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SETI (Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence): Compendium / Miscellaneous

I don't understand why SETI continuously wastes good money looking for radio signals. Given the huge advance in technology seen in just the last 100 years alone shows just how quickly technology (particularly communication technology) changes.

Communication via quantum entangled particles (instantaneous and almost 100% secure from eaves dropping) is likely to become a real possibility within the next 10 to 20 years, and if technologically superior species have been around for much longer than we have, it is likely they have come up with ways to communicate that we have not even conceived.

The idea that a technologically advanced civilization would use something as primitive as radio as a method of communication is absurd.
 
AnacondaEq said:
I don't understand why SETI continuously wastes good money looking for radio signals. Given the huge advance in technology seen in just the last 100 years alone shows just how quickly technology (particularly communication technology) changes.

Communication via quantum entangled particles (instantaneous and almost 100% secure from eaves dropping) is likely to become a real possibility within the next 10 to 20 years, and if technologically superior species have been around for much longer than we have, it is likely they have come up with ways to communicate that we have not even conceived.

The idea that a technologically advanced civilization would use something as primitive as radio as a method of communication is absurd.

Yep.
This is my thinking also.
 
AnacondaEq said:
The idea that a technologically advanced civilization would use something as primitive as radio as a method of communication is absurd.
As several of us have been saying for years - probably on this very thread! :D
 
How was that link any different?
 
rynner2 said:
AnacondaEq said:
The idea that a technologically advanced civilization would use something as primitive as radio as a method of communication is absurd.
As several of us have been saying for years - probably on this very thread! :D

My apologies, my very same point has already been addressed as you have said :)
 
Faster computers will find aliens in 20 years, says SETI
Advances in computer technology are speeding up the rate at which we can scour the universe for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence, says a SETI astronomer
By Matthew Sparkes
10:36AM GMT 13 Mar 2014

If intelligent alien life exists we will find it within two decades, thanks to advances in computer power speeding up our search of star systems, says the SETI Institute's senior astronomer Seth Shostak.

SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) was founded in 1984 to explore the universe and find life on other planets. It runs a series of programs using radio and optical telescopes to search for signals from aliens. The work is reliant on computers to extract any artificial signals from the "noise" of the universe.

Although the first SETI experiment was conducted around 50 years ago and there have been no signals detected that prove the existence of alien intelligence, Shostak said he was confident that if there is life out there we will find it within two decades.

Previous searches have covered a few thousand star systems "at most" and it is likely that we would need to scour "a few million" before we were successful, he said in an interview with Popular Mechanics. But advances in computer technology have sped up the search and will continue to do so.

"The thing to keep in mind is that we're still in the very early days when it comes to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Saying there's a silence is a bit like if Columbus, looking to discover a new continent, only sailed ten miles off the coast of Spain before turning back to say, 'Nothing out there! I guess that whole exploration gig isn't going to work out.'," he said.

"My guess that we'll succeed in the next two decades is based on the fact that with improvements in digital electronics and computers - which are getting better and cheaper, following Moore's law - we will be continually sifting through the sky faster. And you can extrapolate how fast we'll be able to search, assuming we have the money, in the next decade or two."

Even if we do find an alien intelligence it is unlikely that they would be any closer than a couple of hundred light years, which would make communication extremely difficult. At that distance it would take 400 years to send a message and receive a single reply.

The SETI Institute is part of the wider group known as SETI which also includes projects run by Harvard University and the University of Calfornia, Berkeley. One of SETI's most famous experiments is SETI@Home which allows members of the public can take part in by donating their own computers when they are not in use.

Anyone wishing to take part can download free software which crunches data and searches for alien signals in the background, helping to form part of a large, distributed supercomputer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... -SETI.html
 
J_Frank_Parnell said:
This is from sky news (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3 ... 19,00.html). Tried uploading it to the breaking news jobbie yesterday but it never appeared.
anyway, here's the story:

Talking To The Alien
Updated: 12:50, Thursday March 30, 2006

Aliens will be talking to us within the next 20 years, according to space boffins.

Dr Seth Shostak of the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence group said they may have even already landed.

"We'll know we are not alone between the years 2020 and 2025," he told The Sun.

"This will be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, story of all time."

His group, which is linked to the University of California, is building 350 telescopes to listen for aliens.

Dr Shostak believes ETs could already be listening to Earth.

And he thinks alien life may have landed in clumps of bacteria cells.

so wot u reckon?

I reckon it is a bold statement to make when we don't even know if there is anything out there to make contact with...

EDIT: Oh, I see that was posted 8 years ago... So we should expect contact within the just over a decade then... Great! :)
 
Uh oh...
Scientist: 'Try to contact aliens'
_77533744_pallab_ghosh_112x63.jpg
By Pallab Ghosh Science correspondent, BBC News

_80966442_r1600351-allen_telescope_array-spl.jpg

Seti listens out for signals using its own radio telescope array at Hat Creek in California

Scientists at a US science conference have said it is now time to actively try to contact intelligent life on other worlds.
Researchers involved in the search for extra-terrestrial life are considering what the message from Earth should be.
The call has been made by at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in San Jose.
But others argued that making our presence known might be dangerous.

Researchers at Seti have been listening for signals from outer space for more than 30 years using radio telescope facilities in the US. So far there has been no sign of ET.
The organisation's director, Dr Seth Shostak told scientists at the AAAS meeting that it is now time to step up the search.
"Some of us at the institute are interested in 'active Seti', not just listening but broadcast something maybe to some nearby stars because maybe there is some chance that if you wake somebody up you'll get a response," he told BBC News.

etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31442952
 
Interesting discussion on BBC Radio 5 Live last night between two scientists. One argued that, with the discovery of increasing numbers of "Earth-like" planets, we should significantly increase the SETI effort to target such potentially life-bearing planets with radio greetings. The other scientist urged caution and quoted examples from humankind's own history where more advanced cultures met more primitive ones, the outcome generally being catastrophic for the latter.

What do you reckon? Given the troubled state of this little planet, the evidence seems to be that humanity isn't a particularly wise or benign species, so is it dangerous to assume any alien civilisations out there would be more enlightened than us?
 
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Why we should bowl the little green men a googly
If we want to discover intelligent life in space, we should beam out The Laws of Cricket
By Harry de Quetteville
6:15AM GMT 13 Feb 2015

...

“Honestly,” says Dr Shostak, “what do they [aliens] want to hear from us? The structure of the hydrogen atom? No.” According to him, we should beam up “pictures, diagrams showing a pitch, footage. They’ll cross-correlate all this and put it together and if they are clever at all, they will figure out something about cricket.”

This, it turns out, is how we will know if we have finally met another intelligence equal to our own. We will know when we meet our match not, as Hollywood would have it, when Manhattan is shrouded in the shadow of some vast flying saucer, but when a package is unwrapped by the Test Match Special team containing a cake baked 16 light years away. It may be a little stale, and Lord alone knows what it will smell like, but it will surely be a foretaste of interstellar Test matches to come. And if our distant descendants are lucky enough to have them described by the equal of Arlott, whether human or alien, they will know civilisation indeed. :D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/11408986/Why-we-should-bowl-the-little-green-men-a-googly.html
 
Interesting discussion on BBC Radio 5 Live last night between two scientists. One argued that, with the discovery of increasing numbers of "Earth-like" planets, we should significantly increase the SETI effort to target such potentially life-bearing planets with radio greetings. The other scientist urged caution and quoted examples from humankind's own history where more advanced cultures met more primitive ones, the outcome generally being catastrophic for the latter.

What do you reckon? Given the troubled state of this little planet, the evidence seems to be that humanity isn't a particularly wise or benign species, so is it dangerous to assume any alien civilisations out there would be more enlightened than us?
Recent posts on the SETI thread start here:

http://forum.forteantimes.com/index...act-within-25-years.26029/page-9#post-1403158
 
It seems to me, the rate at which extrasolar planets (or exoplanets, but not exosolar planets, sorry Jenny Randles ;)) are being detected and analysed has rendered the SETI approach useless for now. We will soon have targets that offer far more promising possibilities than can be offered by the relatively random approach previously taken by SETI. A developed planet may already have been detected, the data waiting to be analysed. Once that discovery is made, then we can direct a signal to that location if we feel it's the correct thing to do.

As for this interminably raised question of whether we should contact life elsewhere, I think the answer is we may just as well. The idea that we can look at examples from human history to judge what might happen when two planetary civilisations collide seems flawed to me.

Firstly, Europeans didn't destroy native populations on distant continents because those natives sent Europe a message in a bottle. Europeans where ready to explore further, and discovered those lands. If an alien civilisation is ready to spread its influence throughout the galaxy, we will be found, and we will have to deal with that one way or another. If we discover there is a civilisation a hundred and fifty light years away that has a heavily industrialised economy, detectable through its atmosphere, its now a hundred and fifty years further on. We can be fairly sure it has either decimated itself through carelessness by now, or in the intervening hundred and fifty years has become more advanced than us, and long since detected our presence.

Secondly, the idea that such a civilisation would want anything more than casual conversation and information exchange seems based on a Star Trek idea of the Galaxy, where humans with prosthetic make-up on swan about chatting in English, swapping minerals and food and artefacts between each other. As far as we know, superluminal travel is impossible, or in practice uneconomical, so alien beings would need a good reason to want to come here. Contrary to Independence Day, I don't see that we have resources on this planet that compare remotely with those obtainable in space by space-faring beings. Energy is abundant in the universe, as is water and mineral wealth, and given our own progress, any such civilisation would long since have begun constituting their own purpose made metamaterials. Our food, and even our air, would be poisonous or at the very least unpleasant to them, in all likelihood, and any attempt to change those things would upset the planet so much as to render its study pointless. We had good economical reasons for exploring the frontiers of our world. We have few good reasons for travelling to the frontiers of the Milky Way, besides curiosity.

Of course, it's possible that superluminal travel is both possible and easy once you know how, and a galactic civilisation exists, technologically thousands of years ahead of us, and it's only a matter of time before they find us. If that's the case, we can't do a darn thing to stop such godlike beings doing as they will with us. But if such a network of beings exist throughout the Galaxy, I think we would have detected them by now.
 
Any civilisation that could travel to our planet and anywhere else, wouldn't actually need us for anything.
They wouldn't need us to be slaves (they've got robots for that).
They wouldn't need the piffling resources of this planet (they can mine any other uninhabited planet they please).
They wouldn't need to trade with us.
Just about all they might want with us is to use us as unwitting pawns in some giant political game, or as scientific curiosities to be peered at (much as we look at animals in a wildlife reserve).
 
"I wonder how far transmissions of 'Love Thy Neighbour' have reached into the cosmos."

Just like all TV transmissions, after around 1 light year the signal will have degraded to the extent that it would be indistinguishable from the universe's background noise.
 
Sorry - had inadvertently started a new thread on this.

There was an interesting debate on BBC Radio 5 Live last night between two scientists. One argued that, with the discovery of increasing numbers of Earth-like planets, we should significantly increase the SETI effort to target such potentially life-bearing planets with radio greetings. The other scientist urged caution and quoted examples from humankind's own history where more advanced cultures met more primitive ones, the outcome generally being catastrophic for the latter.

Given humankind's less than benign record down here on this troubled little planet, is there any reason to believe that other civilisations capable of electronic communication and space travel would be any less the sociapaths than us?
 
More;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31442952
His argument isn't entirely reassuring. But neither is the one made by David Brin, a science fiction writer invited to speak at the AAAS meeting, who opposes the plan.

"Historians will tell you that first contact between industrial civilisations and indigenous people does not go well," he told me.

Mr Brin believes that those in favour of active Seti have been "railroading the public into sending a message without a wide and detailed discussion of what the cultural impact might be".

He does not fear a Hollywood-style alien invasion and thinks the likelihood of making contact is extremely low. But the risks, he argues, are extremely high and so merit careful consideration before anyone sends out a signal to potentially habitable worlds.

"The arrogance of shouting into the cosmos without any proper risk assessment defies belief. It is a course that would put our grandchildren at risk," he said.
Brin has written academic papers on the Fermi Paradox, and is about as qualified as anyone else to speak on this subject (which, realistically, means not at all).
 
"I wonder how far transmissions of 'Love Thy Neighbour' have reached into the cosmos."

Just like all TV transmissions, after around 1 light year the signal will have degraded to the extent that it would be indistinguishable from the universe's background noise.
Depending on how big your detector is. A fantastically vast receiver could just about detect these from 4 light years out, that is, from the nearest star; we shouldn't assume that the aliens are limited to detectors with similar resolution to ours.
 
If there are hostile non-terrestrial lifeforms out there and they have FTL travel - it doesn't matter if we make an effort to contact them or not, we're flocked. Technologically they would be so far ahead of us that we would be detected long before any contact signals of ours arrived at planets they inhabit. Hostile they wouldn't contact us, they wouldn't even use nukes or land; 5 or 6 0.95c high mass objects would sterilize our planet.

Beneficent species would probably be aware if the "cargo cult" problem and would not even try to contact us.

Personally I think both of these scenarios are moot, any species which can expend the energy to cross interstellar space either by FTL or STL methods will not be in the least interested in planets; there is no need to dive into a gravity hole when there is plenty of material to graze in Oort clouds and Kuiper belts to reproduce the habitat ships you live on.
 
Sometimes people who insist on looking outwards are facing a psychological difficulty looking inwards. We place far too much trust in the impartiality of scientists. A lot of people become interested in psychology and undertake studies in it as a form of self-diagnosis. So, should we trust the mindset of those who wish to communicate with extra-terrestrial life forms if they cannot say, relate to their wife, son or daughter, having committed themselves to such an extreme goal.

If there was cast-iron, Teflon, nay diamond proof there's a guarantee that a higher intelligence guarantees an educated benign wisdom coupled with altruism, I'd say go. But experience here indicates that we humans have a system similar to bees where there are delegated drones, workers and queens and we haven't really taken great pains to understand that system.
As above, so below. If we fail to connect with the various life forms on earth and treat them with contempt as a lower species, we cannot consider ourselves educated enough to deal with an alien being.
 
I agree with most of the late comments. There is no ressource on Earth, mineral or biological, that extraterrestrials would need. And any species advanced enough to come here quickly would in all likeliness have means of detection so advanced that they would have detected us already. If they come here, it could be only for some futile motive.

Scientists are not neutral, despite their denials, they are often led by concepts from science-fiction. In a Star Trek fashion, too often. The proponents of contact have often not only a generous view of humankind, but they don't understand that the implications of a wide-scale contact with a superior species cannot be mastered. In fact, the relations between intelligences of different levels can work only as domestication of the less advanced. Even if they are 'benevolent', visitors who would be more intelligent than us would be destructive of our species, whether they want or not. No, we're not educated enough, and we probably can't be.
 
There's a lot of apes caged in zoos. What does that say about the human approach to communications with OUR own nearest less intelligent genetic cousins?
 
Apes are not people, they are animals, and Im sure an ET would know the difference.

What have we got to interest them? Ourselves, our culture, our creations and our experience.

Im sure an ET would find a lot to put in his British museum. (Whether we would agree with his choice would be another matter.)
 
What have we got to interest them? Ourselves, our culture, our creations and our experience.

Im sure an ET would find a lot to put in his British museum. (Whether we would agree with his choice would be another matter.)
This might be our best hope. If the aliens are at all curious, they might like to read out books, watch our films, listen to our music, interpret our dreams; I'm sure these are the most valuable and unique products of our world.

The problem might come when we fail to come up with the goods (dream harder, puny human worm!)
 
Apes are not people, they are animals
The question is can you identify a difference between apes and people?

Chimps use tools, have societies, have been observed to build temporary structures and appear to have local dialects in which they communicate. Both humans and apes are members of the super family Hominiodea.
 
The question is can you identify a difference between apes and people?

Chimps use tools, have societies, have been observed to build temporary structures and appear to have local dialects in which they communicate. Both humans and apes are members of the super family Hominiodea.
I think we are steadily learning more and more about the intelligence emotional life of animals, and how close it can be to our own. We can't assume any alien beings would recognise or respect such sophistication in us, but to reiterate a point that's been made a few times already, any alien being capable of getting here would already have detected us, and would be superior to us to the point that our feelings about their intentions are moot.
 
Apes are not people, they are animals, and Im sure an ET would know the difference.

What have we got to interest them? Ourselves, our culture, our creations and our experience.

Im sure an ET would find a lot to put in his British museum. (Whether we would agree with his choice would be another matter.)

People are animals too.
Edit...
As part of the fauna of this planet, look how we treat the rest of the animals - milked, farmed, hunted, butchered and kept in cages for our amusement. I'm sure any alien looking at our dealings with other species would give us a wide berth, or if they are altruistic or have a sense of indignation or injustice (as many hope), may want to teach us a lesson here.
 
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People are animals too.
Edit...
As part of the fauna of this planet, look how we treat the rest of the animals - milked, farmed, hunted, butchered and kept in cages for our amusement. I'm sure any alien looking at our dealings with other species would give us a wide berth, or if they are altruistic or have a sense of indignation or injustice (as many hope), may want to teach us a lesson here.
What would give them the moral high ground to judge us? Surely they would have had all this in their past history too.
 
What would give them the moral high ground to judge us? Surely they would have had all this in their past history too.
We couldn't assume they had. It would probably depend on how social a species they are, and the mechanics of their social interactions, just as our own capacity for empathy probably depends on ours. What if they are a society that believes in encouraging evolution through constant individual competition with each other? Such a species would probably develop through technological phases more slowly (but there's been plenty of time in the universe for them still to be ahead of ourselves) but the reverence with which human culture holds human life might seem totally, well, alien to them. It might be unthinkable to them that we would care that they had obliterated New York, if it didn't directly affect us.
 
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