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Barry George? Colin Stagg? The two separate 'Cardiff Threes'? There are others.

Maybe don't meet your exact definition of 'fitting up'.

I'm not suggesting this is normal practice. But it happens.

Barry George was not “fitted up”.

Colin Stagg? Debatably overzealous attempts to get a suspect to confess by using an undercover officer to fake a romantic attachment to him.

One “Cardiff Three” was based on a confession by one of the gang; hardly “planting evidence”.

The other - 34 years ago - I’ll concede.

maximus otter
 
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I really don't want to prolong the debate on 'fitting up' because it wasn't central to the point I was trying - and failing - to make.

Barry George was convicted on one piece of 'concrete' evidence - firearms residue found a year later. How that came to be there was subsequently one of the reasons his appeal was successful.

The Cardiff three 'confession' - well, it was worthless wasn't it? How it was acquired - whether the person had a compulsive need to confess - hardly unknown - or something else happened we'll never know. But it clearly wasn't checked out properly.

I'm not intending a witch-hunt against the Police, then or now. Mistakes are made, sometimes bad apples occur. It's not just the Police that have difficulty with admitting the mistakes that arise in the course of duty. In pretty much all walks of life the mistakes get remembered and picked over more than the successes, and the PTB's resent that.

However I'm hardly alone in thinking (and hoping) that certain attitudes of policing from decades ago needed to (and have?) changed.

Unfortunately other changes that have happened to the Police Force in parallel cause me seriously to debate whether in general we were better off with the old or the new model.

(edited for spelling mistakes)
 
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When I was still at school, a female friend of mine used to say that if she was ever murdered, the press would report that she had a macabre fascination with serial killers, as she had a few books on them - and this was over 30 years ago. My cyber-friend in the US likes nothing better than true crime TV. There have always been people interested in serial killers, some of them very unlikely, but most of them don't then go out and do what this particular scumbag did. So I can see this discussion from both sides. (I will also add that I went to Uni on Plymouth, as did my eldest, and he now has a house not that far from where the victim's body was dumped...)
I kind of agree with this. I think the headline about fascination/obsession with serial killers is to grab readers’ attention. Even if the person said he had an obsession with serial killers, I wonder if a “chicken and egg” situation is more what it is. This person has, to my minimal knowledge, not had any professional assessment. So my question (though I think it unnecessary) is, was he first obsessed with serial killers and subsequently imitated them because of this, or did he have murderous ideations and thoughts that led to him reading up on murderers and using their methods to successfully complete a killing? Unless this person is very self aware, I doubt even he knows.

It kind of reminds me about all the hype that is brought up around people who have committed violent crimes and then, upon further investigation to the crime, it being found that the person played violent video games. I play violent video games and read and watch horror. I even occasionally have a chuckle over a spectacular kill. I have very dark sense of humour. Do I have any murderous intent? No.
 
Hold tight. My crew's recently interviewed online Nicholas Claux, a convicted killer, grave robber, cannibal and blood drinker who was given the nickname 'The Vampire of Paris' .. he doesn't like that nickname but for some reason he prefers 'the cannibal killer'. This video is fresh up tonight, I was asked to do this interview but I wasn't comfortable with glorifying his crimes plus we decided that Roseanna, a self confessed flirt would probably be able to get more details from him. We normally only do ghost invest videos so this is new to us. Our next one might be talking to a genuine ex curate who's been involved in exorcisms who I had breakfast with the other day so I'm looking forward to talking to and filming him from his Christian faith perspective. Anyway, this Nico interview shouldn't be played in front on children. The French police feel he's a serial killer but they weren't able to prove it. I don't want to spam the board with a link to our channel but if anyone want's a link to it then send me a pm ..

 
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Hold tight. My crew's recently interviewed online Nicholas Claux, a convicted killer, grave robber, cannibal and blood drinker who was given the nickname 'The Vampire of Paris' .. he doesn't like that nickname but for some reason he prefers 'the cannibal killer'. This video is fresh up tonight, I was asked to do this interview but I wasn't comfortable with glorifying his crimes plus we decided that Roseanna, a self confessed flirt would probably be able to get more details from him. We normally only do ghost invest videos so this is new to us. Our next one might be talking to a genuine ex curate who's been involved in exorcisms who I had breakfast with the other day so I'm looking forward to talking to and filming him from his Christian faith perspective. Anyway, this Nico interview shouldn't be played in front on children. The French police feel he's a serial killer but they weren't able to prove it. I don't want to spam the board with a link to our channel but if anyone want's a ink to it then send me a pm ..

There's a blast from the past, I remember his personal website from about 20 years ago on the internet.
 
There's a blast from the past, I remember his personal website from about 20 years ago on the internet.
I didn't know he had one James? .. can you remember what it was called so I can look for it with wayback machine please?
 
I kind of agree with this. I think the headline about fascination/obsession with serial killers is to grab readers’ attention. Even if the person said he had an obsession with serial killers, I wonder if a “chicken and egg” situation is more what it is. This person has, to my minimal knowledge, not had any professional assessment. So my question (though I think it unnecessary) is, was he first obsessed with serial killers and subsequently imitated them because of this, or did he have murderous ideations and thoughts that led to him reading up on murderers and using their methods to successfully complete a killing? Unless this person is very self aware, I doubt even he knows.

It kind of reminds me about all the hype that is brought up around people who have committed violent crimes and then, upon further investigation to the crime, it being found that the person played violent video games. I play violent video games and read and watch horror. I even occasionally have a chuckle over a spectacular kill. I have very dark sense of humour. Do I have any murderous intent? No.
Didn't Stephen King make this point many years ago? IIRC he said something to the effect that if a man is seen reading a horror novel just before murdereing a few people the effect of horror fiction on people will be all over the media; but if he was reading Jane Austen, well that couldn't possibly have anything to do with his actions.
 

Klutuk, the Mad Trapper of Bristol Bay


During the first decades of the 20th century, a murderous trapper haunted the upper watersheds draining into Bristol Bay and the Kuskokwim River [ in Alaska]. His life, identity, and even death are shrouded in mystery. Newspapers claimed he was Yup’ik, and that he murdered an unknown number of people—mostly trappers and prospectors that crowded his vast territory. He was called Klutuk, named after a small tributary of the Nushagak River where one of his camps was located. The Kusko Times reported in 1931 that Klutuk “was born in the Nushagak River district about 38 years ago. He first became notorious in 1919, when it is said his career of crime started by killing two natives and announcing he would kill two more. Subsequent events indicated that he did not stop at that. From that time until his death he had the entire upper Nushagak district under his control.”

nushagak_map.jpg


Some accounts claimed Klutuk was a giant. Others that he was small man. Some said he was more than a man. He was allegedly heard saying he viewed killing a person as no different than shooting a moose. His only companion was a small black dog. The Kusko Times wrote that it was believed he’d murdered 20 or more people and that, “Through some system unknown to the whites, he kept himself constantly in touch with what was going on throughout the district. He seemed to know when any man entered his territory and he resented all such intrusions. Disdaining to use the weapons known to civilization for his own needs, he shot his game with bow and arrow; but he packed a .30-30 rifle for his human prey.”

Territorial marshals, deputies, and friends of the murdered and disappeared began a manhunt. The search spanned thousands of square miles and lasted for years. In 1929 the Wrangell Sentinel and Kusko Times reported that Klutuk had been killed, but they didn’t give much evidence. Locals from Dillingham hinted that justice had been served but didn’t offer any details other than that no one had been murdered in the Nushagak district that winter. Sightings of Klutuk soon began being reported again. In the summer of 1931, a deputy United States marshal named Stanley Nichols reported finding a corpse in a cabin near the headwaters of the Mulchatna River that he thought was Klutuk. Nichols, no doubt under significant pressure to close the case on the mad trapper and help open the region to development, said “Klutuk” appeared to have died from natural causes. Many believed Nichol’s report was purposely falsified. But according to the authorities, Klutuk was officially dead. Newspapers across Alaska celebrated.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/klutuk-the-mad-trapper-of-bristol-bay/

maximus otter
 
Something doesn't ring true about Nicolas Claux. During his trial there was no mention of grave robbery, necrophilia, vampirism or cannibalism.

He served 7 years and four months of a 12 year sentence for murdering a man and trying to buy a video camera with his forged driving licence.

Psychiatrists diagnosed him with schizophrenia and personality disorder.

When he was released from prison he set up a website to promote his artwork of serial killers. And that's when he starting telling stories of his alleged crimes. As usual the media lapped it up. He started getting booked on TV shows where he became a minor celebrity.

He's most likely just a fantasist.
 
Hold tight. My crew's recently interviewed online Nicholas Claux, a convicted killer, grave robber, cannibal and blood drinker who was given the nickname 'The Vampire of Paris' .. he doesn't like that nickname but for some reason he prefers 'the cannibal killer'. This video is fresh up tonight, I was asked to do this interview but I wasn't comfortable with glorifying his crimes plus we decided that Roseanna, a self confessed flirt would probably be able to get more details from him. We normally only do ghost invest videos so this is new to us. Our next one might be talking to a genuine ex curate who's been involved in exorcisms who I had breakfast with the other day so I'm looking forward to talking to and filming him from his Christian faith perspective. Anyway, this Nico interview shouldn't be played in front on children. The French police feel he's a serial killer but they weren't able to prove it. I don't want to spam the board with a link to our channel but if anyone want's a link to it then send me a pm ..


He now has a website selling his artwork & true crime memorabilia.
 
He now has a website selling his artwork & true crime memorabilia.
Yep, he has .. which was partly why I turned down talking with him. Roseanna did the interview video instead because we also felt he'd feel more comfortable with a woman interviewer although bothering women on any level is one thing he's never been accused of. I'll try and find the name of but there's a condition that draws some people to drinking blood. I think it's called Necrophacia without looking it up? .. he's into that instead. His only request was that we didn't call the vid The Vampire Of Paris (he's still pissed off that the French media invented that term but for some reason he didn't mind being called The Cannibal Killer .. a stereotype narcissist ..

I suppose selling his own crap is his only option nowadays .. no one's going to want to hire him now.
 
Yep, he has .. which was partly why I turned down talking with him. Roseanna did the interview video instead because we also felt he'd feel more comfortable with a woman interviewer although bothering women on any level is one thing he's never been accused of. I'll try and find the name of but there's a condition that draws some people to drinking blood. I think it's called Necrophacia without looking it up? .. he's into that instead. His only request was that we didn't call the vid The Vampire Of Paris (he's still pissed off that the French media invented that term but for some reason he didn't mind being called The Cannibal Killer .. a stereotype narcissist ..

I suppose selling his own crap is his only option nowadays .. no one's going to want to hire him now.
I don't believe he'd want to work for anyone but himself. He can "create" and work as he wisshes. Not to what someone else dictates.

Renfeild's Syndrome: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_vampirism
 
Cottingham charged with another murder.

A serial killer has been accused of killing a woman whose body was found in the car park of a shopping centre on New York’s Long Island over 50 years ago.

Richard Cottingham was charged on Wednesday in connection with Diane Cusick’s death in 1968. From a hospital bed in New Jersey, where he is already serving a life sentence for 11 other killings, he pleaded not guilty.

While he has claimed he was responsible for up to 100 murders, authorities in New York and New Jersey have officially linked him to only a dozen so far, including Cusick’s death.

He has been imprisoned since 1980, when he was arrested after a motel maid heard a woman screaming inside his room. Authorities found her alive but bound with handcuffs and suffering from bite marks and knife wounds.

Cottingham asked to be arraigned on Wednesday by video feed from the New Jersey hospital because he was in poor health, bedridden and not ambulatory, judge Caryn Fink said.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40901912.html
 
A decent documentary on Ed Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer.

'The Co-Ed Killer' synopsis: In 1972, Santa Cruz, Calif police fear multiple serial killers are operating at the same time, as human remains wash upon the shores of the seaside community; victims include children, students, pedestrians and hitchhikers.

 
Love that Cottingham article - "authorities in New York and New Jersey have officially linked him to only a dozen so far, including Cusick’s death."

Only a dozen. I guess that's a relief.
 
A decent documentary on Ed Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer.

'The Co-Ed Killer' synopsis: In 1972, Santa Cruz, Calif police fear multiple serial killers are operating at the same time, as human remains wash upon the shores of the seaside community; victims include children, students, pedestrians and hitchhikers.


Actor Cameron Britton was nominated for an Emmy for his chillingly accurate portrayal of Kemper in the excellent Mindhunter.

maximus otter
 
The Story of Sheslay Free Mike, an Infamous, Mad, and Murderous Woodsman of the North Country

Michael Oros arrived in the wilds of northwest British Columbia in 1972 with a peach-fuzz beard, carrying a bamboo flute. Henry Vance, a First Nation Tahltan man who spent winters caretaking a hunting guide’s cabins and horses in Sheslay, an abandoned Native village and mining settlement, encountered Oros hiking along the trail from Telegraph Creek. When Oros moved into a deserted cabin, Vance suddenly found himself with a neighbor.

iu


Oros

In the beginning, Vance and his wife had to take care of the boy as he struggled to stay alive. Over time, however, Vance watched the young man harden and develop woods skills. He also witnessed increasingly spooky, violent behavior from Oros. For instance, once, when Oros showed up asking for dinner, he took offense when Vance asked him to wash his hands. All of sudden, Vance got the feeling that Oros was considering murdering him. Another time he threatened to kill Vance’s wife over a petty dispute over Oros’ dogs.

Years later, after Vance learned that Oros had gone on to commit horrible crimes and murders across the region, Vance said he felt guilty for having helped him.

Vance could not have known at the time that he was helping a man who would become known as Sheslay Free Mike—one of the most infamous and mysterious criminals to ever roam the North Country.

At first Oros’ home base was near the headwaters of the Sheslay River, which is a tributary of the massive Taku River watershed that originates in British Columbia and drains into Southeast Alaska. It’s likely that the isolation of living at Sheslay contributed to Oros becoming increasingly feral, paranoid, and delusional. He took to carving trees and buildings with his personal mark, a blazing sun symbol, which signified that he owned the country and everything in it. He roamed deeper into the wilderness, living in a tent and in abandoned structures, illegally hunting and trapping, and occasionally raiding a cabin.

Stories of Oros’ menacing nature and his cabin raids began to circulate, as did tales of his almost superhuman ability to travel through the woods. He could supposedly snowshoe while hauling a heavy sled at a steady six miles per hour, covering 60 miles a day. He moved like a ghost, most of the time unseen. At other times he would suddenly appear, as if he were conjured.

Sitka Tlingit cultural bearer Dave Kanosh said that some families moved to Southeast Alaska to get away from Oros.

Canadian police officer Chris Morgan was stationed in Teslin for several years and had encounters with Oros. In a 1985 interview for the Vancouver Sun Newspaper, Morgan called him, “the missing link…the closest thing a man can be to being an animal and the closest thing an animal can be to being a man.”

Vernon Frolick, a Canadian writer and prosecutor, had full access to Oros’ diaries. He published the one book about Oros, entitled “Descent into Madness: Diary of a Killer.” The book describes Oros when he first comes north as a hardcore back to the earther – part of a movement to reconnect with the land that began in the 1950s in response to industrialization and capitalism and, arguably, reached its peak during the early 1970s.

Sheslay was the place that marked the beginning of his 13-year war with “torture druggers” and “sneak arounds.” It wasn’t long before he became known as “Sheslay Free Mike” or just “Sheslay” and, before long, became the bane of the country.

In his journals he constantly referenced “torture druggers,” who experimented on and poisoned him, as well as “sneak arounds,” whom he never seemed to catch sight of but who he believed were stalking him. Armed with a .303 rifle, he’d spend a significant portion of many days hunting “sneak arounds.”

Oros also imagined that every time a plane flew overhead it sprayed him and the earth with poisonous chemicals. His hatred of authority figures had deepened to murderous rage, and he constantly wrote in his journals about wanting kill any government officials he might encounter.

Phil Timpany, a Canadian woodsman, …actually saw Oros. It happened sometime after the fall of 1979, while Oros was being held in custody in Atlin. A cop wanted him to come in and see Oros. Timpany was out in the same country as the madman, and the cop was worried for his safety. The officer told Timpany they suspected Oros of a number of disappearances and murders.

I asked what do I do if I meet him in the woods? He said don’t ever say goodbye. Basically, just shoot him. The cop was trying to be honest with me,” Timpany said.

Oros directed the lion’s share of his hatred toward police officers. He wrote in his last diary that focusing his hatred allowed him to “set back and enjoy myself, doing a few things I wanted to do before I died.”

One of those “things” may have been the rape and murder of Cindy Elrod, whose body was found on August 23, 1983, in Juneau.

Oros slept on Big Island in Teslin Lake, the burial place of a Tlingit shaman. There had long been a belief circulating around Oros, especially with Tlingit people, that he was not human. They believed he was the physical manifestation of the Kóoshdaa Káa, an evil spirit that preys upon and possesses the lost, turning them into a reflection of itself. The Kóoshdaa Káa is a shapeshifting monster associated with madness, disappearances, and wildness. The Kóoshdaa Káa can be linked to the wild man of the woodsarchetype in that it lures its victims into the “wilderness,” turns them insane, and causes them to lose their humanity.

[RCMP SWAT] flew into Teslin Lake. Officers Rodgers and Buday, armed with M-16s, along with a sharpshooter, made up one of the units. Their unit was dropped in front of Oros, while another was dropped behind him. While Rodgers and Buday were hiding in deep snow, hoping to intercept Oros as he snowshoed toward them, the mad trapper disappeared in the brush. Unseen, he circled around and snuck up on Rodgers and Buday. Oros fatally shot Buday through the back of the neck with his .303 rifle and then turned to Rodgers. Forty-four yards separated the two men.

Rodgers says that he believes he and Buday had some higher power with them that day. The moment after Buday was shot, Rodgers had an out-of-body experience, like he was watching the events happen from above. He says he looked down on Oros as the man worked his rifle’s bolt, took aim, and pulled the trigger. Then Rodgers watched himself raise his M-16 and shoot. His bullet went through Oros’ forehead, killing him instantly.

Examination of Oros’ rifle afterward showed that the firing pin had worked and dented the primer but hadn’t ignited the powder. Rodgers should have been killed.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/sheslay-free-mike-story/

maximus otter
 
Serial killer preying on Muslims.

Albuquerque Police Chief Harold Medina is once again urging the city’s Muslim community to be on guard after another Muslim man was found dead Saturday ― the fourth to be killed in the New Mexico city in similar circumstances since November 2021.

Police say they have reason to believe the murders were committed by the same person or persons. The most recent killing came just two days after the Albuquerque Police Department held a press conference with the FBI to announce the possible connection.

While authorities have declined to reveal any specific evidence, they point to the fact that all of the victims shared a common race and religion.
“Our city has suffered another tragic loss overnight. Another young man who was part of the Muslim community was murdered. As with the previous three murders we mentioned on Thursday, there’s reason to believe this death is related to those shootings,” Medina said at a news conference Saturday afternoon.

“We need to ask the Muslim community especially to be vigilant. Watch out for one another. If you see something, say something,” he said.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/albu...-community-murders_n_62eed8a3e4b09d09a2c46755
 
Serial killer preying on Muslims.

Albuquerque Police Chief Harold Medina is once again urging the city’s Muslim community to be on guard after another Muslim man was found dead Saturday ― the fourth to be killed in the New Mexico city in similar circumstances since November 2021.

Police say they have reason to believe the murders were committed by the same person or persons. The most recent killing came just two days after the Albuquerque Police Department held a press conference with the FBI to announce the possible connection.

While authorities have declined to reveal any specific evidence, they point to the fact that all of the victims shared a common race and religion.
“Our city has suffered another tragic loss overnight. Another young man who was part of the Muslim community was murdered. As with the previous three murders we mentioned on Thursday, there’s reason to believe this death is related to those shootings,” Medina said at a news conference Saturday afternoon.

“We need to ask the Muslim community especially to be vigilant. Watch out for one another. If you see something, say something,” he said.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/albu...-community-murders_n_62eed8a3e4b09d09a2c46755

Oops:

"Police said Tuesday that they were investigating whether a string of murders that have shaken Albuquerque was motivated by a Sunni Muslim father’s anger over his daughter marrying a Shiite Muslim.

Muhammad Syed, 51, has been charged with the murders of two Muslim men in New Mexico’s largest city, and faces possible charges for the murders of two other Muslim men killed in the last nine months.

Authorities said in a press release that “the offender knew the victims to some extent, and an interpersonal conflict may have led to the shootings.” "

https://www.thedailybeast.com/albuq...n-murders-of-four-muslim-men?via=twitter_page

maximus otter
 
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Oops:

"Police said Tuesday that they were investigating whether a string of murders that have shaken Albuquerque was motivated by a Sunni Muslim father’s anger over his daughter marrying a Shiite Muslim.

Muhammad Syed, 51, has been charged with the murders of two Muslim men in New Mexico’s largest city, and faces possible charges for the murders of two other Muslim men killed in the last nine months.

Authorities said in a press release that “the offender knew the victims to some extent, and an interpersonal conflict may have led to the shootings.” "

https://www.thedailybeast.com/albuq...n-murders-of-four-muslim-men?via=twitter_page

maximus otter
Yes, 'Honour killings' happen a lot in certain parts of the world. Sometimes just for speaking to the 'wrong' person.
 
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