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Spy Murder 'Too Sensitive For Court'

The policeman who found the body of MI6 codebreaker Gareth Williams said it was submerged in ‘fluid’, The Mail on Sunday has learned.
An inquest heard last week that the 31-year-old spy was padlocked in a sports hold-all and left in the bath of his two-bedroom flat in Pimlico, Central London.
But the disclosure that he was also covered by liquid – not thought to be blood or water – has raised fears that a substance was used to accelerate decay and complicate toxicology tests.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... decay.html

why is this fluid now not being discussed ?
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Jonfairway, MI6 left you a message - 'We're gonna need a bigger holdall.'
 
Jonfairway said:
wow this chap was good !

he was across dresser
into bondage and sm
and a spy !


and his employers had no IDEA he was that way inclined !

oooooo hang on

what a great way for him to have an accident !!!!!
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Well apart from the fact that he was employed by SIS so you could I suppose describe him as a 'spy', the rest is just pure conjecture.

An equally valid take on the above would be: He bought women's clothes for a lady he admired and as the keys were found under him and he was padlocked into a bag he was practicing escaping from a locked bag a la Houdini.
 
Heckler's explanations seem glib. Practised, even. :lol:
 
escargot1 said:
Heckler's explanations seem glib. Practised, even. :lol:
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Honestly I was rolling out pastry in the nude when I slipped and fell upon the rolling pin etc etc.
 
escargot1 said:
Heckler's explanations seem glib. Practised, even. :lol:
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Note to Heckler re current focus of interest: No need to transport costumes, bizarre sexual paraphernalia, embarrassing literature, etc to current subject's locus - all relevant materials will be found on-site.
 
You only have to look at his photo to deduce that he was a drag queen or transvestite. Thin frame, good skin, immaculately groomed eyebrows. Look at the eyebrows.

Quiet, shy fellow as a man - but as his alter-ego, he'd probably be a bit more outgoing.

I think his lady friends either didn't know or they are pretending they didn't know, because of potential embarrassment to the family. I mean, who has a wardrobe stuffed with £20k worth of designer clothes that are 'gifts'?
 
That's enough about Heckler.
 
MI6 officer dead or unconscious when placed in bag, inquest told

This article is interesting. This bit, about the websites he visited,

One image viewed showed "a model enclosed in plastic and using a vacuum cleaner to suck the air out"
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caught my eye because the vacuum-bondage scenario is VERY dangerous indeed. A few years back, during research for my Criminology MA, I enjoyed access to various specialised journals.

One highly intriguing medical journal article described the death of a man who'd tried a plastic/vacuum 'game'. The vacuum cleaner removed the air from the plastic bag in seconds. As a result, rather than being pleasantly squeezed, the unfortunate gentleman was quickly asphyxiated due to rapid compression of the lungs.

His teenage son came home from a family shopping trip to find him dead on the lounge floor, the Hoover still diligently sucking. No matter how much fun they are, these games are dangerous. :shock:
 
escargot1 said:
MI6 officer dead or unconscious when placed in bag, inquest told

This article is interesting. This bit, about the websites he visited,

One image viewed showed "a model enclosed in plastic and using a vacuum cleaner to suck the air out"
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caught my eye because the vacuum-bondage scenario is VERY dangerous indeed. A few years back, during research for my Criminology MA, I enjoyed access to various specialised journals.

One highly intriguing medical journal article described the death of a man who'd tried a plastic/vacuum 'game'. The vacuum cleaner removed the air from the plastic bag in seconds. As a result, rather than being pleasantly squeezed, the unfortunate gentleman was quickly asphyxiated due to rapid compression of the lungs.

His teenage son came home from a family shopping trip to find him dead on the lounge floor, the Hoover still diligently sucking. No matter how much fun they are, these games are dangerous. :shock:
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Don't forget Stephen Milligan MP.

Milligan was found dead in his flat in Black Lion Lane, Chiswick, London by his secretary Vera Taggart on 7 February 1994.[1][5] The discovery of his corpse in what was presumed to be a state of autoerotic asphyxiation, combined with self-bondage and cross-dressing. A detail of his death, which was the subject of much comment and speculation at the time, was that he was found to have had an orange segment in his mouth at the time of his death. Police believed that he died on the night of Saturday 5 February 1994.
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Or maybe he was killed by the Orange Order...
 
escargot1 said:
One highly intriguing medical journal article described the death of a man who'd tried a plastic/vacuum 'game'. The vacuum cleaner removed the air from the plastic bag in seconds. As a result, rather than being pleasantly squeezed, the unfortunate gentleman was quickly asphyxiated due to rapid compression of the lungs.

His teenage son came home from a family shopping trip to find him dead on the lounge floor, the Hoover still diligently sucking. No matter how much fun they are, these games are dangerous. :shock:
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Geez, there are easier ways to have a orgasm. By the time some of these "specialist" equipment arrangements are set up I'm surprised they still have the energy or will.
 
The bloke I mentioned was found fully-clothed. He had built himself a frame out of plumbing pipes, with holes drilled at intervals along them, covered in neatly taped-together clear plastic to make a sort of body-fitting greenhouse. One end of the piping protruded from the frame and connected to the vacuum cleaner so that it could suck the air out through the holes.

He had plugged the vac into an extension and pulled the plug inside the frame, obviously planning to pull out the plug when he felt ready. However, when the air was sucked out the plastic covering clamped his hand to the plug and he couldn't stop it.

The police doctor who attended got some doctor mates in and asked them to guess how long it would take the vac to empty the frame of air. They guessed a minute or two, but it was much less than that.

The victim had found out how to make the frame from a website and had built it at home when his family were out and hidden it in the attic or somewhere. Presumably this was his first try-out. Very sad and tragic for his family.

I have the article somewhere, complete with photos. :shock:
 
I dunno why anybody does all that. A 5-knuckle shuffle is perfectly acceptable. :roll:
 
ramonmercado said:
Mythopoeika said:
I dunno why anybody does all that. A 5-knuckle shuffle is perfectly acceptable. :roll:
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Do you come here often?
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At my age, it's difficult...but I manage. :p
 
i can see the autoerotic stuff is far more interesting but we are discussing a murder here !!!

do we have any inkling what he was working on ?
he had virtually completed it, as he was leaving MI6 contract 2 days after he Died !
 
Jilted lover seen walking away from flat on the night of the murder ?
 
Jonfairway said:
i can see the autoerotic stuff is far more interesting but we are discussing a murder here !!!...
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This is a coroner's inquest, not a trial; as far as I know it's main purpose is to determine cause of death and the circumstances surrounding it. If these have not yet been determined then, as far as I'm aware, it isn't yet a murder case - at least technically. As such, and as auto-erotic behaviour is not at all an unknown factor in sudden and unattended deaths, then the auto-erotic discussion is not necessarily irrelevant.

I think.

Edit: Cue 'scargs - she knows about this stuff.
 
300 failed attempts at a man locking himself in bag
and a date rape toxicology trace

errrrrr

i'm not saying this chap wasnt weird ! i'm sure he was
but do weirdos drug em selves and then be able to lock em selves in bags !!

come on folks
 
Interesting point about the GHB.
I can imagine that anybody who had taken GHB wouldn't be capable of locking themselves in a bag like that.
GHB is a very commonly used drug on the gay scene.
Of course, somebody he knew could have used it to drug him and then put him in the bag, whereupon he died of suffocation.

This leads me to propose another theory that nobody else has thought of:

Maybe some of his more raucous colleagues at MI6 decided they'd like to play a jolly prank on the shy guy by doing this to him, without quite realising that it would end in death?
In this scenario, a couple of his loud, brash colleagues turn up unannounced at his door. He lets them in.
They drug his drink and he passes out.
Then they put him in the bag and lock it. When they open it again, they find him dead.
Panicked, they put the bag in the bath and go into 'damage limitation' mode, cleaning away all traces and evidence.
 
Jonfairway said:
i'm not saying this chap wasnt weird ! i'm sure he was
but do weirdos drug em selves and then be able to lock em selves in bags !!

come on folks
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In a word yes. There's nowt so queer as folk and if this was Mr. Jones who lives two doors up from you found in similar circumstances, once the initial purient interest had waned, people wouldn't give a stuff. As it is it has an interesting espionage angle that is keeping it in the news.
 
If yoga/escapology experts couldn't replicate the feat of locking the bag from the inside, I doubt very much that Williams managed it. There must have been a third party present. The question is whether his death was connected to his work; was the work of a killer but unrelated to his job; or was some sort of sex game that went horribly wrong
 
Heckler20 said:
...In a word yes. There's nowt so queer as folk and if this was Mr. Jones who lives two doors up from you found in similar circumstances, once the initial purient interest had waned, people wouldn't give a stuff. As it is it has an interesting espionage angle that is keeping it in the news.
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Generally, I'd agree - although, unless explained, the element of the bag being locked from the outside would, under any circumstances, always lift this a little bit beyond the everyday, and probably assure it a place in the annals of mysterious deaths. That, said - yes, I doubt it would have received a tenth of the coverage had it not been for the potential espionage element.
 
He was half alive, until someone opened the bag and collapsed the waveform. ;)
 
kamalktk said:
He was half alive, until someone opened the bag and collapsed the waveform. ;)
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:confused:
 
Oh, that again.
 
If yoga/escapology experts couldn't replicate the feat of locking the bag from the inside, I doubt very much that Williams managed it. There must have been a third party present. The question is whether his death was connected to his work; was the work of a killer but unrelated to his job; or was some sort of sex game that went horribly wrong
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right

i agree a third party

sex game scenerio
lets assume a few things here
he knew the person if it was a sex game gone wrong
that person maybe has a key to his flat
He trusted this person completely
given his work position Mi6 would have known this, why wouldnt he/she have been called in, unless it was a MI6 person !
Can this person get MI6 to not seek him missing meetings for a week without contact ?

a murder
who has ability to turn a blind eye to his missing work without real alarm
who knew of his " interesting habits" for sure its their job to know
who could setup to use this to look like a game gone wrong or a suicide

so i,m left with
MI6 are covering up, either the sex game mate, or the hit
 
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