Strange Deaths

PeteS

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The phrase “loading blanks” is ambiguous, and could refer to the processes of either:

a) Manufacturing blank ammo, or;

b) Inserting blank ammo into a firearm.

I’d hope that blanks for film sets wouldn’t be made by removing bullets from “live” cartridges, as there’d be too much room for mistakes; blanks in a huge range of calibres are readily available.

Manufacturing blanks is typically done by cutting down an appropriate longer cartridge case (.45ACP pistol blanks can be made from .30-06 rifle cases, for example), charging with powder under a styrofoam retaining wad, then crimping the case mouth. The question is: why would a film set armourer bother when professionally-made rounds are available off the shelf?

maximus otter
Exactly - blanks are readily available and can be bought by anyone in the UK don't suppose it's different in the US. Live rounds on the set suggests that someone was arsing about.
 

Nosmo King

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If the gun had what we Brits would call a real bullet in it, where did it come from?

OK, people make mistakes and pick up the wrong thing, but how could a real bullet be mixed up with the blanks?

What business did an actual shooty projectile have being anywhere near a gun that was being used as a cinematic prop?

That's the armourer's responsibility. She sounds pretty much incompetent.
According to reports, the crew were using the productions firearms for target practice, near to the set, in their down time.

"A prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in an accidental shooting had allegedly been used for off-set target practice, according to a report by celebrity website TMZ.

Sources told the site the prop gun fired by Alec Baldwin on the set of the western movie Rust on Thursday had also been used to fire real bullets by crew members."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ins-baldwin-gun-target-practice-b1945077.html
 

PeteS

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That's the armourer's responsibility. She sounds pretty much incompetent.
Incompetent and criminally negligent, together with the shooter causing the gun to be pointed where others were standing.

As a slight aside, but nonetheless somewhat relevant, I've noticed an increasing trend for people to hold themselves out to be an "expert" in some subject or field, when really they've had a days training if that, or have "read a lot" about the subject or similar. When the health or safety of others is concerned they can become dangerous liabilities. I came across this very recently where the person concerned should not have been allowed anywhere near other people.
 

Bigphoot2

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Incompetent and criminally negligent, together with the shooter causing the gun to be pointed where others were standing.

As a slight aside, but nonetheless somewhat relevant, I've noticed an increasing trend for people to hold themselves out to be an "expert" in some subject or field, when really they've had a days training if that, or have "read a lot" about the subject or similar. When the health or safety of others is concerned they can become dangerous liabilities. I came across this very recently where the person concerned should not have been allowed anywhere near other people.
My old manager used to say "Never trust anyone who calls themselves an expert."
 

escargot

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See it with you own eyes, validate and verify, you cant go wrong :)
That's OK if you are competent to understand what you're being shown. Come to guns, which I used to fire on ranges and had to load myself, I couldn't say whether one was correctly prepared or not.
 

escargot

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According to reports, the crew were using the productions firearms for target practice, near to the set, in their down time.

"A prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in an accidental shooting had allegedly been used for off-set target practice, according to a report by celebrity website TMZ.

Sources told the site the prop gun fired by Alec Baldwin on the set of the western movie Rust on Thursday had also been used to fire real bullets by crew members."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ins-baldwin-gun-target-practice-b1945077.html
(Note use of the technical term real bullets there! :wink2:)

That's just shocking.

It wouldn't happen in the UK if only because we're not generally interested in guns and they'd be locked up anyway.
 

escargot

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Incompetent and criminally negligent, together with the shooter causing the gun to be pointed where others were standing.

As a slight aside, but nonetheless somewhat relevant, I've noticed an increasing trend for people to hold themselves out to be an "expert" in some subject or field, when really they've had a days training if that, or have "read a lot" about the subject or similar. When the health or safety of others is concerned they can become dangerous liabilities. I came across this very recently where the person concerned should not have been allowed anywhere near other people.
When I worked at the Magistrates' Courts the term 'expert' was taken very seriously indeed. Sometimes a defendant would claim to be an expert on something and the Clerk would say 'No, you are not an expert recognised by the Court.'

In a legal context an 'Expert' is called or appointed by the Court. That's the standard we should look to.
 

Nosmo King

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That's OK if you are competent to understand what you're being shown. Come to guns, which I used to fire on ranges and had to load myself, I couldn't say whether one was correctly prepared or not.
I would never use a tool unless I was competent in using it
 

EnolaGaia

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Read in a newspaper a long time ago:
Ex = a has been
Spurt = a drip under pressure
I can claim to have invented the following variation that I'd trot out in the context of my AI R&D work decades ago:

Expertise:
Ex = a has-been
Spurt = a drip under pressure
Tease = the claim or promise of something you cannot in fact deliver
 

CarlosTheDJ

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According to reports, the crew were using the productions firearms for target practice, near to the set, in their down time.

"A prop gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in an accidental shooting had allegedly been used for off-set target practice, according to a report by celebrity website TMZ.

Sources told the site the prop gun fired by Alec Baldwin on the set of the western movie Rust on Thursday had also been used to fire real bullets by crew members."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ins-baldwin-gun-target-practice-b1945077.html

Well I think this case is solved. FFS.
 

Cochise

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When I worked at the Magistrates' Courts the term 'expert' was taken very seriously indeed. Sometimes a defendant would claim to be an expert on something and the Clerk would say 'No, you are not an expert recognised by the Court.'

In a legal context an 'Expert' is called or appointed by the Court. That's the standard we should look to.
As long as one doesn't automatically assume qualifications = expert. Practical experience should count as well.
 

Cochise

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The Courts have lists of experts to call on, they don't summon any old charlatan.
I know that historically they called on people with experience rather than box ticking. I recall Churchill the firearms expert.

On the other hand not so long ago I attended a trial where the alleged IT 'expert' - about 25 - knew sod all. If they'd let me cross examine him I'd have reduced him to quivering jelly.
 
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Nosmo King

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It seems the 1st AD on the set of 'Rust', Dave Halls, has previously been fired from another production over gun safety violations.

"The producers of Freedom's Path confirmed to AFP on Monday that Halls had been dismissed in 2019.


It came after a crew member "incurred a minor and temporary injury when a gun was unexpectedly discharged", the statement said"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59055138
 

escargot

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It seems the 1st AD on the set of 'Rust', Dave Halls, has previously been fired from another production over gun safety violations.

"The producers of Freedom's Path confirmed to AFP on Monday that Halls had been dismissed in 2019.


It came after a crew member "incurred a minor and temporary injury when a gun was unexpectedly discharged", the statement said"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59055138
It's looking worse and worse.
 

escargot

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This Sky News page has photos and video of the crew at work. Baldwin and Hutchins are standing worryingly close together.

More interestingly though, there is mention of the guns and ammunition on the site. It sounds - to me, admittedly (and gladly) knowing little of such matters- as if the firearms situation was out of control.

Alec Baldwin film shooting: Photo emerges of Halyna Hutchins on set before fatal accident

Santa Fe County District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies told the New York Times an "enormous amount of bullets" had been found on the set and an investigation was needed into the nature of that ammunition.

She also said it was incorrect to refer to the firearm used in the accident on the set of a western film as a "prop gun".

"It was a legit gun," Ms Carmack-Altwies said. "It was an antique-era appropriate gun."
 

cycleboy2

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My old manager used to say "Never trust anyone who calls themselves an expert."
I sometimes get called an 'expert' on cycling and it's a term I'm not comfortable with. I ride bikes, I've written about cycling for 25 years but I'd never choose to call myself an 'expert', as it feels like one then becomes a hostage to fortune. Unless I get a five-minute slot on C5 like a I did two decades ago – when I was paid £100 plus a night in a four-star hotel in London to talk about drugs in cycling. Yep, I might call myself an 'expert' in those circumstances!

As to the shooting on the film set, it boggles the mind that guns used on set are also used for shooting live rounds in down times. It's madness that anybody could think that might be a good idea. My favourite phrase? "What could possibly go wrong?" Unbelievable.
 

Tigerhawk

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The Courts have lists of experts to call on, they don't summon any old charlatan.
Yeah, this is the only charlatan worth summoning!

maxresdefault-3.jpg
 

escargot

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Yeah, this is the only charlatan worth summoning!

View attachment 47286
Y'know, there's a current Radio 4 series on slime which mentions the above hunky cove in the context of Lovecraft's supposed distaste for the female form and sexuality.

Slime: A Natural History

Book of the Week. Sirine Saba reads from Susanne Wedlich's ground-breaking new book which leads us on a journey through the three-billion-year history of slime.

Cthulhu pops up in Episode 2.
It's like the way M.R. James expressed his fear of spiders in his stories. Writers can't help it.
 
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