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SETI (Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence): Compendium / Miscellaneous

No, we do know that we can't accelerate past c. To do so would require more than infinite energy.

<sigh> No, we know no such thing. Really, we simply do not have adequate knowledge to make such an absolute statement.

Such claims of ultimate knowledge are, as I said, hubristic. In effect, by making such a statement you are attempting to predict the entirety of future human discovery and knowledge. No sensible person does that. (Hint: Too many humans, including scientists, suffer from extreme hubris).

All that anyone can honestly or scientifically say as things currently stand is that (a) we currently know of no practical way to accelerate past light speed and (b) our current understanding of physics indicates that it is probably impossible in any practical way.

But it would be foolish to erroneously extrapolate from true and valid statements (a) and (b) above to an absolute statement such as "we do know that we can't accelerate past c", which is simply untrue as things stand.

In short, "knowing" is not the same as "as far as we can tell based upon best current theory" and the two things should never be conflated.

If we want to travel faster than c we will need to do it without acceleration.

Sure, see also my footnote in #362.

But the possibility of other ways to create the net displacement within a certain timeframe that faster than light travel would otherwise have provided does not mean that we know things that we most certainly do not know for sure, other than on a current theoretical basis. I do not dismiss the significance or meaning of "theory" in scientific terms; indeed, I am pointing out what theory means in practice.
 
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I just doubt there's much value in travelling somewhere so distant and impractical to reach as, for example, Proxima Centauri, when there's unlikely to be anything there we can't find within the Solar System. Obviously we'll send probes when it's fairly cheap, knowing we'll get no data from them for many years. But, basically, if we develop the tech to travel to other star systems, we'll also likely have the tech to expand and colonise the empty space between our own system's planets, as well as its other planets, and for that matter the more uninhabitable parts of Earth (mountain tops, deserts, the surfaces and perhaps even depths of oceans). I suppose I see a Solar System of the future as being far more vibrant and varied.


Sadly I don't reckon we'll be doing much interstellar exploring. We've done enough damage to the climate for that to occupy us for hundreds of years.
 
eburacum said:
No, we do know that we can't accelerate past c. To do so would require more than infinite energy.
markrkingston1 said:
<sigh> No, we know no such thing. Really, we simply do not have adequate knowledge to make such an absolute statement.
Sorry, but this is simply bollocks. It is literally impossible to accelerate past c; get used to it. If you want to go faster than light you need to use a different paradigm, such as modification of the space-time metric, which does not involve acceleration.
 
Good point that. Turn the sail round and make sure you're pointed at star?
Given the timescales involved, it probably wouldn't seem too much bother to land at the destination planet, mine it for resources then build another beam.
 
And if we do make contact, here's an Alien Whisperer; shades of Arrival. Laurence Doyle has a porpoise in life.

When astrophysicist Laurance Doyle was six, his father presented him with a map of the solar system and said, “The stars are other people’s suns.” The line sparked Doyle’s interest in space, and he’s been studying outer worlds ever since.

In the past, Doyle has worked on discovering exoplanets with NASA’s Kepler mission. Today, he’s leading a project that could be equally groundbreaking: building a framework for understanding alien languages.

Since 1987, Doyle has worked at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute, where he is a principal investigator on an assignment to imagine how another intelligent civilization might communicate. Of course, there are no known alien languages available to study today — if they even exist in the first place — so Doyle is using intelligent animal languages as a guidepost. To do this, Doyle and his colleagues have collected a range of sounds made by dolphins and humpback whales. They currently have 180,000 dolphin whistles that they use to analyze the sea creatures’ syntax, the same way a linguist would for human sounds.

Unlike other intelligent animals, like monkeys, Doyle says, “humpback whales and bottlenose dolphins depend upon signals that are acoustic,” whereas other creatures can also rely on body language cues. “Therefore, we can obtain and classify the different units of their signaling systems and [be] sure that we’re getting all of them, because humpback whales generally don’t gesture or smile.”

https://medium.com/s/space-time/meet-the-alien-whisperer-43a25abfbb5e
 
.. so Doyle is using intelligent animal languages as a guidepost. To do this, Doyle and his colleagues have collected a range of sounds made by dolphins and humpback whales. ..

But this isn't really relevant as whales etc can't communicate outside of their own medium; the sea. And these creature do no have any symbolic form of communication. Or a written language . All things that an intelligent alien on another planet who has constructed a viable inter planetary communication will already have.

INT21.
 
Also there were people doing the same thing back in the 60s.
 
.. so Doyle is using intelligent animal languages as a guidepost. To do this, Doyle and his colleagues have collected a range of sounds made by dolphins and humpback whales. ..

But this isn't really relevant as whales etc can't communicate outside of their own medium; the sea. And these creature do no have any symbolic form of communication. Or a written language . All things that an intelligent alien on another planet who has constructed a viable inter planetary communication will already have.

INT21.

Remember Star Trek IV ...
 
...Remember Star Trek IV . ...

No, I'm not a Star Trek fan
 
...Remember Star Trek IV . ...

No, I'm not a Star Trek fan

bodysnatchers.gif
 
...Remember Star Trek IV . ...

No, I'm not a Star Trek fan

In 2286, an enormous cylindrical probe moves through space, sending out an indecipherable signal and disabling the power of every ship it passes. As it takes up orbit around Earth, its signal disables the global power grid and generates planetary storms, creating catastrophic, sun-blocking cloud cover. Starfleet Command sends out a planetary distress call and warns all space-faring vessels not to approach Earth. ...

Receiving Starfleet's warning, Spock determines that the probe's signal matches the song of extinct humpback whales, and that the object will continue to wreak havoc until its call is answered. The crew uses their ship to travel back in time via a slingshot maneuver around the Sun, planning to return with a whale to answer the alien signal. ...

After saving the whales from poachers and transporting them aboard, the crew returns with Gillian to their own time. On approaching Earth, the Bounty loses power due to the alien probe, and crash-lands into the waters of San Francisco Bay. Once released from near-drowning, the whales respond to the probe's signal, causing the object to reverse its effects on Earth and return to the depths of space. ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_IV:_The_Voyage_Home
 
Sadly I don't reckon we'll be doing much interstellar exploring. We've done enough damage to the climate for that to occupy us for hundreds of years.

Nope, and after all the sensible things Markrkingston1 has said about hubris.

Describe one thing that (we believe) is happening with regard to climate that hasn’t happened before, faster or worse, yet without human intervention.

maximus otter
 
...Describe one thing that (we believe) is happening with regard to climate that hasn’t happened before, faster or worse, yet without human intervention. ..

How about 200 years of human emissions from industrial progress ?

INT21.
 
...Describe one thing that (we believe) is happening with regard to climate that hasn’t happened before, faster or worse, yet without human intervention. ..

How about 200 years of human emissions from industrial progress ?

INT21.

Reread the question.

maximus otter
 
Point taken.

But the difference between now and the past appears to be human intervention. So referring back to volcanoes etc is a misdirection at best.
There doesn't appear to be a 'hockey stick' in the ancient core records.
 
There has never been a time in the past when buried kerogen products (oil, natural gas and coal) have been mined in such quantities.
Or at all.
So we are in uncharted territory with regards to the climate. Note that the rate of volcanic activity is unchanged, so is irrelevant to this discussion.
 
Here's a theory I haven't heard before: the aliens are out there, but essentially "hibernating", waiting for the universe to cool down.

https://slate.com/technology/2017/07/maybe-we-havent-found-alien-life-because-its-sleeping.html

"According to a new research paper accepted for publication in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, extraterrestrials are sleeping while they wait. In the paper, authors from Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute and the Astronomical Observatory of BelgradeAnders Sandberg, Stuart Armstrong, and Milan Cirkovic argue that the universe is too hot right now for advanced, digital civilizations to make the most efficient use of their resources. The solution: Sleep and wait for the universe to cool down, a process known as aestivating (like hibernation but sleeping until it’s colder). "
 
As the Universe has been cooling since the Big Bang, and was thus always hotter than it is now, it begs the question 'where do these aliens come from that was cooler when they were developing ?'.

INT21
 
As the Universe has been cooling since the Big Bang, and was thus always hotter than it is now, it begs the question 'where do these aliens come from that was cooler when they were developing ?'.

INT21
The idea wasn't that it was cooler at some point. It seems to be that the civilization concluded future efficiency via low temperature is desired. So once they can get themselves uploaded into a computer, or are an AI civilization etc. they enter the hibernation state. If they can get to that point in the present "hot" universe then they do so, it's just less efficient.
 
Bloody Aliens dropping their garbage.

If an alien ship left its trash near Earth, here’s what it might look like
By Daniel CleryMar. 15, 2019 , 5:05 PM

Iridium flares are a familiar sight for sky watchers: The brilliant flashes take place when sunlight bounces off the solar panels of the 66 low-orbiting satellites in the iridium communications system. Now, a researcher involved in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence wonders what similar flashes farther out might mean—perhaps a shiny alien artifact or spacecraft?

To find out, he calculated what a shiny “technosignature” might look like. He started with the observation that even though a reflective surface can be seen from a long way off, our ability to see it from Earth depends on the surface area, which way it is oriented, whether it is spinning, and the sensitivity of Earth-bound telescopes. The Panoramic Survey Telescope and Rapid Response System (Pan-STARRS1), a 1.8-meter telescope on Haleakala in Hawaii that scans the sky for potentially threatening near-Earth objects, for example, could spot a mirror the size of a coaster out to 1 astronomical unit, the distance between the sun and Earth, if it was rotating slowly. For Pan-STARRS1 to see a fast-rotating mirror at the same distance, it would need to be the size of a tennis court.


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ly_2019-03-15&et_rid=394299689&et_cid=2717659
 
This is from sky news (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,3 ... 19,00.html). Tried uploading it to the breaking news jobbie yesterday but it never appeared.
anyway, here's the story:

Talking To The Alien
Updated: 12:50, Thursday March 30, 2006

Aliens will be talking to us within the next 20 years, according to space boffins.

Dr Seth Shostak of the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence group said they may have even already landed.

"We'll know we are not alone between the years 2020 and 2025," he told The Sun.

"This will be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, story of all time."

His group, which is linked to the University of California, is building 350 telescopes to listen for aliens.

Dr Shostak believes ETs could already be listening to Earth.

And he thinks alien life may have landed in clumps of bacteria cells.

so wot u reckon?


It will never happen.

The aliens are well aware of us here but choose to ignore.
We search afar when the truth is here.

Mankind think they are the kings of creation that we are created in the image of God and nothing can be higher than God.

So we look for life under rocks or await a squiggly line on SETI to indicate an alien's desperate attempt to contact us?

In truth they have already studied our language, know our science and probably watching me as I type this post and you answering it at the other end. They can pick up a spark from a gas lighter 10 miles away as SETI is just a joke!

The only thing that makes SETI great is that it is respectable. Science knows it is never going to happen as the aliens are already here.

This planet is the lowest planet and a learning school. The true aliens are spiritual and NOT the Greys. They are just the Drones to do physical work.
 
It will never happen.
...They can pick up a spark from a gas lighter 10 miles away as SETI is just a joke!...

We could pick up a spark from a gas lighter 10 miles away....

By way of our capabilities:
"The antennas must capture Voyager information from a signal so weak that the power striking the antenna is only 10 exponent -16 watts (1 part in 10 quadrillion). A modern-day electronic digital watch operates at a power level 20 billion times greater than this feeble level."
https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/did-you-know/
 
From what I have read over the years from various pro and con scientists on the ET issue...the odds are slim that these SETI signals will reach anyone. If intelligent aliens are out there they are few and far between and they would have to be still using that type of science to detect our signal or they would simply miss it. I believe we transmit at a specific range.....so that might be the problem
 
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