Speaking In Tongues

[escargot]

Lemonpie must have been channeling my spirit guide.

I stand by my b*ll*cks.

 

[lemonpie3]

Would it be too much stating the obvious to say it was weird?

It wasn't the happiest clappiest church ever in the world but it was pretty evangelical. I went along at my friend's invitation, having pretty much dropped the christianity thing about a year before, and i had never seen this speaking in tongues thing or people falling down before. I can't remember what the preacher was preaching about but I was fairly sceptical; what I mean is I was really going along because of having been invited by this friend and not out of any religious feeling, or to listen to the sermon or anything.

I started to feel more and more upset as people around were starting to do stuff, sway and talk in tongues and things. I was weirded out really. And suddenly I started crying! In public! Totally weird because I don't, generally. Especially about nothing.

And then, it was as if words were trying to come out of my mouth - my tongue started moving even though my mouth was shut. This lady that I was next to turned to me and told me to let go, or go with it or something. And suddenly, I'm babbling! My mouth is just going off!

Babbling is probably the wrong word for it, because it wasn't like a baby's babble, just syllables, it felt more like phrases, but not sentences. Patterns of syllables would be repeated, there were short patterns and longer patterns; but because I couldn't recognise any of it, I wasn't thinking 'I've said this before' or anything.

Anyway I should probably mention that I speak a couple of languages and these sounds were completely alien to me, and the mouth shapes to make these sounds were completely alien too. It was as if my mouth was on autopilot. My mind was going 'oh my god what is going on?' but my mouth was just making all these sounds! Not knowing any semitic languages, it sounded like one of those, arabic or something. But that's maybe because I couldn't tell you what a semitic language really sounds like.

The phenomenon went on for a couple of days as well - I could only stop it by really making an effort, clamping my mouth shut - my tongue would still carry on though! I'd be walking down the street with my mouth going at 90 miles per hour! It was actaully embarrassing. Fortunately it was cold, so I could wear a scarf over my mouth without looking like a bank robber.

I think I should also add that although I couldn't believe what was going on, it was quite cool and I liked it! So I didn't really want to stop. But even though it started off in this church situation there was no religious experience tied up with it for me. Like I said, I wasn't really into Christianity before then and wasn't after.

 

[Anonymous]

Lemonpie: ' .. was pretty cool and I liked it and didn't really want to stop ..'

Weird and funny ! Maybe you should start off a cult of your own, Lemonpie, where people whoop around, gibbering bollocks and laughing their heads off ? It's just what the world needs. Religion could do with a humour-injection.

My young niece and her svengali-type husband were 'born again', then afterwards joined the Pentacostals. Everything they did was attacked with solemn enthusiasm and they dragged me along to one of the Pentacostal services. Suggested to me as we entered that I might want to just let-myself-go if I even slightly felt like it. Before long the bollocky gibberish took hold. I've never felt so out of place. Plump tight-perm ladies with loads of false pearls and Avon perfume were going off their heads along with their brylcreamed ageing husbands. It was surreal. These were the same pursed-mouth people one usually saw making deadly serious decisions about frozen-pea brands in the supermarket. Niece kept looking around at me with an encouraging smile; 'Why don't you have a try, Aunty? Just let-yourself-go ...'. Not likely. And I didn't like watching those around me doing it either; it was worse than watching a mass orgy in an old people's home. I didn't care if I seemed a spoilsport; the whole thing seemed vaguely unhealthy to me and I was very happy not to be 'taken' by the urge join in.

Little niece's husband started studying theology after that, but quit after a few years, just as he'd quit playing in a band when it finally dawned on him that banging drums wasn't the way to swift fame and riches. After that they jumped enthusiastically on the Amway bandwaggon. Their gushing descriptions of Amway seminars and meetings sounded similar to their Pentacostal involvement. Oh well, suppose it keeps them off the streets.

 

[lemonpie3]

You are all invited to join the cult of Lemonpie.

1. True disciples will disdain the sandwich, for it is ABHORRENT and AGAINST the teachings of the faith.

2. Fellows in the faith will jig about laughing and whooping and making funny noices (but not with their bottoms) every Sunday morning. This act of worship and fellowship will be the mark of a true devotee.

Lemons, join me! I shall make of you a great PIE!

 

[Anonymous]

Now I'm waiting to see the splinter-group, called the Neenish Tarts (yum !)

 

[monster_magnet]

Splitters!!!

Fear not, oppressed fruits of the Cult of Lemonpie.

Sing with me now in celebrating JIFOVA, he who is Citris. Break from the rotting prison that is the Cult of Lemonpie, join me in:

THE CHURCH of LEMON FLAN

With no pie-crust stopping the connection with JIFOVA, your scenty pith will rise without hurdle.

Your fresh aroma is free to perfume the lowest hovels and highest palaces. Join The Church of Lemon Flan today - a direct connection to JIFOVA.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh ..... very good ! Yae -- you are truly inspired !

 

[brianellwood]

(but not with their bottoms) every Sunday morning

Ah! Ms.Pie. I'd prefer to make sacred music with my bot ( and I don't think even the King of Petomaine did that on Sundays) rather than issue forth with Ms.Snail's oft repeated exhortation in a foreign tongue. And after a Saturday night in our local hostelry drinking a strong draught to great excess that's quite likely to happen.
As for not making fame and riches swiftly from banging the skins, well I've done all right over the years.... "what's that you said? Can you speak up a bit? Eh?"

 

[Mythopoeika]

As for not making fame and riches swiftly from banging the skins, well I've done all right over the years.... "what's that you said? Can you speak up a bit? Eh?"

Well, we won't ask whose skins you've banged for money, Brian!



I'll get me coat.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Lemonpie - I preferred your previous avatar. Where's it from, by the way?

 

[hedgewizard1]

Finehair, if it were my little niece, I think I'd prefer her selling crack to selling Amway.

 

[lemonpie3]

Thanks Mythopoeika, this is Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke. The last one was from a secret stash of very secret things (I can't, um, remember)

 

[Anonymous]

Finehair, if it were my little niece, I think I'd prefer her selling crack to selling Amway.

I thought that might be a bit of an exaggeration, so I googled some info.

http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/amstory2.html

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcece ... s/a/amway/

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia. ... Amway.html

http://www.cocs.com/jhoagland/webhq.html

Lummy! :eek!!!!:


edited by TheQuixote- fixing links

 

[OneWingedBird]

That sounds cool Lemonpie, I could never get it to work for me even when I was a rampant believer

I think the idea with a lot of the hypnotic stuff in evangelical churches is that it plays on the notion that you want it to happen, even if you're telling yourself that you don't for whatever reason.

I got a few similar suggestions myself while people were trying to psych me up for the 'toronto blessing', things like "Don't try to think, you can't reason Jesus".

The first time I got really 'zapped' I wasn't going to go up to the front for ministry 'cos I was too weirded out by it, then the pastor announced over the PA that anyone who felt the palms of their hands prickling was being called by god to come up, and then the palms of my hands reallt started prickling

A cheap hypnotic trick, I know, but rather effective under the circumstances.

 

[Mythopoeika]

That sounds cool Lemonpie, I could never get it to work for me even when I was a rampant believer

I think the idea with a lot of the hypnotic stuff in evangelical churches is that it plays on the notion that you want it to happen, even if you're telling yourself that you don't for whatever reason.

I got a few similar suggestions myself while people were trying to psych me up for the 'toronto blessing', things like "Don't try to think, you can't reason Jesus".

The first time I got really 'zapped' I wasn't going to go up to the front for ministry 'cos I was too weirded out by it, then the pastor announced over the PA that anyone who felt the palms of their hands prickling was being called by god to come up, and then the palms of my hands reallt started prickling

A cheap hypnotic trick, I know, but rather effective under the circumstances.

Yes, that's exactly what stage hypnotists do to select their victims. Aaah, the power of suggestion.

 

[indigochild]

I can do gibberish, quite easily. I can put lotsa emotion behind it, so that it sounds like I really 'mean' something...Apparently this is a useless talent shared by a fairly small percentage of humanity.
Well, useless unless you use it to hoodwink a larger, more gullible percentage!
Honestly, why do folks think gibberish has to be deeply meaningful just 'cause they can't understand it?(this is also an issue I have with some forms of 'art')

(--Does it show that I don't buy speaking in tongues?):blah:

Also helps around the Eiffel Tower when persistent oiks try to sell you mini Eiffel Towers and bird whistles

 

[Kathy_Pike]

I remember when there was the big Toronto Blessing craze back in the mid-nineties. I never saw it, as it never arrived at my church, but a significant proportion of the congregation regularly went to another local church where you could be guaranteed a show. The descriptions I heard, of people writhing around on the floor, barking like dogs and babbling incohererently, sounded (a) quite frightening (I was only fourteen), and (b) more like a description of demonic possession than of the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. I decided (in my teenage know-it-all phase) that it was probably mass hysteria and auto-suggestion.

I seem to recall (and I'm afraid I don't have time to check out any of my sources at the moment) that there's a bit of controversy over the whole "speaking in tongues" phenomenon. The old King James version used to use the phrase "speaking in tongues" to mean "speaking in other tongues" - speaking a foreign language. When the NIV and other versions of the Bible were brought out, the archaic phrase was tranlated as "speaking other languages", as this was felt to be a truer translation of the original Greek. However, a strong lobby from the Pentecostals persuaded many versions to keep the phrase "speaking in tongues" for the passage in Acts - even though the Greek phrase had been translated as "other languages" everwhere else.

 

[OneWingedBird]

Chockful - I found the article, it's in Headpress #19, unfortunately I can't get a decent page scan of it, the small type becomes illegible.

No idea if chockful is still around as a shapeshifter or has left us, but i was having a scanfest this week and managed to sort the article out.

Evangelical Mind Control and the Abuse of Altered States:

Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

It's about 8 years since i wrote this, i'd run it now with the caveats that i was prob. a little too close in to the whole thing then, put a bit more of a sensationalist spin on it than i'd have opted for generally to appeal to this particular journal, andi'd also that the strange picture that recurs through the article was headpress's whimsical little addition.

Edit: is that working? for some reason, it doesn't seem to open full size in my browser...

 

[panzerschlep]

This is my first post here on the FT boards but this subject hits kind of close to home for me. My whole family on my mother's side are born again christians and all speak in tongues at services. It also seriously freaked me out as a kid and I always had a certain amount of guilt that "The Spirit wasn't touching me". I had read somewhere that there is a religous ecstasy area of the brain that gets tickled and that's why this occurs. The whole hypnotism angle is quite enlightining so thanks for the info. BTW I am in no way invloved with the Christian church at this point in my life and have always wondered if the weirdness going on at church while I was growing up turned me off to organized religion so completely.

 

[Leaferne]

Hi panzerschlep, and welcome. :hello: Yes, I can see why that would turn you off, being subjected to something and feeling like you couldn't participate fully in it, for whatever reason. If you'd like to share your experiences (or not--no pressure!) that'd be great.

 

[RealPaZZa]

What do people think of speaking in tongues (aka glossolalia)?
Have you witnessed it happening, and did you think it was fake or genuine?

Myself, I once went to my mum's church (evangelistic baptist) some years ago - although I'm an atheist, my mum dragged me along because she wanted me to meet some people.
During prayer, one of the congregation started humming and started speaking in gibberish.
A few minutes later, another man stood up and said that God had told him to translate. He then reeled off the usual message about peace and love among all humankind etc. Nothing new or revelatory.

I've known these people for a long time - so I noticed immediately that both of these people were church elders.
Unfortunately, politeness prevented me from standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'.
I told my mum afterwords what I thought of it - a little 'play acting' to con the faithful - but my poor old mother was having none of it! She's blinded by faith and completely sucked in by the whole thing.

christians lying? it cant be? youll be telling me theres paedophile priests next!

 

[escargot]

Unfortunately, politeness prevented me from standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'.

This happens a lot - the politeness, I mean. :lol:

I reckon there should be more of this standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'

Last year I went to a 'psychic event' (too risible to go into here :lol: ) and was sooo tempted to do just that.

I didn't, because it just seemed so, well, rude. Instead, my sister and I tried to hide our giggles as we were told about the spectral Alsatian sitting beside us, and the old lady standing beside my sister's shoulder, holding a red rose and wearing a white blouse... :lol:

 

[Mythopoeika]

What do people think of speaking in tongues (aka glossolalia)?
Have you witnessed it happening, and did you think it was fake or genuine?

Myself, I once went to my mum's church (evangelistic baptist) some years ago - although I'm an atheist, my mum dragged me along because she wanted me to meet some people.
During prayer, one of the congregation started humming and started speaking in gibberish.
A few minutes later, another man stood up and said that God had told him to translate. He then reeled off the usual message about peace and love among all humankind etc. Nothing new or revelatory.

I've known these people for a long time - so I noticed immediately that both of these people were church elders.
Unfortunately, politeness prevented me from standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'.
I told my mum afterwords what I thought of it - a little 'play acting' to con the faithful - but my poor old mother was having none of it! She's blinded by faith and completely sucked in by the whole thing.

christians lying? it cant be? youll be telling me theres paedophile priests next!

Well, there's a good tradition of Christians lying, starting with Peter and Judas...

 

[Mythopoeika]

Unfortunately, politeness prevented me from standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'.

This happens a lot - the politeness, I mean. :lol:

I reckon there should be more of this standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'

Dammit, Escargot, we should form a 'hit squad' - travelling round the country exposing the frauds!

 

[RainyOcean]

Unfortunately, politeness prevented me from standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'.

This happens a lot - the politeness, I mean. :lol:

I reckon there should be more of this standing up and shouting 'it's a big fake!'

Last year I went to a 'psychic event' (too risible to go into here :lol: ) and was sooo tempted to do just that.

I didn't, because it just seemed so, well, rude. Instead, my sister and I tried to hide our giggles as we were told about the spectral Alsatian sitting beside us, and the old lady standing beside my sister's shoulder, holding a red rose and wearing a white blouse... :lol:

haha, same here. :lol: Only I was trying not to make sarcastic remarks while she claimed to be in contact with a witch from the Salem Witch Trials and supported it with facts that she could have gotten from a detailed book.

 

[ramonmercado]

Language Center Of The Brain Is Not Under The Control Of Subjects Who "Speak In Tongues"
Main Category: Psychology / Psychiatry News
Article Date: 03 Nov 2006 - 6:00am (PST)

Glossolalia, otherwise referred to as "speaking in tongues," has been around for thousands of years, and references to it can be found in the Old and New Testament. Speaking in tongues is an unusual mental state associated with specific religious traditions. The individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language, yet perceives it to have great personal meaning. Now, in a first of its kind study, scientists are shining the light on this mysterious practice -- attempting to explain what actually happens physiologically to the brain of someone while speaking in tongues.

Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine have discovered decreased activity in the frontal lobes, an area of the brain associated with being in control of one's self. This pioneering study, involving functional imaging of the brain while subjects were speaking in tongues, is in the November issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, the official publication of the International Society for Neuroimaging in Psychiatry.

Radiology investigators observed increased or decreased brain activity - by measuring regional cerebral blood flow with SPECT (Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography) imaging - while the subjects were speaking in tongues. They then compared the imaging to what happened to the brain while the subjects sang gospel music.

"We noticed a number of changes that occurred functionally in the brain," comments Principal Investigator Andrew Newberg, MD, Associate Professor of Radiology, Psychiatry, and Religious Studies, and Director for the Center for Spirituality and the Mind, at Penn. "Our finding of decreased activity in the frontal lobes during the practice of speaking in tongues is fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of God is moving through them and controlling them to speak. Our brain imaging research shows us that these subjects are not in control of the usual language centers during this activity, which is consistent with their description of a lack of intentional control while speaking in tongues."

Newberg went on to explain, "These findings could be interpreted as the subject's sense of self being taken over by something else. We, scientifically, assume it's being taken over by another part of the brain, but we couldn't see, in this imaging study, where this took place. We believe this is the first scientific imaging study evaluating changes in cerebral activity -- looking at what actually happens to the brain -- when someone is speaking in tongues. This study also showed a number of other changes in the brain, including those areas involved in emotions and establishing our sense of self."

Newberg concludes that the changes in the brain during speaking in tongues reflect a complex pattern of brain activity. Newberg suggests that since this is the first study to explore this, future studies will be needed to confirm these findings in an attempt to demystify this fascinating religious phenomenon.

###

This preliminary study, done only at Penn, examined five subjects in a laboratory setting. The study, set for publication in the November issue of Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging, can now be accessed on-line at www.sciencedirect.com http://www.sciencedirect.com/. The article is titled, "The Measurement of Regional Cerebral Blood Flow During Glossolalia: a Preliminary SPECT Study." Co-authors include: Nancy Wintering, Donna Morgan, and Mark Waldman.

Suggested caption: "From a new brain imaging study at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, SPECT scans were taken of subjects while worshiping versus speaking in tongues. The speaking in tongue images primarily show a decrease of brain activity in the frontal lobes, which is what normally makes us feel as if we're in control. There was also a decrease in activity in the left basal ganglia, which is involved with focusing attention and emotional responses. Finally, the thalamus activity increased during speaking in tongues which supports it is an active state of the brain."

Dr. Newberg is the director of the new Center for Spirituality and the Mind at PENN. To learn more, go on-line to: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/radiology/CSM/index.html. Through the collaboration of distinguished scholars from the University of Pennsylvania, the interdisciplinary group works to promote future research and scholarly dialogue on the mind, religion and ethics.

PENN Medicine is a $2.9 billion enterprise dedicated to the related missions of medical education, biomedical research, and high-quality patient care. PENN Medicine consists of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine (founded in 1765 as the nation's first medical school) and the University of Pennsylvania Health System.

Penn's School of Medicine is ranked #2 in the nation for receipt of NIH research funds; and ranked #3 in the nation in U.S. News & World Report's most recent ranking of top research-oriented medical schools. Supporting 1,400 fulltime faculty and 700 students, the School of Medicine is recognized worldwide for its superior education and training of the next generation of physician-scientists and leaders of academic medicine.

The University of Pennsylvania Health System includes three hospitals, all of which have received numerous national patient-care honors [Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania; Pennsylvania Hospital, the nation's first hospital; and Penn Presbyterian Medical Center]; a faculty practice plan; a primary-care provider network.

Contact: Susanne Hartman
University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... wsid=55485

 

[DieDieMyDarling]

Hey all,

I was a born again Christian for about 6 years, and as a part of that i believed in the whole shebang, speaking in tongues, healing by the laying on of hands, etc.

I'm sure there are some cons going on, well i KNOW there are, especially in the US where there's a lot of money to be made in revival tents etc, but in my own personal experience i think it's more about people just letting go, and expressing themselves through an unknown language.
I always thought of it as my 'spirit' talking, praying and doing the bidding of god, without me actually having to know what it meant.

It's not much different from the tribes that get stoned and dance with eyes rolling around in their heads, claiming they turned into an eagle and saw the future, or things like closing your eyes with a pen and piece of paper, then scribbling to see what you can come up with.

As I say, of course there are con artists out there, but i think in most cases it's just a bunch of people who believe something, and when they let go and express themselves it feels right to them, the rest being a bit of 'religious ecstacy' as mentioned above, taken from the fact that you think you're closer to god.

I'm now agnostic, but i have to admit, i wouldn't half mind being able to believe again, i've had some bloody fantastic times since being a Christian, but nothing comes close to the joy and contentment i had when i believed, probably because it's so personal and internal.

 

[Marsha Klein]

My next door neighbour belongs to some happy clappy church or other and she regularly speaks in tongues. That is to say she'll start muttering gibberish and calls it "speaking in tongues". Actually that sounds a bit harsh because I've no doubt she genuinely believes what she's doing.

The other night I heard her shouting in tongues. Turned out she had found an enormous spider in her living room and was using this "gift" to rid herself of it. Personally I always find twatting them with my shoe to be more effective but then again I've never considered what the arachnid's spritual beliefs might be. She's used the same method to rid herself of the Mormons and JWs and swears it works.

I once went along to her church and witnessed the whole collapsing with the holy spirit and glossolalia schtick. Personaly I felt the whole thing smacked of group hysteria. It was almost as if they had licence to behave in an unrestrained way where they wouldn't be judged hence the hysterical laughter, crying, collapsing etc. Hey, if it makes them feel better who is anyone to judge? All I know is that I felt zilch and I'm usually quite attuned to atmospheres. Perhaps Jesus just doesn't want me for a sunbeam. :hmm:

 

[McAvennie]

At school once in the mid-90s one of the other classes in my year told of our RE teacher 'speaking in tongues' during a lesson. We would have been 13-14 I'd think.

I was excited to see this in our lesson but it never happened. It was the first I had heard of the phenomenon and I can't remember if I thought it was BS or was in awe.

Being older and dismissive of the phenomenon as fakery I now look back on that as a very irresponsible act by said teacher, and coupled with another instance where he chased a pupil across the games field before kicking him - admittedly he was an unruly twat - it does make one wonder how suitable he was to be a teacher.

Anyhow, the best tongue-speakers are the cats. This is my favourite...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tRWRSfc ... re=related

 

[colpepper1]

Given sufficient quantities of real ale I can do every language in Babel. A towering performance. People buy me a drink to stop.