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The Wheel / Wheels: Invention; Early Usage(s)

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Mighty_Emperor

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Tue 15 Feb 2005

Many of the trappings of modern life owe their origins to ancient civilisations.
SUSAN MANSFIELD

... You might think that the things around you are quintessentially modern. But you’d be wrong. All of the components in this picture (well, ok, apart from the telly) were invented by ancient peoples who lived more than 1,000 years ago. The makers of What The Ancients Did For Us, which starts on BBC2 this week, believe we have the peoples of Mesopotamia, Central America, China, India, Arabia, Greece and Rome to thank for many life-changing discoveries, from rubber bands to central heating. ...

THE WHEEL
In keeping with the famous phrase, several cultures have reinvented the wheel. Although it is hailed as the greatest invention of all time, some societies were less than taken with it. Wheels were used in Ancient Egypt, but were abandoned for 1,500 years because wheeled vehicles were no match for camels in the desert. The Aztecs, Mayas and Incas had wheeled children’s toys, but anything larger was useless on their steep and rocky trails. The first to use them consistently were the Sumerians, around 3200BC. In China, however, the vehicle of choice was the wheelbarrow, considered so valuable tactically in the wars of the third century AD that code names were used for them in official reports. The availability of gunpowder gave rise to deadly wheelbarrow rocket squadrons, and "caravans" of wheelbarrows powered by sails were the most spectacular way of crossing the country’s vast plains.

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• What the Ancients Did For Us starts tomorrow night on BBC2. The book which accompanies the series, What The Past Did For Us, by Adam Hart-Davis is out now.
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Source
 
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I've heard that at the time of the first contact with South American civilisations that they had accomplished great civilisations without ever having invented the wheel.

Is this a fact of just some myth that I've picked up somewhere?

I was just watching a feature on Peruvian pyramids and they were all accessible by ramps. Why build ramps if you have no wheels?

If the next person comes on here and says "nah, they had wheels", then this will be a very short thread. :lol:
 
I think that's true, as far as I know the Mayans never invented the wheel. Or was it the Incas? Or both?
 
Neither the Aztecs, the Maya, nor the Incas are known to have developed or used wheels (for 'serious' workaday usage).

At least as far as the Maya were concerned, I recall reading a partial explanation that a lack of available draft animals contributed to a lack of motivation for wheeled carts, etc. To the extent it's a valid point, it would apply to the Aztecs as well.

The Incas had pack animals (llamas), but the mountainous terrain apparently negated the viability of wheeled carts, etc.
 
Wheels are not that useful if you live in a mountainous terrain. The ramps might be there just for the animals, they could probably walk along ramps easier than stairs.
 
Xanatico said:
Wheels are not that useful if you live in a mountainous terrain.
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It's not mountainous here in Cornwall, but it is very hilly in most places. As a result, pack animals were widely used. Even as the mining industry expanded, pack animals were still used to carry away the ore or the refined ingots, and bring in coal and timber.

But as the industry got even bigger, transport too became industrialised. At first they constucted tramways for wheeled carts, and cuttings and causeways were used to minimize the gradients. The carts were animal powered at first, but then steam-power came in, and eventually many of the tramways were converted to proper railways.

So it's possible that South American civilizations never actually reached some critical level of industrial activity to prompt them to change to using wheeled transport.

But if the nature of the terrain was really too extreme for this, it poses the question of why such allegedly advanced civilizations developed there at all, as in most of the rest of the world major civilizations tended to develop in fairly level areas, like river valleys.

Discuss! 8)
 
I have seen toys made by or for aztec children featuring wheels to make the toys move forward on the ground.

Found a link to some photos: Aztec wheeled toys
 
We seem to have established that the ancient South Americans did not develop/use the wheel other than as a novelty item in childrens toys, which is pretty much as I'd heard it.

So why all the ramped pyramids? I don't think these buildings were used as places that herds of beasts were driven up, and wouldn't any animals that they had be used to the mountainous environment and perfectly able to cope with steps anyway?

Ramps would seem to be an odd choice of access, needing more space and more materials to construct.
 
It's probably easier to have a procession up a ramp than up steps, and in sacred architecture cost and space usually aren't the big issue (frequently the bigger the better). There aren't a lot of pyramids anyway and not all of the great Meso- and South American civilizations built them.
 
Scunnerlugzz said:
We seem to have established that the ancient South Americans did not develop/use the wheel other than as a novelty item in childrens toys, which is pretty much as I'd heard it.

So why all the ramped pyramids? I don't think these buildings were used as places that herds of beasts were driven up, and wouldn't any animals that they had be used to the mountainous environment and perfectly able to cope with steps anyway?

Ramps would seem to be an odd choice of access, needing more space and more materials to construct.
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Just because there were no wheels, it doesn't mean that logs couldn't be used as rollers for moving heavy loads across a level surface. And in that case, it might make sense to have ramps for raising stones to the top of pyramids. That's only my two penn'orth, though...
 
True ... There's no reason to doubt the Mesoamerican civilizations employed log rollers. At least for the Maya, their tropical environs would have long since rotted away the evidence ...
 
schistdisk.jpg


"Mysterious Piece Of Sophisticated Technology Could Rewrite History – Scientists Are Not Sure What They Are Dealing With

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/myste...ure-what-they-are-dealing-with/#ixzz3xQX2xmPF

Researchers are still not sure what kind of extraordinary object they are dealing with…

This peculiar object created 5,000 years ago appears to be part of a component of an ancient unknown advanced mechanism.

In January 1936, a strange disk was unearthed at the plateau edge of North Saqqara, approximately 1.7 km north of Djoser’s Step Pyramid in Egypt

The discovery of the mysterious prehistoric artifact, that many considered as a device, was made in the so-called Mastaba of Sabu (Tomb 3111, c. 3100-3000 BC) by a famous, British Egyptologist Walter Bryan Emery (1902-1971).

Sabu was the son of Pharaoh Aneddzhiba (fifth ruler of the first dynasty of ancient Egypt) and a high official or administrator of a town or province possibly called “Star of the family of Horus”.

The burial chamber had no stairway and its superstructure was completely filled with sand and stone vessels, flint knives, arrows, few copper tools and the most interesting schist bowl in fragments.

The unearthed device named the Schist Disk, is approximately 61 cm in diameter (24 inches), one cm thick, and 10.6 cm (4.2 inches) in the center.

It was manufactured by unknown an means from this very fragile and delicate material requiring very tedious carving–the production of which would confound many craftsmen even today.

Now many important questions arise.

What was the original function of the device?

Scientists do not think the object is a wheel, because the wheel appeared in Egypt 1500 BC, during the 18th Dynasty.

If the Schist Disk is in fact a wheel it would mean ancient Egyptians possessed knowledge of the wheel about 3000 BC during the time of the first dynasty! This would require Egyptologists to re-write some history books.

If the Schist Disk is not a wheel, nor modeled after the wheel, what is it?

schistdisk2.jpg


Some scientists suggest that the fragile nature of such an intricately carved stone object greatly limits is practical usage and suggests a purely ornamental function, being of a religious or other such ritualistic purpose.

Of course, some believe that this subject served another purpose, just to be able to drive foot oil lamp.

However, critics of this theory argue that the three-blade ceremonial lamp hardly possible, because of the shape and curvature of its petals, which seems to suggest a function, not just decoration.

Did ancient Egyptians have technology far beyond the current?

There is one option that is even more challenging, namely that we are dealing with some kind of unknown advanced ancient technology. Is it possible ancient Egyptians had technology far beyond the current?

sabu01.jpg


Egyptologist Cyril Aldred reached the conclusion that, independently of what the object was used for or what it represented, its design was without a doubt, a copy of a previous, much older metallic object.

Why did the ancient Egyptians bother to design an object with such a complex structure more than 5,000 years ago?

sabu03.jpg


How could a culture who typically used chisels to shape rock have mastered a technique to work such a delicate material to this extraordinary level?

Why would ancient Egyptians invest the time and skills needed to create this object unless it served a very important, specific purpose?"

Further information"
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/06/the-schist-disc-a-sceptic-speaks/

Not apparently listed by / debunked by...
http://www.badarchaeology.com
 
I have seen videos of this on Youtube.
It's all very mysterious.

My guess is that it's part of a water-driven clock mechanism (perhaps experimental).
Quite why it was hand-carved from schist is anybody's guess. It's not the ideal material for carving (unless it's like slate, which would give a fine-grained surface).
I'm thinking it's the master carving for something that would later be cast in bronze.
 
As Göbekli Tepe gradually reveals its wondrous secrets, I still find it hard to believe that, at around 10,000 BC, this incredible temple complex supposedly predates the invention of the wheel by some 7,000 years.

Are we really supposed to believe that the construction workers didn't have access to basic carts or even some sort of rudimentary wheelbarrow at the building site?
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
As Göbekli Tepe gradually reveals its wondrous secrets, I still find it hard to believe that, at around 10,000 BC, this incredible temple complex supposedly predates the invention of the wheel by some 7,000 years.

Are we really supposed to believe that the construction workers didn't have access to basic carts or even some sort of rudimentary wheelbarrow at the building site?
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Hancock says they had JCBs.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
As Göbekli Tepe gradually reveals its wondrous secrets, I still find it hard to believe that, at around 10,000 BC, this incredible temple complex supposedly predates the invention of the wheel by some 7,000 years.

Are we really supposed to believe that the construction workers didn't have access to basic carts or even some sort of rudimentary wheelbarrow at the building site?
Click to expand...

If they used simple, wooden discs or just logs, they would have long rotted away without leaving any evidence.
 
Kingsize Wombat said:
If they used simple, wooden discs or just logs, they would have long rotted away without leaving any evidence.
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I appreciate that. The oldest known wheel in existence is a solid wooden cart or chariot wheel from Slovenia (Vinca culture?) around 5,000 years old. My point was that, in all probability, the builders of such an extensive and sophisticated structure as Gõbekli Tepe, must have employed the wheel in some capacity.
Some of the Vinca tablets are circular and date to approx 7,000 years ago. That is a couple of thousand years before the officially accepted invention of the wheel. You can't tell me though that some ancient Vinca scribe didn't think "hey, this thing rolls really well! Wonder what else we could do with a shape like this?". Circular motifs also feature on cave art going back 10s of thousands of years.
I suspect wheels existed far earlier than the officially accepted timeline, but the odds of finding solid evidence that old are pretty slim.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
As Göbekli Tepe gradually reveals its wondrous secrets, I still find it hard to believe that, at around 10,000 BC, this incredible temple complex supposedly predates the invention of the wheel by some 7,000 years.

Are we really supposed to believe that the construction workers didn't have access to basic carts or even some sort of rudimentary wheelbarrow at the building site?
Click to expand...
or a sled type contraption?
 
Ladyloafer said:
or a sled type contraption?
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Obviously a possibility.
The mysterious 'cart ruts' in Malta, which I had the pleasure of exploring a couple of years ago, are thought to be the result of sled-runners scraping grooves in the sandstone, rather than cart-wheels.

PSX_20190417_090829.jpg
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
The mysterious 'cart ruts' in Malta, which I had the pleasure of exploring a couple of years ago, are thought to be the result of sled-runners scraping grooves in the sandstone, rather than cart-wheels.
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nodding - they can be distinguished archaeologically.
 
wheels rotate - the same surface irregularities happen in a repeat pattern. Runners slide - the pattern doesn't repeat in the same way.
 
sorry, posted to soon and it looks rather brusque! not intended that way lololololol

Also, there is always some play in a wheel/axle set up and so they can move forward on slightly different routes. Obviously within limits. By contrast, the runners tend to go over the same ground much more exactly.

This isn't an especially good picture but here is some "wheel" wear from Housteads Roman Fort. Different shape to the one considered to be archetypal "runner" wear :)
 
Frideswide said:
wheels rotate - the same surface irregularities happen in a repeat pattern. Runners slide - the pattern doesn't repeat in the same way.
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Ah, obvious when you explain it. Not hard to cut such groves I'd have thought, grease and sand as a grinding agent. I wonder why this was preferred to wheeled transport? One envisages a kind of towing operation with a windlass.
 
Coal said:
I wonder why this was preferred to wheeled transport?
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no ideas :( I suppose... maybe... if the system works then don't fix it? inertia in other words. Restrictive practices by the sled makers? :)

wheels aren't obvious either. You get fixed and moving axles, and have to find something (usually metal) to seat and protect the moving parts.... so maybe it was just a big faff?
 
Frideswide said:
wheels rotate - the same surface irregularities happen in a repeat pattern. Runners slide - the pattern doesn't repeat in the same way.
Click to expand...

But, unless the same wheel, with the same irregularities, started the same journey from the same spot every time, the grooves would still wear down in a fairly consistent manner along their entire length.
We know the "chariot grooves" at Pompeii were worn down by wheeled transport but they still bear something of a resemblance (albeit nowhere near as old) to the grooves across Malta.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
But, unless the same wheel, with the same irregularities, started the same journey from the same spot every time, the grooves would still wear down in a fairly consistent manner along their entire length.
Click to expand...

heuristic rather than 100% :)
 
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