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Stocksbridge Bypass Ghost

I have a habit of writing posts offline - and then running out of steam, or forgetting about them. The following is an old effort which I don’t think I ever posted, in part because I wanted to trace – amongst other sources - the documentary JamesWhitehead linked to above (Thanks again for that).

I’m also wondering if there might be another Stocksbridge thread, because I’m sure I’ve posted something more on the subject; there are other threads where Stocksbridge gets a mention: I thought it might be on the Weird things that have multiple witnesses? thread - apparently not, but it deserves a little bump anyway.)

So, If I have in fact posted this elsewhere, apologies for the repetition.

Anyway:

In idly reviewing the Stocksbridge events over the last couple of days a few things about the case struck me as really very unusual; I mean, obviously, you could say that hauntings are unusual by definition - but this one seems to have factors so outwith the (para)normal run of events that it appears especially so.

Firstly, there are a striking number of events involving multiple witnesses - in fact multiple witness encounters seem to form the majority of the better documented experiences. I'm no expert, but this strikes me as pretty remarkable, if not unique. I'd also add that all the witnesses that I've actually seen or heard interviewed come across as really pretty sincere and believable. (The policeman, Dick Ellis, always comes over as absolutely convincing.)

Secondly: Contrary to the common assertion that those experiencing apparently paranormal events are liable to ridicule, in this case, where interaction with colleagues or superiors is mentioned, these witnesses appear to have been treated very seriously by those with whom they have had direct contact. This leads me to wonder if the immediate psychological effects of the experiences were so apparent to those around them that all thoughts of belittling or ridiculing them were set aside (this certainly seems to have been what happened in the case of the two security guards).

Third: Although hauntings tend to be, almost by definition, very site-specific, it seems to me that - although focussed on the works involved in building the then new road - the area of operations for this phenomenon was much, much wider than is usual in most alleged hauntings. The initial very dramatic accounts take place at the works - however, other encounters appear to have occurred quite a way from the road itself. Again, this seems to me to be unusual.

Finally. In the most striking incidents whatever was happening at Stocksbridge seems to have been consciously interacting with the witnesses. This is not an element unique to this case, but it does surely contain some of the most dramatic expressions of that physicality, at least outside the traditional poltergeist haunting.

It’s always seemed to me that if we take as read that in discussing a haunting we are addressing something which is outside of what most individuals would consider ordinary experience, elements of some of the Stocksbridge accounts imply yet another level of strangeness laid on top of this.

Borderline sceptic I may be, but something about the Stocksbridge events still really fascinates me and I find it far more convincing - both as a whole, and within its individual elements - than many other famous modern hauntings.

Whatever was going on at Stocksbridge seems to be in remission now - I was going to add that this is a shame, but maybe I wouldn't feel that way if a mad flying monk leaped in front of my car.
 
Longdendale to Stocksbridge, a Friday Excursion, Part One

Up and about earlier than usual, I had the option of going a bit further. Once I was on the Eastern side of the outer ring-road, I found the map was opening up. Not the one I had brought, because I had neglected to bring it.

Though I was already on the do-not-cross part of the Hyde turn-off, I might have risked one of those infuriating moves I hate in others and still continued down the motorway to old, familiar Stockport. Yet a juggernaut in the next lane made me think again. I was soon on the M67.

I had never taken this road further than darkest Hyde, which has the double-doctor brand upon it by virtue or vice of Stevenson and Shipman. Beyond it, what?

Even before the Motorway ended, the traffic came to a halt. Barely twenty minutes into the journey, I was crawling behind a juggernaut of liquid Nitrogen. So would I be for the next twenty miles. Mottram-in-Longdendale to Tintwistle was one, long bottleneck. Just a succession of traffic lights seemed to blame. I cross off Hadfield from the itinerary to compensate for the delays. I might never leave! The amount of heavy traffic on this route in the middle of a Friday afternoon was daunting. Just one beserk driver . . .

The road rises out of this congestion through coniferous forest and the vistas open up on the right. Longdendale is a grand sight. Ears pop as the altitude begins to register. We cross the reservoir on a low, narrow bridge and the terrain begins to thin out as move through the treeless moorland of the summit of the pass.

In another queue of traffic, due to a contra-flow, I find my steering wheel is operated for me*. This could be a case of the hairy hands but it seems only to be the camber of the road which has activated some hitherto hidden automatic aspect of the car's suspension and steering. I watch as the wheel, left to its own devices, would have me in the path oncoming traffic. For a while I worry if this pulling could mean a deflating tyre or some worse damage to the steering. Yet around the corner it rights itself. I am still a long way from Stocksbridge. [To be continued . . . ] :eek:

edit 17.03.2017: I now think this was the first sign of a tyre-fault it would take six months to properly identify and rectify.
 
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Part Two

The journey through Longdendale and over the Peaks into Yorkshire is a reminder of the way passable routes concentrate human activity into a few narrow channels. It is a very busy road through a vast and still largely wild terrain. I resented all the traffic, especially the Nitrogen tanker which I followed for miles. As a child, I was terrified of such tankers: they were "naughty-ones," a fear brought on by seeing them explode in movies. Today, I restrict my morbid thoughts to being frozen to death in a pool of LN2!

I am soon on the A616. I have only the map in my head but by following the signs into Stocksbridge itself, I know I am saving the by-pass for later. A steel-town on the fringes of Sheffield's connurbation, the valley-location of Stocksbridge had suited it for steel-rolling. It is now an outpost of the Tata Empire, vulnerable to changes in the market and no longer employing the numbers it once did. Aerospace and speciality steels are the key products now but the factory and associated plant is much in evidence.

You can still park for free in Stocksbridge and the car-parks are the size of demolished houses. I memorize the name of mine: I am in Hope Street, back of the Co-Op, by a doctor's practice. I am soon on the High Street and notice at once the unusual number of independent small shops which remain, alongside many which are closed. Later I will read a retail analysis of the town: it was once noted as the biggest town to have no Woolworths! Other chains took the hint and also left it to its own devices, to the profit of small traders.

The High Street is very quiet, however and I'm drawn by the signs to the bottom of the valley, where a pale, stone-built folly is leaching the High Street of its arterial status without doing much trade itself. The Fox Valley Shopping Centre. is a costly and pretentious development, clinical and aspirational, if your aspirations are of the orange-face and painted-nails kind. Tesco, due to be a lynchpin of the site, pulled out, leaving it to Poundland and B & M to fill the gap. Elsewhere, you can see vast, stone-built caverns in which lonely assistants smile at the merchandise and the merchandise smiles back. At the café, they supply the kiddies with mattresses. There are a hundred ways to buy expensive coffee. Parking is free, however. Bless them for that.

I return past the candy-coloured shops on the approach. A smartly-dressed team of retail folk are being shown around. Potential investors? I hear the phrase "early days" and note the professional optimism which has to overlook the fact they are the only smart people there. It's like a feast that will never come out of the cling-film, from caterer to land-fill. There should be a statue of Ozymandias in the same-coloured stone, instead they have a fat beaver with an umbrella and they got Joanna Lumley to open it. The Centre, that is. Alternative uses may keep a few people busy in years to come. [To be continued . . . ]
 
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Part Three

The Church of Saint Matthias is a sooty stone barn of a place, its exposed bell-end is grimly functional, without any fancy steeple. I am drawn to the other side of the road, the Clocktower Gardens on the side of the valley and a hazardous-looking incline beside it. This is Nanny Hill and I make my way up her with all due caution.

The town's 1914-18 War Memorial

The Yorkshire stone has been tarted-up for the Centenary of the War but with the grime effaced, it looks a little less lived-in or died-for and rather too like the confounded Valley Centre! The enclosure is gated and visitors may raise the latch to do a circuit, pausing a moment to look out at the opposite side of the valley. I was there at exactly three-thirty and the Westminster chime made me jump, for there was no prefatory whirling of a mechanism audible. I suspect an electronic substitute for the original was installed.

It is a fine spot to view the route of the infamous bypass and the pylons on the other side.

Thoughts of the "other side" took me up the branching-slope to a cemetery. The graves near the entrance are fairly recent and of polished black stone in the main. None of them seem very ancient. An ugly and disused pavillion stands boarded up, its candy-colours unfitted to the place. Was it a chapel, a shelter for mourners, a toilet? Two signs of life: a merry schoolboy came tripping through the place, his white shirt and dark trousers made him timeless. It may be his daily route though the tombstones, oblivious to them. He vanished into the darkness of a hedge. Eventually I reached the spot he disappeared and found steep steps downwards into a wood. Returning to the graves, the second lively thing in the place was a hedgehog, rolling his scrubby way over the stones and edges, no very clear objective in view. I wished him a good afternoon and felt the first spots of rain on my cheek.

It was time to return to the car and face the main task of the day: I would return to the main road and dare to travel the Stocksbridge Bypass at last! [To be continued . . . ]
 
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Part Four

I don't know if it is anything to do with the fame of the place but the Stocksbridge Bypass is very well-supplied with large lay-bys or truck-stops. Large trucks were in evidence but soon after the overpass - it must be the overpass, as there is only one, I found one I could fit in behind a large articulated lorry. Now as I was here, I might as well explore on foot.

It was a lovely spot for blackberrying and I was tempted to fill a carrier bag with the free bounty; only thoughts of juice and prickles deterred me. Thoughtfully, the lay-by was sited by a signposted footpath and I was soon over a stile and into a field on the valley-side. A farmhouse was visible and I was directly under the electric grid, staring at a pylon. This was boxed by hedges in the corner of a field - not much of one for dancing around. It was the only one fully in view at that spot and I began to think of following the wires to identify more likely candidates for hosting fairy revels or the antics of spectral children. However, I was being observed.

There were things in the field, a whole flock of them. Their necks were turning slowly in my direction as their main grazing business was disturbed. Probably it was mere curiosity and they could easily have been spooked if I had gone on the offensive. As it was, my eyes were on the path I would have to navigate through the turds. I retreated over the stile, as the lead-sheep looked like making a run towards me. Had I come all this way to end my days ignominiously savaged by sheep?

I have not heard of recent supernatural activity in the area. The ghastly Valley development should disturb the land but no smelly friars have come back to reclaim it. Examining the geography of the area left me with two thoughts, both about the smells. One is that a dead sheep can emit a horrible stench, though I don't know if such fumes can lead to hallucinations. The other is that the bypass is on the mountainside immediately above the steel-mills. Whether patroling security-men and cops or jogging enthusiasts were breathing in pollutants that could have triggered their upsetting experiences is one of those reductionist solutions that has to be considered - along with all the objections to it.

I was not altogether persuaded that Stocksbridge is an uncanny place in general. In fact I think its most haunted time may be in years to come when the wind will whistle through the Fox Valley Centre and people will speculate about the kind of race which built it. :evil:

The End.

The local Historical Society has an interesting website.

It says nothing about the strange events during the construction of the bypass but the linked page does have some good photographs taken during the cutting of the route.
 
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I have a habit of writing posts offline - and then running out of steam, or forgetting about them. The following is an old effort which I don’t think I ever posted, in part because I wanted to trace – amongst other sources - the documentary JamesWhitehead linked to above (Thanks again for that).

I’m also wondering if there might be another Stocksbridge thread, because I’m sure I’ve posted something more on the subject; there are other threads where Stocksbridge gets a mention: I thought it might be on the Weird things that have multiple witnesses? thread - apparently not, but it deserves a little bump anyway.)

So, If I have in fact posted this elsewhere, apologies for the repetition.

Anyway:

In idly reviewing the Stocksbridge events over the last couple of days a few things about the case struck me as really very unusual; I mean, obviously, you could say that hauntings are unusual by definition - but this one seems to have factors so outwith the (para)normal run of events that it appears especially so.

Firstly, there are a striking number of events involving multiple witnesses - in fact multiple witness encounters seem to form the majority of the better documented experiences. I'm no expert, but this strikes me as pretty remarkable, if not unique. I'd also add that all the witnesses that I've actually seen or heard interviewed come across as really pretty sincere and believable. (The policeman, Dick Ellis, always comes over as absolutely convincing.)

Secondly: Contrary to the common assertion that those experiencing apparently paranormal events are liable to ridicule, in this case, where interaction with colleagues or superiors is mentioned, these witnesses appear to have been treated very seriously by those with whom they have had direct contact. This leads me to wonder if the immediate psychological effects of the experiences were so apparent to those around them that all thoughts of belittling or ridiculing them were set aside (this certainly seems to have been what happened in the case of the two security guards).

Third: Although hauntings tend to be, almost by definition, very site-specific, it seems to me that - although focussed on the works involved in building the then new road - the area of operations for this phenomenon was much, much wider than is usual in most alleged hauntings. The initial very dramatic accounts take place at the works - however, other encounters appear to have occurred quite a way from the road itself. Again, this seems to me to be unusual.

Finally. In the most striking incidents whatever was happening at Stocksbridge seems to have been consciously interacting with the witnesses. This is not an element unique to this case, but it does surely contain some of the most dramatic expressions of that physicality, at least outside the traditional poltergeist haunting.

It’s always seemed to me that if we take as read that in discussing a haunting we are addressing something which is outside of what most individuals would consider ordinary experience, elements of some of the Stocksbridge accounts imply yet another level of strangeness laid on top of this.

Borderline sceptic I may be, but something about the Stocksbridge events still really fascinates me and I find it far more convincing - both as a whole, and within its individual elements - than many other famous modern hauntings.

Whatever was going on at Stocksbridge seems to be in remission now - I was going to add that this is a shame, but maybe I wouldn't feel that way if a mad flying monk leaped in front of my car.

Good post that- thanks for it.
 
I was not altogether persuaded that Stocksbridge is an uncanny place in general. In fact I think its most haunted time may be in years to come when the wind will whistle through the Fox Valley Centre and people will speculate about the kind of race which built it. :evil:


LOVED this whole story! Thank you! :clap:
 
Good work James. Could you go back & do it at night? If there's a storm that would be even better.
 
...I was not altogether persuaded that Stocksbridge is an uncanny place in general...

No, I'd agree - and that's one of the interesting factors. If you were going to invent this as a narrative then there are much more atmospheric and striking places within a very short distance - head west not a stone's throw and you are in the misty inner realms of the Peak District. But somehow, to my mind, the relatively undramatic nature of the landscape and atmosphere around Stocksbridge adds to the authenticity.
 
OK, my reply to Spookdaddy’s invitation to comment on the Stocksbridge case and Sprinting Spooks:

Firstly, let’s throw this out there – the assigned number for the Stocksbridge bypass, the A616 eerily reflects the other less recorded Number of the Beast, 616 (see http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm). Actually, I suspect this is little to do with it. More so, I believe, is the coincidence of the peak sightings in 1987 with the construction phase itself. After seeing this repeated in a number of road ghost clusters – at Blue Bell Hill, Kent in 1992/3, at Newbury, Berkshire in 1986, and Castledawsn (N. Ireland) in 1992, it became apparent that major earth-moving schemes seem to trigger road ghosts and other anomalous phenomena. Having said that, there are plenty of instances where road works and other construction schemes evidently have not had this effect, which drew me into looking at specific cases, calendar dates & timings, etc, and additional factors in more detail. I won’t attempt to map these here (it’s all in the later chapters of my book), but there seem to be overlapping features that need to come together that then increase a given location’s propensity to ‘suffer’ the outrage of wounded Nature in the form of apparitional encounters.

But, having said that, as we all know, such events are notoriously unpredictable, and road ghosts seem also to pop in disparate places for almost no reason at all – only they tend to cycle around the regions so that very similar events occur in different places a different times, some even appearing to feature descriptively the same characters. Take, for example, the A38’s Man-in-the-Macintosh (Somerset) – a middle-aged man with unkempt grey hair, a grey coat, and carrying a torch, who was encountered between Willand and Taunton between the 1950s to the 1970s, who also seems to have terrorised motorists on the A12 between Essex and Norfolk in the 80s through 2000. And there is the same ‘white lady’ form in the guise of a young female ‘accident victim’ who crops up almost universally; plus ghastly old women (in black), child ghosts, hooded figures, and even animal (principally dogs) and phantom vehicles. It won’t surprise Forteans to find that these are recurrent images in mythology and folklore too, as expressions of the Jung’s archetypes - the enduring images that are burned into our unconscious by familiarity and repetition in a host of artistic and religious forms. (So, in road ghost cases we see, in the young woman, the White Lady herself, plus the female goddesses of Graeco-Roman mythology (especially those associated with death and renewal); the Cailleach and Hekate in the figure of the hostile old woman; the torch-bearing messenger and pyschopomp, Hermes; hooded figures, representing Charon / Telesphorus / the Grim Reaper; and Cerberus/Kerberus in the black (and white) dogs of the ancient mythologies and European folklore).

Archetypes too ‘account’ for phantom vehicles and other inanimate objects that are impossible to account for my traditional interpretations of ‘ghosts’, even if the mechanism isn’t properly understood. But modern examples of these recurrent images are found, for instance, in apparitions reported holding mobile phones or wearing hi-vis jackets (which, in the incident I’m thinking of, didn’t reflect the vehicle’s headlight beams). In the more persistent road ghost cases, it’s not unusual to find most of the whole ‘set’ featuring over time. Such recognition therefore draws us ever deeper into the pool of mystery, to Jung’s pleroma and the ultimate nature of things.

Anyway, back to Stocksbridge. I visited the location last year - Pearoyd bridge was initially hard to find - but the case has its inevitable crossovers with other RG cases, as it does with faerie lore, hooded apparitions, and so on - and therefore receives some attention in my book.

The Sprinting Spooks, as Spookdaddy calls them (nice alliterative term), are indeed an interesting sub-motif of the general road ghost set. In addition to the un-coordinated limb movement of the figure seen by Judi Simpson at Stocksbridge, I have an example of a running (and stumbling) figure at Blue Bell Hill, and of course such strange movement is displayed by other strange figures in paranormal lore, such as Springheeled Jack.

What I have learned through examination of a lot of RG cases is to try to treat the reports less literally, in the sense that what they seem to be doing is convey a symbolic message (as per Jung’s archetypes and their mythological counterparts - for instance, Hermes and Hekate were both psychopomps, guides to the newly dead (as well as, famously, Persephone, whom they respectively brought back from the Underworld)) - much as in dreams.

Both dreams and road ghost sightings act in the same sphere - the unconscious, which operates principally by symbolic association. For example, apparitions observed walking on bridges (but never stepping onto or off of them, as if stuck in a supernatural GIF loop) seem to be pointing to them as liminal and symbolic places - the bridge between this life and the next (as held in some traditions), and the act of walking forward indicative of the need to progress across this transitional state.

Apparitional figures seem to have difficulty with normal ambulation - the legs (if they move at all) stride forward at odds with the figure’s pace; the arms are often dangling lifelessly by the side. This may have something to do, in effect, with the limitations of the perceptive machinery of the witness. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that the conscious state of the witness is an important factor in ghost-seeing - the witness is often in the trance-like state of detachment found in the night-driving motorist; the reader who looks up from a book to see a figure standing there; the person going to bed who opens a door to find a figure on the stair. As soon as the conscious mind is shocked into normal wakeful perception, the figure generally vanishes like a soap bubble. It seems the unconscious state lacks the ability to compute the less critical aspects of a ghostly encounter, such as limb movement, or as often, facial details. Again, apt comparison is made to dreams, where we find the same features. This may even involve our own dream selves - I'm guessing many of us have had that awful sensation of trying to run in a dream only to find ourselves going nowhere very fast, as if pushing through treacle?

Another puzzling and repetitive feature of some road ghost cases is the seeming sorrow, disorientation, distress or even fear exhibited by the figure itself. Again, there are examples in my book, which include Resurrection Mary, the Blue Bell Hill girl, and the female figure encountered at the Red Bridge, nr. Llanidloes by teacher Bill Hopkins in 1973 that exude this feeling of sorrow or hurt. I've made some speculations within the archetypal/mythological paradigm that they may be reflecting back to us our own consciously unrecognised damage to the environment that is wrought in road-working (the same theme of a hurt or indignant Nature has its parallels, of course, in stories of the Icelandic Huldufólk); or they in same way are reflecting the sad plight of us all as mortals that are becoming increasingly materialistic at the expense of our true selves and our need and appreciation of the numinous aspects of Nature and existence. This really was Jung’s conclusion about the modern march into materialism in the 20th Century, whose effects are seen in a host of dis-spiriting aspects of modern living, which, while material comforts have increased, so too, in general terms, has a lack of purpose, wonder , satisfaction and meaning to life.
 
(The policeman, Dick Ellis, always comes over as absolutely convincing.)

Remember Ellis has given at least two TV interviews, one for 'Strange but True?', the other for the UK programme 'Ghosthunters', his version changes significantly. On one he describes looking to his right and seeing the torso of the monk pressing up against the gap of the open car window, and describes seeing the neck line of his habit. In the other he specifically says he saw nothing, but had the impression that something was pressing into the gap of the open window.
 
Remember Ellis has given at least two TV interviews, one for 'Strange but True?', the other for the UK programme 'Ghosthunters', his version changes significantly. On one he describes looking to his right and seeing the torso of the monk pressing up against the gap of the open car window, and describes seeing the neck line of his habit. In the other he specifically says he saw nothing, but had the impression that something was pressing into the gap of the open window.

Hadn't spotted that - but it gives me an excuse to watch both again (I always preferred the latter documentary - SBT seemed a little more woo and a little less detailed).

In the Dr David Clarke article linked to somewhere above it is stated that Ellis says that he saw the torso of a man; unsurprisingly it's the same in his book Supernatural Peak District (the interview was apparently first hand, and taken a fortnight after the events described.)

The anomaly (apart from the detail of the monk's neckline) may be explained by this interview. In the first instance Ellis claims that he initially had the 'feeling that someone was stood at the side of me'. What he then seems to be describing is a clearer view of this thing as he begins to turn towards it (that is - the torso of a man) only for it to disappear (apparently to the other side of the vehicle) once he has turned completely. In this sequence of events both the statements - that 'he had a feeling' and 'saw' - are true, but at different times in the trajectory of the narrative.

Anyway, that's tonight's TV sorted out.
 
Hadn't spotted that - but it gives me an excuse to watch both again (I always preferred the latter documentary - SBT seemed a little more woo and a little less detailed).

Anyway, that's tonight's TV sorted out.

Jenny Randles also covered the case in the book version of the SBT series (Piatkus 1994, ISBN-10: 074991459; ISBN-13: 978-074991459) - as did FT itself, briefly, in FT73 (1994), in which Ellis said he saw a figure briefly before hearing a bang on the back of the car (see attached).
 

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  • FT73 (1994) Stocks.pdf
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Hadn't spotted that - but it gives me an excuse to watch both again (I always preferred the latter documentary - SBT seemed a little more woo and a little less detailed).

In the Dr David Clarke article linked to somewhere above it is stated that Ellis says that he saw the torso of a man; unsurprisingly it's the same in his book Supernatural Peak District (the interview was apparently first hand, and taken a fortnight after the events described.)

The anomaly (apart from the detail of the monk's neckline) may be explained by this interview. In the first instance Ellis claims that he initially had the 'feeling that someone was stood at the side of me'. What he then seems to be describing is a clearer view of this thing as he begins to turn towards it (that is - the torso of a man) only for it to disappear (apparently to the other side of the vehicle) once he has turned completely. In this sequence of events both the statements - that 'he had a feeling' and 'saw' - are true, but at different times in the trajectory of the narrative.

Anyway, that's tonight's TV sorted out.

I'd like to know whether this is explainable too, but I can't find the link here to all the 'Ghosthunters' episodes.
 
I'd like to know whether this is explainable too, but I can't find the link here to all the 'Ghosthunters' episodes.

I found a link to the relevant Ghosthunters episode some while back, and I was convinced I'd checked it recently and it was still up and running (it was a non-YouTube site). But annoyingly, it now seems to be lost
 
My colleagues and I decided on Pearoyd Lane as a suitable place for our Stocksbridge night-time vigil. Parking by the power pylons we arranged overselves within a 150 yard radius and settled down to wait. I was near the pylons on the opposite side of the road looking down towards the town. A colleague was positioned 20 yards further down the Lane when suddenly a black hooded figure appeared in the middle of the road. It was clearly visible against the illuminated backdrop of the steel works and moved from right to left, straight toward another member of the team sitting on the embankment- who saw nothing! I was joined by my colleague who had also seen the figure from her slightly lower elevation and together we ran down to where it had disappeared in the darkness. Nothing, other than a bewildered and frustrated ghost hunter who hadn't seen anything.

An attempt to re-create the sighting showed that the figure was in fact a torso and when examining the Lane it was noticed that in the place where it crossed there is a sudden increase in the angle of the original road upwards to provide the necessary elevation to clear the underpass beneath. The figure appeared to be 'walking' on the original elevation of the road- stone tape theory at work?
 
I found this video made by Ghosts of Britain about the Stockbridge ghosts. They're too busy talking to each other to do any real research, and find nothing really.

 
Right then, so thanks to Eponastill's efforts we can now see that Dick Ellis' statements do change significantly between the two programmes. Not to the extent that I'd misremembered, that he said specifically that he hadn't seen anything in the Ghosthunters episode, but not to mention the sighting and in fact to say, ' I momentarily cast my head to the side and it had definitely gone' is significantly different to the other version to be a problem.

It doesn't mean he's lying, but it does mean there's a problem with his account as far as he's presented it.
 
An attempt to re-create the sighting showed that the figure was in fact a torso
What do you mean, sloop? That it literally was half normal height and had no legs, like the little ghost in He Man and the masters of the universe? Or no head, or no arms, or what? Or it looked like a person but when you went to recreate it, it was actually too small in that spot to have been the size of a person? (a touch of the 'those cows are far away' illusion?) - so either not where you thought it was, or actually not person-sized?
 
Also, it strikes me very much (watching the Strange but True episode) that there are decidedly fortean things in there other than the obvious and may I say cliche Ghost Monk.

Namely, that there are children dancing in a circle at the beginning (I imagine the singing is a touch of artistic license) - this reminded me of the Fairies dancing in a circle. There are many accounts of this in other places.

And later, the policemen's car won't start. Which smacks very much of what allegedly happens when people encounter UFOs.

I'll get the transcript for that up too, soon. but I should go to bed as it's work tomorrow :)
 
What do you mean, sloop? That it literally was half normal height and had no legs, like the little ghost in He Man and the masters of the universe? Or no head, or no arms, or what? Or it looked like a person but when you went to recreate it, it was actually too small in that spot to have been the size of a person? (a touch of the 'those cows are far away' illusion?) - so either not where you thought it was, or actually not person-sized?
Upper torso- the clue is in the word 'hooded.' The second clue is the sudden rise in the angle of the road and 'his' walking on the original level thus depriving him of his legs.
 
Ah I see, a bit like the sighting by Graham and Nigel, with part of the figure invisible beneath the road. But in your sighting, all of the legs, rather than from the shins down.

I only took torso to mean just a body (no head or legs/arms) because that's it's dictionary definition. So I guess that's why I didn't twig about the hooded bit. I suppose with a fairly shapeless bit of clothing like a hooded cape, you'd not be so aware of the wrong proportions of head:body when you saw it?

I'm not trying to be an arse but 'torso' isn't that common a word (maybe why you think it includes the head) - but it's a word that PC Ellis used because he had the impression of somebody's body blocking his car window. Maybe that's why you used it, because you'd heard it on the video?

The 'invisible legs' thing is also something from the video.

I suppose you'd seen the video before you went out on your ghost hunt. So how do you ensure you're not letting the things in the video influence your interpretation of whatever you see while you're out there?

Ok, I'm being silly, it's a rhetorical question really, I don't suppose anyone can and if I went to stocksbridge I'd be seeing legless monks in every shadow, because that's what I'd be expecting.

Again, I'm not trying to be an arse but on this message board we like to get to the meat and bone of things, and so as it's your sighting, could you explain what made you believe you were looking at the upper half of a ghostly monk rather than an earthly shadow of some sort?

Also, how did you work out that its legs were missing - did you get everyone into their original positions and send someone to the spot to compare their size?
 
Oh, I've done the transcript of the Strange But True as well now. Don't ask me why. I suppose because I love those programmes and as weird sightings go, this is one of my favourites.
http://forteanfindings.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/transcript-of-strange-but-true.html

The Strange But True on is earlier, from December 1994, and the Ghosthunters one is later, from March 1997.

Again thank you for doing that. So there is a definite contradiction. As I say though, it doesn't necessarily wipe out Ellis' credibility, I spend most of my free time researching an event we know happened, and the accounts of people we know were involved and by three years their accounts are all over the place.

For me though, I think Dick Ellis' account is different enough in important detail to make it unreliable.
 
This is the thing isn't it. Memory is a funny thing. Even the first time you tell about something that happened to you, you've probably been going over it in your head for hours, days, weeks. And by the time you've turned it into an actual Tellable Anecdote, you've already edited and drawn out what you think's most relevant or interesting. you start to remember the memory not the original incident. I suppose that's how memory gets formed?

two and a bit years down the line, how many times had PC Ellis recounted his tale? Perhaps he HAD just forgotten that detail about the v-neck shape, perhaps he'd left it out of his story after a while and then forgot it. The two programmes' accounts tally in other respects, don't you think? I don't see it as much of a contradiction, myself, but maybe I'm just being more lenient than you and I shouldn't be. But I kind of think he's just retelling his story (again, go on Mr Ellis, tell us that story of yours about the ghost again) by the later programme and so we have to see it in a different light?

One thing in his favour - I don't know who the people are in your own research of course - but one thing in Ellis's favour is that he was a policeman, and trained to Observe Things. He'd be a much better observer than most people. In fact in his account he slips into peculiar Police Observer language (stuff about "the vehicle" when we'd just say car). Also, surely he must have written down his report soon after all this actually happened? Even if he didn't put in the weird bits in his official police paperwork, I bet he wrote it all down out of the sheer police habit of writing down observations and evidence? Speculation, but I'd be intrigued to know the answer.

Another thing I'd love to know - after that business in the car with the figure at the windows and John Beet screaming, what on earth would have possessed them to stick around?!! I'd of been out of there double quick!

And also to note, the actual experiences happened in 1987, seven years before the Strange But True episode.
 
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