Spy Murder "Too Sensitive For Court"

Jonfairway

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
90
Points
79
MI6 'hid evidence': Body-in-bag spy's memory sticks withheld from cops

Murder squad officers were understood to be furious that nine computer memory sticks and a North Face bag have been withheld from the murder inquiry for 20 MONTHS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bo ... eld-814373

The family’s lawyer has previously said relatives feared the flat had been professionally cleaned of evidence by an agency specialising in the “dark arts”.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
44,032
Reaction score
35,981
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
I can't really think of a logical reason why MI6 would deliberately order a 'hit' on one of their own. After all, they quite happily allow real enemies of the state to swan about free.
I'm definitely thinking it was an 'inside' job, though. A rogue member of MI6 who disliked him, maybe.
I don't believe the 'sex game' thing. I think that's just a red herring.
The DNA sample found on the lock should be used to root out the person who was responsible. It's strange that the police haven't done that.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,025
Reaction score
27,353
Points
309
Location
Eblana
Mythopoeika said:
I can't really think of a logical reason why MI6 would deliberately order a 'hit' on one of their own. After all, they quite happily allow real enemies of the state to swan about free.
I'm definitely thinking it was an 'inside' job, though. A rogue member of MI6 who disliked him, maybe.
I don't believe the 'sex game' thing. I think that's just a red herring.
The DNA sample found on the lock should be used to root out the person who was responsible. It's strange that the police haven't done that.
Some would suspect that you are an MI6 agent...
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
44,032
Reaction score
35,981
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
ramonmercado said:
Mythopoeika said:
I can't really think of a logical reason why MI6 would deliberately order a 'hit' on one of their own. After all, they quite happily allow real enemies of the state to swan about free.
I'm definitely thinking it was an 'inside' job, though. A rogue member of MI6 who disliked him, maybe.
I don't believe the 'sex game' thing. I think that's just a red herring.
The DNA sample found on the lock should be used to root out the person who was responsible. It's strange that the police haven't done that.
Some would suspect that you are an MI6 agent...
Ha ha, no. :lol:
I don't even vaguely resemble James Bond.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,025
Reaction score
27,353
Points
309
Location
Eblana
Mythopoeika said:
ramonmercado said:
Mythopoeika said:
I can't really think of a logical reason why MI6 would deliberately order a 'hit' on one of their own. After all, they quite happily allow real enemies of the state to swan about free.
I'm definitely thinking it was an 'inside' job, though. A rogue member of MI6 who disliked him, maybe.
I don't believe the 'sex game' thing. I think that's just a red herring.
The DNA sample found on the lock should be used to root out the person who was responsible. It's strange that the police haven't done that.
Some would suspect that you are an MI6 agent...
Ha ha, no. :lol:
I don't even vaguely resemble James Bond.
But they don't, look at David Shayler.
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
I can't really think of a logical reason why MI6 would deliberately order a 'hit' on one of their own. After all, they quite happily allow real enemies of the state to swan about free.
I'm definitely thinking it was an 'inside' job, though. A rogue member of MI6 who disliked him, maybe.
My guess would be a foreign agency, possibly from an officially friendly or semi-friendly power. Hence the reluctance to dig too deeply.

I don't believe the 'sex game' thing. I think that's just a red herring.
If Williams had an interest in being tied up/locked in small spaces, which seems probable if his former landlady is to be believed, then it's an obvious way for a third party to get him to let down his guard/trap him in a vulnerable position. He may have thought he was participating in a game or some sort and then found himself unable to get out.

The DNA sample found on the lock should be used to root out the person who was responsible. It's strange that the police haven't done that.
I'm sure they have but if the DNA isn't in the system, what do you suggest they do?
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
44,032
Reaction score
35,981
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Quake42 said:
I'm sure they have but if the DNA isn't in the system, what do you suggest they do?
Test all members of MI6 who came into contact with him?
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
Test all members of MI6 who came into contact with him?
Perhaps they have - although personally I doubt it. Doesn't help if it's an alterntive agency/foreign agents.
 

OneWingedBird

Beloved of Ra
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
15,652
Reaction score
7,019
Points
284
he knew the person if it was a sex game gone wrong
that person maybe has a key to his flat
He trusted this person completely
Just because he had sound judgement about people in other areas of his life it doesn;t necessarily mean he had in this one... he may have taken an undue risk in his choice of partner because it was difficult to find someone to do that to him, depending on how he was connected, or perhaps said undue risk was part of the fun for him?

If there was another person involved, he might just have met them.
 

Jonfairway

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
90
Points
79
Just because he had sound judgement about people in other areas of his life it doesn;t necessarily mean he had in this one... he may have taken an undue risk in his choice of partner because it was difficult to find someone to do that to him, depending on how he was connected, or perhaps said undue risk was part of the fun for him?

If there was another person involved, he might just have met them.
that type of trust relationship does not happen over night in that community it can take many months, of which i'm sure his watchers in MI6 would have been aware.

even if it was a spur of the moment thing, that new partner did not have access to hide the fact he was absent from work for 7 days without notice ?
 

Heckler

The unspeakable mass
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
5,289
Reaction score
2,232
Points
219
British intelligence agent Dr Gareth Williams’ last mission before he was “unlawfully killed” was to infiltrate and report on US hacker meetings, evidence given at his inquest this week has indicated.

Williams appears to have been one of a team of intelligence officers and agents sent to penetrate hacking networks in the US and the UK.

At first sight more Austin Powers than James Bond, Williams is the first spy geek to be publicly unmasked, in sadly sensational circumstances.

His naked and decomposing body was found in the foetal position inside a sports holdall in the bath of his central London flat on 23 August 2010, one week after he had failed to turn up for work at SIS - aka MI6 - headquarters in Vauxhall Cross, London.

Coroner Dr Fiona Wilcox said yesterday that she was satisfied that a third party had placed the bag with his body into the bath and had also, “on a balance of probability”, padlocked it shut.

According to pathologists and escapologists who testified during her enquiry, the padlock on the almost airtight enclosure sealed his fate, stupefying and then killing him within minutes from CO2 poisoning.

His death was “was unnatural and criminally mediated”, she said. It was not suicide.


Gareth Williams
Who shut the lock on the holdall is a question that the coroner said could not be resolved with the evidence available. “Most of the fundamental questions in relation to how Gareth died remain unanswered," she said.

The compelling answer is a sex date a week before – somebody he had invited in to play bondage games and who may have panicked and fled when Williams lost consciousness, or sadistically locked the bag and left him to suffer.

Whoever he or she was, they did not leave enough DNA or forensic traces for detectives to have made progress to date. But the police forensic examination team, who checked through Williams' Mac laptop and iPhone collection, seem to have been blithely unaware of how many digital traces they may have missed or how much more may still be out there.

Williams’ last espionage targets were participants in the Black Hat and Defcon 18 hacker and security conferences held in Las Vegas in July 2010. His SIS manager told the enquiry that Williams was one of a “group” of agents tasked to attend the conferences.

The inquest was told about the unique Defcon 18 badge that had been found in his flat. The gimmick features a reflective display and an embedded digital signal controller that geeks were invited to manipulate.

Previously, as an operational officer, Williams had met two SIS agents working in the field in Britain, although not as their case officer or handler. Had he had not become cheesed off with SIS, the inquest was told, he would have been assigned abroad as a British secret agent. A few months before his death, he asked to go back to GCHQ.

Williams' working life, after graduating with a first in mathematics in 1996 aged 17, was spent in Cheltenham at GCHQ, Britain’s signals intelligence agency. He joined in 2001 after completing a PhD in computer science at Manchester University. His final role in GCHQ had been designing "practical applications for emerging technologies".

In 2007, he applied to become a secret agent by transferring to SIS, the UK's human intelligence agency responsible for spies and spy recruitment. He was put through a series of aptitude and skill tests. He failed. He also attended Black Hat 16 the same year, according to an SIS witness, presumably also then staying on to attend Defcon.

In 2008, he tried again to join SIS, and this time passed the tests. He started in spring 2009 after moving to London, and took part in five SIS training courses before embarking on "active operational work" within UK.

To spy on geeks, you need to hire a serious and thoroughly convincing geek.
Link
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
The compelling answer is a sex date a week before – somebody he had invited in to play bondage games and who may have panicked and fled when Williams lost consciousness, or sadistically locked the bag and left him to suffer.
Whilst that is a plausible scenario, there is no actual evidence for it and the coroner stated specifically that she saw no evidence that Williams' alleged interests in this area were a factor; indeed she suggested that rumours baout his private life were bneing spread deliberately to muddy the waters.

Yet the article reports this speculation as though it was a fact.

Terrible reporting even by the Register's standards.
 

Heckler

The unspeakable mass
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
5,289
Reaction score
2,232
Points
219
Part 2 of the rather lengthy article:

GCHQ's spy death riddle shines light on UK hacker war
Was Gareth Williams spotted at Blackhat or Defcon?

By Duncan Campbell • Get more from this author

Posted in Crime, 3rd May 2012 11:14 GMT

Free whitepaper – Consideration for the Cloud

'There is a history of sending intelligence agents to Defcon'
Details of names he used and his “legend”, or cover story, for the Blackhat and Defcon conferences have not yet emerged. But government agents – certainly US government agents - trying secretly to take part are a familiar sight, according to regular conference participants.

There is a “history of sending intelligence agents to Defcon”, according to privacy researcher and former hacker Christopher Soghoian. The practice has become so familiar, it's now an established joke: event organisers pre-print stockpiles of prized T-shirts that announce “I spotted a Fed”.

Participants are invited to interrupt sessions to air their suspicions of a spy within the audience, much like parliamentarians making a point of order, according to Soghoian. The session chair must then invite the accused spook to confess. If they do, the accuser wins an “I’ve been spotted” T-shirt.

British spooks are not known to have being challenged or exposed in this way. But the quiet Welsh, lean, slim, short, fit young geek with cropped hair and a penchant for red T-shirts is unlikely to have passed unnoticed.

Save for exceptional tidiness, Williams’ London government-rented flat was equipped as a nerd should wish: two live Macs, parts of a dead Mac, four iPhones, loose SIMs, and assorted gear.

Digital clues found in Williams' flat
One of the iPhones, the inquest was told, was his “normal” phone, which GCHQ and SIS staff attempted to call when he failed to appear in his office. The others may have been used to cover identities. One of the iPhones, found in the lounge, had been operated on Sunday, 15 August, and reset to factory settings. At 23.54, that iPhone was backed up to his linked Mac Air laptop, potentially overwriting previously stored data and call or chat records. The Mac Air was used to browse the net for another 90 minutes, finally dropping in just after 1am on the web pages of the Evesham Wheelers, a cycling club near Cheltenham.

Hours later on Monday morning, he was probably dead, according to pathology reports on the degree of decomposition found.

Between July 2008 and August 2010, according to records found on the Apple tech, Williams had periodically browsed websites concerning fetish clothing and self-bondage, looked up “bondage training” on YouTube, and checked a wiki on hogties. He had artofcontstraint.com, an “adults only” website offering “exceptional bondage images”. The site has not been online since July 2011, but at the time Williams visited, it featured images and video of rope and bondage techniques. He had also made frequent visits to high fashion sites.


Williams was a keen cyclist
A loner with no identified sexual partners, he was said to have most enjoyed intense cycling, and fell running and climbing in Wales with his father. SIS’s internal culture had irritated him, causing him to break his secondment. He would have returned to GCHQ the month after his body was found.

Forensic phone examiner DC Robert Burrows, of SO15 Counter Terrorism Command, told the inquest that he had found no record of the identity of Gareth’s date on the likely fateful night. But he did find a homemade phone video in which the shy intelligence officer had stripped, put on boots, bent over a chair and waggled his rear at the camera.

Burrows and his colleagues who studied the Macs and iPhone appeared unfamiliar with Apple’s operating systems, and may not have realised what could be obtained by more sophisticated enquiries. He failed to mention iOS or any of its many features that could have revealed location-tracking geo-tags, address book contents and the phone's unique IMEI number - let alone any data passed to Apple and app makers.

The inquest forensically exposed wretched incompetence by the intelligence services as much as it threw a cruel spotlight on the intimate thoughts, leanings and experiments of a very private person. Williams’ SIS team leader testified under oath that he had called Williams on Tuesday, 17 August. But this claim was not supported by phone forensics or telephone company records. DC Burrows found instead that SIS had made a series of panic calls between 10am and 11am on Monday, 23 August. They were a week late.

Sir John Sawers, known as "C", has published an “unreserved” personal apology to the bereaved family.

Williams’ former co-workers at Cheltenham sit inside the largest data harvesting apparatus Britain has ever seen, an irony that should not be lost on the murder investigators that the Met will now deploy on more a detailed and complete enquiry.

GCHQ has led the demand for long-term storage of all communications records and social networking data, and for untrammelled access to internet providers' networks. They already exercise massive surveillance over the web. Will they tell the police that they cannot now trawl to find the telecommunications and contact data apparently erased the night before their own prize-winning officer died from his own exhalations?

And if not, perhaps they would like to drop in on Apple HQ and ask the geniuses there
Link
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
If Williams' flat had been as expertly cleaned of forensic traces as appears to the the case, I doubt that independent hackers of the whitehat or blackhat variety were responsible.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
6,987
Reaction score
8,944
Points
294
Location
Midwich
Quake42 said:
If Williams' flat had been as expertly cleaned of forensic traces as appears to the the case...
Is this true? I recall that the family claimed that it was the case.

DNA evidence from two individuals was found on the one piece of evidence you would expect the authorities to examine the life out of - so it wasn't that expertly cleaned.
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
Is this true? I recall that the family claimed that it was the case.
The family did indeed claim this and - FOAF ALERT! - a friend of a friend's father is a senior officer in the Met, and the story I have heard is that the flat had been expertly cleaned, to the point of there being no fingerprints on toothbrushes etc... and that apparently this is very difficult to do and suggests the involvement of serious professionals.

DNA evidence from two individuals was found on the one piece of evidence you would expect the authorities to examine the life out of - so it wasn't that expertly cleaned.
Fragments of DNA were found but not, as I understand it, eniugh to be identifiable.

I'm sure I remember that early reports of Williams' death mentioned the possible use of some sort of mystery liquid which may have hastened decomposition... I don't recall the coroner mentioning this.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
6,987
Reaction score
8,944
Points
294
Location
Midwich
Quake42 said:
...The family did indeed claim this and - FOAF ALERT! - a friend of a friend's father is a senior officer in the Met, and the story I have heard is that the flat had been expertly cleaned, to the point of there being no fingerprints on toothbrushes etc... and that apparently this is very difficult to do and suggests the involvement of serious professionals...
This just sounds odd to me? I mean, why remove trace evidence that should be there - i.e. the victims own - from objects which, presumably, an attacker would not need to handle? Surely the very act of handling something which doesn't require handling is adding an unnecessary element of risk to the operation. And why indiscriminately deep clean a property when you know that the very fact of that process will raise serious questions? I don't know, for something which is being used to indicate professionalism I suppose it just seems a bit clumsy to me.

...I'm sure I remember that early reports of Williams' death mentioned the possible use of some sort of mystery liquid which may have hastened decomposition... I don't recall the coroner mentioning this.
I've always felt that the liquid thing was maybe a misunderstanding of the decomposition process, exacerbated by the fact that the body was in a confined and waterproof container. It’s my understanding that even before soft tissue starts to decompose, liquid - including that from the lungs - is ejected from the body via various orifices. Whatever, I really wouldn’t have wanted to be the one opening that bag for the first time. (From what I can recall I think the liquid was mentioned by one of the coppers originally called to the flat – I’m not sure if the idea that it was an accelerant of the decomposition process was his own conjecture or that of other officers, or the media).

And why liquefy a corpse? (I should point out that I'm kind of playing devil's advocate again.) Surely, if you wish to hide the fact of a death, decomposition - and all the attendant unpleasantness - is something you'd wish to delay, rather than accelerate. I might have been able to make more sense of the presence of chemicals which might desiccate a corpse – deliberately turning it to mush just seems, again, a bit odd.
 

Quake42

Warrior Princess
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
9,310
Reaction score
3,797
Points
219
This just sounds odd to me? I mean, why remove trace evidence that should be there - i.e. the victims own - from objects which, presumably, an attacker would not need to handle? Surely the very act of handling something which doesn't require handling is adding an unnecessary element of risk to the operation. And why indiscriminately deep clean a property when you know that the very fact of that process will raise serious questions? I don't know, for something which is being used to indicate professionalism I suppose it just seems a bit clumsy to me.
Well, as I say I'm reporting a FOAFtale (although I believe my friend, it's possible his friend and/or her father are gilding the lily somewhat in order to seem more knowledgable than they are). However, I could imagine that it may be easier and less risky to deep clean and remove all traces of any fingerprints/DNA from a crime scene than it would be to focus on particular rooms or obvious objects. By doing rhe latter you risk forgetting that you operned a window, or wiped your hands on the bathroom towel, or whatever.

*Edit: a murder like this was always going to raise serious questions. The point of cleaning the scene so thoroughly is surely to ensure that there is no way to obtain answers to those questions.

And why liquefy a corpse? (I should point out that I'm kind of playing devil's advocate again.) Surely, if you wish to hide the fact of a death, decomposition - and all the attendant unpleasantness - is something you'd wish to delay, rather than accelerate. I might have been able to make more sense of the presence of chemicals which might desiccate a corpse – deliberately turning it to mush just seems, again, a bit odd.
The central heating had also been left on full blast despite the fact that it was the height of summer - hastening decomposition. One obvious reason for doing so would be if, as one pathologist believed, Williams had been poisoned; the idea being that the body would be in too advanced a state of decay for said poison to be identifiable.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
6,987
Reaction score
8,944
Points
294
Location
Midwich
Quake42 said:
...The central heating had also been left on full blast despite the fact that it was the height of summer - hastening decomposition. One obvious reason for doing so would be if, as one pathologist believed, Williams had been poisoned; the idea being that the body would be in too advanced a state of decay for said poison to be identifiable.
Ah, that might make sense.

With reference to the central heating/height of summer thing, though. When I first read a reference to this I did a quick google: turns out that August 2010 was the coolest since 1993 (Source).

I don't tend to feel the cold (well, not until it's really cold), so I'm not really sure at what temperature other people feel the need to turn on their central heating - but the minimum temperature on the last day Gareth Williams was seen alive was, according to this source, 13°C (I'm assuming that's an overnight reading.) I don't know - is that low enough for some people to feel cool enough to turn the heating on?

(And, of course, if you were to turn the heating on manually - assuming you weren't using the timer because it was supposed to be summer - and then for some reaon it wasn't turned off for over seven days, then the flat really would be overheated at the end of that period.)
 

Jonfairway

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
90
Points
79
This just sounds odd to me? I mean, why remove trace evidence that should be there - i.e. the victims own - from objects which, presumably, an attacker would not need to handle? Surely the very act of handling something which doesn't require handling is adding an unnecessary element of risk to the operation. And why indiscriminately deep clean a property when you know that the very fact of that process will raise serious questions? I don't know, for something which is being used to indicate professionalism I suppose it just seems a bit clumsy to me.
if you remember back to another of my pet conspiracys, dr David Kellys stuff also had no fingerprints on things that should have had !!!!

common clean up MI6 policy ????
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
44,032
Reaction score
35,981
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Just what I suggested in an earlier post:

MI6 staff 'may face DNA screening over spy death'

MI6 staff may have samples of their DNA checked following the death of MI6 officer Gareth Williams, the head of the Metropolitan Police has confirmed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17993222
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
52,025
Reaction score
27,353
Points
309
Location
Eblana
Now the cats in the bag.
'Credible evidence' MI6 spy died alone, says pathologist
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18177069
By Philip Kemp
Radio 4's The Report

MI6 officer Gareth Williams was found dead at his London home in 2010.

Related Stories

MI6 screening possible over spy
MI6 spy 'dead before put in bag'
MI6 spy death 'probably unlawful'

A leading pathologist says the possibility MI6 officer Gareth Williams died alone should be re-examined.

Dr Richard Shepherd told the BBC there is "credible evidence" that bags identical to the one Mr Williams was found in can be locked by someone inside the bag.

Expert witnesses at the inquest into Mr Williams' death failed to do so despite making hundreds of attempts.

However, evidence has since been published claiming it can be done.


Gareth Williams was found dead locked in a bag in his home in 2010
Dr Shepherd, who conducted one of the post-mortem examinations of Gareth Williams, has previously worked on other high profile cases including the deaths of Princess Diana and the government scientist David Kelly.

He says the police should now re-examine the possibility Mr Williams died alone as part of their on-going investigations.

Speaking to Radio 4's The Report, he said: "Now that we have credible evidence that it is possible to lock the bag from the inside, whilst it doesn't rule out homicide, clearly the chances of this as a solitary sexual act have to be considered in any future investigation by the Metropolitan Police."

The Metropolitan Police said the circumstances of Gareth Williams' death continue to be the subject of a thorough investigation.

Mr Williams was found dead, locked in a bag located in a bath tub in his London flat in 2010. One key question before the inquest into his death was whether he had locked himself in the bag.

At the pre-inquest hearing, coroner Dr Fiona Wilcox said the question was central to her inquiries.

Confined space expert Peter Faulding told the inquest that while he could not rule out that it was possible, "even Houdini would have struggled with this one".

A second expert, William MacKay said he and an assistant had also failed despite making more than a hundred attempts.

Their evidence helped the coroner Dr Wilcox earlier this month come to the conclusion that Mr Williams was probably unlawfully killed.

New evidence emerges
However, journalist Claire Hayhurst claims she managed to lock herself in a similar bag after just five attempts under the guidance of a former soldier, Jim Featherstonhaugh, who claims to have figured out a technique.

Continue reading the main story
Find out more


Hear more on The Report on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday, 24 May at 20:00 BST

Listen again via the Radio 4 website
Download The Report podcast
Explore The Report archive
"The trickiest part was getting the lock together which is the biggest riddle of it. I spent maybe two-and-a-half hours getting in and out, filming it, and most of that time was spent with me outside the bag desperately drinking water and trying to recover," she told the BBC.

"I'm not super-fit but I've been told I've got a similar build to Gareth.

"I'd agree that someone of exactly the same proportions would be a fairer comparison but I do think me doing it shows that it's certainly possible."

Claire Hayhurst stresses she worked under the supervision of safety experts and says any attempt to recreate the experiment would be highly dangerous.

Confined space expert Peter Faulding told The Report he stood by the evidence he gave to the inquest.

"None of my conclusions were wrong - a young girl zipping a bag doesn't discredit this inquiry whatsoever," he said.

"We were fully aware of other methods of being able to lock the bag but she or nobody could achieve it without leaving her DNA on the bath - and that's the key to this," he added.

It has also been pointed out that Claire Hayhurst did not lock the bag in exactly the same way as the holdall found in Gareth Williams' flat.

At the inquest into his death, Dr Fiona Wilcox said she was satisfied that a third party had been involved in moving the bag containing the MI6 officer into the bathroom of his flat.

Hear more on The Report on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday, 24 May at 20:00 BST.

You can listen again via the Radio 4 website or by downloading the podcast.
 

AngelAlice

bemused & saddened observer
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
744
Reaction score
48
Points
44
There's been an awful lot of contradicting going on hasn't there? :confused:
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
44,032
Reaction score
35,981
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Seems like someone's desperately trying to close the case...
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
32,749
Reaction score
40,414
Points
309
Location
HM The Tower of London
It's hard to get a handle on.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
6,987
Reaction score
8,944
Points
294
Location
Midwich
AngelAlice said:
There's been an awful lot of contradicting going on hasn't there? :confused:
Expert witnesses having different opinions isn't really that rare, especially, I suspect, with something as specialised as locking yourself in a piece of luggage. What does surprise me is that there are that many people who specialise in the subject, or even that there's such a thing as a 'confined space expert'. I mean, how do you get into that?

(See what I did there? You havin' that, or what? ...Never leaves you.)
 
Top