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Spielberg's War Of The Worlds

I can sometimes understand when they make a movie based on a book, but RE-making a movie based on a book... Ugh. I'm not much of a movie buff at all, but I am tired of seeing the same old thing.

And it WOULD be quite interesting, actually, if it was actually going along with the book (as some people have pointed out). But no, it's taking place in modern-day America, so it's probably just going to be another "humans versus evil aliens" flick that we've all seen several times over.

I could be wrong, and it might be a decent movie... I just have absolutely no ambition to see it. It just doesn't look good. I'm sick of seing the same old tired plots and characters over and over with no deviation from the formula.

Sorry for the rant.

I recall hearing once that Spielberg claimed that he'd never make a movie with hostile aliens. What happened...? :?
 
It's Hollywood's current obsession with "re-making" classic films. They can't be arsed to take up aspiring writers with fresh ideas so they dust off an oldie, overdo the special effects, shove in a big name star and wait for the cash registers to start ringing.
It'll be The Forbidden Planet next, mark my words!
:furious:
 
Stormkhan said:
It'll be The Forbidden Planet next, mark my words!
:furious:

No please no!!! It's perfect, leave it alone Hollywood!
 
I think, in terms of adaptations, there is room for new interpretations. I don't believe that the new War of the Worlds is really a remake of the 50s version, but a new version of the book.

Doesn't mean it will be any good, but it does have a right to exist, and not be constantly compared to the earlier version.

On the other hand, the remake of Planet of the Apes was a remake of a film based on a book, and so probably wasn't worth the effort. Still, I suppose you could argue that reimagining someone else's interpretation of a third person's work is valid.
 
But what if any of the adaptations bear no resemblance to the book anyhow. Thus the new WotW might not be a remake of the 50's film but neither is it a 're-imagining' of the novel: it's just a film using the title to a well-known book/film.
So ... you have a film which might be dross but called "War of the Worlds" to give it some sort of authority or gloss. Why not keep the film and think of an original title?
 
No please no!!! It's perfect, leave it alone Hollywood!

Ditto. They'd try it too if this trend doesn't stop soon. Probably with Leslie Neilson back in a cameo role...
 
But Leslie Nielsen only does comedy, these days...

Stormkhan: You're right, of course. I do think, however, that many of these people think they're re-imagining the original, even if they aren't really.

That's because many of them are idiots.
 
SPOILERS AHOY

managed to get down to the local myvue this afternoon to see an advance screening of it, surprisingly good, better than I was hoping for: 7/10 imho. I missed the very start, just got in as Cruise and his ex-wife and kids were having a bit of an argument outside Cruise's house.

The aliens are seriously cool, the scenes where they first pop up from the ground and trash the city is brilliant, I liked the way the roads and buildings broke up just before the aliens appeared, as well as the ones with the ferry over the hudson, there was a really good shot of the ferry and the town with the aliens stood over the trees on the hill behind. The way the aliens themselves come to earth is slightly different from the HG Wells story, but it helps to avoid the "why not nuke them while the cyclinder cools" question that sticking to the original story would've posed.

Tom Cruise isn't that bad, although his embarrasing dad routine is straight on the mark, and annoyingly embarrasing. The kids aren't as irritating as expected.

No Thunderchild style boat foolery though, which I was disappointed with, and the bit in the cellar that takes up a lot of the second half does drag somewhat (especially the scene with the aliens and alien probe exploring the cellar.

I was also less than convinced by a jumbo jet falling on the neighbourhood of Cruise's ex-wife part. It manages to trash the house they're in and the surrounding ones, but leave the car they parked outside unharmed (no windows broken). The TV crew that show up in this scene are also written in to move the story on, and nothing else, I was expecting that they'd all go off with them, until seeing this indestructable van.

The ending feels rushed, one minute they defeat an alien about to eat them (I was undecided at this point whether it was already dying, or just moving conveniantly slow to not kill Cruise and his daughter), the next they're walking into Boston and the aliens and their rubbish plants are dead/dying. They never did explain what happened to Cruise's son between after he disappeared in the fight, and the end. I preferred the ending in the 50's movie, which is on TV this saturday.

still, really good 8)
 
Jonathon Ross was on one of these panel shows on Radio 4 and he said you have to see it is only for the sight of Tom Cruise disappearing up what looks like a giant Alsatian's penis.

I think that might put me off to be honest (not just going to see the film but sleeping and taking strong hallucinogenic drugs).
 
Emperor said:
Jonathon Ross was on one of these panel shows on Radio 4 and he said you have to see it is only for the sight of Tom Cruise disappearing up what looks like a giant Alsatian's penis.

I think that might put me off to be honest (not just going to see the film but sleeping and taking strong hallucinogenic drugs).

nah, don't worry about that bit, the worst bit is when he reappears again ;)

couldn't resist, sorry :D
 
jima: Good point ;)

---------------------
A review (interestingly on Newnight they touched on most of these points):

War of the Worlds

** Cert 12A

Peter Bradshaw
Friday July 1, 2005
The Guardian


If you're making a movie about aliens who've insinuated their way on to planet Earth there's one person you've obviously got to cast: scary blonde robo-moppet Dakota Fanning. At just 11 years old, Hollywood's supreme child actor looks like the love child of Shirley Temple and Chucky. Sadly, however, Dakota here only plays a human: the screaming daughter of Tom Cruise, being carried with her punky older brother to safety, away from vast alien tripod-monsters who are marauding across a scorched landscape of wrecked cars and crashed planes.

But when the time comes to reveal the sinister extra-terrestrial intelligence directing these engines of death, perhaps we could hope for a glint in Dakota's preternaturally clear eyes. No. Director Steven Spielberg is content to make her his all-American kid-heroine. I remember an interview he gave around the time of ET; questioned about Drew Barrymore's easy charm, he said, "If you over-rehearse kids you risk a bad case of the cutes." But Dakota is an evolutionary leap forward from Drew. There's no question of over-rehearsing her. She is beyond cute, and makes a disconcerting double act with Cruise: eerily calm, even when she's screaming, in contrast to Tom's earnestly pumped-up high-energy performance.

Spielberg's version of the classic HG Wells novel is based squarely around the pre-tech motif of those clanking metal tripods. They have apparently been buried under the ground long, long ago by aliens who now resurrect them with a lightning storm, sending their pilots down inside blinding bolts of electricity - a process conveniently explained to the pop-eyed Tom by a TV news reporter, using a slo-mo video monitor. Why oh why could they not have just taken possession of planet Earth in the first place, and saved us all a lot of grief and indeed embarrassment? Maybe the sadistic critters just wanted to see us suffer.

Spielberg boils up a lot of classic elements from classic films: many of them his own. There's a dab of ET in the way his extra-terrestrials try fooling around with a bicycle and nervously recoil when it falls over. There's a hint of Alien, a bit of King Kong, a smidgen of The Birds, a dollop of Titanic; there's something of the cattle-truck scenes from Schindler's List and he partly recycles the denouement from Jaws. Underneath it all is a straight-ahead storyline of obstacles overcome and life lessons learned. In a crisis - and what a crisis - Tom learns to be a proper dad.

The opening sequence, in which the Earth's crust slowly cracks open in a New York street and sends buildings, churches and cars hither and thither, is undoubtedly impressive, but all Tom Cruise can do is look stunned and smudgy-faced and then run away, to show that it's scary - but also keep looking defiantly back, to show us he's not a wuss. It would be easier for him to run slowly backwards in a sort of Chuck Berry duckwalk of courage. The metal three-legged thingies, when they emerge, emit a deafening synthesised honk in the key of C and zap folk with a death-ray, vaporising everything but the victim's trousers. The aliens' appearance is the cue for the film's one good line. Cruise's stunned son asks his dad if they're terrorists. "No, they're from some place else," says Cruise and the boy gasps: "You mean, like Europe?"

Soon the terrified populace is on the move, straggling in the opposite direction from columns of grimly unsympathetic troops. Some of the civilians have put up a 9/11-style "missing" gallery of pictures. But they're mostly just dazed. What's not to be dazed about? An aeroplane crashes on the house which Cruise and his kids are hiding in. Why? Was it the aliens who shoved it out of the sky? It's not clear - but it sure does make a spectacular scene. A train roars by with flames spilling out of every window: another semi-intentional moment of surreal catastrophe.

The real low point comes when Tom and Dakota have to hide out in a cellar owned by a crazed survivalist, sweatily played by Tim Robbins. The terrified little girl asks Tom to get her to sleep by singing Hushabye Mountain from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Tom chokes up; he doesn't know it - what kind of a dad is he? - so in a low and tearful voice he sings the Beach Boys' Little Deuce Coupe instead. Which is, like, the only song he knows. Not an uncurled toe in the house. It's a truly horrendous irony-free moment for which everyone involved deserves to appear in front of a UN tribunal. To top it off, Dakota lip-quiveringly sings Hushabye Mountain herself later, in circumstances too horrible to mention.

War of the Worlds is a fundamentally unambitious and often quite dull film, compared to Spielberg's great alien romances ET and Close Encounters. It's not simply that those were about "nice" aliens rather than "nasty" aliens. They were interesting aliens, dramatic aliens, alien aliens. These bug-eyed bores are just Area 51 cliches. For aliens, they are very, very familiar. The whole film is a non-war of non-worlds: pseudo-aliens unequally matched with ersatz earthlings, and finally experiencing a reversal that apparently didn't affect them when they came to plant the underground tripods. Orson Welles's listeners thought they were experiencing the real thing. Viewers of this movie will think they are watching a demo for the tie-in video game.

www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/st ... 38,00.html
 
Well I saw this movie on Wednesday night and I have to say it disturbed me. :shock: Okay, there were bits of it that didn't ring true (jumbo jet notwithstanding) - if the tripods had been buried millenia ago how come none of man's excavations uncovered a single one, but as for the rest of it... The son ought not to have survived, either; that was a bit too Hollywood. After all, no one else on that hill did.
The train that came through totally on fire shocked the hell out of me - if anyone had turned around and looked at me at that point I'm sure I would have looked like one of those clowns you get at fairs (where you put the pingpong ball in the mouth) - but without the smile...!
Call me a wuss, but at some point (probably about two thirds the way through) I said to my partner, "I don't think I can watch the rest of this." I did, of course, but that night I had to "distance" myself from the horror (by posting here, amongst other things), before I could sleep - else I thought I'd have nightmares about it.
I did like that it wasn't humans that defeated them in the end. :)
 
worryingly I'm starting to think the Spielberg version was better than the 1953 version currently on channel 5, in a "I'm don't care that much for the charachters in either, but there's aliens blowing stuff up" kind of way :roll: ;)
 
The tripods were superbly done, very close to the description in the novel.
There's some startling images, a train rushing by completely on fire, the triods advance over a hill onto crowds of people trying to get on board a ferry. A rain of rags and ash into a forest from people incinerated by the heat rays.

Tom Cruise not as annoying as I thought he might be, he's not actually a hero, just someone trying to keep his family alive (and willing to do anything to that end). But then in the novel the protagonists don't really do anything to affect the outcome of the story, just try to stay alive as something elemental stamps across the countryside.

Better than the 1953 version in capturing the sense of bleakness an hopelessness.










(Spoiler)
Not too sure about the idea have them being buried for millenia and then activated by the Martians (although the movie never actually says where they came form) riding in earth penetrating capsules.

If they'd been buried we'd surely have uncovered one
 
the train rushing past on fire was a shock, but a little unconvincing, considering the effects of the martians weapons it should've either been knocked straight off the track or if it had gone through an area levelled by the martians the tracks would've been destroyed too. Maybe a little bit too much nitpicking on my part there though. :)
 
Dirtybob said:

There is a thread on this here:

www.imdb.com/title/tt0449040/board/nest/21140869

------------
The first one is from Asylum and directed by David Michael Latt:

www.theasylum.cc/cgi-bin/showMovie.cgi?id=10

----------
The second is from Pendragon Pictures and directed by Timothy Hines:

www.pendragonpictures.com/WOTWKEY.html

It sounds like Tim's has been doing the rounds for a while - this thread suggests he could sue as Spielberg is using ideas he has been talking about since 2001:

www.imdb.com/title/tt0425638/board/nest/21559591

I suppose it may have been an obvious one to remake in a post-911 world - who knows?

There is an awful lot of discussion about the pimping of Tim Hines movie over at Amazon - some rum doings there:

www.imdb.com/title/tt0425638/board/nest/21625698
www.imdb.com/title/tt0425638/board/nest/21548369

It also appears the Amaozn reviews are slipping over into anti-Scientology rants:
www.imdb.com/title/tt0425638/board/nest/21650079

His version is here:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009PW ... enantmc-20

and this review (from CliveOwenSucks who also posts on this at IMDB) also touches on Tim Hines claims that the other War of the Worlds (the Asylum version) was part of the conspiracy and was rushed out to add further confusion to the mix:

Timothy Hines wrote and directed this pathetic home video. He also wrote and directed most of the rave reviews for it on this site. For all the talk you'll read of Spielberg sitting at his laptop faing reviews because he's s scared, the truth is it's Pendragon who are so terrified of people finding out how atrocious this is every time a bad review appears they paste four fake raves to drive it off the page. And despite Hines claims (writing as first-time reviewer 'Howard S.' this time), this review isn't a copy of an earlier review simply posted under another name, unlike Mr Hines' efforts - go through every single review here and you won't find another copy of this post, but you'll discover many of the 5-star reviews ARE identical copies of earlier reviews. Funny, that.

First off, for the benefit of the outraged 'Mary Hovig's' of this board (hi, Timbo!), I work for the National Health Service in Scotland, not Paramount in Hollywood. I've seen the Spielberg version of War of the Worlds and I didn't care for it. I certainly wouldn't recommend it. It's professionally made, unlike this, but that's about it. None of which changes the disgusting level of dishonesty on display in these boards.

It's laughably obvious most reviews here are fakes planted by the producers of this crime against cinema. Some of them don't just use the same kind of phrases, they're even word for word copies of the first reviews. If you're in any doubt about this, check out the rave reviews. All by first-time posters with no other reviews. Check out the bad and a lot of them are by regulars. According to Hines' sockpuppets, these are all by Paramount plants because no-one who doesn't like the film could remember why they didn't like it in any detail, let alone write about it!

But Pendragon and Timbo Hines are so desperate now industry magazine Variety called the film 'a penny-pinched production of "Masterpiece Theater" directed by Ed Wood, with special effects created on a secondhand laptop.. a direct-to-video travesty... Overall ineptitude... straight-faced folly as accidental comedy' that they're getting lazy.

Compare and contrast these two:

Timbo Hines in an internet interview talking about the much better Asylum version with the same title -

"the director said it was based on several sources, including the War of the Worlds. You can imagine how happy I was when they decide to change their name at the last minute to a title almost identical to ours. We researched them a bit and found some very strange things.

"Their version stars C. Thomas Howell who was in E.T. and was the star of the Outsiders, in which Tom Cruise played a supporting role. their version also stars Jake Busey, son of Gary Busey, who's playing in Spielberg's Into The West series running right now. The only studio distributor connected to Asylum is Paramount and one of the people from their company keeps his offices on the Paramount lot. A lot of strange connections to Paramount. What does all this mean? I don't know. Maybe it is like the Lincoln/Kennedy comparisons. I'll have to leave it up to the conspiracy theorists. Still, it IS a lot of coincidences."


And here's what 'Alan Beckman,' first time anti-Spielberg reviewer says in his 'review' -

"A low budget production covertly financed by Paramount to confuse the public about the various productions, thus making Spielberg's movie stand out. It's duel purpose is to draw some of the money back to the Spielberg camp.

"Not based on THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. This production had the title INVASION until March, then switched titles and claims "elements" based on the Wells' book.

"Starring C. Thamas Howell from Spielberg's ET and THE OUTSIDERS, (who co-starred Tom Cruise). And Jake Busey, son of Gary Busey (who is starring in Spielberg's OUT OF THE WEST). "


So, do you believe these are two different people? Really?

And how crazy is Timbo's `evidence'? Because one of the cast worked with Spielberg a quarter of a century ago? Because the dad of another is in a TV show Spielberg's company made? VERY convincing! I'm willing to bet that claim is every bit as truthful as the other reviews Timothy Hines has been writing himself here. You know the ones, they're easy to spot: they include one or more of the following:

- Bravo Timothy Hines

- Congratulations Pendragon

- Well done indie guys

- Not cookie cutter stuff

- Not a video game

- stylized, like David Lynch

- like a painting in the Metropolitan Museum

- the effects are deliberately bad to look like an old movie

- Paramount are terrified of us and all the 'real name' and established reviewers here who hate it are Scientologists

- everything from the books in the film

- Hines is a genius, give him more money

- characterisation is brilliant

- great acting

- Variety never even saw this film, their review is a lie!

- Every single review ever not to like this film is paid for by Paramount. Only people who like this film and use the same phrases are 'honest'

- Only a Paramount employee could write a review saying why they didn't like the film: ordinary people are too stupid

Among a hundred other paranoid rants. But don't take my word for it - go through these reviews carefully and then make up your mind which ones are legit and which ones show Timbo has too much time on his hands to libel other people while trying to fake up the user rating.

BUYER BEWARE!

---------------
Top mark to Dirtybob for stumbling across this little slice of madness :)
 
:rofl:

excellent, that's what Spielberg and Co missed: The slapstick angle :)
 
What about W. G. Grace's Last Case or The War of The Worlds Part II by Willie Rushton?
 
Not too sure about the idea have them being buried for millenia and then activated by the Martians (although the movie never actually says where they came form) riding in earth penetrating capsules.

If they'd been buried we'd surely have uncovered one

Am i to take it the Martians needed Humans to feed on or to use as some sort of experimentation? I take it this must be the case (even though it wasn't explained) as why would they hide for all that time instead of just taking the planet when no Humans were yet around?! Justa thought.All in all though i thought it wasn't half bad.
 
We went to see it last night and I have to say that it totally surpassed my expectations. Any story that was penned in the late 1800's and makes the transition to Hollywood is bound to lose some of its integrity but it was really well done.

The tripods rocked. Especially the Uuh-Lah call they give out!! The cinema we went to had the volume cranked right up, which in my opinion really helped the atmos.

One of the more un-nerving films I have seen in a long, long time.

Wouldnt have cast Cruise myself though. Could have done with someone English......
 
roachford said:
Wouldnt have cast Cruise myself though. Could have done with someone English......

the thought of Hugh Grant doing the same role just entered my head ... :shock: :?
 
I just got back from seeing this - it's actually rather good.

Not expecting too much as I'm not a great fan of Speilberg or Cruise, or remakes for that matter, but I was pleasantly surprised - very atmospheric, it keeps the vibe of the original story well.

Damn good tripods and heat ray effects too, the ash/rags thing is well chilling. :shock:
 
Doubts about Dubya

War of the Worlds is more than just multiplex fodder - it's the first nail in the coffin of George Bush's presidency

John Patterson
Friday July 8, 2005
The Guardian



Political scandals in America often take a while to percolate into the national consciousness, and in much the same way, it customarily takes big studio movies a long time to reflect attitudes that have already been broadly noticeable in wider society for a while. The only movie of note to deal with Vietnam while it was going on was John Wayne's flag-waver The Green Berets in 1969. Thereafter, no movies were made directly about the war until Go Tell the Spartans, The Boys in Company C and The Deer Hunter, all released in 1978. While the events themselves were transpiring, Hollywood barely addressed them. Perhaps this isn't altogether surprising. The years between the Kennedy assassination and Nixon's resignation constituted a grievous national political trauma that many citizens wished to cast out of their minds.

These days we live in a faster-moving world, particularly since the advent of the internet, and of a mainstream American media that is largely hostage to corporate interests and no longer bound by the Fairness Doctrine that once ensured political balance in reporting. Nonetheless, stories of political skullduggery still take time to metastasize into actual cancers of scandal, or to be reflected in mainstream popular culture.

So it was gratifying over the July 4 weekend to witness the simultaneous naming of Bush hatchet-man Karl Rove as a leading suspect in the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame, a story that may ultimately prove the undoing of the Bush administration, and a new movie - the biggest studio blockbuster of the summer, no less - that to some degree, no matter how wishy-washy or mealy-mouthed, reflects many of the anxieties and fears that have plagued Americans since 9/11 and the subsequent invasion of Iraq. What is most surprising is that the movie in question, an adaptation of The War of the Worlds, is directed by that dedicated defender of the status quo, Steven Spielberg. And it's a monster hit, having netted over $200m in its first five days.

Now, it's foolish to proclaim War as some fierce dissenting blockbuster. Spielberg doesn't make movies like that; he aims for Middle America, the middlebrow audience, the middle class and seeks to placate both Blue and Red State audiences, all of which requires political agnosticism if fortunes are to be made. Spielberg does however, consciously establish that the alien invasion is taking place in the post-9/11 world. As the daughter of Tom Cruise's character (Dakota Fanning) asks plaintively at one point, "Is it the terrorists?" The invaders - who seem earlier to have formed sleeper cells - suck human victims from their clothes and we see shirts and blouses floating to the ground in some sequences, eerily redolent of the blizzards of paper drifting from the Twin Towers. And surely it is no accident that Hollywood's most prominent, articulate, and avowedly left-wing political dissenter, Tim Robbins, is the person chosen to utter these words about the alien onslaught, directly into the camera: "Occupations always fail."

This at precisely the moment time when, in opinion polls, a majority of Americans have begun expressing extreme doubts about the Iraq war, and profound, albeit retrospective unease at the way the country was stampeded, by fear and fabrication, into accepting its necessity. The gears of creativity grind slowly in Hollywood, so it's all the more surprising that War of the Worlds was a fast-track project for Cruise and Spielberg, shoehorned into their hectic schedules when both became suddenly available, and shot very quickly.

If Spielberg contents himself with pointed doubts about the direction in which America is being led internationally, another movie, George Romero's Land of the Dead - backed by Universal Studios - is a much more explicitly satirical view of where America is headed domestically. Back in 1968, Romero claimed that the flesh-eating zombies in his Night of the Living Dead were, metaphorically, the "Silent Majority" of voters who Nixon claimed had ensured his election victory that November. In Land, Night's third sequel, Romero posits a giant gated society, in which the wealthiest surviving humans live in guarded fortresses, lording it over a lumpen class of servile non-zombies who fetch and carry for them, while outside the poignantly depicted flesh-eaters live their Hobbesian nightmare of bloodhunts. However, much like the present-day electorate, zombies have begun to develop the ability to communicate - a necessary preface, in the movie's metaphor, to achieving political consciousness. The zombies who voted Bush in are finally waking up ...

But Romero has long been a canny and dependable dissident. The real point here is that if Bush has lost Spielberg, who for all his shortcomings remains the presiding cinematic visionary of Middle America, he suddenly looks a lot like Lyndon Johnson in 1968, when CBS anchorman Walter Cronkite, the reassuring TV uncle of the nation, turned publicly against the war in Vietnam. And Rove's smears have their roots in Iraq, just as Watergate arose directly from Vietnam and the release of the Pentagon Papers, so perhaps it's not too soon to start wondering if Bush's remake of the Vietnam quagmire will soon be followed by a remake of Watergate. Sequels and remakes - sometimes they work out nicely for everyone.

www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/st ... 95,00.html
 
Timble said:
Not too sure about the idea have them being buried for millenia and then activated by the Martians (although the movie never actually says where they came form) riding in earth penetrating capsules.

If they'd been buried we'd surely have uncovered one

Tripods as the menace of underground terrorist cells...

At which point does a metaphor get too literal to still be regarded as a metaphor? :roll:
 
Zygon said:
Timble said:
Not too sure about the idea have them being buried for millenia and then activated by the Martians (although the movie never actually says where they came form) riding in earth penetrating capsules.

If they'd been buried we'd surely have uncovered one

Tripods as the menace of underground terrorist cells...

At which point does a metaphor get too literal to still be regarded as a metaphor? :roll:
Another direct and probably unacknowledged lift from Nigel Kneale's Quatermass and the Pit?
 
I really enjoyed this, thought it was dead scary. :shock: The tripods were great. I loved the noise they made too, I had been kind of worried about that in a Jeff Wayne fan type way. :D Great stuff.

Just one bit at the end which others have already mentioned which I didn't like, but hey, you can't have everything.
 
I've just seen this too and I did enjoy it but I don't think it was scarey. Some excellent performances and it was nice to see Tom Cruise as just an ordinary guy battling in an extraordinary situation.

quick - look out for that heat ray smiley

:furious:

too late!

Gordon
(and many thanks to my lovely girlfriend for sorting out my new avatar - cool, not sure about "great old one" though!)
 
I saw this film last night and was very impressed. It really does convey the fear of ordinary people involved in a situation like this and makes Independence Day look like Scooby Doo!

(I loved Independence Day too but in a different way.)
 
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