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Severed Leg (And Feet) Mysteries

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punychicken

Gone But Not Forgotten
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374
'Mystery feet' found on riverbank. Gwent Police are checking all missing persons records after a pair of feet in training shoes were washed up in the Severn Estuary.
Two fishermen found the body parts, in size eight Diadora trainers, near the Second Severn Crossing at the weekend.

Detectives have since ruled out a connection with a woman, aged 38, whose body was washed up on riverbanks in February.


Gwent Police are calling Richey Edwards' family

Instead, they are contacting families of missing persons, including Manic Street Preachers guitarist Richey Edwards, to trace the owner of the remains.

The rock star, who would now be aged 34, vanished seven years ago before his car was found abandoned at a Severn service station two weeks later.

One of the found feet - caked in mud along with socks and believed to be that of a man - was discovered at Sudbrook near Chepstow on Sunday evening.

Gwent Police later found the second after a search of the area, but a search on Monday morning by the Severn Area Rescue Association did not find additional remains.

Detectives said the blue-and-white trainers were washed up on a recent high tide.


hmmm...! No clue to how they were disassociated from the rest of the legs though, whether they were bitten/chewed pulled or sawn(sawed) off.
 
According to the link you posted, they think the feet rotted off

8¬)
 
Death, unless youre a Goth or a Victorian, is seldom picturesque :)

For a similar tale, look up my meandering prose on the 'How many muderers have you met?' thread

8¬)
 
How long does anyone reckon it would take for a pair of feet to rot off?
Only asking cos if they reckon its Ritchie, well he's been missing for 7 years, and unless he'd hung around where he went missing it could mean he'd been in the water all that time yet the feet have only just been found. Wouldn't the feet be completely gone by now, being in the water all that time? And the trainers too.
Totally gruesome story, regardless.
 
This isn't the first time feet in trainers have been found washed up along the Severn Estuary coastline. About 5-6 years ago a pair was found which eventually were traced to an illegal immigrant who had jumped ship near Cardiff and drowned. His feet were washed up about 4 weeks later, if memory serves correctly, on the opposite side of the river.
 
Bizkit,

It depends on how the body in question is desposed of....

Bear in mind that trainers are tanned leather and/or man-made fibres, both of which stand up well to immersion for prolonged periods, and would retain structural integrity far better than what they contained. So in both scenarios given below the feet would be bourne away:-

If the body was, say weighted by the ankles and dropped in the river, the feet would probably stay attached to the body for 3-6 months, depending on how much the body bloated, how stong the current was, the amount of adepose tissue spread around and the type of ligature connecting the body to the weighting. The probably still quite well preserved body would be bouyant to a degree and therefore dragged further by the current. The Severn is being strongly tidal at that point, so I'd favour into the Irish Sea.

If the body was well buried in river mud, which tends to be quite anaerobic, the body could lay intact for years until a landslide or current erosion (the reverse of the current depostion that perhaps buried the body) exposes all or part of the body. In this case decay is rapid and the body would be rapidly disarticulated by the current in conjunction with decay, the trainers retaining the integrity of the enlclosed feet. I don't know much about the geology of the Severn, but I do know that in the Trent you can get whole bodies suddenly turn up 30-50 years after their deposition!

8¬)
 
Aren't there fish in the Severn? Surely they would nibble the feet?
 
beakboo said:
Aren't there fish in the Severn? Surely they would nibble the feet?
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and the salt in the water (presuming the tidal current carries enough sea water up the river to count), plays havoc with stitching man made or otherwise. Lost many a childhood pair of shoes to the sea that way!
 
Cf Fish

Lot of meat on a man, the Severn really isnt large carnivore central, and the most likely bits to get serious fish damage are eyes, nose, ears, lips and fingers (as the corpse rots the meat softens) body parts in clothing don't usually get huge amounds of fish damage.

CF Shoes... they fell apart becuase you walked in them, not just drifted under water, or they were allowed to dry too quickly. In places like the Titanic Site, the shoes are the only organic reminders of the people. Plenty of salt water, and things that can eat anything, yet the shoes remain.

8¬)
 
Thanks, all. Obviously, I feel for whoever those feet belong to, but I'm kind of hoping they aren't Ritchie's. I would of thought the fishes would have got there first- especially if they had seven years to work on it. And how the heck would they go about identifying someone from a pair of feet? :confused:
 
Shrimps . Back in the 70's we had a neighbour who had seen a body fished out of Watchet harbour ( Somerset coast/Bristol Channel ) and the body was wriggling with millions of shrimps , she would never eat shrimps after that ' feed off the dead , they do '
Bodies turn up centuries after they died , from the shifting sands and mudflats . I remember once a body turned up in the Parrett estuary ( Bristol Channel ) that had had the top of his head surgically removed , never heared anything about that again .
 
I remember once a body turned up in the Parrett estuary ( Bristol Channel ) that had had the top of his head surgically removed , never heared anything about that again .
Click to expand...

Could you give an approximate date?

8¬)
 
Shrimps are well-known 'foul feeders'.
I read a travel guide article about the New England area famed for its shrimps which that year were exceptionally plump and healthy. Visitors enjoyed them immensely, unlike the locals, who, remembering an airliner crashing into the sea with huge loss of life, and having an idea what the shrimps were dining on, discreetly abstained........

Trainers would preserve a pair of feet pretty well, I'd say.
As shoe fashions change, the Diadora company might be able to date the trainers for the police. There might be a photo of Richey wearing them. Someone might have been with him when he bought them. What about DNA evidence?

I am very sorry for Richey's family, who have been dignified about his disappearance and must be suffering terribly even after seven years.
To lose someone, not know whether they are alive or dead, then have to endure a farcical episode like a pair of feet washing up, is not just unlucky but downright cruel.

Let's hope this mystery is solved quickly, whoever's remains they are.
 
bodies wiggling with shrimps! bleeee. its going to take a while to get that horrible image out of my mind. The jewish dietary laws were a health thing rather than a religious thing so that's why they banned shellfish cos they knew they ate icky dirty things.
 
tasha said:
The jewish dietary laws were a health thing rather than a religious thing so that's why they banned shellfish cos they knew they ate icky dirty things.
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Not wanting to get into an argument on the subject, but...

I always assumed that was the case, but it's certainly not universally agreed that Jewish dietary laws are health-based. Some people suggest that it's a way of maintaining a tribal identity, and preventing marriage outside the tribe- when you can't even mix with other tribes for meals, there's not so much chance of outside contact.
 
So whose feet are they then? Anybody heard anything?
 
apparently they're not Richie Edward's. which is a good thing I suppose.
 
harlequin said:
Could you give an approximate date?

8¬)
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It was while I was living in Bridgwater so maybe between about 1978-81 , I can't remember if it was on the news or in the paper .
 
Toenail bid to identify human leg

Police hope a toenail clipping could help identify a man whose leg was washed up on a beach.
Forensic experts have been called in to help detectives over the body part which was discovered in Broughty Ferry, near Dundee in March.

Tests on a toenail proved that the man, who was aged 16-25, had stayed in colder countries such as Denmark and Finland before his death.

A DNA profile from the sample has now been passed to police across Europe.

Tayside Police hope that a match will be found and the mystery man identified.

The leg, with foot still attached, was found on the shore at Beach Crescent on 20 March.

Pathologists said it had probably been in the water for months and traces of denim proved he had been wearing blue jeans.

The man had also been wearing size 9 black Reebok trainers and black Umbro sports socks.

Tests by scientists at Queen's University in Belfast found that the man had stayed in three different regions prior to his death.

The procedure, known as Stable Isotope Profiling, was carried out by Dr Wolfram Meier-Augenstein,

He found that the man probably stayed in the UK or Ireland before travelling to colder climates.

Det Sgt Kevin McMahon said: "The most recent geographic location lived in continuously for 13 months was indicative of a climactic zone and latitude encountered in the southern parts of Scandinavia and the corresponding part of the Baltic region.

"What is even more fascinating is that he was able to tell us that around 16 months prior to the death of the man a change in the profile indicates a short stay in a region with an even colder climate, possibly on the same latitude as Oslo or Helsinki.

"At months 17, 15 and 14 prior to death, the results possibly indicate brief stays at yet another location with the characteristics of a 'halfway house' between the UK, Ireland and Central Europe and the Baltic region, which points towards countries like Denmark."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 052418.stm
 
Impressive though I have trouble imaging a new series for the franchise called "CSI:Broughty Ferry"

I'm not sure how helpful it'd be in identifying him, lots of people drop out of sight, unless he's got close family or friends who've noticed he's gone he may be someone no-one's even reported as missing, particularly if he's travelled a bit as the forensics suggest.
 
it's amazing how much (alleged) detail can be read into such evidence nowadays.

When I was an undergraduate at Michigan State University (circa 1971 or 1972) the physical anthropology lab was tasked to identify a lower shin / foot encased in a high-top military boot that'd washed ashore from Lake Michigan. It was believed to be the remains of one of 4 or 5 crew members of an Air Force plane that'd crashed into the lake in the 1950's (none of whose remains had ever been recovered).

In that case, the determining factors were foot size (as measured from the bones) and some few hairs still preserved down inside the boot ...

If the hairs' color hadn't matched only one of the crew members, they'd never have been able to attribute the remains to only one of the possibilities.
 
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liveinabin1 said:
He might not be dead.He might have just got bored of his leg and thrown it out to sea.
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:laughing: :laughing: :yabba: U nutter!!!!! ;) :likee:
 
There's more of 'em.... :shock:

Three severed feet found on Canadian beaches
By Tom Chivers
Last Updated: 2:40am GMT 05/03/2008

A severed right foot has been found on a beach in western Canada - the third such find in the last six months.

The latest foot, still wearing a trainer, was washed up on Valdes Island, a tiny, isolated community in British Columbia, earlier this month, the Victoria Times Colonist reports.

Local police are calling it one of the most bizarre cases in recent memory, but are unclear whether any foul play is involved.

The previous two feet, both right and wearing size 12 (US) trainers, washed ashore on Gabriola and Jedediah Islands, less than 40 miles from Valdes, in August of last year.

DNA samples have been taken from all three feet, but so far the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) have been unable to match them to anyone in their databases.

"It is unusual," RCMP spokeswoman Const. Annie Linteau told the Times Colonist. "We are in the preliminary stages of this particular investigation, and of course we will not enter into speculation."

While it is not unheard-of for separated body parts to be washed ashore, Jeff Dolen, British Columbia's assistant deputy chief coroner, said this would be "the first instance of three such similar remains being discovered" in such proximity.

Freshly-dead bodies sink in seawater. However, as they decompose they fill with gas, sometimes bringing them back to the surface. Heads, arms and legs often become separated as they decompose, but Gail Anderson, a forensic entomologist from Simon Fraser University, said that those parts rarely float.

"Obviously there's some sort of current picking up light items and washing them to those particular areas," she said.

The Vancouver Island Major Crime Unit has sent detectives to the islands to help investigations. Meanwhile the three feet have been sent to the BC Coroners Service for forensic testing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... eet104.xml
 
Mystery of three right feet washed up on Canadian islands
· No DNA match to anyone on police database
· Theories range from crime to mortuary worker's joke
Helen Pidd The Guardian, Thursday March 6 2008

Canadian police are investigating the mystery of three right feet that have turned up off Vancouver Island in the past six months.

The first was washed up in August on an isolated island in British Columbia. A 12-year-old girl beachcombing with her family found a size 12 running shoe with a human right foot still inside. Six days later a couple hiking around coves on another remote island found another size 12 right foot in a trainer under a tree trunk. Then, last month, another right foot was spotted, this time bobbing about in the water off a third island.

Although the discoveries sound like a film plot, the scenario is flummoxing police in western Canada. They collected DNA from the remains but could not match them to anyone on their database.

Dr Simon Boxall, an oceanographer from the National Oceanography Centre in Southampton, said: "It is not that unusual for body parts to turn up in the sea - they can be the result of a fishing accident, or a whole body getting hit by a passing ship, for example - but the fact that all three were clustered so close together does suggest dodgy dealings."

Forensic anthropologist Brenda Clark, from Camosun College in Victoria, Canada, told the Provence newspaper it was impossible to make accurate estimates of gender, age, stature or ancestry just by looking at a foot.

Looking at a map of where the feet were found - on the islands of Jedediah, Gabriola and Valdes in Georgia Strait - does allow educated guesses as to where they may have come from, said Boxall. "Looking at the oceanography of where the feet were found, the likelihood is that they originated from within the Vancouver area itself," he said.

"That's because in order for items to get washed into the ... quite narrow strait they would have to go on quite a tortuous journey and wouldn't have been in such good condition and so close together when they were found, even though the trainers would allow the feet to happily pootle for some time."

As for why all three feet were right and not left, Boxall believes it is a coincidence.

Not everyone agrees. Curtis Ebbesmeyer, a former professor of oceanography at the University of Washington, and an expert in floating objects (he is writing a book called The Floating World for HarperCollins), said: "Left footwear and right footwear often tend to wash up at different times at different places because they float differently.

"There are beaches that collect mostly rights and other beaches that collect mostly lefts. The winds or the currents sort out left and right footwear."

However, resident Digby Jones, 80, told the New York Times: "The whole thing is a scam, as far as I'm concerned, all part of a big joke. If they go to the mortuaries on the mainland, they'll find some guy laughing his head off."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/06/canada
 
Mystery of three right feet washed up on Canadian islands

A suitably Fortean body parts mystery.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/06/canada

Mystery of three right feet washed up on Canadian islands

· No DNA match to anyone on police database
· Theories range from crime to mortuary worker's joke

Guardian Online. Helen Pidd. 06 March 2008

Canadian police are investigating the mystery of three right feet that have turned up off Vancouver Island in the past six months.

The first was washed up in August on an isolated island in British Columbia. A 12-year-old girl beachcombing with her family found a size 12 running shoe with a human right foot still inside. Six days later a couple hiking around coves on another remote island found another size 12 right foot in a trainer under a tree trunk. Then, last month, another right foot was spotted, this time bobbing about in the water off a third island.

Although the discoveries sound like a film plot, the scenario is flummoxing police in western Canada. They collected DNA from the remains but could not match them to anyone on their database.

Dr Simon Boxall, an oceanographer from the National Oceanography Centre in Southampton, said: "It is not that unusual for body parts to turn up in the sea - they can be the result of a fishing accident, or a whole body getting hit by a passing ship, for example - but the fact that all three were clustered so close together does suggest dodgy dealings."

Forensic anthropologist Brenda Clark, from Camosun College in Victoria, Canada, told the Provence newspaper it was impossible to make accurate estimates of gender, age, stature or ancestry just by looking at a foot.

Looking at a map of where the feet were found - on the islands of Jedediah, Gabriola and Valdes in Georgia Strait - does allow educated guesses as to where they may have come from, said Boxall. "Looking at the oceanography of where the feet were found, the likelihood is that they originated from within the Vancouver area itself," he said.

"That's because in order for items to get washed into the ... quite narrow strait they would have to go on quite a tortuous journey and wouldn't have been in such good condition and so close together when they were found, even though the trainers would allow the feet to happily pootle for some time."

As for why all three feet were right and not left, Boxall believes it is a coincidence.

Not everyone agrees. Curtis Ebbesmeyer, a former professor of oceanography at the University of Washington, and an expert in floating objects (he is writing a book called The Floating World for HarperCollins), said: "Left footwear and right footwear often tend to wash up at different times at different places because they float differently.

"There are beaches that collect mostly rights and other beaches that collect mostly lefts. The winds or the currents sort out left and right footwear."

However, resident Digby Jones, 80, told the New York Times: "The whole thing is a scam, as far as I'm concerned, all part of a big joke. If they go to the mortuaries on the mainland, they'll find some guy laughing his head off."
Click to expand...
 
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