Stigmata

Daftbugger1

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
273
Reaction score
8
Points
49
I'm sure I saw on TV (or was it in FT?) recently that they've only found one body that had been crucified. Christ was very unusual that they took his body down. Mostly they were just left until they fell apart. Hence we don't quite know how they did it.

Is it my imagination, or did those pictures of stigmata in FT look suspisously like ciggie burns?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Islamic stigmata

Well. that with islamic stigmata does not ring right, sorry.
Wounds of Mohammad (PBUH)? What wounds of Mohammad (PBUH)?
They had a lot of battles, but I have never heard of
wounds that appear by themselves, on any believer. That would have gotten around.
Please more info.

sakina
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Are there any case's of unbelivers showing the signs of Stigmata? Also have proper scientific tests been done on those who claim to suffer from it?

I`d love to hear more of Escargot`s experience.
I second that! :)
 

Awestruck_

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Messages
103
Reaction score
3
Points
47
Originally posted by philippa bower

...The area around this blister is inflamed and the inflammation passes up the lymph vessels of my arm to form a red streak up the inside of my arm half way up to the elbow....

...I have been to the doctor and he says it is an alternative to a migraine....
:eek!!!!: I am a Christian, but I think the only miracle here is that you are still alive and kicking, philippa, (thank God). I am not in the medical field, but from personal experience what you are describing sounds exactly like blood poisoning. Which can easily be fatal. Please rush yourself to the emergency room next time it happens. DO NOT allow the red line to move past your elbow,(closer to your heart), under any circumstances.

A friend was in the hospital for two weeks with blood poisoning that developed from a small hand puncture over the course of just two days. She was not out of danger untill the second week! I was told that even while she was a patient in the hospital she could be lost if the infection reached her heart. I had never realized how serious blood poisoning could be before this.

I think your doctor must have been joking. Could this have been his humorous way of saying that he didn't know the cause of your recurring problem? I think this is perhaps the most likely conclusion. God bless
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Still NOT getting the Islamic stigmata thing, sorry. Does anyone have a link or something....???

And if they have only found one crucified body how do we all have so much information on how crucifixions occur? (Not us personallY!) I mean, I suppose there are written records, but, it seems such a little thing to place so much reliance on...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Phillipa - See A Doctor!!!

I've only just come in on this thread. But I agree with Awestruck - get a second opinion on those blisters damm quick. I've had a couple of relatives who've had septicaemia - my stepfather got it fron an infected blister on his hand and his temperture shot up to over 104F before the medics got it under control. My son has had it twice, from infected finger scratches - both times, the red line extended up the inside of his arm to the elbow, just as you describe, and he needed hospitalisation. Your doc sounds utterly utterly USELESS!!
 

Beakmoo

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Messages
2,972
Reaction score
169
Points
94
If Phillippa has had this twice a year for 35 years I don't think it could be anything life threatening. But I think she should get a second opinion anyway. I'd like to know why the doctor thinks this, did he look it up? Had he seen it before? Maybe it's more common than we think.
 

Awestruck_

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Messages
103
Reaction score
3
Points
47
beakboo said:
If Phillippa has had this twice a year for 35 years I don't think it could be anything life threatening. But I think she should get a second opinion anyway. I'd like to know why the doctor thinks this, did he look it up? Had he seen it before? Maybe it's more common than we think.
I think you're right about the second opinion beakboo. I won't go on and on, but if it is blood poisoning, and I don't know of anything else that has those same symptoms, it really can be life threatening. I would PM Phillippa but it's been disabled and I can't. One could have blood poisoning every day, and I suppose it wouldn't do any harm. It doesn't even hurt, (I've had it myself). But, my friend in hospital told me, should it reach the heart, there is nothing they can do. It only takes one time, so I hope Phillippa will read this and not take any chances.

My guess is that Phillippa doesn't get blood poisoning everytime this blister thing happens, and that the doctor in question never witnessed, or was told about the "red line" moving up from the wound. I hope so, otherwise I'd be concerned about his patients. That's all, sorry for the topic interruption. God bless
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Cross-shaped welts appear on priest's forehead

As posted in Ananova

Cross-shaped welts appear on priest's forehead

Bloody welts in the shape of a cross reportedly appeared on a priest's forehead as he was delivering a sermon at a mass in Zagreb.

The congregation at the Holy Mother of Freedom Church say the apparent stigmata appeared on the head of Father Zlatko Sudac as he was speaking to them on the evil of drug abuse among young people.

"This was a sign from God that young people need to return to the Church and leave drugs," said parish priest Petar Simic.

Father Sudac first displayed stigmata in May 1999, when a cross appeared on his forehead one week after the beatification of the famous Italian friar Padre Pio who was also said to have displayed stigmata.

The Vatican at the time said that the mark of the cross had appeared in "a way medical science could not explain".

Two years ago on the feast day of St. Francis of Assisi, marks also appeared on his wrists, feet and side.

Story filed: 10:39 Tuesday 1st October 2002
 

Melf

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
13
Points
69
what happens to people from other faiths who have developed "xtain stigmata" are they persuaded/pressured by the vatican to become catholics?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Nope. The Vatican don't like stigmatics, especially Catholic ones.
 

Melf

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
13
Points
69
they dont? wonder why? (if thats not a stupid question)
 

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
Its a complex dance - the Vatican like to hold the miracles at arms reach so they aren't tainted if it is shown to be a fake and they have quite elaborate procedures fo investigating these things (see the Miracles and Sainthood thread).

[edit: That thread is here:

.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13012 ]
Link is obsolete. The Current link is:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/miracles-canonisation.13012/


However, it really does suit them to have such miracles in their arsenal and they have been deployed tactically in certain situations (esp., in recent years in former Communist countries in Europe) to help advance the churches cause as such wonders punch right through to the same kind of appeal other Fortean phenomena have and they can provide the kernel of various cults).

Essentially they reap the rewards without coming across as too credulous and/or flawed in their judgement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Melf

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
13
Points
69
i see and thanks emps
 

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
No worries - there is an account in one of the books around here about a secret mummifaction process that took place in Italy so the saint could be 'deployed' to Poland. I'll see if I can dig it out tomorrow.

[edit: OK it was the Ukraine but the point stands ;)

I have continued this in a more appropriate thread:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=420585#post420585 ]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I find it quite amusing. The Catholic Church is probably the biggest bunch of sceptics under the sun. The irony is wonderful! :D

They just don't trust religious fanatics, as difficult to believe as that sounds. Stigmata and other miracles, while (previously) taken as evidence for sainthood in some cases, aren't actually anything to do with Faith. So I think it's because they don't want the stigmatic/miracle worker to become the focus of faith, rather than God. Miracles aren't performed by people; they are the work of God through people. That sort of thing. So it tends to muddy the waters.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'm back, baby!

Well, I think the Catholics and indeed, any other religious authorities have to be careful about what or who is associated with them - especially with that whole papal infallibility thing
 

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
From the March 2004 Skeptical Inquirer:

Investigative Files

The Stigmata of Lilian Bernas

Joe Nickell


Canadian Lilian Bernas claims to exhibit-"in a supernatural state"-the wounds of Christ. On March 1, 2002, I observed one of a series of Bernas's bleedings. It was the eleventh such event that "the Lord allows me to experience on the first Friday of the month," she told the audience, "with one more to come" (Bernas 2002). But was the event really supernatural or only a magic show?

......
The rest with photos at:
csicop.org/si/2004-03/i-files.html
Link is dead. The MIA webpage can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20040717005720/http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/i-files.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
I was just watching the "Stigmata: The Marks of God documentary on Discovery (first shown in 2000). Al very interesting stuff - they has Joe Nickell on but I think Ted Harrison ("Stigmata Expert") seemed to have the best take on it in that stigmatics are doing this not really from deception but as a way to share Christ's pain.

I believe this is his book:

Stigmata
A Medieval Mystery in a Modern Age
Ted Harrison

ISBN 0140252053 | 01 Mar 1996 | Penguin

A gift from God or the physical manifestation of excessive religious fervor and mental instability?

A ten-year-old black girl in California bled from her palms, feet, right side, and the middle of her forehead for nineteen days in 1972, until good Friday, when the bleeding stopped. A Washington, D.C., priest experienced spontaneous bleeding from his writsts, feet, and right side in 1991. Since St. Francis of Assisi in the thirteenth century, ordinary people have suffered spontaneous lesions and bleeding resembling the wounds received by Christ during the crucifixion. Until recently, the occurrences of this religious and medical phenomenon had been limited to European cultures, but more and more cases of stigmata are being reported in Latin America and the United States. Including a startling analysis of the socioeconomic conditions that might give rise to the emergence of stigmatics at the end of another millennium and interviews with a medical expert on stigmata, this intriguing and objective examination is one of the most controversial books about religious phenomena since Embraced by the Light.
www.penguinputnam.com/nf/Book/BookDispl ... 53,00.html

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140252053/
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140252053/

They also touched on how these marks can come about due to stress and for other psychological reasons. For more discussion of psychogenic purpura see the Physical Phenomena of Mysticism thread:
www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 918#421918

Another example:

Archer-Dubon C, Orozco-Topete R, Reyes-Gutiérrez E
Dos casos de púrpura sicogénica
Rev Invest Clin 1998; 50(2): 145-148.


Two cases of psychogenic purpura


ABSTRACT

Psychogenic purpura, also known as recurrent painful bruising or autoerythrocyte sensitization syndrome (Gardner-Diamond syndrome ) is usually associated with emotionally disturbed patients.

It is a troublesome entity for both patient and physician since extensive work -ups yield no diagnosis.

We describe two females in their early twenties with recurrent painful bruising and diverse accompanying symptoms which appeared after physical trauma.

One of the patients developed a bruise after intradermal injection of her own blood (with no reaction to saline injection).

One patient had a personality (borderline) disorder, the other a factitious disorder.

Punch biopsies revealed a perivascular inflammatory infiltrate, erythrocyte extravasation and no vasculitis.

Psychogenic hemorrhagic disorders are uncommon yet must be considered in the differential diagnosis of purpura.

Patients are usually young emotionally troubled females who present painful recurrent bruises on extremities frequently after trauma or surgery.

Autoimmune mechanisms and increased cutaneous fibrinolytic activity have been implicated, although further studies are needed.

Correct diagnosis is important to avoid aggressive and even mutilating treatments, and an adequate comprehension of these purpuras is important for the attending physician.

Key words: Purpura, Gardner-Diamond syndrome, painful bruising.
www.imbiomed.com/Innsz/Nnv50n2/english/Znn82-09.html

Ghosh S
Gardner diamond syndrome : psychogenic purpura.
Indian Journal of Dermatology.. 1996 Jan-Mar.; 41(1): 13
There was also some interesting footage of people developing marks under hypnosis.

So the truth probbaly lies somewhere in between (as always ;) ).
 

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
And what I found really interesting was where some fo the modern stigmatics adopt more of a UFO worldview showing how thinking and myths change (in muh the same way as the Appleton / space baby story resonates with the story of the Virgin Mary and related legends).

They showed two examples:

Maryce Rosely (sp?) who got her marks atfer visions invovling a beautiful strange descending from a cloud and kissing her on the cheek.

Giorgio Bongiovanni and ironically we are #1 for a search at Google for him:
www.forteantimes.com/gallery/stigmata.shtml
Link is dead. The MIA webpage and gallery photo can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050312025247/http://www.forteantimes.com/gallery/stigmata.shtml


and other photos here (might be unadvisable for the squeamish):
www.sm.fki.pl/bongiovanni.htm

He mixes Catholicism with Ufology and mixes the Virign Mary in with stories of space beings:

www.share-international.org/archives/ap ... coming.htm
http://theufoconnection.g-vision.com/stigmatist.shtml

There are accusations of him lifting stuff from Eugenio Siragusa:

www.edicolaweb.net/nonsoloufo/not_011e.htm

which, of course, takes us back to the dodgy photos of Jesus in FT181:

forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 930#331930
Link is obsolete. The current link is:

https://forums.forteana.org/posts/331930

Not much point to that ramble of mine but it does show the odd interconnections. ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mighty_Emperor

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
19,443
Reaction score
180
Points
129
Is this a bleeding miracle?

EXCLUSIVE
By JOE SPAGNOLO
19mar06

THE Catholic Church claims a modern-day miracle is unfolding in Rockingham.

It says that a 50-year-old father of three, whose identity is being kept secret, is displaying stigmata on his hands and feet – wounds that appear to be similar to those on the crucified body of Christ.

The Rev Father Finbarr Walsh told The Sunday Times this week that he had witnessed the phenomena, which lasted 24 hours and included visions of and messages from the Virgin Mary.

He said he had never seen such a thing in his 50 years as a priest, with the wounds appearing to be covered in blood.

He believed the stigmata was real, saying he had no reason to think the man was a fraud.

"I haven't come across anything like this before," Father Walsh said.

"I have seen the wounds. They are not fake. He is getting the wounds of Jesus on his hands and feet.

"You see them bleeding. When he has them, he is in great pain. But they disappear within 24 hours. It has to be a miracle.

"Who knows how it happens. You ask God how he does it."

There have been 500 reported stigmatics who have displayed wounds similar to those inflicted upon Jesus.

The first case was that of Archbishop Stephen Langton, of England, recorded in 1222.

St Francis of Assisi suffered wounds in La Verna, Italy, in 1224.

Catholic Archbishop Barry Hickey refused to speak to The Sunday Times this week about the incident. He said through a spokesman that he was aware of what was happening in Rockingham.

"He won't talk with anyone about it," spokesman Hugh Ryan said.

The Sunday Times contacted the man this week.

Identifying himself only as Ian, he said he had been asked by the Catholic Church not to speak to the media.

"I can't answer your questions. It's a humility thing and I have to be obedient to those who have said I can't talk about it," he said.

"Different things happen to people and they happen for a reason.

"Why they happen, we don't understand."

Asked if he was frightened by what was happening to him, he said: "No, why should I be?"

Father Walsh said the man had received hundreds of messages from the Virgin Mary.

She appeared to him on the eighth day of every month and sometimes more often.

"I have been there when he says he has seen Our Lady," Father Walsh said. "He is the only one who sees her. The only evidence is his word.

"I don't think he (is lying). He is a holy person."
Source
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
51,686
Reaction score
26,510
Points
309
Location
Eblana
Modern Mystic Mourned in Italy
http://www.zenit.org/article-27451?l=english

Witnesses Say Laywoman Bore Stigmata



By Jesús Colina

ROME, NOV. 5, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Thousands in Italy are mourning the death of a wife and mother of five, the founder of the Cenacles of Prayer, who is considered a modern mystic.

Six Italian bishops and more than 100 priests celebrated the funeral of Natuzza Evolo on Tuesday in Calabria. Some 30,000 mourners came to pay their respects.

"For us she is already a saint, as she is in paradise," said Bishop Luigi Renzo of Mileto in his homily.

According to the testimony of numerous persons who went to ask her for her prayers and advice, bleeding wounds would appear on her body during Lent for which no scientific justification was ever found.

It has been said that she often suffered the stigmata, and that she experienced moments of mystical rapture. The Italian bishops' Avvenire news reported that the first known time that this occurred, doctors spent seven hours trying to ascertain what was happening to her.

The most significant case was reported in 1944, when Evolo revealed that she had had a vision in which she was asked to build "a large house to alleviate the needs of young people, the sick and the needy, with a large church that is to be called 'Immaculate Heart of Mary, Refuge of Souls.'"

On May 13, 1987, the then Bishop Domenico Tarcisio Cortese of Mileto, approved the birth of an association, today a foundation, which took that name and which seeks, among other things, to carry out this work.

The funeral liturgy for Evolo, who died on Nov. 1 at 85, was celebrated outdoors in front of the construction works of that institution in Paravati, a small village near Mileto. When the news of her death was announced -- it was All Saints day -- the festive bells pealed.

"I am asked what the Church thinks of Mama Natuzza and the answer is in the participation in this ceremony of so many brother bishops," said Bishop Renzo in the funeral homily.

Together with the prelate on the altar, the five other bishops were the pastors of the Dioceses of Locri-Gerace, Catanzaro-Squillace, and Lamezia Terme, as well as two retired bishops.

Evolo, the wife of a carpenter and mother of five, experienced inexplicable phenomena starting in adolescence.

"They are very suggestive phenomena, one could even call it sensationalism, but these are marginal," Bishop Renzo suggested. "Natuzza is not great because of these phenomena, even if they are overwhelming. Natuzza is great because of her faith, her love, her total 'yes' to the suffering Jesus."

The prelate revealed in the homily that "Natuzza, woman of frail health but strong because of her faith, showed her courage and her greatness of spirit, above all at the moment of her death. At that moment, she witnessed to me and to all those who approached her bed of agony, her spiritual level and how her faith and love meant everything to her."
http://www.zenit.org/article-27451?l=english
 
Last edited by a moderator:

rynner2

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
55,238
Reaction score
9,119
Points
284
Today I have 'stigmata' resembling the little wounds left by the needle when you've had blood samples taken! But I haven't given any samples for months.

There are two pinpricks on the inside of the elbow of my right arm - the left arm is unmarked. They weren't there this morning when I showered, and I've been out much of the day since, with a top on since, despite the sun, it was chilly. But I can't remember banging or stabbing that arm, or doing anything else to create these little wounds.

(The day started off with some odd dreams shortly before I got up, but none of these related to giving blood samples, and some at least were triggered by stuff on the bedside radio.)

But I wonder if the marks relate to some blood samples I didn't give...
Last month the doc increased the dosage of my blood pressure medicine. He said a possible side-effect might be on kidney function, so he wanted me to book with the nurse after two weeks on the new dose for a blood test.

Well, things got busy in various ways, and I let it slip for a couple of weeks more, by which time I thought if the BP medicine dose wasn't right there'd be obvious symptoms, so I forgot about it. But then one w/e I did fall ill, but only on the last day of illness did I suspect it might be kidney related, so I stopped taking the BP pills. (I figured I'd rather take my chance with the BP!)

I haven't been back to see the doc (at my age there's not much they can do to cure you anyway), but I wonder if my 'stigmata' are psychosomatically induced by my sub-conconscious, dwelling on the missed blood test? (But if so, why not do the left arm as well..?)
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
43,453
Reaction score
34,726
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
...Or they could be insect bites...
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
21,037
Reaction score
29,547
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
This 2002 Fortean Times article surveyed some well-known stigmatics. The article was once available on the now-defunct FT article archive. Nowadays it can only be accessed via the Wayback Machine:
BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS

For nearly 20 years, a shy, middle-aged woman has had regular audiences with the Virgin Mary and changed her town’s fortunes. ROSALBA O'BRIEN reports on Gladys Motta, Argentina’s famous stigmatic while ENZO DAEDRO profiles stigmatics from Argentina, Cuba and Puerto Rico.
From FT 163 OCTOBER 2002

FULL ARTICLE:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050829125521/http://forteantimes.com/articles/163_stigmatics.shtml
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
32,247
Reaction score
38,814
Points
309
Location
HM The Tower of London
This has been described before on'ere.

I was out with my family in Wales, wandering around a farm/zoo place in the drizzle. We saw the llamas and the funny cows, and then the kids spotted a sheep stuck between a fence and a hedge. It was bleating and a larger sheep was bleating back. My kids were quite upset about it so we went off to find the farmer.

He said not to worry, the sheep would get out on its own. When we went back though it was still there and seemed more distressed than before.

By now my kids were crying and begging me to help the sheep. I decided to give it a shot and leaned over the fence, grabbed a big handful of fleece in each hand and pulled hard.

The sheep lifted off the ground and to my surprise, flew up over my head. I swung it round and over my shoulder and it landed on all fours and ran off to the other sheep, which we realised was its mother. They ambled away happily together. The kids cheered!

The thick fleece had made it look like a full-grown sheep and not a lamb, so I had gripped it and pulled upwards as hard as I could, but it was actually tiny under all that wool.

As I realised all this I looked at my hands. There was blood running down the palms, mixed with rain. There must have been thorns caught in the fleece which had dug into my hands.
I watched for a minute or so and saw the blood run away, leaving no trace. No cuts.

So that's my stigmata story; Scargy heroically rescuing the Lost Sheep.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
51,686
Reaction score
26,510
Points
309
Location
Eblana
This has been described before on'ere.

I was out with my family in Wales, wandering around a farm/zoo place in the drizzle. We saw the llamas and the funny cows, and then the kids spotted a sheep stuck between a fence and a hedge. It was bleating and a larger sheep was bleating back. My kids were quite upset about it so we went off to find the farmer.

He said not to worry, the sheep would get out on its own. When we went back though it was still there and seemed more distressed than before.

By now my kids were crying and begging me to help the sheep. I decided to give it a shot and leaned over the fence, grabbed a big handful of fleece in each hand and pulled hard.

The sheep lifted off the ground and to my surprise, flew up over my head. I swung it round and over my shoulder and it landed on all fours and ran off to the other sheep, which we realised was its mother. They ambled away happily together. The kids cheered!

The thick fleece had made it look like a full-grown sheep and not a lamb, so I had gripped it and pulled upwards as hard as I could, but it was actually tiny under all that wool.

As I realised all this I looked at my hands. There was blood running down the palms, mixed with rain. There must have been thorns caught in the fleece which had dug into my hands.
I watched for a minute or so and saw the blood run away, leaving no trace. No cuts.

So that's my stigmata story; Scargy heroically rescuing the Lost Sheep.
Truly the Lamb of God.
 
Top