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Sightings By Sceptics?

I sense an implicit set of biases that are evident (but perhaps not intended) in some of the comments posted to date. These biases relate to the orientation of the observer and the presumptive outcome of that observer's conclusion regarding a particular observation incident. IMHO these biases confuse the context of discussion and perhaps confound the originally stated point of this discussion. Beyond that, I feel to the extent these biases are actually held I dispute them.

These biases generally imply fixed points where there is no solid ground.

One such bias is that there's a clear relationship between experiential observation and belief, as if a given observation has to be taken as evidence in one or the other direction of belief. Interpretation is separate from perception, there's no reason one observation cannot induce multiple interpretations on the spot, and initial interpretations of a perception are difficult to overturn once they're embedded in memory.

More evident is the bias that one is either a true believer or a skeptic - an either / or proposition that permits no middle ground. This bias insinuates that no matter where one's belief falls in the wake of a given observation it has to be clearly on one or the other side. Such a strictly binary, black / white, orientation is inimical to Forteanism specifically and ludicrous in general.

Related to this second point is the bias that belief invested in UFO sightings is an "all or nothing" proposition. This implies if you flip from one to the other side of the line with respect to a particular incident or observation you're necessarily flipping to that side with respect to any / all such incidents / observations.

My original understanding of this thread's theme was whether persons skeptical about widespread interpretations and / or beliefs of UFO sightings had personally experienced any UFO sightings themselves. I didn't see anything about "Damascene conversion" (confessed or attributed) or doctrinaire self-identification being part of the topic at issue here.
 
My original understanding of this thread's theme was whether persons skeptical about widespread interpretations and / or beliefs of UFO sightings had personally experienced any UFO sightings themselves. I didn't see anything about "Damascene conversion" (confessed or attributed) or doctrinaire self-identification being part of the topic at issue here.

Well, I think the Damascene conversion was a bit of thread drift.

In cognitive terms one is of course not either a true believer or sceptic but I do find that in terms of discourse many ufologists - by which I mean anyone who studies the phenomenon - quite clearly signal some form of 'allegiance'. This pattern is part of the cultural phenomenon itself - the dialogue between 'believers', 'sceptics', and 'debunkers', all peering at lights in the sky. I tend to view the whole thing as a continuum of experience myself, but that's just what works for me when thinking about it.
 
The most difficult position to hold is the middle, open-minded one.

Here's my take on (what I understood to be ... ) the original query ...

If "skeptic" connotes the position between true believers and knee-jerk debunkers, then I'd have to say I'm such a "skeptic." Here's how my own sightings have affected me.

From circa age 10 onward I read a lot of UFO articles and books. At that age I tended to be more credulous, thus I tended to "swallow" some of the elaborated accounts - i.e., original sightings subsequently embellished by non-witness writers to insert or insinuate features or details pushing the reader toward an ETH interpretation. Nonetheless, I (as a young science nerd) maintained a suspension of belief - perhaps better described as a suspension of commitment to a particular belief - about UFOs.

From childhood onward I've had occasion to view a lot of nighttime aerial phenomena and objects. I was also interested in aviation and liked to try and identify any aircraft I saw overhead (even at night). The most "saucer-like" things I observed in those early years - ovoid lights I sometimes saw flitting about the sky - were understood to be the reflections of large searchlights or the rotating aeronautical beacons on some local mountains.

In all the years of watching the skies there were two substantive personal sightings (circa age 15 / 16 and circa age 20) I was never able to credibly explain as mundane.[1]

Neither of these experiences caused me to suddenly claim or switch "allegiance" (as you put it). Both were filed away as "pending" or "unknown" without affecting my generally neutral but interested position on the subject.

Since those youthful sightings I can't claim to have witnessed anything similarly resistant to mundane explanations. Other factors and developments have, however, eroded my ability to remain automatically and steadfastly neutral about some sightings (some of which involved me in the later years). These factors included:

- A growing awareness how much of the UFO lore was added after the fact by people who benefited from sensationalism.

- A growing awareness (via research) how little the woo-encrusted modern versions of famous UFO stories reflect the basic facts reported originally.

- A wider understanding and appreciation of the diverse aeronautical activities and aerial phenomena that could be construed as UFOs.

- A growing ennui caused by repeatedly sighting something mundane or readily-explicable that less knowledgeable companions / co-witnesses immediately seized upon as UFOs generally and presumptive extraterrestrial craft specifically.

In summary ... I'm not a diehard skeptic with regard to anomalous observations, because I've had them myself and been a co-witness to what others have seen and made of such observations. On the other hand, I've grown a lot more skeptical about the interpretations others have projected onto anomalous observations.

[1] I've previously posted and comments on these:

Posted 2011: A sighting with other witnesses of a V-formation of lights
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...at-have-multiple-witnesses.44872/post-1084531

Posted 2017: Two sightings of a bright point-source object on separate occasions
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...in-ufology-fact-or-fiction.63171/post-1718528
(... and later posts)
 
I remember them being featured in a documentary in the BBC Horizon series that was the talk of my primary school, amongst those whose parents had allowed them to stay up to watch it. I think it also featured Travis Walton (possibly) and a few other classics.

I have to say even at that age I found the film a bit underwhelming - but even so was surprised that the case had fallen off the radar (no pun intended) in the intervening years. I know the squid boat explanation for the radar/visual / film sighting of a very bright object on the first part of the northward leg is quite strong, but even so the whole series of events seems more compelling than a lot of better known sightings
True. I suppose at the end of the day they were just unexplained lights in the sky caught on film. They didn't land and telepathically send children images of a nuclear/climate holocaust, abduct a lumberjack for five days, offer someone unsalted pancakes, mutilate cattle or show someone a star map that just coincidentally looks like the map of the D-Day invasion routes hanging in their office at work...
 
True. I suppose at the end of the day they were just unexplained lights in the sky caught on film. They didn't land and telepathically send children images of a nuclear/climate holocaust, abduct a lumberjack for five days, offer someone unsalted pancakes, mutilate cattle or show someone a star map that just coincidentally looks like the map of the D-Day invasion routes hanging in their office at work...

On the other hand, Fogarty himself experienced a "dreadful feeling of something in the plane" with them and gained the impression that they were "being allowed to film". The objective reality of that impression is another matter, but it does show that the human urge to interpret and respond is always just beneath the surface.

Maybe if he'd made a bit more of those responses in his interviews the case would still be being discussed in certain circles as a 'classic' - not because it was more credible, but as it makes for a better story.
 
The most difficult position to hold is the middle, open-minded one.

Here's my take on (what I understood to be ... ) the original query ...

If "skeptic" connotes the position between true believers and knee-jerk debunkers, then I'd have to say I'm such a "skeptic." Here's how my own sightings have affected me.

From circa age 10 onward I read a lot of UFO articles and books. At that age I tended to be more credulous, thus I tended to "swallow" some of the elaborated accounts - i.e., original sightings subsequently embellished by non-witness writers to insert or insinuate features or details pushing the reader toward an ETH interpretation. Nonetheless, I (as a young science nerd) maintained a suspension of belief - perhaps better described as a suspension of commitment to a particular belief - about UFOs.

From childhood onward I've had occasion to view a lot of nighttime aerial phenomena and objects. I was also interested in aviation and liked to try and identify any aircraft I saw overhead (even at night). The most "saucer-like" things I observed in those early years - ovoid lights I sometimes saw flitting about the sky - were understood to be the reflections of large searchlights or the rotating aeronautical beacons on some local mountains.

In all the years of watching the skies there were two substantive personal sightings (circa age 15 / 16 and circa age 20) I was never able to credibly explain as mundane.[1]

Neither of these experiences caused me to suddenly claim or switch "allegiance" (as you put it). Both were filed away as "pending" or "unknown" without affecting my generally neutral but interested position on the subject.

Since those youthful sightings I can't claim to have witnessed anything similarly resistant to mundane explanations. Other factors and developments have, however, eroded my ability to remain automatically and steadfastly neutral about some sightings (some of which involved me in the later years). These factors included:

- A growing awareness how much of the UFO lore was added after the fact by people who benefited from sensationalism.

- A growing awareness (via research) how little the woo-encrusted modern versions of famous UFO stories reflect the basic facts reported originally.

- A wider understanding and appreciation of the diverse aeronautical activities and aerial phenomena that could be construed as UFOs.

- A growing ennui caused by repeatedly sighting something mundane or readily-explicable that less knowledgeable companions / co-witnesses immediately seized upon as UFOs generally and presumptive extraterrestrial craft specifically.

In summary ... I'm not a diehard skeptic with regard to anomalous observations, because I've had them myself and been a co-witness to what others have seen and made of such observations. On the other hand, I've grown a lot more skeptical about the interpretations others have projected onto anomalous observations.

[1] I've previously posted and comments on these:

Posted 2011: A sighting with other witnesses of a V-formation of lights
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...at-have-multiple-witnesses.44872/post-1084531

Posted 2017: Two sightings of a bright point-source object on separate occasions
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...in-ufology-fact-or-fiction.63171/post-1718528
(... and later posts)
Fantastic post that sums up how I feel about UFOs at the moment.

For example, there was definitely something unusual going on in West Wales during the famous UFO 'flap' of 1976-78. That something may have had more to do with covert NATO Cold War goings-on than aliens, but the fact is that people were seeing strange craft and humanoids. The problem is that two of the three main 'investigations' of these events was carried out and published in book form by firm believers in the 'UFOs are alien spacecraft visiting our planet' theory. As such, there were liberal doses of confirmation bias applied to every incident and every witness that came forward was trusted implicitly. A third investigation by Pugh and Holiday (The Dyfed Enigma) at least attempted to instil some scientific rigour and stuck to the narrative but even they were BUFORA members and so the possibility of an independent investigation was lost.

iIt wasn't until several years later that the excellent Jenny Randles (a forum member) drove a coach and horses through the more ludicrous exaggerations and speculation-presented-as-fact in an article for The Unexplained magazine. At that time I was 16-years-old and not best pleased with Jenny for highlighting so many flaws within the books I had read so reverently from cover-to-cover, but I understand now that she simply undertook her own onsite investigation and saw through the hyperbole. In many senses this was my UFO awakening and I became aware of how it is possible to be manipulated by such self-styled investigators.

I owe it to Jenny as not long afterwards I had a 'UFO encounter' of my own. It was later that summer and I was in our village playground killing time as I waited for some mates to join me. The clouds above me were moving fast with occasional patches of clear blue sky. There was nowhere to sit (just some children's swings and a slide) so I lay down on the dry grass and watched the clouds. Suddenly I felt and a static electricity 'buzzing' and as a gap opened up in the clouds I glimpsed a fleet of Flash Gordon-esque rocket ships at about six thousand feet (?) that were travelling parallel to the ground and all with flames belching out from the rear. I shook my head and told myself this couldn't be happening and then the gap in the clouds was gone but the buzzing noise lingered for a while

This event puzzled me for many years until I put two-and-two together. Firstly, it was as a six year old in that very park that I disturbed a wasps nest within a bank very close to where I had been lying in the grass ten years later. The angry wasps had chased me and I was stung multiple time, an experience that has remained strong in my memory. Secondly, I had watched the new Flash Gordon film on cine film at school earlier that year (1984). Finally, where I saw the 'rocket ships' is directly on a flightpath used by turbo-prop aircraft flying between Ireland and Exeter airport. I now believe I fell into a daydream and the noise of a turboprop aircraft droning overhead and the memory of the wasp attack (buzzing flying objects with 'fiery' tails) triggered my 'sighting'. I do not believe I saw a fleet of UFOs with flames emitting from their engines whilst on a course for Exeter Airport. I am also mightily glad that I did not immediately contact one of those self-styled investigators - whose work I had believed without question up until that year - as goodness knows where that might have taken me in terms of my sighting being promoted to the media (and most probably against my wishes).

I do believe that some UFO experiences point to an 'intelligence' that interacts with humanity on its own terms (The Distortion Theory) but sadly too many of the precious few that cannot be rationally explained fall into the wrong hands (advocates of hypnotic regression being the biggest culprit)
 
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- A growing awareness how much of the UFO lore was added after the fact by people who benefited from sensationalism.

- A growing awareness (via research) how little the woo-encrusted modern versions of famous UFO stories reflect the basic facts reported originally.

I think this parallels my own experience fairly closely - particularly the understanding that people gain benefit from certain interpretations, not just from the obvious such as book sales or lecturing fees, but also in less immediately tangible terms. Moreover this process of elaboration can begin almost as soon as the experience itself - whatever that is - has finished; perhaps even before that.
 
Fantastic post that sums up how I feel about UFOs at the moment.

For example, there was definitely something unusual going on in West Wales during the famous UFO 'flap' of 1976-78. That something may have had more to do with covert NATO Cold War goings-on than aliens, but the fact is that people were seeing strange craft and humanoids. The problem is that two of the three main 'investigations' of these events was carried out and published in book form by firm believers in the 'UFOs are alien spacecraft visiting our planet' theory. As such, there were liberal doses of confirmation bias applied to every incident and every witness that came forward was trusted implicitly. A third investigation by Pugh and Holiday (The Dyfed Enigma) at least attempted to instil some scientific rigour and stuck to the narrative but even they were BUFORA members and so the possibility of an independent investigation was lost.

iIt wasn't until several years later that the excellent Jenny Randles (a forum member) drove a coach and horses through the more ludicrous exaggerations and speculation-presented-as-fact in an article for The Unexplained magazine. At that time I was 16-years-old not best pleased with Jenny for highlighting so many flaws within the books I had read so reverently from cover-to-cover, but I understand now that she simply undertook her own onsite investigation and saw through the hyperbole. In many senses this was my UFO awakening and I became aware of how it is possible to be manipulated by such self-styled investigators.

I owe it to Jenny as not long afterwards I had a 'UFO encounter' of my own. It was later that summer and I was in our village playground killing time as I waited for some mates to join me. The clouds above me were moving fast and occasional patches of clear sky. There was nowhere to sit (just some children's swings and a slide) so I lay down on the dry grass and watched the clouds. Suddenly I felt and a static electricity 'buzzing' and as a gap opened up in the clouds I glimpsed a fleet of Flash Gordon-esque rocket ships at about six thousand feet (?) that were travelling parallel to the ground and all with flames belching out from the rear. I shook my head and told myself this couldn't be happening and then the gap in the clouds was gone but the buzzing noise lingered for a while

This event puzzled me for many years until I put two-and-two together. Firstly, it was as a six year old in that very park that I disturbed a wasps nest within a bank very close to where I had been lying in the grass ten years later. The angry wasps had chased me and I was stung multiple time, an experience that has remained strong in my memory. Secondly, I had watched the new Flash Gordon film on cine film at school earlier that year (1984). Finally, where I saw the 'rocket ships' is directly on a flightpath used by turbo-prop aircraft flying between Ireland and Exeter airport. I now believe I fell into a daydream and the noise of a turboprop aircraft droning overhead and the memory of the wasp attack (buzzing flying objects with fiery tails) triggered my 'sighting'. I do not believe I saw a fleet of UFOs with flames emitting from their engines whilst on a course for Exeter Airport. I am also mightily glad that I did not contact one of those self-styled investigators, whose work I had believed without question up until the previous year, as goodness knows where that might have taken me in terms of my sighting being promoted to the media (and most probably against my wishes).

I do believe that some UFO experiences point to an 'intelligence' that interacts with humanity on its own terms (The Distortion Theory) but sadly too many of the precious few that cannot be rationally explained fall into the wrong hands (advocates of hypnotic regression being the biggest culprit)

This is absolutely brilliant - reminds me very much of the Angus Brooks sighting in the sense there is also the 'frame' experience of lying down on the grass and watching the clouds.

It's not coincidental, I think, that so many medieval poems use the same framework of the 'narrator' lying down on a grassy bank before having their vision, or dream, or whatever.
 
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