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Stone Tape Theory

That post is from me. I'd be grateful for additional references to look at or when the Stone Tape was mentioned as a possible explanation. Also, if there have ever been any other geologists who weighed in on the idea, I'd love to hear about this. Please comment on the post or message/email me directly.
 
Various spoofs considered here.

I'm sure we had another thread devoted to the theory. Probably the posts are all spread across the various cases, where the theory was raised. I seem to recall that the upper room of an old Welsh Inn was featured in a Nationwide* segment of the seventies that got people wondering and talking about the theory, perhaps to a greater extent than the Kneale play which gave it the name.

Sharon's study is excellent and raises the same questions in a more scientific framework. Even first-rate tape recordings don't play themselves back. I would live in a very haunted house if they did! :)

*A nightly evening show which coordinated the output of the BBC's regional stations via a bank of monitors behind the presenter. It was renowned for its glitches, its folksy tone and occasional presentiments of a possible internet.
 
I remember watching a (UK) TV show years ago (late 80's, early 90's ?) that involved investigators who'd been loaned an old earthenware pot. They surmised that, because the pot had clearly been made on a potter's wheel, it could potentially play back sound in the same way that a vinyl LP does considering grooves were present on it created by the hands of the person who made it so they put it back on a modern turntable and used some kind of laser technology (laser I think?) to 'listen' to it .. obviously the process was a lot more complicated than that but they seemed to have been able to play back voices on presentation to the film crew on that show .. does this ring bells with anyone else ? ... it was part of a ghost documentary as I recall and also the first time I'd heard of stone tape theory.
 
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I remember watching a (UK) TV show years ago (late 80's, early 90's) that involved investigators who'd been loaned an old earthenware pot. They surmised that, because the pot had clearly been made on a potter's wheel, it could potentially play back sound in the same way that a vinyl LP does considering grooves were present on it created by the hands of the person who made it so they put it back on a modern turntable and used some kind of laser technology (laser I think?) to 'listen' to it .. obviously the process was a lot more complicated than that but they seemed to have been able to play back voices on presentation to the film crew on that show .. does this ring bells with anyone else ? ... it was part of a ghost documentary as I recall and also the first time I'd heard of stone tape theory.

Yes, I've seen that program, or one like it, but can't recall the name. Don't think it was a ghost program, though. It was strictly dealing with whether sound could be recorded in this way.
 

I remember the Mythbuster attempt to recreate the pottery/record experiment. Think they used straw, rather than some sort of stylus to incise a groove around the pot, so I wasn't surprised that their experiment came to nothing.

Interesting, if more esoteric, suggestion here that the Stone Tape effect may be more to do with photons and magnetism:

http://supernaturalmagazine.com/art...more-to-do-with-light-magnetic-fields-and-the
 
That post is from me. I'd be grateful for additional references to look at or when the Stone Tape was mentioned as a possible explanation. Also, if there have ever been any other geologists who weighed in on the idea, I'd love to hear about this. Please comment on the post or message/email me directly.
I like your videos, Sharon. :)
 
I remember watching a (UK) TV show years ago (late 80's, early 90's ?) that involved investigators who'd been loaned an old earthenware pot. They surmised that, because the pot had clearly been made on a potter's wheel, it could potentially play back sound in the same way that a vinyl LP does considering grooves were present on it created by the hands of the person who made it so they put it back on a modern turntable and used some kind of laser technology (laser I think?) to 'listen' to it .. obviously the process was a lot more complicated than that but they seemed to have been able to play back voices on presentation to the film crew on that show .. does this ring bells with anyone else ? ... it was part of a ghost documentary as I recall and also the first time I'd heard of stone tape theory.
Mythbusters tried that and failed to get anything out of it, IIRC.

Edit: OK, I missed the post above that mentions Mythbusters...
 
The earthenware recording theory was not, iirc, in any way supernatural, merely the idea that a stylus used on a pot could have reacted to local vibrations and voices.

I loved the idea that we might get to hear the voices of ancient potters. It is true to say that some very early recordings were issued on discs that seem rough as an old plate but the original sounds were captured on sensitive foil or wax and required processing, often electro-plating, to produce stampers etc. :(
 
I remember watching a (UK) TV show years ago (late 80's, early 90's ?) that involved investigators who'd been loaned an old earthenware pot. They surmised that, because the pot had clearly been made on a potter's wheel, it could potentially play back sound in the same way that a vinyl LP does considering grooves were present on it created by the hands of the person who made it so they put it back on a modern turntable and used some kind of laser technology (laser I think?) to 'listen' to it .. obviously the process was a lot more complicated than that but they seemed to have been able to play back voices on presentation to the film crew on that show .. does this ring bells with anyone else ? ... it was part of a ghost documentary as I recall and also the first time I'd heard of stone tape theory.
pretty sure it was one of the Arthur C Clarke series.
Edit - here it is, from about 4.30
no voices though.
And the same idea (this time with the voice of Christ) made it into an episode of the X-Files too.
 
This is from the OP's link:

"Let’s be clear about one more term: “theory”. A “theory” in science is not a guess or a supposition. It is a well-tested model to describe how something in nature works – evolution, gravity, relativity, etc. Therefore, the STT isn’t a scientific theory, it’s speculation and the word “theory” is used to connote “guess”. The following questions remain unanswered:
How do things get recorded?
What gets recorded and what doesn’t?
How does it get preserved?
How does it get played back?
Therefore, we have an incomplete concept far from being a worthwhile explanation".

I'd add What exactly is it that gets played back?

May I also suggest this definition be placed in the FT message board Ts & Cs to be read and agreed to by new joining members? Might give the true believers some idea of what we are and aren't.
 
pretty sure it was one of the Arthur C Clarke series.
Edit - here it is, from about 4.30
no voices though.
And the same idea (this time with the voice of Christ) made it into an episode of the X-Files too.
That's it ! .. thank you.
 
This is from the OP's link:

"Let’s be clear about one more term: “theory”. A “theory” in science is not a guess or a supposition. It is a well-tested model to describe how something in nature works – evolution, gravity, relativity, etc. Therefore, the STT isn’t a scientific theory, it’s speculation and the word “theory” is used to connote “guess”. The following questions remain unanswered:
How do things get recorded?
What gets recorded and what doesn’t?
How does it get preserved?
How does it get played back?

Therefore, we have an incomplete concept far from being a worthwhile explanation".

I'd add What exactly is it that gets played back?

May I also suggest this definition be placed in the FT message board Ts & Cs to be read and agreed to by new joining members? Might give the true believers some idea of what we are and aren't.
Maybe it needs to be called the 'Stone Tape Conjecture'?
 
That post is from me. I'd be grateful for additional references to look at or when the Stone Tape was mentioned as a possible explanation. Also, if there have ever been any other geologists who weighed in on the idea, I'd love to hear about this. Please comment on the post or message/email me directly.
Hi Sharon

This is a search result link which should bring up most of the Stone Tape mentions on the board since we started. Obviously a number relate to "The Stone Tape" by Nigel Kneale and the various adaptations thereof, but it also crops up in a number of different threads. Particularly interesting are the ones that link it in with Lethbridge. The link is here.

My own opinion has long been that, given the right conditions, stone (or brick) can record a "loop" of emotion or otherwise charged action, and then, again given the right conditions, can replay it ad infinitum. I don't however think it is a catch-all explanation for ghosts, which I rather think have a multitude of possible causes and just happen to manifest similarly (just as a multitude of viruses all manifest like the common cold.)
 
Hi Sharon

This is a search result link which should bring up most of the Stone Tape mentions on the board since we started. Obviously a number relate to "The Stone Tape" by Nigel Kneale and the various adaptations thereof, but it also crops up in a number of different threads. Particularly interesting are the ones that link it in with Lethbridge. The link is here.

My own opinion has long been that, given the right conditions, stone (or brick) can record a "loop" of emotion or otherwise charged action, and then, again given the right conditions, can replay it ad infinitum. I don't however think it is a catch-all explanation for ghosts, which I rather think have a multitude of possible causes and just happen to manifest similarly (just as a multitude of viruses all manifest like the common cold.)
I seem to remember places, homes, houses etc that were situated either over or next to flowing water also being tied somehow into stone tape theory, that is, houses, tied in with stone tape theory, 'replaying' emotional situations as 'ghosts' very much like a magnetic cassette tape would. I was hoping to find the original source of that theory so will keep looking for this possible link between the supernatural and the natural online .. it's the one I've always felt makes the most sense as an explanation for ghosts for some reason, perhaps because it's the most comforting ? ..
 
I seem to remember places, homes, houses etc that were situated either over or next to flowing water also being tied somehow into stone tape theory, that is, houses, tied in with stone tape theory, 'replaying' emotional situations as 'ghosts' very much like a magnetic cassette tape would. I was hoping to find the original source of that theory so will keep looking for this possible link between the supernatural and the natural online .. it's the one I've always felt makes the most sense as an explanation for ghosts for some reason, perhaps because it's the most comforting ? ..
Yep, that was Lethbridge (among others, but the great dowser was the main proponent.)
 
If stone tape theory can become stone tape fact, it will no longer be supernatural, but something which can be repeated by scientific procedure.
 
If stone tape theory can become stone tape fact, it will no longer be supernatural, but something which can be repeated by scientific procedure.

Surely it should be going from stone tape hypothesis TO stone tape theory if that was the case... ;)
 
I remember watching a (UK) TV show years ago (late 80's, early 90's ?) that involved investigators who'd been loaned an old earthenware pot. They surmised that, because the pot had clearly been made on a potter's wheel, it could potentially play back sound in the same way that a vinyl LP does ...

The "Pottery Tape" variation on Stone Tape Theory is the subject of this other thread:

Top Of The Pots (Recovery Of Sounds Recorded In Ceramic Artifacts)
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...of-sounds-recorded-in-ceramic-artifacts.2840/
 
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I'd dispute that a theory is "a well tested model." A theory is a TESTABLE hypothesis.

The hypothesis is a reasonable guess, usually based on observation, which requires testing. If it's not inherently testable, it's generally not regarded as scientific.

A theory is based on data, generally experimental data, is an explanation, and can be repeatedly tested.

The 'Stone Tale Theory' might really be called "The Stone Tape Hypothesis", but as it doesn't seem testable, it's not really even that. It's an idea.

The 'Stone Tape idea'. There.
 
I'd dispute that a theory is "a well tested model." A theory is a TESTABLE hypothesis.

... The 'Stone Tale Theory' might really be called "The Stone Tape Hypothesis", but as it doesn't seem testable, it's not really even that. It's an idea.
The 'Stone Tape idea'. There.

Agreed ... This is a good illustration of why some topics are "damned science" rather than "scientific" in the conventional / mainstream sense.
 
Watched the 1952 supernatural thriller "Ghost Ship" tonight.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044656/

In one scene a psychic investigator explains to two sceptics how vibrations generated by a traumatic experience could be absorbed into the walls and then picked up or replayed by a suitably sensitive recipient. He demonstrated the theory, using tuning forks.
Just wondered if this was one of the earliest descriptions of the stone tape theory in a movie.
 
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I'd dispute that a theory is "a well tested model." A theory is a TESTABLE hypothesis.

If something isn't testable, it isn't a hypothesis. At best it is speculation or conjecture.

When a hypothesis has been repeatedly tested and shown to produce consistent results, it becomes a theory.

Theories are then subject to constant refinement or revision on the basis of further hypotheses and experiments.

The Stone Tape Theory is not a theory in any scientific sense. It is a hand waving argument, a conjecture, wild speculation, or an "explanation by fanciful analogy".

In order to become a theory, its proponents would need to put forward some consistent definitions, and come up with some repeatable experiments.

1) What is "emotional energy" and how is it measured and categorised?
2) How is the information encoded and stored in the stones (or other media)?
3) How is the information extracted, received and experienced?

There are so many holes in the idea.

1) Why is it that certain emotions seem to be "recorded" more often than others? No one ever sees a ghost of two happy young lovers having a picnic. No one sees a ghost of a couple having a passionate sexual encounter. No one sees a ghost of someone angrily reprimanding a lazy servant. No on hears a ghost of a domestic argument. It always seems to be murder, suicide, execution, despair, unrequited love, or something totally unemotional like a Roman legion marching along the Great North Road.

2) If the walls of a haunted house are made of many stones, not all of which have their structure aligned the same way, is it that just one stone records the information? If not, why don't so many stones record it that the information that is transmitted back to the witness as a hopless jumble of out of phase signals? Why is it not overwritten by later events? What is the half life of the stored signal? How is it affected by changing moisture levels in the rocks, or thermal expansion and contraction?

3) Are the stone broadcasting the information all the time? If so, why don't they run out of "energy"? if not, do they somehow detect the "sensitive" witness and start broadcasting to them? Why do we get so few (no) reports of sensitive witnesses returning to a scene and seeing exactly the same thing time after time?

It is like one of those scam medical or cosmetic adverts: a few scientific-sounding terms, a tenuous analogy to something everyone can understand (a photographic plate, or a magnetic tape) and wishful thinking.
 
"or something totally unemotional like a Roman legion marching ..."

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/by-the-look-of-you-youve-seen-the-romans
That's what I meant. << It always seems to be ... or something totally unemotional like a Roman legion marching along the Great North Road.>>

I live next to the A1 and I'm aware of stories about ghostly Roman legions seen marching. If a group of soldiers marching somehow imprinted an emotional energy on the local minerals, then surely there'd also be ghosts of "ancient" salesmen driving up and down in their Ford Cortinas trying to meet long-overdue deadlines.
 
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