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So How Do You Run A Car On Water?

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Anonymous

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OK in the war thread IJ mentioned he knew someone who had converted their car to run on water. This raises a few questions:

1) How the hell do you do it, in actual specifics?

2) Why aren't there loads of people driving around in what would be a cost-free fuelled car?

3) Has anyone here done it themselves?

After a bit of googling I came up with a Philipino inventor called Daniel Dingle who claims to have invented such a process over 20 years ago, and yet the market has not proliferated. Is this a hoax or a coverup? I know car companies hold back new technology to wait for the market to be ready, but 20 years?
 
Check out a company called ReGenTech or SiGen, as they now style themselves.
 
Water power

I'm a little rusty on this, as it's several years since I worked for Sh**l.
The engine would not run directly on water, the water would first go through a process (possibly called electolysis?) where a very large electric (current / charge?) is passed through it. this results in oxygen being produced at one electrode, hydrogen at the other. The hydrogen is then fed to the engine, and ignited in conjunction with the oxygen. The exhaust product is mainly water. This may seem like free energy, however the batteries / electrical power source has to be pretty damn powerful, probably requiring huge output from fossil-fuel munching / radioactivity producing power stations.
 
Of course, you could use a much larger version as a powerstation and devote one whole turbine to its own fuel cells...
 
regen tech

Doesn't read like they do water conversions but create fuel cell engines, i.e. running off metal hydride (h2 bonded to hydride material).


From the Daniel Dingle site:


"The electricity from the battery splits the water into its hydrogen and oxygen components, and this hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Normally it takes temperatures of about 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit to generate hydrogen from water, but here I am just using an ordinary 12-volt battery," he claimed.
Click to expand...
 
Inverurie Jones said:
Of course, you could use a much larger version as a powerstation and devote one whole turbine to its own fuel cells...
Click to expand...

As I said on the overpopulation thread, I believe Shell plan on using solar power in a sub-sahara region to generate hydrogen fuel cells. The main problems being getting water there and storing the hydrogen for use in a commercial vehicle.

But I have never heard of a successful water car before ...
 
Not too long ago, they'd never heard of a successful jet engine, either...:D
 
where did your friend find out how to convert his car? Can you get the specs?
 
It was just an engine...there wasn't a car attached to it. It was a demonstration by ReGenTech at public event.
 
I was discussing this with someone just the other day. "The Hydrogen Car" was promoted as being the next big thing for a while 25 years ago. It was, sadly, a scam. A normal petrol engine apparently will run for a limited time on a mixture of water and acetone (I think, need to check) without modification. The engine will eventually stop functioning altogether, but by then you've made off with the money.

Not wanting to tar any of the companies mentione above with the allegations of fraud (at least, not until I've had a chance to check the links above), I have heard that this scam has made a resurgence in the current era of looking for alternative energy sources.

I will stress that there are people who are genuinely looking at fuel cells, and similar alternative energy sources for cars, etc, so not all people who make these claims are frauds, but I'd do some really serious research if anyone asks you to invest in one.
 
I think I'll find myself some help and build the prototype of an engine I've been planning since S-Grade physics...
 
quote:"The electricity from the battery splits the water into its hydrogen and oxygen components, and this hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Normally it takes temperatures of about 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit to generate hydrogen from water, but here I am just using an ordinary 12-volt battery," he claimed.


this quote speek to me very loud of CHARALTAN........ anyone can generate Hydrogen with a battery and some water. He just relying on people who read this being asleep on that day at school. Fact is it takes more energy to split water than u can get out by bruning it agin...and storage is a problem too...
 
siriuss said:
After a bit of googling I came up with a Philipino inventor called Daniel Dingle who claims to have invented such a process over 20 years ago, and yet the market has not proliferated. Is this a hoax or a coverup?
Click to expand...

I'll happily stand up and declare that the guy is talking rubbish. :D On the page that you give he claims

How it works according to him, his reactor uses electricity from a 12-volt car battery to transform saltwater or ordinary tap water with salt into deuterium oxide or heavy water, which is chiefly used as a coolant for nuclear reactors.

Deuterium is actually a hydrogen isotope with twice the mass of ordinary hydrogen, and heavy water is produced when the hydrogen atoms in H2O are replaced with deuterium.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that if he can do that, then he is on course for a Nobel prize. There was a lot of controversy over cold fusion (which, to an extent, is still ongoing) but at least that had an air of plausibility.

The only way that you get from "light" hydrogen to deuterium is by the addition of a neutron. A deuterium nucleus is just a proton and a neutron. Electrolysis is not going to do the job. Note that you can extract deuterium oxide (or heavy water) from sea water (it is a natural component) by an electrolytic process, but you can't make it.


"The electricity from the battery splits the water into its hydrogen and oxygen components, and this hydrogen can then be used to power the car engine. Normally it takes temperatures of about 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit to generate hydrogen from water, but here I am just using an ordinary 12-volt battery," he claimed.
Click to expand...

Electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen is the sort of thing that kids do as a school chemistry experiment.
Try http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/projects/split_h2o.html
So generating hydrogen from water is child's play. ;)

Either a charlatan or just very misguided. :)
 
Yeah, I thought you meant putting water in a normal petrol engine :p
 
Er...
don't forget that fuel cells do work, and represent one of the best methods of energy storage for cars etc
(except nasty nasty fossil fuel petrol of course)
the space program has used them for long enough,
and they are nowt but water split into H2 + O2
 
Eburacum45 said:
Er...
don't forget that fuel cells do work, and represent one of the best methods of energy storage for cars etc
(except nasty nasty fossil fuel petrol of course)
the space program has used them for long enough,
and they are nowt but water split into H2 + O2
Click to expand...

they dont work in any way that would make a car go anything like a modern car. or like any car realy... Direct burning isnt so ineficient realy when viewed next to most other ways of organiseing extraction of energy....
 
Eburacum45 said:
Er...
don't forget that fuel cells do work, and represent one of the best methods of energy storage for cars etc
Click to expand...
Thats the thing. Its just a different form of energy storage. The guy seemed to be touting it as a means of getting energy from nothing.
 
Wasn't there a motorbike that runs on hydrogen?


Revolutionary bike 'too quiet'

The world's first purpose-built hydrogen-powered bike could be fitted with an artificial "vroom" because of worries its silence might be dangerous.
Click to expand...


Link to story


So does this mean that hydrogen powered cars will also be made available one day?

Will they be 'dangerously quiet'?
 
Many years ago, when I were a nipper, a teacher and a group of pupils at my comprehensive got together and built a windmill to electrolyse water and converted a 2CV to run on the hydrogen produced.

This would have been round about 1978.

It's not rocket science. As always though, the rpoblem is scaling up to industrial levels.

Also, the idea of a tank of compressed hydrogen in your car is scarier than a tank of liquid petrol.
 
imho id rather avoid a car crash with a tank of hydrogen(aka the hindenberg)
also you would need a stainless steel top half of your engine including exaust(rust)
but im of the opinion that the whole water thing is somehow possible but has been swept under the carpet in favour of oil as so many of the worlds economies(cough america)depend on the revinue etc
this is where the whole fuel cell stuff comes in(a clever way of not calling it water)
also iirc the reason nuclear submarines can stay underwater for so long it that it obviously turns water into oxygen.
 
I've seen footage just this weekend of a car running on hydrogen fed directly into the carburettor.

Of course, on the second attempt, there was an engine fire. But it still ran normally.
 
TinFinger said:
imho id rather avoid a car crash with a tank of hydrogen(aka the hindenberg)
.
Click to expand...


Wasn't that a different gas that was used?
 
No.

They did start switching shortly afterwards to Helium. An inert gas.
 
misterwibble said:
No.

They did start switching shortly afterwards to Helium. An inert gas.
Click to expand...

Ah.

This use of hydrogen in the car would have me worried then - but perhaps it is no more dangerous than petrol?
 
no hydrogen is far more explosive
iirc its the most explosive gas
petrol in cars is atomized and mixed with air to mimic a gas
 
TinFinger said:
petrol in cars is atomized and mixed with air to mimic a gas
Click to expand...
..which is also what happens to some of it in a crash, where (as it happens) there may also be plenty of sparks to ignite it. (Then the rest will burn fiercely.)

If a pressurised H2 tank was fractured, the speed of the leak would lead to rapid mixing and dilution with air.

But H2 is lighter than air, and would disperse upwards, whereas petroleum vapour is heavier, and would accumulate at ground level, especially in any hollows. This would be a longer-term danger of future explosions.
 
Also, I hate this ref for a number or reasons, ask if unsure, but Clarkson (yes him of the pot belly and naff leather jacket)....PC and fuel conscious cars don't make a good (male) sound....sadly, it is true. I was invited, a few years back, to a 'gig' for future cars in London. While the design was very Jetsons and the economy and green figures very impressive, there was no ....er...balls.

Now, I'm a fairly forward looking person...science is good, economy is good, fuel efficiency is good etc............but, .......I know what the curly topped one means when he talks about 'a throaty roar' (paraphrase...am sure is pretty near the mark)..........Further, the nice, future loving part of me says....yes...very good, our children etc etc. But, the selfish, daredevil, drive to fast, slam the brakes, handbreak, wheelspin, Wahyay...did you see I got to 140mph part of me says..........fuck the future...where's the burn.

Thought: was it Robocop that had the line...I want a car with shitty mile to the gallon........or something of that ilk.

Hmmm.....a duck in a quandry.....
 
I know what you mean, in that BBC story about the hydrogen fuel cell bike that doesn't make noise people did not like the silence.

They wanted to add a speaker on the bike that emitted motorbike revving sounds etc.

Wonder if they could make it thrumm and vibrate?
 
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