• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Strange Deaths

All modern hot air balloons have one or more vents in the envelope (hot air bag) allowing the 'pilot' to release hot air, reduce net buoyancy, and cause the balloon to descend. Some envelopes also have vents on their sides, allowing for releasing hot air laterally to provide a modest way to rotate the balloon. The vents are controlled by lines / ropes from the gondola.

Whether or not immediate venting could have brought the balloon back down in time to save this poor guy is an open question. One must also consider the fact a radical venting would have exposed all aboard to risk during a sudden emergency landing.
As I have mentioned on another thread, when I went up in a balloon, we had to make a rapid descent due to power lines, the balloon operator pulled the 'parachute' which is a vent at the top of the balloon, which releases the hot air very rapidly causing the basket to drop like a brick, we were only about 20 ft up but we hit the ground pretty hard and fast.
 
As I have mentioned on another thread, when I went up in a balloon, we had to make a rapid descent due to power lines, the balloon operator pulled the 'parachute' which is a vent at the top of the balloon, which releases the hot air very rapidly causing the basket to drop like a brick, we were only about 20 ft up but we hit the ground pretty hard and fast.
Yep ... A basically uncontrolled emergency landing would have been dangerous for the guy hanging outside the gondola and everyone else as well. To make matters worse, there's no guarantee he could have hung on long enough to land.
 
Still reading Ghostland An American history In haunted Places.

I looked up the sad case of Margaret Schilling. The asylum was so vast that it was possible for people to go missing and their bodies not discovered for a while. This happened to Margaret Schilling whose body was found a month later in the attic of an unused part of the site. She was apparently a good resident and relatively independent. She was supposed to have taken off her clothes and folded them up neatly before lying down on the stone cold floor and died.

It is by all accounts a famous case and is a sad reflection of care at that time.

https://www.historicmysteries.com/margaret-schilling/
Good link. I followed it to the original Fbook comments. Some questions as to how she got lost. One story is that she was deaf and didn't speak and that she got separated somehow and was not able to call for help. This makes little sense as someone can still make noise by banging or however. Just because you don't speak, doesn't mean you can't make noise.

One person mentions that they had a relative who received electroshock therapy there. Side effect of ET is loss of memory. I wonder if Margaret Schilling had had a session and then wandered somewhere, not really knowing where she was. From what I've heard, ET also can leave people in an infantile state and not able to care for themselves.

Sad story either way and no one will know what really happened.
 
Safe NYT link -

Extreme Heat Caused Family’s Death in Sierra National Forest, Authorities Say

After a two-month effort to find out what killed Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, their 1-year-old daughter, Miju, and their dog, investigators pointed to 109-degree heat and a lack of water.

A California couple and their 1-year-old daughter died from effects of heat stroke and possible dehydration while hiking in nearly 110-degree temperatures in the Sierra National Forest in August, a sheriff said on Thursday, solving a mystery that had confounded investigators for more than two months.

When search teams found the bodies of Jonathan Gerrish and Ellen Chung, along with that of their daughter, Miju, on the morning of Aug. 17, they had a “minute” amount of water on them, Jeremy Briese, the Mariposa County sheriff, said during a news conference.

Three pointless deaths. :(
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/r...volving-alec-baldwin/ar-AAPOhva?ocid=msedgntp

"A female crew member has died and another injured following an accident involving a prop firearm on the New Mexico set of the film "Rust," according to a law enforcement statement provided to CNN."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...fired-prop-gun-woman-death-movie-rust-sheriff

"Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a movie set in an accident that killed a photography chief and injured a director, authorities in New Mexico have said.

A statement from the Santa Fe Sheriff’s office said Baldwin, who is acting in and producing the film Rust, had fired the prop gun in an incident on Thursday.



The statement said deputies were dispatched to the set around 2pm in Bonanza Creek Ranch when a 911 caller reported a shooting.

“The sheriff’s office confirms that two individuals were shot on the set of Rust. Halyna Hutchins, 42, director of photography and Joel Souza, 48, director, were shot when a prop firearm was discharged by Alec Baldwin, 68, producer and actor,” it said."

halyna-hutchins-1.jpg
 
A YouTube channel I watch (Matt's Recovery,) specialises in recovering vehicles and their occupants from very remote and sometimes mountain areas. The vast expanses of remote land in the States amazes me - satellite images of the location of vehicles are scary. But what amazes me most is the number of drivers who attempt these journeys in ordinary cars and get stuck, and the number of very elderly drivers who can't control their large 4wd ride. One recent one was an elderly driver who, in the middle of the very back of beyond, got stuck. Matt eventually found him and pulled him out. The driver assured Matt that he could get back from there easily and Matt very reluctantly left him. Call next morning indicated that the driver had not got home and had got stuck again at night. Recovered him again. One can easily imagine people dying in these remote areas, without the wherewithal to summon help.
 
Good link. I followed it to the original Fbook comments. Some questions as to how she got lost. One story is that she was deaf and didn't speak and that she got separated somehow and was not able to call for help. This makes little sense as someone can still make noise by banging or however. Just because you don't speak, doesn't mean you can't make noise.

One person mentions that they had a relative who received electroshock therapy there. Side effect of ET is loss of memory. I wonder if Margaret Schilling had had a session and then wandered somewhere, not really knowing where she was. From what I've heard, ET also can leave people in an infantile state and not able to care for themselves.

Sad story either way and no one will know what really happened.
Similar incident occurred in the fairly recent past at a relatively new local mental health hospital, only involving a nurse who disappeared. "Extensive" searches made by staff and apparently by the police failed to find her. Her parents were called and they found her dead(for some hours) in a toilet. I guess it depends how detailed the search was in the above case.
 
Were the family not found near a water source? And it seems strange that the dog would have died of the same cause, given that dogs will drink any available water.

"Nearby waterways are being tested for toxic algae blooms, officials said."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58288482
I was walking with someone in a semi-desert some years ago, it was obvious to me that this person was dehydrated and I had to force them, literally, to drink water - they just didn't want it.
 
I was walking with someone in a semi-desert some years ago, it was obvious to me that this person was dehydrated and I had to force them, literally, to drink water - they just didn't want it.

I did an extreme marathon bike ride. I'd really prepared for it. There were people who did the half race, (still pretty difficult), who were all over the place. I stopped and offered assistance several times as it was a horribly hot weekend. People just had no idea what they needed to do to stay hydrated and yet keep enough calories burning or look after themselves.


If you do it enough your body will tell exactly what it needs whether it is calories, water, or electrolytes.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...fired-prop-gun-woman-death-movie-rust-sheriff

"Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a movie set in an accident that killed a photography chief and injured a director, authorities in New Mexico have said.

A statement from the Santa Fe Sheriff’s office said Baldwin, who is acting in and producing the film Rust, had fired the prop gun in an incident on Thursday.



The statement said deputies were dispatched to the set around 2pm in Bonanza Creek Ranch when a 911 caller reported a shooting.

“The sheriff’s office confirms that two individuals were shot on the set of Rust. Halyna Hutchins, 42, director of photography and Joel Souza, 48, director, were shot when a prop firearm was discharged by Alec Baldwin, 68, producer and actor,” it said."

halyna-hutchins-1.jpg
She would have been operating the camera, with the director standing just behind her.
They probably told Alec to fire the gun in their direction, for a certain kind of shot.
I'm surprised that a prop malfunctioned in this way, because similar accidents have occurred before - you'd think they'd have taken all the precautions necessary. What may have happened is that the cartridge of the blank round may have disintegrated, blasting shards of metal outwards (and maybe carrying part of the gun barrel too). Somebody may have put too much explosive in the blank round.
 
I did an extreme marathon bike ride. I'd really prepared for it. There were people who did the half race, (still pretty difficult), who were all over the place. I stopped and offered assistance several times as it was a horribly hot weekend. People just had no idea what they needed to do to stay hydrated and yet keep enough calories burning or look after themselves.


If you do it enough your body will tell exactly what it needs whether it is calories, water, or electrolytes.
Techy had to learn all that the hard way. He rarely feels thirsty and can't rely on that to stay hydrated.
So he's had exercise-dehydration with the dizziness, headache etc.

(His elderly mother never feels thirsty either so hardly drinks anything. This is a common cause of urinary infections in older people which can be dangerous.)

These days he takes a drink at set intervals whether he wants to or not and lectures me about it.
That's me with the constant swigging habit who'll drink water and squash all day to the point of drowning my own brain.

He'd also refuse to eat before a ride, partly because he doesn't like eating 'too early' and partly, I suspect, on misguided advice about exercising on an empty stomach burning up more calories. A severe and comprehensive bonk taught him all about that particular silliness. :chuckle:
 
Were the family not found near a water source? And it seems strange that the dog would have died of the same cause, given that dogs will drink any available water.

"Nearby waterways are being tested for toxic algae blooms, officials said."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58288482
In fact, I just remembered the same thing with a friend on the Camino de Santiago, felt ill after a long day's hike, refused water, even though I'd noticed he had not been drinking enough and told him to drink more. When he eventually did, as with my desert companion, he felt much better very quickly. Strange that in these cases, when the body most needs water, the person doesn't want it.
 
Last edited:
She would have been operating the camera, with the director standing just behind her.
They probably told Alec to fire the gun in their direction, for a certain kind of shot.
I'm surprised that a prop malfunctioned in this way, because similar accidents have occurred before - you'd think they'd have taken all the precautions necessary. What may have happened is that the cartridge of the blank round may have disintegrated, blasting shards of metal outwards (and maybe carrying part of the gun barrel too). Somebody may have put too much explosive in the blank round.
On t'BBC News just now I've heard that it was a prop gun malfunction.
 
She would have been operating the camera, with the director standing just behind her.
They probably told Alec to fire the gun in their direction, for a certain kind of shot.
I'm surprised that a prop malfunctioned in this way, because similar accidents have occurred before - you'd think they'd have taken all the precautions necessary. What may have happened is that the cartridge of the blank round may have disintegrated, blasting shards of metal outwards (and maybe carrying part of the gun barrel too). Somebody may have put too much explosive in the blank round.

This was discussed on BBC radio just now.
Movie blanks, notably in westerns (which I gather Rust is) are designed to make an authentic bang and expel a little black powder as convincing gun smoke. If you stand too close, you can experience a powder burn, but a shot passing through the body of one victim and almost killing a second is absolutely unheard of.
As the movie firearms expert being interviewed also said, to avoid the possibility of powder burns, you never aim directly at anyone even with blanks. You aim at a mark at least 3 feet to one side and the camera angle is designed to compensate for this to make it look like someone has been hit.
Baldwin has been in previous movies using prop firearms, so ought to know the rules.
 
This was discussed on BBC radio just now.
Movie blanks, notably in westerns (which I gather Rust is) are designed to make an authentic bang and expel a little black powder as convincing gun smoke. If you stand too close, you can experience a powder burn, but a shot passing through the body of one victim and almost killing a second is absolutely unheard of.
As the movie firearms expert being interviewed also said, to avoid the possibility of powder burns, you never aim directly at anyone even with blanks. You aim at a mark at least 3 feet to one side and the camera angle is designed to compensate for this to make it look like someone has been hit.
Baldwin has been in previous movies using prop firearms, so ought to know the rules.
Sounds very much like a live round was used rather than a blank
 
Sounds very much like a live round was used rather than a blank

I wonder whether the revolver was chambered for metallic cartridges, or was a muzzleloader? All the film synopsis says is "Western" which - depending on the timeframe - could involve either.

Many film prop handguns have been converted to fire multi-calibre blanks, though ones specific to calibre, e.g. .38 Special, .45 "Long" Colt, .38-40 etc. - are available.

To kill one person and injure a second implies a projectile, whereas most blanks are simply powder charges, topped with a paper or wax wad, with the end of the cartridge case crimped to retain the propellant:

thumbnail.asp


I find it very difficult to believe that a fragment of such wadding could do such damage to two people.

The involvement of Alec Baldwin raises red flags for me, as he does not have a good reputation regarding temperament and stability.

The investigation will doubtless be thorough. Until its conclusions... :dunno:

maximus otter
 
Last edited:
Just been reading through the early reports of the families discovery and cant find much information regarding whether the dog was found with or nearby to the family.
Another thing occurred to me... There are plenty of stories of loyal dogs remaining beside their owners after death, not searching for food or water.
 
I wonder whether the revolver was chambered for metallic cartridges, or was a muzzleloader? All the film synopsis says is "Western" which - depending on the timefame - could involve either.

Many film prop handguns have been converted to fire multi-calibre blanks, though ones specific to calibre, e.g. .38 Special, .45 "Long" Colt, .38-40 etc. - are available.

To kill one person and injure a second implies a projectile, whereas most blanks are simply powder charges, topped with a paper or wax wad, with the end of the cartridge case crimped to retain the propellant:

thumbnail.asp


I find it very difficult to believe that a fragment of such wadding could do such damage to two people.

The involvement of Alec Baldwin raises red flags for me, as he does not have a good reputation regarding temperament and stability.

The investigation will doubtless be thorough. Until its conclusions... :dunno:

maximus otter
A Hollywood movie prop gun supplier was on LBC this morning to say he worked with Baldwin before on a gun-heavy movie and was impressed by his professionalism and attitude around the prop guns.
 
A Hollywood movie prop gun supplier was on LBC this morning to say he worked with Baldwin before on a gun-heavy movie and was impressed by his professionalism and attitude around the prop guns.

- Although a cynic might say "Man whose livelihoood depends on being hired by Hollywood says nice things about Hollywood."

Baldwin's stability is not impressive, as this list of some of his outbursts makes clear. It may well be that he is the blameless but uninjured victim of somebody else's stupidity, or just a link in a chain of unforeseeable tragic events, but one can't help but narrow one's eyes a bit.

maximus otter
 
Last edited:
Regarding the young family and dog who all died of dehydration in California:

If it is true, it was poor decision-making on the part of the parents. It was just a mistake, but with disastrous consequences. I have loved going into wilderness areas my whole life, and on a regular, not frequent, basis see poor decision-making by all kinds of people, of all ages.

To take a very young child on such a hike in such heat is just dumb. Perhaps overconfidence on the part of the parents, who may have been enjoying thinking of themselves as modern, young, healthy, outdoorsy, introducing their child to a healthy lifestyle, etc. Perhaps the dog was leashed.

Years ago, I was out by myself driving through wilderness in northern Arizona. I ran across a young Navajo man who had gone out jogging, got lost, and was in bad shape from heat and dehydration. I got him in my car, got him water, electrolytes, cooled down, etc. He had no health insurance and refused to go the hospital, so I took him to my home until he was stabilized and coherent; then he begged me to not tell anyone what happened because he was a native American and shouldn’t get lost in the desert. He was embarrassed.

I have been injured rock climbing, skiing, etc. and know and believe how quickly things can go wrong. I plan for things going wrong from the start. With that being said, about 6 months ago I made a couple of related, casual decisions which almost led to disastrous consequences: I took my disabled husband on a spur of the moment drive in the Arizona countryside. No cell phone reception and therefore no GPS in the vast wilderness, didn’t see anyone else for hours, I got lost (WTF!?!) and almost ran out of gas in temperatures of over 110F. Just like that California family. I was dumb, too. So now we have an expensive satellite GPS that doesn't require cell phone reception. I was really scared.

Shit happens, and overconfidence is part of it. My believing that shit happens, and thinking of myself as prepared, is part of my overconfidence.
 
Back
Top