recently told The Texas Observer.
For decades, Wood has been unable to get relief in court — until now, just two days before he was to die by lethal injection in the Texas death chamber. Earlier this month, Wood’s longtime lawyer filed a nearly 400-page petition laying out the case for his innocence and asking a judge to halt the execution.
On Tuesday, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals granted Wood a rare stay of execution to allow time to review some of his claims. ...
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-grant-david-wood-execution-stay_n_67d0b61fe4b02a1e69bda2f2