Star Trek

marhawkman

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Sorry I meant sopping her death stopped her peace efforts. It's a on-hour program, it needs a 10-second plot that a nine-year-old can explain.
Well, where this varied in the original plot? it wasn't even explained. She's a character who talks about that stuff, but it's never said that that was WHY.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Well think I mentioned that I thought Ellison was a lousy writer to start with. Makes no sense at all even leaving ST out, the idea about leaving a guy on a bad planet is just silly. To start with it would get all the officers involved court-marshaled. As I remember saving Edith stopped her peace effort which permitted WW2 to happen which pushed earth toward the ST time line and set the stage for the federation. Or something like that.

Not a huge fan of ST so can't really comment on the episode, (I've seen it though), However, Ellison probably wanted to use the concept of 'marooning" which was a thing practiced occasionally by naval and pirate forces for several hundred years.

Ben Gunn is the most famous in literature.

From just having a google it seems Ellison wanted the episode to reflect a proper military ship with some of its crew up to no good, which Roddenberry obviously rejected. Scotty dealing drugs...:hahazebs:

Ellison could start a fight in an empty room and would have certainly considered his work as art as he hated the term Science Fiction Writer. Also at the time TV shows such as The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits could be considered art.

Ellison had a considerable body of well-received work and won numerous awards. However, it was his way or the highway and that just would not have worked with a show of recurring characters. Also as you say the impact on the budget was enormous and Ellison was just plain awful to be around sometimes.
 
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marhawkman

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Not a huge fan of ST so can't really comment on the episode, (I've seen it though), However, Ellison probably wanted to use the concept of 'marooning" which was a thing practiced occasionally by naval and pirate forces for several hundred years.

Ben Gunn is the most famous in literature.

From just having a google it seems Ellison wanted the episode to reflect a proper military ship with some of its crew up to no good, which Roddenberry obviously rejected. Scotty dealing drugs...:hahazebs:

Ellison could start a fight in an empty room and would have certainly considered his work as art as he hated the term Science Fiction Writer. Also at the time TV shows such as The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits could be considered art.

Ellison had a considerable body of well-received work and won numerous awards. However, it was his way or the highway and that just would not have worked with a show of recurring characters. Also as you say the impact on the budget was enormous and Ellison was just plain awful to be around sometimes.
Well you could read this: http://harlanellison.com/review/forever.htm (Scotty wasn't even in Ellison's first draft)

But yeah, Ellison was a great writer, but... he'd reached a point where he was cocky about that.

One interview I read with him he talked about how he'd worked to define the characters on board the Enterprise. Yet.... the characterization is part of what was different in his initial story draft. Ellison disagreed with the show producers what the show should be like.

Yeah, Roddenberry screwed him over. But... join the club. :/
 

ChasFink

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It's been years since I read Ellison's version, but...

Star Trek was pitched as both "Wagon Train to the stars" and "Hornblower in space". These concepts remained in even the final version of the show's writer's guide.

The first concept allowed for "lower decks" stories where the starring cast had little involvement. As the show developed, however, the success of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic, Shatner's ego, Nimoy's popularity, and other factors made those stories unlikely. Still, the style of the show was quite fluid early on, and the potential for a kind of anthology show with recurring characters was there.

The second concept was based on the idea that communication with Starfleet Command was often impossible without huge delays, making the Captain essentially autonomous. This idea was virtually ignored almost from the start, with communication happening at whatever speed the plot demanded, instantaneous two-way conversations (or the appearance of same) occurring frequently, and much downplaying of the huge expenditure of resources needed to increase transmission speed.

Ellison began writing in March 1966, long before the series was on the air, and submitted his final re-write that December. At that time only 12 episodes had been shown, and even if Ellison had access to ongoing production - which I doubt - the tight production turnaround at that point wouldn't have revealed much more about the direction of the series than just watching it on TV.

Given all this, I don't blame Ellison for wanting to help steer the development of the characters and the show, including Kirk handing out (final) frontier justice. Heck, if he was successful, Ellison could have become a staff writer. It would have been a different series, but it might have been a good one. Roddenberry and his team had other ideas. I think it's only because of Ellison's well-known crankiness that the feud ever happened.
 

GNC

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Ellison could start a fight in an empty room and would have certainly considered his work as art as he hated the term Science Fiction Writer.

I don't think he minded being called a Science Fiction Writer, what he minded was being called a "Sci-Fi Writer". He hated that abbreviation with a vengeance. It was invented by Forrest J. Ackerman, who has since been exposed as less sci-fi superfan and more absolute creep, so maybe Harlan was on to something.

I did read Ellison liked to call himself a "Futurist" at times. Best not to go into what other people liked to call him.
 

ChasFink

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Ellison definitely detested "sci-fi", which he associated with low-quality product, like the worst of those 1950s monster from space movies. But I also think he disliked being pigeonholed as a science fiction writer, since he did also write outside that genre.

Ackerman apparently was the epitome of the sci-fi nerd boy, including his immature and creepy attitude towards attractive women. I remember once seeing a TV show where the young female host, apparently being warned ahead of time, said she brought along her strong male friend when visiting Ackerman because she was scared of all the old horror movie props he collected. Uh...yeah.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I don't think he minded being called a Science Fiction Writer, what he minded was being called a "Sci-Fi Writer". He hated that abbreviation with a vengeance. It was invented by Forrest J. Ackerman, who has since been exposed as less sci-fi superfan and more absolute creep, so maybe Harlan was on to something.

I did read Ellison liked to call himself a "Futurist" at times. Best not to go into what other people liked to call him.

Ellison threatened a reporter that he would "nail his pets head to a table" if he called Ellison a Science Fiction writer.

All those writers hated the Sci-fi thing Brian Aldiss was another one.


Possibly the info was wrong and it was Sci-fi.

Edit GNC you were right. My memory is going.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/...olific-science-fiction-writer-dies-at-84.html
 
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Mythopoeika

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Ellison threatened a reporter that he would "nail his pets head to a table" if he called Ellison a Science Fiction writer.
I think he may have preferred the term 'speculative fiction', like Vonnegut did.
 

ChasFink

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I think Ellison felt "science fiction writer" put the author in a ghetto - a sentiment that was going around at the time - meaning if you wrote SF you weren't good enough to do anything else. It was separate from his hate for "sci-fi".
 

Mythopoeika

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I think Ellison felt "science fiction writer" put the author in a ghetto - a sentiment that was going around at the time - meaning if you wrote SF you weren't good enough to do anything else. It was separate from his hate for "sci-fi".
There was some truth in that. Science Fiction was poorly regarded by the literary establishment. I remember having a discussion about this with my English teacher at school. The teacher was a snob who had a complete disregard for the whole genre.
 

cycleboy2

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I mentioned Harlan Ellison in an earlier post (1374) and I have had the pleasure to have been called a 'cool m*****f*****' by him over the phone. It was clearly used as a term of praise. He was certainly spiky – he made an international call to berate the magazine I was working on but, as a longtime Ellison fan, I was able to talk him down. Libel case averted. Phew!
 

Mythopoeika

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I mentioned Harlan Ellison in an earlier post (1374) and I have had the pleasure to have been called a 'cool m*****f*****' by him over the phone. It was clearly used as a term of praise. He was certainly spiky – he made an international call to berate the magazine I was working on but, as a longtime Ellison fan, I was able to talk him down. Libel case averted. Phew!
I wish I had interesting stuff like that to tell.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I mentioned Harlan Ellison in an earlier post (1374) and I have had the pleasure to have been called a 'cool m*****f*****' by him over the phone. It was clearly used as a term of praise. He was certainly spiky – he made an international call to berate the magazine I was working on but, as a longtime Ellison fan, I was able to talk him down. Libel case averted. Phew!

brilliant.
 

Yithian

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A 'Star Trek' rough work by Frank Frazetta (1978).

FDT20TeXIAIzHrI.jpeg.jpg


Anybody familiar Frazetta's work could have told you this from the iconic poses—they're a thread that runs through much of his work.
 

GNC

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Would it have killed him to have Uhura standing up, though? He does this in every picture!
 

Mythopoeika

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Would it have killed him to have Uhura standing up, though? He does this in every picture!
It's the classic old world thing - Frazetta was an old-fashioned type who depicted men defending their women.
 

GNC

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It's the classic old world thing - Frazetta was an old-fashioned type who depicted men defending their women.

I know it was his trademark, but he always did it and it makes his artwork very repetitive to look at. I suppose it saved hiring models.
 

Mythopoeika

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I know it was his trademark, but he always did it and it makes his artwork very repetitive to look at. I suppose it saved hiring models.
Yep, it did get a bit samey.
 

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It's the classic old world thing - Frazetta was an old-fashioned type who depicted men defending their women.

Correct: It's a genre trope--since heavily parodied.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegCling

See, for instance, Boris Vallejo:

images-w1400.jpgimages-w1400-2.jpg

Or in more recently:

81e1NiRim8L._AC_SL1200_.jpg81IeCHFLdvL._AC_SL1338_.jpg

Personally, if I were in the process of trying to calm my inner fears and steel myself for some coming heroics, I'd find it really distracting to have a quivering chick clinging to my thigh.
 

Mythopoeika

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Correct: It's a genre trope--since heavily parodied.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegCling

See, for instance, Boris Vallejo:

View attachment 47690View attachment 47692

Or in more recently:

View attachment 47693View attachment 47694

Personally, if I were in the process of trying to calm my inner fears and steel myself for some coming heroics, I'd find it really distracting to have a quivering chick clinging to my thigh.
Yeah, Boris pretty much emulated Frazetta in many ways. Very similar painters.
 

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Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain .. a mountain ,,

 

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On an Internet chat room I frequent, there's a fellow who claims to work in Hollywood arranging music, and I have no reason to doubt him.

He said he once did some work for Leonard Nimoy and went to his house. Spock had a model railroad track mounted about 1 ft from the ceiling, that was routed through the entire first floor. The little train just cruised around the house endlessly.

And the stone wall around his front yard contained a brass plaque stating "Surviving trespassers will be prosecuted"
 
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