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Solar Geoengineering (Tactics For Manipulating Solar Heating Of Earth)

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a reflective foil "sunshade' or parasol, in solar orbit a million miles sunward at the solar L1 point , would cast a much larger shadow on globally warmed earth. engineers calculate this can reverse the warming disaster. (see CBS news site, page for Jan. fifteen, 2001..COOLING THE PLANET).
we must talk this up- Kyoto is slow. Sunshade could be finished a year from now, and does not require compliance by thirty nations.
The sunshade is the only fast solution. it does not matter who wins the argument on the true cause. Sunshade cures ANY cause.
Incisive thinkers out there...it is up to you to drag the public away from the current solution discussion. Lives will be lost to heat stroke while the Kyoto debate drags on. (witness Bengal India)

John Newtol
More refs:
Journal of the British Interplanetary Society (JBIS), 44, 139-141 (1991).
H.S. Hudson, "A Space Parasol as a Countermeasure Against the Greenhouse Effect,"
Martyn Fogg's book 'Terraforming' discusses the concept in Chapter 4. Here's a 'Geoengineering' pdf
http://www.nap.edu/html/greenhouse/PostScript30.pdf
Thanks to Dr. Parkyn for these sources.
 
Somebody obviously hasn't thought this sunshade idea through. Like what will happen to plant-based life when their sunlight is cut down, for instance.
 
PLANTS WILL BURN IF NO SUNSHADE

thanks for the reply.
well, plants will scorch if there is no sunshade. remember, we are trying to return fm an abnormal excess. Hunger is a result of glo. warming, since scorched wheat affects even those who import food, even if their home isles are coolish yet. Canada is said to expect more warmth over the now permafrost areas, but those areas haven't the good soil, and will retain short days typical of northern lattitudes.
PS Sunshade will appear as a tiny dot on the sun's disk, one to two percent of the disk. Yet they calculate this is al that is needed to return our temp to normal. So no plants will have totally black days...far from it.

John Newtol
 
I'm not talking about black night - I'm talking about the total amount of sunshine. Plants get their energy from sunlight, so any percentage reduction in sunlight will produce reduced growth. Also, what about the reduction of sunlight on the oceans? Reducing the amount of light/heat reflected back into the atmosphere by water could have all sorts of consequences.
You're mixing up adverse weather effects from climactic warming with direct sunshine. Plants only 'scorch' in sunshine when there is insufficient water; heatstroke comes from too-high body temperature and not direct sunshine - you can suffer heatstroke in total darkness.
 
The effect would presumably be akin to a slight increase in cloudiness over the region between the tropics.

<Begin Wild Speculation>
I wonder if it could reverse the desertification that created places such as the Sahara, etc.? Perhaps there would be an overall *increase* in agricultural output?
<End Wild Speculation>
 
Seems to me that climate change goes in cycles, as we can't predict the weather for more than a day or two, who can predict the effects of meddling with the cycle. Any change over one portion of the earth can produce unpredictable results over even distant areas, so I'm not in favour of meddling with the balance until we really understand the dynamics of weather and climate change. Although, I do think we should stop pollution and deforestation as soon as possible!
 
Originally posted by Annasdottir ///////////
///////
thanks for reply...
i an amateur...so hope experts i quoting about plants scorching , are accurate. cant really debate this poing well.
wd say that shade loving plants can get too much light, so sun loving plants by analogy, shd also be able to get too much of a good thing.

IN GENERAL, we are addressing a departure fm the norm here. things have gotten abnormal, and sunshade wd merely RETURN THINGS TO NORMAL.

as to plants getting climmatic heat, not extra light...enough sunshade cutting of infrared wd cut atmospheric heat load on the wheat. even if heat fm volcanic magma and gas.

as to oeanic reflection...if we mess that up, sunshade has ability to be turned so blockage is less...we turn it as needed.
Close watching of all effects is the way to go.

BILLIONS WILL DIE IF WE DO NOTHING..WE HAVE SIX BILLION TOTAL, AND THE TROPICS CONTAIN AT LEAST TWO BILLION..ANY EXPERTS KNOW HOW MANY?....so action is called for...not "dont mess with complex systems"
John Newtol
 
FORTIS ANSWER

Fortis, loved your post.....thanks.
could you pls elaborate on the ways to water the Sahara, Gobi, Kahalari, and Australian deserts? Fascinating terraforming idea.
 
john186 said:
IN GENERAL, we are addressing a departure fm the norm here. things have gotten abnormal, and sunshade wd merely RETURN THINGS TO NORMAL.

John Newtol
Okay John, what evidence do you have that things have become abnormal? How do you know that the majority of Human History hasn't existed in a period of excessive chill and things are only now returning to their (much warmer) prehistoric tempuratures?

Could you also use more vowels and write in whole words please. I don't like having to guess what people are saying :) Oh and turn down the volume on your posts - you write like a poor conspiracy theorist.

Niles "Marvels At Humanity's Arrogance" Calder
 
Think we should be a bit more circumspect - isn't there a fair body of evidence that we're actually just getting back to the way our planet should be, i.e. still thawing out from the last ice-age?

Until we know what the actual datum is, we should be a little less hasty, IMHO. After all, we've survived this long without sticking giant parasols in orbit.
 
Niles answer

Hi, niles calder....are u the one who did some excellent sci for the public books in sixties? enjoyed them immensely.
as to boldface, just my personality. as to abbrev., cant type well due to ill defined causes...so i stuck with it. sorry, cut me some slack bloke.
LOL
as to rtn to normal temps, i merely mean rtn to normal for humanity's time. that helps our crops, et.
thanks for great books,
and do cut me some slack, eh?
John
 
PINKLEFISH ANSWER

Originally posted by Pinklefish
TO PINKLEFISH....ah, hope it works. heres hoping. great attitude, pinklefish.

but fear that it wont get third world factories to cut down, or motorists.

Like calls to donate to charities , to end all povety....helps, but has never been enough.
still, love your attitude.
"kindness is the measure of all",
John Newtol
 
Re: Nigel ans.

john186 said:
Hi, nigel....are u the one who did some excellent sci for the public books in sixties? enjoyed them immensely.
Nah, that's my Uncle. I'm Niles, he's Nigel :D

You might want to check out a 'recent' (5 years ago) publication of his The Manic Sun. Basicly he blames the Sun for Global Warming and says (recently to me) that with the end of the Sun's 11 year cycle we should see some cooling soon.

Some more informative links here.

as to boldface, just my personality. as to abbrev., cant type well due to ill defined causes...so i stuck with it. sorry, cut me some slack bloke.
Sure as a dyslexic myself my computer is stuffed full of spell checkers and electronic dictionaries.

as to rtn to normal temps, i merely mean rtn to normal for humanity's time. that helps our crops, et.
thanks for great books,
and do cut me some slack, eh?
John


No problem, but make a little effort to be more legible. :)

Niles "Not Nigel" Calder
 
END ALL HURRICANES?

Originally posted by john186 T'

It has been called to my attention that enough cooling of the waters in the tropics would end all hurricanes and typhoons...ps they are now intensifying because warming feeds them more energy.

you see, the cool waters of say feb., prevent them altogether. so, keep those waters that cool...or just as cool as in month of May...and no hurr.

caution ...a few hurrs DO happen in the cool months, but are very very rare.

What do my esteemed collegues hereupon think of the "no Hurricane" use of cooling the planet?
I am tossing this out for speculative comment...not saying I sure it is a good idea. Maybe yes, maybe no.
John Newtol
 
Kyoto too slow, may never be able to stop global warming. Orbital Sunshade could reverse warming and by cooling the planet, also end hurricanes, decrease insect borne diseases, increase world GDP by helping the tropical worker, and generally reduce human misery in the "hot countries."
If obstinate Bush in USA refuses to join in, just use british or french rockets to launch it. Much more useful result for space funds than the Int'l Space Station. Could be in place a year after funds available.

ORBITAL SUNSHADE CBS NEWS LINK
CBS News | Cooling The Planet | January 15, 2001_20:51:15 Address:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/15/archive/main264362.shtml

Regards,
John in USA
 
Sounds good to me - much more of this damn weather and I'm gonna need new ablative tiles fitting! :p
 
The Grandaddy Of The 'Star Wars' Defense Initiative

I thought, Edward Teller was dead, unfortunately not.

See he's still pedalling his crazy, 'super science' projects like some senile, evil, old 'Amazing Stories' fan boy. :(

Anything, to keep burning those fossil fuels it seems. :mad:
 
Get a link in early...

Someone's going to link this to Chemtrials (i.e. as the test beds for the sunscreen) if they haven't done this already.

BTW wasn't Teller behind idea of nuke-powered X-ray lasers, that were one of the ideas for the 'Star Wars' program when Ronald Regan first proposed it?
 
Re: Get a link in early...

Timble said:
BTW wasn't Teller behind idea of nuke-powered X-ray lasers, that were one of the ideas for the 'Star Wars' program when Ronald Regan first proposed it?
I believe he was. Certainly sounds like his style.

As long as the project was big and expensive enough. His project ideas read like something out of the wildest SF, from A.E. van Vogt, even back in the 1940's.
 
wouldn't there be a problem with space junk/asteroids hitting something that size though?
 
Sounds like scientist messing about with stuff they shouldnt.

"We don't know what the precise effects would be, whether the cure would be better or worse than the disease."
Steve Schneider of Stanford University
 
Don't worry -- a natural sun shade is on the way!

---------------------------------------------

Galactic dust storm enters Solar System


17:20 05 August 03

NewScientist.com news service

The Sun's shifting magnetic field is set to focus a decade-long storm of galactic dust grains towards the inner Solar System, including Earth.

The effect this will have on our planet - if any - is unknown. But some researchers have speculated that sustained periods of cosmic dust bombardment might be related to ice ages and even mass extinctions.

During the last decade, the magnetic field of the Sun acted like a shield, deflecting the electrically charged galactic dust away from the Solar System. However, the Sun's regular cycle of activity peaked in 2001.

As expected, its magnetic field then flipped over, so that south became north and vice-versa. In this configuration, rather than deflecting the galactic dust, the magnetic field should actually channel the dust inwards.

This pattern may have been repeated during previous solar cycles but it is only now that astronomers are beginning to have the data they need to prove it.
-------------------------------------------------------
Get the full story at:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994021

TVgeek
 
But this is what a sunshade and mirror would look like if you had one in the Earth /Moon system; the Moon shows the actual direction of sunlight, while the Earth is illuminated from above by the mirror.
Around the Earth and moon are additional power collection satellites.
 
I think the idea of blasting a chemically-inert powder of some kind into the upper atmosphere to block a small percentage of the sun's rays is a good, fairly low-tech idea. Seems much more sensible than 50,000 mirrors in orbit. The powder (not sure what you'd use) would all fall back to earth eventually anyway, giving room for experiment as to what was the right amount to use. No more blue skies for a while, but could be useful if things get much worse temperature-wise.

Bill Robinson
 
ANSWERS FROM JOHN

ONE..located a million miles sunward, no space junk. Meteors, yes...so rips would need to be fixed...an onsite robot with patches would do such.
TWO..viz Teller ...you can't sink a good idea just because of an evil sort talking about that idea. Hitler spoke of his great overflowing love for dogs, but that does not make it wrong to love dogs. THREE..large scale science is not all bad...ending smallpox was global project, millions of manhours. Do you wish it had not been done?
 
tv geek and dust cloud

that galactic dust cloud sounds promising. i expect it would add fuel to the sun, heating things up, but also act to shade us from the sun.
which effect would win out, is hard to say. We better develop escape vehicles to mars! He said , only half joking.
John
 
Big Bill Robins said:
I think the idea of blasting a chemically-inert powder of some kind into the upper atmosphere to block a small percentage of the sun's rays is a good, fairly low-tech idea. Seems much more sensible than 50,000 mirrors in orbit. The powder (not sure what you'd use) would all fall back to earth eventually anyway, giving room for experiment as to what was the right amount to use. No more blue skies for a while, but could be useful if things get much worse temperature-wise.

Bill Robinson

Or howzabout spraying it from high-flying 747 tankers? :devil:
 
This Global Warming Fix Stinks

By Elizabeth Svoboda| Also by this reporter
02:00 AM Aug, 21, 2006

In the infamous “Who Shot Mr. Burns?” episode of The Simpsons, Mr. Burns designs a giant sun-blocking disc to ensure the town's dependence on nuclear power. A Nobel laureate has proposed a similar strategy with a nobler purpose: stopping global warming.

Scientists agree that the planet is getting warmer because excess carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere acts like a pane of glass, trapping heat from solar radiation. Using less electricity and driving less are often recommended by climatologists to reduce carbon emissions.

But Paul Crutzen, a director at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany, has a very different idea: He recommends injecting massive amounts of sulfur into the upper atmosphere so less sun will penetrate it.

Stanford ecologist Ken Caldeira, who has investigated similar climate-modification strategies, thinks Crutzen's clout will drive this seemingly off-the-wall project forward. Efforts to manipulate the environment fall under a category known as geoengineering, which "lived in a shadowy netherworld, just beyond what was considered politically acceptable," Caldeira said. "Crutzen's paper is important because it shines a light on geoengineering, bringing it out of that netherworld."

Crutzen published his proposal in the August issue of Climatic Change. He won the 1995 Nobel prize in chemistry for his work on the ozone layer.

When sulfur particles are released into the Earth's atmosphere, they reflect solar radiation back into space much as large ice sheets in the Arctic do. Crutzen envisions lofting sulfur into the stratosphere on small balloon crafts, which will use artillery guns to release their smelly payload.

It's a response, Crutzen writes, to the failure of international political efforts to establish carbon emission limits. "The preferred way to resolve this dilemma is to lower the emissions of greenhouse gases," he said in the Climatic Change editorial. "However, so far, attempts in that direction have been grossly unsuccessful."

Crutzen's idea might sound surreal, but it was inspired by a natural event. When Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines erupted in 1991, it sprayed millions of tons of sulfur into the atmosphere. Much to scientists' surprise, the sulfur reflected so much sun that the Earth’s surface cooled by almost one full degree Fahrenheit in the year following the eruption.

Because sulfur can achieve such immediate cooling effects, some scientists think Crutzen's plan could lower global temperatures even as more carbon dioxide accumulates in the atmosphere.

"It's a short-term fix to a long-term problem," said Stephen Schwartz, an atmospheric scientist at Brookhaven National Laboratory. "Our entire energy economy is dependent on burning fossil fuel, and that's not going to stop anytime soon. We need a stopgap solution."

But Schwartz cautions that sulfur-spraying would not enable the international community to shelve measures like the Kyoto Protocol.

The sulfur solution would not be permanent, since the element lingers in the atmosphere for only a couple of years. Carbon dioxide, on the other hand, stays around for more than a century.

In addition, says John Latham, an atmospheric scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, the ecological domino effect of shooting sulfur into the stratosphere is unpredictable.

"Many species of plants, for instance, depend on specific amounts of sunlight to complete their normal growth cycles," he said. "If sulfur clouds blot this light out, even slightly, the ecosystems these plants belong to could be irrevocably altered."

Still, Latham believes the consequences of doing nothing could be grave. A few years ago, he proposed his own artificial global-warming fix: Spray droplets of ocean water into the air to encourage formation of clouds that would bounce solar rays back into space.

"Among the major oil-burning countries, there's very little sign that we're going to limit our consumption of fossil fuels," he said. "Because of that, it's good for our future that someone of Crutzen's distinction has come into the arena."


http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0, ... wn_index_1
 
First Geoengineering Field Trial Carried Out In Russia
http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... t-russia-0
Russian scientists blasted aerosol particles from a helicopter and car to see how much sunlight was reduced
By Jeremy Hsu Posted 12.14.2009 at 3:58 pm 6 Comments


Geoengineering Schemes B. Matthews

Earlier this year, Russian scientists carried out perhaps the first true geoengineering trial that could help combat rising global temperatures. But their efforts received little attention until a recent Mother Jones story by Chris Mooney, a science journalist who also blogs for Discover.

Scientists have long known that aerosols in the atmosphere can reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth, and so some geoengineering schemes had proposed cutting global temperatures by deploying aerosols. The Russian scientists put that plan into action by placing aerosol generators on a helicopter and a car chassis, so that they could spew sulfates at heights of up to 656 feet (200 meters) and see how much that cut back on sunlight.

The field test proved that the concept works, according to study results published in the journal Russian Meteorology and Hydrology in July. Lead scientist Yuri A. Israel, a top scientific advisor to Vladimir Putin, has also suggested ramping up the technological possibilities of aerosol-based engineering. Israel remains among the minority skeptical of human-caused global warming, but has embraced geoengineering.

This is a very different venture compared to cloud seeding efforts, such as Moscow's plans to divert heavy snowfall, or China's similar effort that dumped a crippling snowstorm on Beijing. Cloud seeding focuses on manipulating local weather and specifically causing rain or snow -- by contrast, the aerosol geoengineering has been considered for use on a global scale to reduce global temperatures.

As Mooney suggests, this may prompt other scientists and policymakers to really scrutinize geoengineering schemes and perhaps put restrictions on them. After all, the relative ease of carrying out such experiments means that anyone with enough money and know-how could carry them out.

[Mother Jones via The Intersection]
 
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