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Stormkhan

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Factoid:
Peter Butterworth auditioned for a part in the feature film "The Great Escape" but was turned down because he "wasn't convincing as a P.O.W."
During the war he was a pilot officer and shot down in 1940, and after a tunnel escape from the Dulag Luft POW transit camp, he got re-captured and sent to Stalag Luft III which was the factual basis for ... "The Great Escape".
Butterworth was one of the vaulters covering for the escapers during the escape portrayed by the book and film "The Wooden Horse" He auditioned for the film in 1949 but "didn't look convincingly heroic or athletic enough" according to the makers of the film. :rofl:
Perhaps this post should be cut 'n' pasted to the WTF or the Forgotten History thread?
 
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Stormkhan

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Not to my personal taste but, hey ho - it's considered canon. I suppose because it followed "the world" of TOS rather than filling or retro-conning.
 

Trevp666

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When the 'holodeck' appeared on Star Trek TNG, I was certain that I had seen it in use before on an old episode of TOS.
So certain in fact that I have a vivid memory of Kirk and Spock actually being in the holodeck, and them being aware that they were in there.
Now I'm familiar enough with TOS to know that they did have episodes in which they went through various portals to other places, but this memory I have is definitely of a holodeck, on the Enterprise, in TOS, not some later series, or animated version even.
Did I slip into an alternative reality at some point in my past in which the holodeck existed on the NCC-1701?
 

Mythopoeika

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When the 'holodeck' appeared on Star Trek TNG, I was certain that I had seen it in use before on an old episode of TOS.
So certain in fact that I have a vivid memory of Kirk and Spock actually being in the holodeck, and them being aware that they were in there.
Now I'm familiar enough with TOS to know that they did have episodes in which they went through various portals to other places, but this memory I have is definitely of a holodeck, on the Enterprise, in TOS, not some later series, or animated version even.
Did I slip into an alternative reality at some point in my past in which the holodeck existed on the NCC-1701?
I can't remember a holodeck on TOS.
 

Stormkhan

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I don't think there was ever one on the NCC-1701.
Though there was a bowling alley.
 

Trevp666

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Lb8535

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When the 'holodeck' appeared on Star Trek TNG, I was certain that I had seen it in use before on an old episode of TOS.
So certain in fact that I have a vivid memory of Kirk and Spock actually being in the holodeck, and them being aware that they were in there.
Now I'm familiar enough with TOS to know that they did have episodes in which they went through various portals to other places, but this memory I have is definitely of a holodeck, on the Enterprise, in TOS, not some later series, or animated version even.
Did I slip into an alternative reality at some point in my past in which the holodeck existed on the NCC-1701?
You slipped. They did visit planets that had the ability to make them think they were elsewhere - like the pilot episode - what was named in TNG as holodeck technology. Re-watching SG1 I was reminded that "the village is a holomatrix created by [one man] [a computer] [who knows] has recurred in every series I've seen since the 60's. Some of them twice. Maybe not DS9.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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Is it.........................
my............
Imagination.............
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or
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do
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they.............. talk..............
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real--------ly
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slow-------ly
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like they
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are
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talk----------ing
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to
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chil----------dren.........?
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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Anyways....how dare you call them obese.
 

Roland Deschain

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When the 'holodeck' appeared on Star Trek TNG, I was certain that I had seen it in use before on an old episode of TOS.
So certain in fact that I have a vivid memory of Kirk and Spock actually being in the holodeck, and them being aware that they were in there.
Now I'm familiar enough with TOS to know that they did have episodes in which they went through various portals to other places, but this memory I have is definitely of a holodeck, on the Enterprise, in TOS, not some later series, or animated version even.
Did I slip into an alternative reality at some point in my past in which the holodeck existed on the NCC-1701?
Two episodes that might fit
"The Mark of Gideon" has an empty replica enterprise. Kirk and obligatory romantic interest are onboard most of the episode and Spock near the end.
"The Cage” the pilot episode which had no Kirk. Captain Pike is held against his will in an illusory world. Footage was reused in a later episode "The Minagerie” that did feature Kirk viewing the events of Pike’s mission.
 

gordonrutter

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Two episodes that might fit
"The Mark of Gideon" has an empty replica enterprise. Kirk and obligatory romantic interest are onboard most of the episode and Spock near the end.
"The Cage” the pilot episode which had no Kirk. Captain Pike is held against his will in an illusory world. Footage was reused in a later episode "The Minagerie” that did feature Kirk viewing the events of Pike’s mission.
In the Mark of Gideon it is a replica of the Enterprise that has been built on the planet and in The Cage / The Menagerie the aliens are directly interacting with the minds of those they are attempting to fool. So neither are using holodeck type technology.
The Spectre of the Gun which features the Gunfight at the OK Corral features a fake Western town which can disappear and reappear as the Melkonians wish. Is this some sort of holodeck technology they are using?
 

Trevp666

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I saw 'Mark of Gideon' just the other evening. And yes that is a replica, and the 'love interest' is the daughter of the ruler of the planet who has been put with Kirk deliberately so she can become infected with some deadly pathogen that Kirk carries but is immune to it's effects, so that the woman can go on to infect the rest of the population of the massively overcrowded planet, in a selfless effort to help her planet which has not known death for ages, or something like that.
But no, no holodeck there.

Both 'The Cage' and 'The Menagerie' use the same footage and the aliens are basically using some sort of 'mind control' which makes the subject believe their surroundings are that which is of the aliens willing. Due to Captain Pikes confinement to a wheelchair and his 'locked in' syndrome, Spock wants the Enterprise to take Pike back to the aliens so that they can use their abilities to help Pike. Or something like that.
But again no, no holodeck there.

'The Spectre of the Gun' is an interesting one because that seems to be some kind of constructed reality which is created by the Melkonians, and it exists only for the purposes of 'testing' the morality of the crew members. Scenery and items within the 'wild west town' are both 'real' to our crew, but also imaginary, as they are being projected onto the minds of Kirk et al - it is only real if they believe it to be real, hence how Chekov is shot and killed by a bullet, and yet other devices created by Spock fail to work.
The denouement happens at the end when our crew find themselves all fit and well (including Chekov) and back aboard the Enterprise, with the Melkonians questioning their actions.
Or something like that.
But again, no holodeck.

Then we have 'The City on the edge of Forever', which is the famous episode with Joan Collins, in which Bones accidentally injects himself with an overdose of 'cordrazine' (?) and beams down to planet and goes through some sort of portal that sends him back in time to Earth in 1930, with Kirk and Spock following him through. That's a time travel episode though, about changing/maintaining the old time-line.
So no holodeck there either.

Then the episode with Mr Atoz - 'All Our Yesterdays' - in which there is another portal type of thing in which Mr Atoz sends people away from the dying planet back through time and space to any period and place of their choosing, but this goes a bit awry with Bones and Spock going back to an Ice-Age period on some alien planet, causing Spock to regress to a violent Vulcan stage of evolution (he hadn't been sufficiently prepared apparently), whereas Kirk finds himself sent back to something that resembles a 17th century England city.
After various encounters and action, they manage to find their ways back through the portal.
Or something like that.
But no holodeck.

There are indeed other episodes featuring similar 'plot devices' such as 'time travel', and 'portals' and 'alien mind control', but it would seem, no 'holodeck on the Enterprise'.
 

gordonrutter

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I saw 'Mark of Gideon' just the other evening. And yes that is a replica, and the 'love interest' is the daughter of the ruler of the planet who has been put with Kirk deliberately so she can become infected with some deadly pathogen that Kirk carries but is immune to it's effects, so that the woman can go on to infect the rest of the population of the massively overcrowded planet, in a selfless effort to help her planet which has not known death for ages, or something like that.
But no, no holodeck there.

Both 'The Cage' and 'The Menagerie' use the same footage and the aliens are basically using some sort of 'mind control' which makes the subject believe their surroundings are that which is of the aliens willing. Due to Captain Pikes confinement to a wheelchair and his 'locked in' syndrome, Spock wants the Enterprise to take Pike back to the aliens so that they can use their abilities to help Pike. Or something like that.
But again no, no holodeck there.

'The Spectre of the Gun' is an interesting one because that seems to be some kind of constructed reality which is created by the Melkonians, and it exists only for the purposes of 'testing' the morality of the crew members. Scenery and items within the 'wild west town' are both 'real' to our crew, but also imaginary, as they are being projected onto the minds of Kirk et al - it is only real if they believe it to be real, hence how Chekov is shot and killed by a bullet, and yet other devices created by Spock fail to work.
The denouement happens at the end when our crew find themselves all fit and well (including Chekov) and back aboard the Enterprise, with the Melkonians questioning their actions.
Or something like that.
But again, no holodeck.

Then we have 'The City on the edge of Forever', which is the famous episode with Joan Collins, in which Bones accidentally injects himself with an overdose of 'cordrazine' (?) and beams down to planet and goes through some sort of portal that sends him back in time to Earth in 1930, with Kirk and Spock following him through. That's a time travel episode though, about changing/maintaining the old time-line.
So no holodeck there either.

Then the episode with Mr Atoz - 'All Our Yesterdays' - in which there is another portal type of thing in which Mr Atoz sends people away from the dying planet back through time and space to any period and place of their choosing, but this goes a bit awry with Bones and Spock going back to an Ice-Age period on some alien planet, causing Spock to regress to a violent Vulcan stage of evolution (he hadn't been sufficiently prepared apparently), whereas Kirk finds himself sent back to something that resembles a 17th century England city.
After various encounters and action, they manage to find their ways back through the portal.
Or something like that.
But no holodeck.

There are indeed other episodes featuring similar 'plot devices' such as 'time travel', and 'portals' and 'alien mind control', but it would seem, no 'holodeck on the Enterprise'.
Agreed. No holodeck on the Enterprise, not until the cartoon. However the poster of the question was convinced they had seen the holodeck in the series and a half remembered Spectre of the Gun could be the prompt for that memory.
 

Xanatic*

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In the Squire of Gothos episode they are in a kind of simulation of Napoleon-era Earth.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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I know there was a phaser shooting range on Picard's TNG Enterprise.
Was there anything similar in TOS, so Kirk and Spock could practice their shooting skills against simulated targets?

phaser.JPG
 

Trevp666

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the poster of the question
I was the poster of the question, lol.
And my memory of seeing a holodeck in TOS is basically Kirk and Spock, having a discussion about 'going to the holodeck' and then being in a scene in which they are walking closely together with their tricorders out, firstly inside an area which appears to be part of 'engineering', and that then changes into the typical 'alien planet forest' with a load of tropical plants around them.
Or something like that.
 

gordonrutter

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I was the poster of the question, lol.
And my memory of seeing a holodeck in TOS is basically Kirk and Spock, having a discussion about 'going to the holodeck' and then being in a scene in which they are walking closely together with their tricorders out, firstly inside an area which appears to be part of 'engineering', and that then changes into the typical 'alien planet forest' with a load of tropical plants around them.
Or something like that.
Oops!

There’s a Dr Who story The Nightmare of Eden where there is a viewer which projects it’s location onto a wall and you can walk into it (it’s not holographic it’s real and is used for drug smuggling). But this episode includes scenes of the Doctor and Romana walking through spaceship corridors talking about the projection device and then walking into the room and into the alien planet forest.

Really can’t think of anything Star Trek that matches your recollection.
 

Trevp666

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not until the cartoon
Now that has set me wondering.
I don't ever recall actually watching the animated Star Trek.....but I wonder if I did see one episode, as a child, and it happened to be one of the episodes which contained an early holodeck?
Maybe I was so unimpressed with the animation that it faded from memory but the idea of a holodeck being used remained??
 

gordonrutter

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Now that has set me wondering.
I don't ever recall actually watching the animated Star Trek.....but I wonder if I did see one episode, as a child, and it happened to be one of the episodes which contained an early holodeck?
Maybe I was so unimpressed with the animation that it faded from memory but the idea of a holodeck being used remained??
Here’s a description of the first appearance in the cartoon, they call it the rec room.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Practical_Joker
 

Trevp666

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Hmm...possibly...but not that plot line.
But that would be a likely candidate for me thinking that that a 'holodeck' had already been in use before it appeared in TNG.
 

ChasFink

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Being old enough to remember when Star Trek (they didn't call it TOS back then) was new, and being very familiar with every episode, I can confidently say there was no holodeck in that series. I kind of remember it was an idea that was kicked around by the writers, either during production or as speculation for a revival series - it may have even been mentioned in the writer's guide, which I have a copy of somewhere.

I always thought it odd that the holographic rec room, life support belts, etc. that were easy to do in a cartoon were absent in subsequent incarnations of the franchise. Maybe they found out they caused cancer. Also, the diversity of aliens in the crew suggested in TAS was hinted at in later shows, but never done very well until Discovery, which takes place before the very human TOS. The on-again off-again canonicity of TAS, along with complex storylines and changing production values across all the Trek shows and movies, has created major continuity problems.
 

Lb8535

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Being old enough to remember when Star Trek (they didn't call it TOS back then) was new, and being very familiar with every episode, I can confidently say there was no holodeck in that series. I kind of remember it was an idea that was kicked around by the writers, either during production or as speculation for a revival series - it may have even been mentioned in the writer's guide, which I have a copy of somewhere.

I always thought it odd that the holographic rec room, life support belts, etc. that were easy to do in a cartoon were absent in subsequent incarnations of the franchise. Maybe they found out they caused cancer. Also, the diversity of aliens in the crew suggested in TAS was hinted at in later shows, but never done very well until Discovery, which takes place before the very human TOS. The on-again off-again canonicity of TAS, along with complex storylines and changing production values across all the Trek shows and movies, has created major continuity problems.
And really - the "aliens transport them to a different environment" plot is handy because the ever-cash-strapped program got to get the crew out of the ship and use sets and costumes that were in storage. Western, Nazi's, (although Nazi aliens must have been quite a challenge) ,Chicago gangsters. Even DS9 made really brilliant use of what I guess was in-stock 40's stuff.
 

Stormkhan

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Same plot-device as "wormhole/alien power sends ship/selected crew into a parallel universe kinda-thing". Remember the ST:NG officers being "taken" to 19th Century Earth, meeting Mark Twain?
The holodeck was great escapism - for both the crew and for the scriptwriters. Both plot-devices were used for the same reasons as ST:TOS used the God-like alien beings schtick.
 

Cochise

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They are showing Star Trek - the Original Series again on Horror Channel. I've forgotten how brilliant it was given budget limitations and the available technology. As a teenager I really thought that the future was going to be something like that.
 

Mythopoeika

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They are showing Star Trek - the Original Series again on Horror Channel. I've forgotten how brilliant it was given budget limitations and the available technology. As a teenager I really thought that the future was going to be something like that.
It's been repeated about 3 times recently on Horror Channel. It's definitely worth watching again.
 

Analogue Boy

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I’ve started watching Star Trek again on Netflix. Interesting to see the show finding the way. Shatner‘s attitude as ‘Dad‘ to Charlie who develops a Bum slapping fixation on Yeoman Rand is now weirdly strange to us viewing from the future as other concepts from the future would appear to us in the here and now.
 
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