Sleep Paralysis & Night Hag Experience

[OldTimeRadio]

Are there any accounts of visits from the Old Hag reported by sleepers reposing in the bright-lit daytime? I don't believe I've seen any.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Are there any accounts of visits from the Old Hag reported by sleepers reposing in the bright-lit daytime? I don't believe I've seen any.

I've read accounts from people who were having a snooze on their couch but I am unsure if they specified if it was daylight or not.

One might suspect if it was parasomnia that people working nights might have more disturbed sleep patterns and might encounter more SP. However, most reports don't specify the time people are asleep and I know I'd tend to assume it was night even if there was no evidence.

Might be one of those weird uncollected data points that would be quite interesting.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Might be one of those weird uncollected data points that would be quite interesting.

I agree, and it's a little surprising that we've apparently not given any previous consideration to the matter.

I do have one of those anonymous web postings that either means very much or very little but which details a visit from a daytime demon. The story transpires right here in South-West Ohio. Too close for my personal comfort. 'Way too close.

A woman who worked the night shift had trouble sleeping during the daylight hours. So she covered her bedroom windows with thick black cardboard and very heavy drapes, then taped over any remaining light leaks. The result was a bedroom that was inpenetrably black even in the brightness of the noonday.

One day she awoke to see a bat-winged humanoid standing by her bed. It seemed as surprised to see her awake as she was to see it. The creature wrapped itself in its own wings and disappeared into the darkness.

If this story is true, it leads me to wonder if "demons" can perceive unexpected darkness during the daylight hours as easily as we can recognize unexpected illumination at night.

 

[TheQuixote]

Are there any accounts of visits from the Old Hag reported by sleepers reposing in the bright-lit daytime? I don't believe I've seen any.

I've never seen the achetypal 'Old hag' but I do have SP and yes, I've had it during the daytime too.

The person I 'saw' next to my bed after a nightshift was a resident in the group home I was working in at the time. Someone who I found uncomfortable to be left alone with (knowing his history) and it scared the hell out of me as I couldn't move (obvs.) but was really convinced he had somehow got into the property. I had unlined curtains on the window, cream-coloured, and it was just after midday so the room was still fairly bright.

 

[mindalai]

I've had SP during the day following nightshifts but I do keep my room quite dark so I don't know if that counts.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Thank you, Quixote and Minda.

Personally I've always liked sleeping in the daylight. Some of the most restful naps I've ever had have been in a little pool of shade under a leafy tree during the bright heat of summer.

 

[firefly52]

Are there any accounts of visits from the Old Hag reported by sleepers reposing in the bright-lit daytime? I don't believe I've seen any.

I've not experienced "The old hag" phenomena, but have had most of the other 'sleep paralysis' "symptoms" and yes, I've experienced them day and night time. (in day light too)
The day time ones have usually happened during a time of sleep deprivation, and extreme fatigue. When I've felt I've had to 'give in' and take nap. often on the sofa.
And sure enough I'd say about 7 times out of ten I've slipped right into the 'S.P' zone.
Seeing this has happened so frequently at these times of sleep deprivation, I come to realise that if I actually want to have the 'S.P' experience (Which for me is usually followed by an 'out of bady experience' and then a fab 'lucid dream') all I have to do is get very tired before a nap, or another way, which I keep meaning to try out as a study on 'S.P', 'O.B.E, s and L.D's, would be to set the alarm clock a couple of hours before 'get up time' and wake up just enough to slip into 'S.P' state as I 'doze off' again....
I'm sure this would work for
most people, including those who've yet to have the 'S.P' experience!
I'm not too sure if there are spirits or 'demons' involved?? (But I know it can feel like it at the time!) It seems to be to be just an altered state of mind, where by one is both awake yet dreaming at the same time.
Although I can't help but wonder if in this state, if there are such things as 'spiritual realms' etc... the 'doorway' to these dimensions is opened?
Also 'Time travel' seems very real in this state, and is great fun too!
Good night.... Woops, I mean good morning! ... or maybe "Good morning, good knight"!!??
Firefly 52.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Thanks for that - very interesting.

Thank you, Quixote and Minda.

Personally I've always liked sleeping in the daylight. Some of the most restful naps I've ever had have been in a little pool of shade under a leafy tree during the bright heat of summer.

Have you experienced the hag at any time? Feel free to just throw me a link to the post if you've already posted here

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I'm not too sure if there are spirits or 'demons' involved??

Neither am I, but it strikes me that many contemporary SP/OH researchers are far too quick to dismiss even the possibility. They seem to have interest only in stick-and-stone wholly materialistic explanations. No others need even bother to apply.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

I'm not too sure if there are spirits or 'demons' involved??

Neither am I, but it strikes me that many contemporary SP/OH researchers are far too quick to dismiss even the possibility. They seem to have interest only in stick-and-stone wholly materialistic explanations. No others need even bother to apply.

Equally there is no reason to invoke demons if the phenomena has a natural explanation.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Have you experienced the hag at any time?

No I haven't, Emps, not even once.

But I've been terribly afraid of seeing the Hag from earliest childhood on. Occasionally I experience this even today and it's lights on for the rest of the night. (I've never had the fear during the daylight hours, nor even at night when I'm awake and engaged in some pursuit.)

The most important point here is that this fear had its genesis decades before I ever heard of the Old Hag as a discrete phenomenon which involved other people than myself,.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Preying on your mind

Have you experienced the hag at any time?

No I haven't, Emps, not even once.

But I've been terribly afraid of seeing the Hag from earliest childhood on. Occasionally I experience this even today and it's lights on for the rest of the night. (I've never had the fear during the daylight hours, nor even at night when I'm awake and engaged in some pursuit.)

Yes I only had the one experience but that was enough for me. :shock:

The other night I was just settling down to bed and then thought "now would be an ideal time to try to invoke the Owlman", then I realised how stupid that'd be as if he turned up I'd crap myself, then I realised I was anxious about that, then I wondered if my anxiety might make him show up, which made me scared, which I thought was a guaranteed way of making him show up and then I thought I'd better go to sleep as I'd spent an hour messing around with the laternatives and I'd deal with Old Beaky if he showed up. Which he didn't

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Equally there is no reason to invoke demons if the phenomena has a natural explanation.

But I don't neccessarily regard demons as "un-natural," at least not in this context. If things exist, they're "natural."

In any case, if disembodied intelligences exist around us, and if at least some of those intelligences are malignantly-inclined towards the human race, I see no reason that they wouldn't have more success pestering our "defenseless" sleeping selves than during the hours of our wakeful alertness. That, in fact, seems to be the massed testimony of 5,000 years of human record-keeping.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Equally there is no reason to invoke demons if the phenomena has a natural explanation.

But I don't neccessarily regard demons as "un-natural," at least not in this context. If things exist, they're "natural."

Natural as opposed to supernatural. Internal as opposed to external.

Parasomnia is the simpler and more testable hypothesis and has to be falsified before you have to invoke external causes.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Parasomnia is the simpler and more testable hypothesis and has to be falsified before you have to invoke external causes.

But isn't "parasomnia" merely a collective term for a assemblage of sleep-related symptoms, regardless of whether those symptoms are triggered by spooks or spicy cheese?

 

[maureenmac1]

I have suffered from SP for many years now, although it occurs sporadically. When I do it seems to last for about a month, with about 3 occurences a week in that space of time.
My SP started when I was 20, and the first bout was incredibly scarey, as i was pregnant at the time. I haven't ever had the night hag visit me as such, but there has been the feeling of someone been in the room with me. I haven't had SP for a while now, but that may be due to the medication I take.
I can't ever recall a daytime experience, but then I never really sleep during the day.
I have tried to connect events with SP, but I haven't really come up with any plausible acccounts with my life to explain any cause and effect reasoning.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Parasomnia is the simpler and more testable hypothesis and has to be falsified before you have to invoke external causes.

But isn't "parasomnia" merely a collective term for a assemblage of sleep-related symptoms, regardless of whether those symptoms are triggered by spooks or spicy cheese?

If SP is a parasomnia (i.e. a sleep disorder) then you'd no more invoke demons as an explanation for the cause than you would possession as an explanation for sleep walking.

parasomnias represent the activation of physiological systems at inappropriate times during the sleep-wake cycle. In particular, these disorders involve activation of the autonomic nervous system, motor system, or cognitive processes during sleep or sleep-wake transitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasomnia

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I'm not arguing that sleepwalking, sleep talking, snoring, and so on have anything other than routine physiological causes. [Although in the case of sleeptalking, that might depend on what is actually being said.]

I am speaking specifically of the "Old Hag" and the overwhelming malignancy associated with appearances of that creature, even in cases (such as my own) where "she" has never actually been visually observed, only dreaded beyond damnation.

Perhaps I'm just being silly, but I tend to associate such an outrageously suffocating falling-crushed-and-devoured-into-a- black-maw- of-hatred hideousness as being "demonic." As far as I'm concerned, and erroneous or not, such a high-volume, high-powered fear-totally-beyond-fear is NOT any sort of normal physiological reaction.

But at least I'm not alone. And others in fact must have had experiences much worse than my own, since I never actually saw.

 

[firefly52]

I agree that during an episode of 'Sleep paralysis' it certainly feels as though there is a 'Demon' in the room!
When my first 'S.P' happened I was about 9, and I truly thought it was the devil after me! So what I started doing (and still do at extra scary ones)
was (mentally) reciting the 'Lords prayer'.
Not that it helped tho'! It actually makes the sensation ten times worse!
For me, during this time, there is a sense of buzzing and spinning about the head, which becomes more and more intense as I would (and do) repeat the 'Lords prayer'. It totally feels as if a 'battle' is going on. But as the years have gone on, I suppose I've gotten used to the whole scenario to the point of sometimes enjoying the battle! (Also knowing that a fun 'out of body experience' and 'lucid dream' is coming up next, as soon as I get past the battle stage, helps no end!)
I would be curious to hear if others also experience the same 'Buzzing' and 'Spinning' sensation, during the first stage of 'S.P'?
My 'logical' side says it's probably down to the blood rushing around in the head, or maybe even a form of 'sleep epilepsy' if such a thing exists?
But I find it very interesting that various people around the world also get to see 'The old hag'! Not that I'd be to keen to see her though! I think I'll stick to the devil, as you know what they say "Better the devil you know"!!
Firefly 52

 

[mindalai]

I get the buzzing but not the spinning. It feels like I'm being electrocuted - all my muscles seem to contract, my jaw clenches and it feels like my hands turn into claws - and I can hear the buzzing getting louder and louder until it feels like my head is going to implode. I think that when the buzzing and "electrocution" gets unbearable that's when I go back into unconscious sleep. It hasn't happened to me for a while actually now I think about it but it used to happen at least every couple of weeks. I wonder why it's stopped.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I first experienced that "buzzing" at age 33 and have ever since associated it with extreme evil.

But for what it's worth a similar buzzing has apparently been reported by Air Force personel walking through radar beams. It's been described as feeling like a hive of bees buzzing at the back of the head, or indeed just behind the head.

 

[Gunnlod]

I've got MS so spinning and buzzing is pretty much my natural state.

I've had visits from the Hag for as long as I can remember. Sitting here now, I can weigh up the evidence and accept the rational physiological causes.

But that all goes out the window when she's around. I've never actually seen her, but she's a definite physical presence And she scares the bejaysus out of me.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

But that all goes out the window when she's around. I've never actually seen her, but she's a definite physical presence And she scares the bejaysus out of me.

That's one of the reasons why I suspect that those "rational physiological" facctors may be more triggers than causes.

I've never seen the "Old Hag" either, but by God am I ever afraid of her.

 

[DeeDeeTee]

I too took a rational view on night hag experiences, very quickly when they started. (I was quite a militant physicist when growing up, but I've mellowed out a lot now . ) But even with lots of practise I find it impossible to maintain the old hag state - there is a crescendo of terror and discomfort.

On the odd occasion that I do break on through this barrier I get the most horrible and vivid nightmares...mmmm

I also sleep on my side, so I tend to get her on my back (coward I know). But I've found that if I don't swap sides and turn the other way, the whole experience repeats.

As a corollary, to lift the mood perhaps, as anyone had the opposite sensation from old hag? I suppose the opposite might be 'young goddess'. It did happen once to me - so instead of dread and fear, I got the sense of a benevolent and kind presence, as well as a very pleasant pressure sensation all over shoulders and back.

Of course I still managed to scare myself, as I was lying there thinking "this is beautiful" I thought a question to 'her' - which she then promptly answered with a deep and meaningful answer! which gave me a bloody shock and I woke up.

Unfortunately I did not write this dialogue down, hence it is lost forever (memo to self - keep note pad and pen next to bed....)

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Of course I still managed to scare myself, as I was lying there thinking "this is beautiful" I thought a question to 'her' - which she then promptly answered with a deep and meaningful answer! which gave me a bloody shock and I woke up.

Unfortunately I did not write this dialogue down, hence it is lost forever (memo to self - keep note pad and pen next to bed....)

But let's not forget that the Great Secret of the Universe was revealed to the famous American physician and author Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes while he experimented upon himself with inhaled "ether" during the middle of the 19th Century. The great thought would vanish as soon as his mind unfogged. He eventually managed to dictate the "secret" to a secretary while still in the altered state:

"The Universe is permeated with a thick odor of turpentine." <ggg>

 

[firefly52]

Thanks for the buzzing info y'all. I find it somewhat comforting to know that others have experienced this awful sensation!
What puzzels me though, is that when, on the rare occasion, over the years, I've mentioned it to a Doctor (wondering if it may be some sort of 'Sleep epilepsy'?) They've reacted as if they've never heard of such a condition.
And as 'mindalai' mentioned I too get the sensation of 'Electrical jolts' at what I take to be 'pulse points' all over the body, and to counter that, I feel I must move to break the 'power' it has over me. This takes great effort, and usually one of two things happen next. One I'll either 'take off' and into a 'Lucid dream'... Or I'll come to feeling as though I've been run over by a truck, after running a 50 mile marathon! and as 'Dee Dee Tee' has said, I feel that I must 'turn over' or else I will slip right back into it!
So knowing that there are people out there that experience these same 'symptoms' if strikes me as very odd that Doctors ( or at least the couple I've seen) are unaware of it?
Another interesting part of the 'S.P' experience that I've had a few times, is what seems to be evidence of a 'spiritual body'.. What's happened is that as I'm lying there in the 'conscious, but paralysed' state I've made effort to move, say my hand up to my face, and have succeeded to the point that I could, say rub my face, and have felt my hand rubbing my face, as real as real... But then I've 'come to' to discover that my 'real' (physical) arm and hand is down by my side!
Tis all very strange!

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

What puzzels me though, is that when, on the rare occasion, over the years, I've mentioned it to a Doctor (wondering if it may be some sort of 'Sleep epilepsy'?) They've reacted as if they've never heard of such a condition.

A bit sad considering there is a lot of academic interest in this.

Al Cheyne at the University of Waterloo has done a lot of research (and has a lot of info on his site as well as a P survey):
http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html

There are also various books (Hufford's book is a really detailled one), papers and articles:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 631#596631
www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 796#466796
www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 116#558116

I suppose some supernatural overtones may make some doctors go blank at the mention of it. The problem is that there is probably not much that can be done but if it was a real problem you could probbaly get yourself refered to a sleep disorder research clinic - they'd at least know what you are talking about

Next time print some of the above linked material off and wave it in their face (OK possibly not literally as we don't want you get sectioned or anything ).

 

[firefly52]

Thanks for the info Emps. Will look into it. and may try to get away with 'sidling' the info to the Doc in a calm, cool and not insane manner!

Firefly52

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

--------------
So El Muerto the film is in the pipeline (with the chappie from That Seventies Show) and I'm sure we'll have a thread on that elsewhere what I wanted to highlight was the inspiration for the look of the character:

One of the most defining points in the creation of El Muerto was when Hernandez was awoken by a nightmare where a ghost was strangling him:

(Taken from "El Muerto on My Mind")

"I was getting the life choked out of me! Attacked in my sleep by this thing, choking the life from me. It's grip on my throat felt like a steel clamp being tightened mercilessly. What really freaked me out was the thing had the exact facial designs as El Muerto! Bone white with blackened eyeballs, black teeth marks and a cross on his forehead...The bed was shaking violently and my last bit of breath was used up, then, it stopped...strangely I didn't feel as if I awoke from the dream, it was more like the thing had suddenly disappeared...I could feel where it's fingers had just been wrapped around my neck."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Muerto# ... on_History

 

[DeeDeeTee]

firefly52 wrote:
What puzzels me though, is that when, on the rare occasion, over the years, I've mentioned it to a Doctor (wondering if it may be some sort of 'Sleep epilepsy'?) They've reacted as if they've never heard of such a condition.

The first time I mentioned it to a doctor was when, as I was nearing the end of my PhD and being quite stressed and I started getting hallucinations of voices for the first time. (Stress, whether apparent or not, does seems to be a big instigatator of hynagogic effects).

As soon as I mentioned it to him he stared at me with the 'right-where-is-the-door-in-case-there-is-any-problems-aah-he's-blocking-my-way-out...' kinda look . Didn't have an answer, but luckily (as he was the temp doc) my usual one told me a week later that it was hynagogic hallucinations, alot of people have them, they are not indicative of a mental problem and that as they appear to be 'harmless' not a lot of work has been done on what they are or how to cure them.

I think for the medical profession most 'Sleep epilepsy' or hynogogic activity just falls through the cracks - most people either get it infrequently or deal with it adequately without help, and it does not appear to result in clinical problems. Hence because of this little is done with it - or understood.