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ChasFink

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It was about as subtle as a pickaxe but was considered a radical story and script at the time.
Perhaps by some. As a kid I spotted the left/right "difference" right away and remember it being rather stupid and heavy-handed at the same time. Of course, the poor production values of that episode, including unnecessary rapid zoom in-and-out to create tension, didn't help.

I remember Lincoln apologising for using the word, and Uhura responding that humanity has outgrown being afraid of words.
And yet we worry so much these days about the words, and not the intent of the speaker. It seems all society is in Lincoln's uncomfortable position, worried that we will suffer the consequences of insulting somebody when we have no intent to do so. Personally, I prefer Lenny Bruce's take on racial epithets, even as I do "watch my language" to avoid hurting anyone. If you disagree with me - and you are more than welcome to have that opinion - or otherwise don't like to hear "bad words", don't listen. (The audio is better in the dramatized version that comes after.)

 

Lb8535

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Perhaps by some. As a kid I spotted the left/right "difference" right away and remember it being rather stupid and heavy-handed at the same time. Of course, the poor production values of that episode, including unnecessary rapid zoom in-and-out to create tension, didn't help.


And yet we worry so much these days about the words, and not the intent of the speaker. It seems all society is in Lincoln's uncomfortable position, worried that we will suffer the consequences of insulting somebody when we have no intent to do so. Personally, I prefer Lenny Bruce's take on racial epithets, even as I do "watch my language" to avoid hurting anyone. If you disagree with me - and you are more than welcome to have that opinion - or otherwise don't like to hear "bad words", don't listen. (The audio is better in the dramatized version that comes after.)

I didn't say it was interesting, even then I thought the program was pretty leaden, but the message was unusual for a SF program of the time. Their many stabs for womens' equality were also leaden but nice to see they tried. Lenny Bruce was unique - but yes I generally use the policy that I may not understand why my word choice makes someone unhappy but I will try to avoid creating unhappiness on the basis that I'm learning something by it.
 

Analogue Boy

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Perhaps by some. As a kid I spotted the left/right "difference" right away and remember it being rather stupid and heavy-handed at the same time. Of course, the poor production values of that episode, including unnecessary rapid zoom in-and-out to create tension, didn't help.


And yet we worry so much these days about the words, and not the intent of the speaker. It seems all society is in Lincoln's uncomfortable position, worried that we will suffer the consequences of insulting somebody when we have no intent to do so. Personally, I prefer Lenny Bruce's take on racial epithets, even as I do "watch my language" to avoid hurting anyone. If you disagree with me - and you are more than welcome to have that opinion - or otherwise don't like to hear "bad words", don't listen. (The audio is better in the dramatized version that comes after.)

Sorry. What has all this to do with Star Trek?
 

ChasFink

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Riddle me this, Captain Kirk: What's black and white and racist all over? :confused::thought:
 

charliebrown

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It is well documented that William Shatner was an ego driven SOB on the set of Star Trek.

Shatner pissed off about every one on the set.

George Takei, Michelle Nichols, Leonard Nimoy, and James Doohan were all mad at Shatner.

In fact, James Doohan was a War World II fighter pilot and he was not afraid of Shatner, and told him off several times.

Shatner and Nimoy only made up when Nimoy was on his death bed.

George Takei claims he will never forgive Shatner.
 

Trevp666

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marhawkman

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I would have expected that - whenever you see the radio operator in a WWII movie on a ship he's drenched with water and trying to keep the equipment working But on TOS whenever they had to try varying the wavelength or cleaning up the signal it seemed to be Spock who did it.
Yeah, but, Spock's gimmick was that he was almost always the smartest man in the room. His actual job was second in command, and that often meant doing everyone's job better than they did. which was kinda weird, and apparently had to do with behind the scenes BS.
 

Lb8535

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Yeah, but, Spock's gimmick was that he was almost always the smartest man in the room. His actual job was second in command, and that often meant doing everyone's job better than they did. which was kinda weird, and apparently had to do with behind the scenes BS.
The simpler explanation is that there is very little to interest an audience in the actual jobs of leadership - delegation, encouragement - and much more to amuse the audience in seeing the guy with the second billing and the pointy ears doing science in a dramatic situation.
 
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Lb8535

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The simpler explanation is that there is very little to interest an audience in the actual jobs of leadership - delegation, encouragement - and much more to amuse the audience in seeing they guy with the second billing and the pointy ears doing science in a dramatic situation.
And on the same note, the captain the second and the chief doc would never be sent on a reconnaissance mission in reality -- it would all be people whose first name is "lieutenant." But really boring hour-long TV.
 

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And on the same note, the captain the second and the chief doc would never be sent on a reconnaissance mission in reality -- it would all be people whose first name is "lieutenant." But really boring hour-long TV.
This got done differently in later series, but in TOS there were several where Kirk did things WAY too risky for an actual commanding officer. Sometimes this got lampshaded as Kirk being reckless, but sometimes it was just dumb. Also the RW reason was apparently Shat's ego.
 

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This got done differently in later series, but in TOS there were several where Kirk did things WAY too risky for an actual commanding officer. Sometimes this got lampshaded as Kirk being reckless, but sometimes it was just dumb. Also the RW reason was apparently Shat's ego.
Shatner's ego is well known, but the basic reason for the story arc in broadcast TV is to keep the watchers watching for the commercials and the ratings, which govern how much the stations can charge for the commercials. In those days, the leads had the face time all the time.
 

charliebrown

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Rumor has it that when Nimoy start to receive more fan mail than Shatner, that is when it got bad between the two of them.
 

ramonmercado

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Get yer Phaser Rifle!

The only Star Trek phaser rifle ever made is up for auction. Starting bid: $250,000​

phaser.jpg
Imaged by Heritage Auctions, HA.com
The opening bid on the mind-bendingly gorgeous Star Trek phaser rifle at Heritage Auctions is $250,000. I think it will go for much more.
Description:

The phaser rifle from the second pilot of Star Trek's original series, September 1966's "Where No Man Has Gone Before," was designed by The Game of Life's creator Reuben Klamer, who died at 99 on Sept. 14.
The long, stylish weapon made its debut in the episode about a man named Gary Mitchell, played by Gary Lockwood, rendered a god by a blast of radiation at the galaxy's edge.
In the episode, Spock (Leonard Nimoy) secures the weapon to transport Mitchell to a planet where he's to be stranded. But in the end, it's Mitchell's best friend, Captain James T. Kirk (William Shatner), who uses the phaser rifle to topple a mountain of rocks beneath which the godlike Gary is buried. Mitchell – and the phaser rifle – would never be seen again, though the weapon was used in myriad early promo photos for the nascent series that survives today in myriad televised and cinematic iterations.
Azarian has long possessed one of the galaxy's finest Trek collections, including the uniforms worn by Kirk, Spock, Dr. Leonard McCoy, Lt. Uhura, Scotty and Mr. Chekov on television and in 1979's Star Trek: The Motion Picture. He counts among his pieces a wrist communicator that made its one and only appearance in The Motion Picture, as well as the miniature of the Tholian ship from the third-season episode "The Tholian Web." All of those pieces, and myriad others beamed aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise during its ongoing mission to explore strange new worlds, are featured in this auction.
But the phaser rifle was a Holy Grail item for Azarian, who didn't even think it existed – until it appeared at auction in 2013.

 

ChasFink

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The only Star Trek phaser rifle ever made is up for auction. Starting bid: $250,000
It may be the only one used on the show, but memory alpha says official replicas were made some years later for Star Trek exhibits. I believe this design was originally meant to also be used in somewhat faithful-looking toys, but that went nowhere when Roddenberry decided such a large weapon wasn't really necessary in the show. Most actual Star Trek toys of the period were not particularly faithful, with many products having no relation to the show at all except in branding.
 

GNC

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Wow, that season 2 finale of Lower Decks was quite exciting. Ended on a proper cliffhanger, too, so they must be confident of being recommissioned. And Rutherford gets a mystery in his memory banks - proper season to season arc. This is definitely the best Trek show for a long while. But still not very funny.
 

GNC

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This is kind of ridiculous, but if you sort of wondered what the significance of Captain Gomez was, this explains all:
Article

I have no memory of this TNG character, but she was in the first Borg episode, so was understandably overshadowed. Nice callback/obscure reference to keep the hardcore fans happy. I suppose LD is the most TNG show we've had for years.
 

marhawkman

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This is kind of ridiculous, but if you sort of wondered what the significance of Captain Gomez was, this explains all:
Article

I have no memory of this TNG character, but she was in the first Borg episode, so was understandably overshadowed. Nice callback/obscure reference to keep the hardcore fans happy. I suppose LD is the most TNG show we've had for years.
She was also in the Pakled episode.... her only two appearances.

Also I pondered something... "Why Captain Freeman day?" Then it hit me. Captain Picard Day was part of the Pegasus episode... where Picard A: reminisces about back when he was a lower decker, and B: blatantly violates the Treaty of Algeron just to spite Commander Sirol. We don't see on screen the fallout of THAT, but it's implied that Picard could get court martialed for it. Oh and C: Picard violated the Treaty of Algeron by installing an experimental cloaking device on the USS Enterprise... kinda like how Freeman modified the Cerritos.

Hmmmm also... the guy who played Sirol is not only still alive but still working on Star Trek projects! Maybe if they need a named Romulan Admiral?
 

marhawkman

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And unrelated to that, I came across this article recently:
http://harlanellison.com/review/forever.htm

I'd known for a while that the Guardian of Forever episode had created a feud of sorts between Roddenberry and the original writer(Harlan Ellison), but... Never read a proper explanation of how/why/what was actually changed. And.... they were both wrong IMO. Ellison has been quoted as saying that his original idea was before the "personality" of TOS had been established, and thus wasn't breaking canon, but... it was this "personality" that was why Roddenberry re-wrote everything!

In the end Ellison had a fundamentally different idea as to what Star Trek should be. And that was WhY the script had to get changed so much.
 

Lb8535

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And unrelated to that, I came across this article recently:
http://harlanellison.com/review/forever.htm

I'd known for a while that the Guardian of Forever episode had created a feud of sorts between Roddenberry and the original writer(Harlan Ellison), but... Never read a proper explanation of how/why/what was actually changed. And.... they were both wrong IMO. Ellison has been quoted as saying that his original idea was before the "personality" of TOS had been established, and thus wasn't breaking canon, but... it was this "personality" that was why Roddenberry re-wrote everything!

In the end Ellison had a fundamentally different idea as to what Star Trek should be. And that was WhY the script had to get changed so much.
I'm afraid that Ellison had the delusion that his script was art. TV episode scripts are completely subservient to other needs of the show - actors paraphrase, directors cut for time and pacing, producers change stories if the episode is over budget and there are no more funds for special effects or charming aliens. I thought that particular episode was very pretentious, and I bet that's after Roddenberry ticked Ellison off by adjusting it as needed.
 

marhawkman

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I'm afraid that Ellison had the delusion that his script was art. TV episode scripts are completely subservient to other needs of the show - actors paraphrase, directors cut for time and pacing, producers change stories if the episode is over budget and there are no more funds for special effects or charming aliens. I thought that particular episode was very pretentious, and I bet that's after Roddenberry ticked Ellison off by adjusting it as needed.
A quick summary of what got changed:
The reason for the entire incident was massively reworked. Instead of McCoy going temporarily insane, it was a never-before heard of crewman who had been selling futuristic narcotics on board the ship. And his reason for jumping in the time portal was an attempt to escape being punished for his crimes.

Wonky part: the original reason for beaming down was that Kirk was going to leave him stranded on an uninhabited planet as a sort of improvised death sentence. Then they realize that there's funky ancient ruins near where they dropped him. One of Ellison's revised drafts changed this to the guy beaming himself down to get off the ship.

Guardians; the basic Guardian of Forever concept was in the original. However, there were FOUR aspects in the original: A; the massive ancient city, B: the time portal, C: the nowhere to be seen unbelievably ancient race who created the portal, and D: guardians who watched over the portal and operated it. Yeah, instead of an incredibly confusing to talk to AI, it had a group of even more confusing living being who had seemingly gone half-mad from living so long they don't even remember how old they are.

Side note: in the original the titular city was not supposed to be 'ruined"(old and dilapidated) but rather "runed"(old and decorated with writing). This was because the guardians live there.... and... who knows who else.(no one actually looks around)

Missing section: in the original, just after the timeline is wrecked, Kirk tries to beam up to the Enterprise and finds himself on board a vessel run by pirates... however the tech used is so similar Kirk was able to remotely activate the transporter to automatically beam him up, then Janice Rand has to hot wire the teleporter to beam Kirk and Spock back down.

WTF plot twist: Edith Keeler's role in the original was in many ways the same, but in some ways completely weird. In both, Kirk gets romantic with her, and in both, it's her non-death that changes the timeline. However, in the original, Kirk and Spock fumble through figuring out what to do based on some weird prophecy the Guardians give them. the televised version has Spock look up Edith in a database and realize she's supposed to be dead. Also, the original had no explanation for why that guy who was a drug dealer and murderer SAVED her. Also... in the original, the timeline restoration was a complete rug-pull. Kirk and Spock at no point had any inkling her death would fix things. Then she dies and Kirk is confused and sad. It didn't even explain it after she died. Instead Kirk sits around pondering the bizarre cruelty of fate.

double WTF: Oh also in the original there was a third use of the portal. This third use was to non-execute the bad guy by throwing him into some sort of infinite death time loop.

So over all, as a stand alone sci-fi story it'd have been great... but as a Star Trek story? not so much.
 

Lb8535

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A quick summary of what got changed:
The reason for the entire incident was massively reworked. Instead of McCoy going temporarily insane, it was a never-before heard of crewman who had been selling futuristic narcotics on board the ship. And his reason for jumping in the time portal was an attempt to escape being punished for his crimes.

Wonky part: the original reason for beaming down was that Kirk was going to leave him stranded on an uninhabited planet as a sort of improvised death sentence. Then they realize that there's funky ancient ruins near where they dropped him. One of Ellison's revised drafts changed this to the guy beaming himself down to get off the ship.

Guardians; the basic Guardian of Forever concept was in the original. However, there were FOUR aspects in the original: A; the massive ancient city, B: the time portal, C: the nowhere to be seen unbelievably ancient race who created the portal, and D: guardians who watched over the portal and operated it. Yeah, instead of an incredibly confusing to talk to AI, it had a group of even more confusing living being who had seemingly gone half-mad from living so long they don't even remember how old they are.

Side note: in the original the titular city was not supposed to be 'ruined"(old and dilapidated) but rather "runed"(old and decorated with writing). This was because the guardians live there.... and... who knows who else.(no one actually looks around)

Missing section: in the original, just after the timeline is wrecked, Kirk tries to beam up to the Enterprise and finds himself on board a vessel run by pirates... however the tech used is so similar Kirk was able to remotely activate the transporter to automatically beam him up, then Janice Rand has to hot wire the teleporter to beam Kirk and Spock back down.

WTF plot twist: Edith Keeler's role in the original was in many ways the same, but in some ways completely weird. In both, Kirk gets romantic with her, and in both, it's her non-death that changes the timeline. However, in the original, Kirk and Spock fumble through figuring out what to do based on some weird prophecy the Guardians give them. the televised version has Spock look up Edith in a database and realize she's supposed to be dead. Also, the original had no explanation for why that guy who was a drug dealer and murderer SAVED her. Also... in the original, the timeline restoration was a complete rug-pull. Kirk and Spock at no point had any inkling her death would fix things. Then she dies and Kirk is confused and sad. It didn't even explain it after she died. Instead Kirk sits around pondering the bizarre cruelty of fate.

double WTF: Oh also in the original there was a third use of the portal. This third use was to non-execute the bad guy by throwing him into some sort of infinite death time loop.

So over all, as a stand alone sci-fi story it'd have been great... but as a Star Trek story? not so much.
Yeah. That's a full-length movie. And that's why most shows have staff writers.
 

marhawkman

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Yeah. That's a full-length movie. And that's why most shows have staff writers.
Also the original version had a few really stupid things. Like yes, the Federation HAS done the thing of dumping people on abandoned worlds. But not as a solo punishment OR as execution. It happened in Way to Eden, because those guys just really wanted to live there. It happened to Khan because it was a mass exile, and wasn't meant as a death sentence. The desert world seen in ST2 was after a major catastrophe massively changed the environment and there was years for things to degrade. Khan wasn't sent there to DIE.

So an execution by dumping the guy on a random dust ball? makes no sense.

Also I mentioned earlier the Edith thing. Her role in the original made little sense. Why does Kirk romance her? Even IF he thinks saving her is his goal, romance is guaranteed to ruin the timeline. Why? Also in the original it didn't even try to explain why saving Edith doomed the Federation. Kirk developed an emotional attachment in the televised version but to a lesser degree.
 

Lb8535

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Also the original version had a few really stupid things. Like yes, the Federation HAS done the thing of dumping people on abandoned worlds. But not as a solo punishment OR as execution. It happened in Way to Eden, because those guys just really wanted to live there. It happened to Khan because it was a mass exile, and wasn't meant as a death sentence. The desert world seen in ST2 was after a major catastrophe massively changed the environment and there was years for things to degrade. Khan wasn't sent there to DIE.

So an execution by dumping the guy on a random dust ball? makes no sense.

Also I mentioned earlier the Edith thing. Her role in the original made little sense. Why does Kirk romance her? Even IF he thinks saving her is his goal, romance is guaranteed to ruin the timeline. Why? Also in the original it didn't even try to explain why saving Edith doomed the Federation. Kirk developed an emotional attachment in the televised version but to a lesser degree.
Well think I mentioned that I thought Ellison was a lousy writer to start with. Makes no sense at all even leaving ST out, the idea about leaving a guy on a bad planet is just silly. To start with it would get all the officers involved court-marshaled. As I remember saving Edith stopped her peace effort which permitted WW2 to happen which pushed earth toward the ST time line and set the stage for the federation. Or something like that.
 

marhawkman

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Well think I mentioned that I thought Ellison was a lousy writer to start with. Makes no sense at all even leaving ST out, the idea about leaving a guy on a bad planet is just silly. To start with it would get all the officers involved court-marshaled. As I remember saving Edith stopped her peace effort which permitted WW2 to happen which pushed earth toward the ST time line and set the stage for the federation. Or something like that.
The filmed episode had it that her anti-war efforts caused the war to be so politically unpopular that the outcome of WW2 pushed human history in a different direction... or something..
 

Lb8535

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The filmed episode had it that her anti-war efforts caused the war to be so politically unpopular that the outcome of WW2 pushed human history in a different direction... or something..
Sorry I meant sopping her death stopped her peace efforts. It's a on-hour program, it needs a 10-second plot that a nine-year-old can explain.
 
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