SETI To Make Contact Within 25 Years

feinman

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Why would they if they don't need to do it? I'd get into this more because you've suggested I'm an idiot, but I've been told off by Yith and so I won't go into it further.

The whole point of considering alien species is not to attribute human characteristics to them. Like um ants for example? Do ants have twitter and Instagram - who knows?
I just don't think our species would be that hard to figure out, but it's certainly fine if others do. It's not a matter of having a first-person existential experience of "antness", just need to know how they operate and think. Something advanced enough to create UFOs, wouldn't take 200 years to understand humans; they'd be experimenting on us and have the !evel of control and abilities Eburacum suggested in a previous post.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Just think about everything you do when you wake up, all the stuff you do.

Cats and dogs- look at what they do?

You've got Spiders in the corners of a place you own - what are they doing?

Look at bedbugs - what are they doing?

It's not that simple just assuming that a magical species are turning up and saying we need to talk to the humans.
 

feinman

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Also - can we just drop this idea that we are just an idiotic species? We have nothing to compare ourselves with. We have left our planet's orbit. We could pretty much go to another planet if we had the desire. We built the Pyramids with a couple of rocks and a wooden ramp - this is impressive stuff.

If an alien race had the capacity to travel across the void physically they'd announce it. All this prime-directive stuff is a load of rubbish. "Yeah we didn't interfere and they destroyed themselves taking down millions of other species as well."

It's this belief that we are the only thing that an alien species would be interested in that really pisses me off.
I don't think they are interested in just us. Some devices come out of the oceans, there seems to be an interest in the geography and composition of the earth. There is no Prime Directive, as they've been interacting for a long time. I think we are seen as a destructive force in an oasis of wonderful life, and an eye must be kept on us lest we blow it all up. Or maybe they are just interested in us at this momentous point in our history.
 

plutronus

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And I can only repeat what I have said before- a humanoid alien would not share any of our evolutionary past, so would have significantly different body plan to a human. It would not be a vertebrate sensu strictu, for example, so would need to have evolved an erect skeletal structure from an entirely different starting point. The taxon 'vertebrate' is not found anywhere except on Earth, and if there are any creatures with backbones out there in the universe they will have as many differences as similarities to vertebrates on Earth.
eburacum,

I agree that exo-biologists generally believe that ("should there actually be") other aliens (if there are, we also then are aliens), would most probably exhibit a large diversity of form. Drs. Jim Funaro and Ira Reed(sp?) of Cabrillo.edu, an anthropology school, for several years hosted a few of the annual the NASA "Culture Of The Imagination" COTI 'Contact' conference[1][2].
These conferences are attended by thousands of scientists world wide, who are interested in the many disciplines of the alien subject. Jim Funaro's entire schema 'schtick' is alien diversity. Any exo-biologist of any import attends. UFOologists are not welcome, anymore than morticians are at an cryo-extended-life expo! I was invited due to my search model I was promoting in those days and while it doesn't mean very much, my website was the first of only a very few to be linked on the NIDS website. I was invited by the NIDS research director and I was introduced to Bob Bigelow, he was hob-knobbing with John Peterson of the 'Peterson Institute', a consultant to the Office of the President, during Clinton's administration. In my hotel room at the venue, I was demonstrating my ETp, Luminous-Orb interaction experiment platform[3] to a group of NASA scientist & NIDS people. John Peterson, in disgust, threw up his hands and left my hotel room, when I explained that luminous-orbs (BOLs, NLP, Ignacious-Corpus, Corpse-Candles, Marfa-Lights, Spook Lanterns, etc, to cite a few of the 1200 or so names assigned to the objects) are often seen in cemetaries hovering around the plots of recently buried Jewish people. The others hung around. Orthodox Jewish via religious doctrine are mandated to be buried, intact, within 24 hours of their transition. These type 'orbs', appx the size of a large cantaloupe, and which are seeable with the unaided eye, have historically been associated with cemetaries. They might not be ET, but what exactly is the definition of ET? EBE not normally around here? However that may be, these objects have been reported in numerous disparate circumstances, locations, and scenarios, such as scenes of intense violence, the so-called "foo-fighters" of the WW-II European Aerial Combat Theatre, invasion beaches of Normandy. I was given daylight UPI photos that were taken clandestinely during a mass execution of Cambodians by Communist Chinese Military during the 1960~1970 US Vietnam War. They are often sighted exiting out the bottoms of discs. These luminous-orb objects among other characteristics, change colors apparently dependant upon different circumstances. It is my opinion that I have the mapped the colors. However, there are behaviors exhibited that I and other LO investigators do not understand. These objects are clearly intelligent, exhibit awareness of Human thinking and frequently alter their physical behavior persuant to intent, such as 'disappearing' the instant before a photo is snapped. They don't have appendages or eyes or ears, etc. They do not think like us, but they are telepathic or perhaps their version of mecha are? In any case there are many instances which illustrate that these objects respond to Human unspoken intentions and frequently do so at considerable distance, however, that behavior is not just unique to luminous-orbs. If they employ EMF strategies, it is very good, as I have expended considerable effort to shield any tempest that might be radiated in my instrumentation apparati and it did no good. I used my calibrated HP-8568B[3] for the studies, and anything else I could apply or conjure.

Dr. Reed & Funaro weave the course via environmental influences, in that they believe, and rightfully so, I suspect, that the environment is a major element in the physical evolution of a specis. Once a year, they challenge the local area high-schools with some contest and the two school winner teams, then using software programs that Cabrillo.edu developed, the team members select environment constraints which then are used to semi-auto-generate a physical formed EBE as derived in part from the world environment that they designed. The high-school team members then learn the traits of those EBEs, their forms and sensory advantages and disadvantages (inherently via comparison with Humanoids), putting on costumes to play the part of the EBEs that they co-created. On the last day of the conference the two teams are allowed first contact with each other, on stage, playing the roles of the EBEs working through difficulties of their physical inequalities and constraints of the physical forms. It is a fascinating expose. For myself it is the most interesting demonstration of the conference. Everyone is there including SETI, SETA, SETV.

Its a fun conference.

plutronus

1) COTI - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_Conference
2) Contact Conference: http://www.contact-conference.com
3) ETp - Luminous-Orb Contact Experiment - ETp_2652c.jpg
4) HP-8568B Spectrum Analyzer - 20180213_000121_1008x756.jpg
 
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eburacum

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Something advanced enough to create UFOs, wouldn't take 200 years to understand humans; they'd be experimenting on us and have the !evel of control and abilities Eburacum suggested in a previous post.
If there is an advanced alien civilisation that has been monitoring us with hypertechnology for upwards of 72 years, maybe we should submit a class action against them when they finally bother to make contact. All the billions of people that have died in agony from diseases that they could have treated, or from poverty that they could have alleviated, even from old age that they could have ameliorated, have died while those callous bastards have been joyriding around in the skies.

Something tells me that if they are out there, just watching and sitting on their hands, they have a serious attitude problem.
 

feinman

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I think this is contact, as much as we can handle. We couldn't deal with a regular visible alien presence; we can barely deal with different races here on earth. Actually, one of the reasons Elizondo left the UFO program is because religious folks in the government were keen on seeing them as demonic manifestations... Imagine what whackadoodles would do.. This form of contact, where the superpowers and militaries know they exist and a program of contact with civilians across the world has led to much of the population believing in them, and many people having seen them, is the best strategy for contact. Take a look at the sightings map and superimpose the years, and there are is a lot of interaction, even if you throw half or two thirds of them out. The real plan for contact is not to show up Independence Day style, but rather to insinuate yourself gradually into the reality of another civilization, so as not to cause a tipping point. That eay, when activity or intervention happens the level of contact will gradually ramp up.
 

eburacum

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I see three possibilities, in a descending order of likelihood.
1/ There are no aliens, and all of the honest sightings are caused by mistakes (the psychosocial hypothesis).
2/ There are aliens, but they are too weird for us to interact with. In this case they will never make contact. and every single witness alive today will die without ever knowing the truth. We are probably better off not making contact with these weirdos.
3/ There aliens, and for some reason they have waited an entire lifetime (possibly much more) before making contact, thus condemning an entire generation of witnesses to uncertainty and ridicule. But they will make contact soon.
I think the last option is the least likely, and also the most inconsiderate. Very large numbers of people have been driven to obession, distraction and sometimes insanity and suicide by the failure to make contact. Basically, the aliens can fuck right off, if that is their strategy.
 

Mythopoeika

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If there is an advanced alien civilisation that has been monitoring us with hypertechnology for upwards of 72 years, maybe we should submit a class action against them when they finally bother to make contact. All the billions of people that have died in agony from diseases that they could have treated, or from poverty that they could have alleviated, even from old age that they could have ameliorated, have died while those callous bastards have been joyriding around in the skies.

Something tells me that if they are out there, just watching and sitting on their hands, they have a serious attitude problem.
Wouldn't that be completely arrogant and presumptuous of us to expect them to help us?
Perhaps they are watching us to see how we deal with it ourselves?
 

feinman

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If so, why are they showing themselves to us? Just to taunt us?
One would think intervention if things get out of control would happen, based on the level of contact and past interactions; i.e. there is no "Prime Directive" being followed.
 

feinman

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3/ There aliens, and for some reason they have waited an entire lifetime (possibly much more) before making contact, thus condemning an entire generation of witnesses to uncertainty and ridicule. But they will make contact soon.
As governments seem keen on covering up UFOs and maintaining secrecy, the program of aliens revealing themselves to the public (UFO sightings, etc.) could be a response to that.
 

eburacum

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I don't agree with the 'government cover-up' hypothesis at all.

1/ Governments are crap at covering things up. Neither the UFO cover-up, or the Moon Hoax, or the 911 conspiracy, could be maintained without whistleblowers for more than a few years.
2/ There are numerous governments around the world, many of which are unsympathetic to each other, so would be happy to discredit one another by disclosing whatever information they have. Remember that the USA is only ~5% of the Earth's surface, and ~5% of the world's population. That means that around 95% of all sightings should occur outside the region directly controlled by the US government.
And don't make me laugh if you think the UK government is covering anything up. The UK government barely exists at the moment.
3/ There are UFO investigation organisations in several countries that are associated with the government. Elizondo and his crew were technically incompetent, and Nick Pope was a joke, but even ones which are fairly competent, like GEPAIN, have found no evidence of a coverup.

The only reason some details about various sightings are not released is because they might disclose secrets about the defence capabilities of their own detection capabilities or secret aircraft. Other details, such as the vast bulk of the data about Roswell, have simply been lost by bureaucracy.

If you are waiting for disclosure, you will have an even longer wait than waiting for contact.
 

feinman

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Well, there is classified information that pertains to national security issues, and individuals can be prosecuted for revealing the information. Apparent!y many individuals have been told to ignore their sightings, or they report them and then are ignored. Often they have been ridiculed, and fear for careers if they discuss it, even while the government studies it. True, the government isn't leak proof,of course information gets out; that's how we hear about it. If Elizondo hadn't come out, we wouldn't know about AATIP.
Shostak:
"The Pentagon has fessed up, and it seems that observers who accused it of hiding information about possible alien visitors were right."

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sh...ying-objects-and-air-force-project-blue-book/

"Since the termination of Project Blue Book, nothing has occurred that would support a resumption of UFO investigations by the Air Force. Given the current environment of steadily decreasing defense budgets, it is unlikely the Air Force would become involved in such a costly project in the foreseeable future."
 

feinman

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The "Estimate of the Situation" (probably very similar to Cometa Report) apparently existed; where is it?
Lift that veil..


"In a 1967 lecture to the Greek Astronomical Society, broadcast on Athens Radio, Santorinis first publicly revealed what had been found in his 1947 investigation. "We soon established that they were not missiles. But, before we could do any more, the Army, after conferring with foreign officials (presumably U.S. Defense Dept.), ordered the investigation stopped. Foreign scientists [from Washington] flew to Greece for secret talks with me". Later Santorinis told UFO researchers such as Raymond Fowler that secrecy was invoked because officials were afraid to admit of a superior technology against which we have "no possibility of defense"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_rockets
 
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feinman

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If craft were able to enter our airspace with impunity on a regular basis and literally fly circles around our aircraft, hassle our navy, and demonstrated a totally different and advanced technology, and was of a very strange nature, we wouldn't try to downplay or deny it to reduce problems, while we studied it? Initially I think this WAS the case, until the late '40s and '50s --when they realized what they were dealing with.
 

plutronus

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feinman,

Pardon me for butting in (I embrace your train of thinking), however, I speculate that the DoD refuses to reveal what information has collectively been acquired, fearing that they will 'leak' the significance of Earthian Military knowledge re; ET presence and their ongoing Human agendae, due to the fact that Earth can not take a fight to their world, and therefore must remain absolutely docile in that context.

plutronus
 

feinman

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That entire letter consists of 'I don't know' and 'I wasn't personally involved', and a bit of hearsay. Devastating stuff.
The information didn't originally come from him, but rather the US government via the Canadian embassy.
 

feinman

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feinman,

Pardon me for butting in (I embrace your train of thinking), however, I speculate that the DoD refuses to reveal what information has collectively been acquired, fearing that they will 'leak' the significance of Earthian Military knowledge re; ET presence and their ongoing Human agendae, due to the fact that Earth can not take a fight to their world, and therefore must remain absolutely docile in that context.

plutronus
I don't think we're a threat; we are lucky if the whole of our civilization doesn't fall into chaos because of our terrible mismanagement of the biosphere. I do agree that the population couldn't handle the strangeness of the truth; and thus the government has continued plausible deniability, stretching it past the breaking point.
 

plutronus

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feinman,

I no longer gift life-power to debate with folks who won't accept that ET are active within Earthian space, as I suspect that only experience may alter their thinking otherwise. Debating with non-knowers really does not cause forward evolution of the knowledge-sphere, if it did I might consider doing so and debating just for the art of it, was ok in school, but I'm an adult now while life is raging around us.

Exactly where we 'fit' within the mutual threat-envelope is unknowable from the public vantage, in my opinion. However, problem as I understand things is that we **ARE** developing counter-measures and while the public remains in the dark, generally speaking, there has been a long history of organized data collection which is being collated by the militaries of the world. It is easy to speculate that there is something very dire that the US Military knows re; alien activities, as every time some country begins to publically disclose their collected ET behavior information to their public, the US Military 'visits' them and they **TOO** go quiet. It has been suggested in the past that those countries were paid-off, but I suspect that they were shown information that scared the crap out of them. I was in direct contact with investigative elements of the Brazilian Military "ET Studies Directorate" via my SETV group in 1998 when they were visited and they went quiet. Should've heard what they were disclosing. Its an eye-opener and they clammed right up. One of my DARPA jobs, which I can't say too much about, was, in my opinion, then and now, a planetary defense weapon and that was in 1984. So Earthian Military is in fact developing countermeasures, but until we can take the fight to them, we gotta walk softly around them, never making too much eye-contact, and we shall not reveal just how much we know, else they could, again, shake the milk, breakup the culture....

plutronus
ps...as an after-thought, let me put it this way, I suspect that ET doesn't give-a-hoot what we do as long as we do not interfere with production...
 
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INT21

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Plutronus,

..I no longer gift life-power to debate with folks who won't accept that ET are active within Earthian space, ..

So you will not discuss with people who do not agree with your belief ?

INT21.
 

feinman

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I don't know if Plutronus has had his own experiences with these devices, but I understand his sentiment. At this point the whole UFO debate is farcical; I've talked with so many folks who were in the military in the '40s and '50s or have been in more recently, and they just laugh and shake their heads. Especially, if you have experienced them in an unambiguous manner and are familiar with the pattern of contact evident in old reports, skeptics can be particularly annoying, but if interaction is chosen, compassion and patience is necessary, and no one has limitless amounts of that (much of my store of that, for example is exhausted on my chorgi). All one has to do is watch Frank Manor or countless other witnesses from waves in the past, and now including folks like Mr. Fravor, etc., and one sees the profound consternation that developed in them over time, as they tried to communicate their experiences to others..
 
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