Strange Deaths

Tigerhawk

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Yeah, this is the only charlatan worth summoning!

View attachment 47286
Y'know, there's a current Radio 4 series on slime which mentions the above hunky cove in the context of Lovecraft's supposed distaste for the female form and sexuality.

Slime: A Natural History



Cthulhu pops up in Episode 2.
It's like the way M.R. James expressed his fear of spiders in his stories. Writers can't help it.
The shot of Cthulhu reminds me of The Clash Of The Titans for some reason...
 

Xanatic*

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I think she means this photo.
 

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GNC

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Y'know, there's a current Radio 4 series on slime which mentions the above hunky cove in the context of Lovecraft's supposed distaste for the female form and sexuality.

Slime: A Natural History



Cthulhu pops up in Episode 2.
It's like the way M.R. James expressed his fear of spiders in his stories. Writers can't help it.

Reminds me of Ramsey Campbell's description of his grim childhood in the introduction to his cult classic horror novel The Face That Must Die. I won't go into details, but he did grow up to be happily married once out of the grip of his mother's influence, so it's not necessarily a given that writers leave their psychology on the page.
 

escargot

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As to the shooting on the film set, it boggles the mind that guns used on set are also used for shooting live rounds in down times. It's madness that anybody could think that might be a good idea. My favourite phrase? "What could possibly go wrong?" Unbelievable.
Yup, the gun/ammunition situation was out of control. Nobody was stopping people using the guns with real ammo to pass the time.
One suspects the inexperienced armourer was not up to saying 'no' to people.
 

Mythopoeika

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I sometimes get called an 'expert' on cycling and it's a term I'm not comfortable with. I ride bikes, I've written about cycling for 25 years but I'd never choose to call myself an 'expert', as it feels like one then becomes a hostage to fortune.
The problem with calling yourself an 'expert' is that people try to catch you out, then say 'you're not an expert'.
 

GNC

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The problem with calling yourself an 'expert' is that people try to catch you out, then say 'you're not an expert'.

I'd say the actual problem was that while you can call yourself an expert if you know your subject inside out, there's always an amateur who can call themselves an expert when they really don't know much at all. Talk is cheap. It can be tricky to tell the difference, especially if you're under pressure at work... on a film set, for example.
 

escargot

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Reminds me of Ramsey Campbell's description of his grim childhood in the introduction to his cult classic horror novel The Face That Must Die. I won't go into details, but he did grow up to be happily married once out of the grip of his mother's influence, so it's not necessarily a given that writers leave their psychology on the page.
You do know he's a horror writer? :chuckle:
 

escargot

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I'd say the actual problem was that while you can call yourself an expert if you know your subject inside out, there's always an amateur who can call themselves an expert when they really don't know much at all. Talk is cheap. It can be tricky to tell the difference, especially if you're under pressure at work... on a film set, for example.
The problem here might not have been how proficient the expert was, rather that she wasn't up to supervising the guns.
Allowing crew members to randomly shoot the guns and ammo that she was in charge of was abdicating responsibility.
She shouldn't have trusted anyone else to touch them.
 

Nosmo King

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The problem here might not have been how proficient the expert was, rather that she wasn't up to supervising the guns.
Allowing crew members to randomly shoot the guns and ammo that she was in charge of was abdicating responsibility.
She shouldn't have trusted anyone else to touch them.
I would imagine an experienced armourer would have all the guns and ammo under lock and key when not being used in the production, I know I would in that position.
 

escargot

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I would imagine an experienced armourer would have all the guns and ammo under lock and key when not being used in the production, I know I would in that position.
I would too.
Of course. The armourer is responsible and accidents are on their head. You'd be mad or just incompetent to let the guns out of your sight.
 

Tigerhawk

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maximus otter

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It now transpires that Baldwin’s revolver was a fully-functional, i.e. not manufactured or adapted solely to fire blanks, copy of a Colt Single Action Army revolver in .45 “Long” Colt calibre. The revolver was made by Pietta, an Italian company with a major presence in the USA.

Pietta make a wide range of repro revolvers. The one used in the fatal incident may, repeat may, have been one of these. (This is a guess by me, and not based on any info.)

The operation of the Colt SAA is primitive by today’s standards. Unlike today’s revolvers, the cylinder does not pop out of the frame to facilitate loading/unloading cartridges and quick safety inspections.

FF to about 1:00 to see the operating system:


This photo is allegedly the last one taken, shortly before the incident:

Baldwin-Rust-Fortean.jpg


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...arges-table-baldwin-shooting-prosecutor-says/

maximus otter
 
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PeteS

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Yup, the gun/ammunition situation was out of control. Nobody was stopping people using the guns with real ammo to pass the time.
One suspects the inexperienced armourer was not up to saying 'no' to people.
I can well imagine "important" people telling her "gizza a gun then love" would get their way, to be fair. Comes with employing people with insufficient knowledge and experience, as you say.
 

RaM

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You have to remember that the laws and practices of what goes on with guns in the USA
have no resemblance to what we are used to in the UK.
:omr:
 

Bigphoot2

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There's an article on the Variety website about gun safety in European movies and television
In the U.K., the guidelines set out by the government’s Health and Safety at Work Act state that “the use of live ammunition is normally prohibited [on set] unless used under Home Office or Ministry of Defense regulations or under the privileges of the license or approval and permission from the police, eg. on a firing range.”

Christopher Deacon is a partner and international injury lawyer at U.K. law firm Stewarts, the firm that successfully acted on behalf of British stuntwoman Olivia Jackson after she sustained injuries while filming “Resident Evil: The Final Chapter” in South Africa.

Said Deacon: “If live firearms are being used, then it’s a requirement to have a registered firearms dealer or license holder present, and that reflects the regulatory requirements in the U.K. for possessing and using a firearm, regardless of the setting in which that’s being used.”

The U.K. has clear guidelines governing the use of firearms, whether real or replica, on set, with several publications available to film and TV crews. In and around London, where a lot of U.K. filming is concentrated, a police presence is usually required for scenes involving live or blank ammunition. The police and the local borough film service have to be provided with a full and comprehensive risk assessment.

Top armorer Richard Howell, from prop providers Foxtrot Production, says the safety situation in the U.K. has been getting “better and better” over the last 20-25 years driven largely by health and safety requirements implemented by broadcasters BBC and ITV across departments, including armory.

“It’s worked really well, because it made us prepare a lot better before we actually went on set,” Howell told Variety. “We had copies of the scripts to go through, we did a breakdown with the firearms, and you’d have an understanding of what the director was requesting. And then you actually write up your story, what the risks were — high, medium, low — and then you send them off. It’s gotten better and better over the years.”

Howell said restrictors or plugs in gun barrels are important to prevent accidents, as well as managing the camera angles so weapons aren’t pointing directly at the camera.

“Nobody ever, ever is in front of a firearm being fired; the cameras are set up to cheat the scene,” said Howell. “You set the whole thing up, and the camera’s just slightly off. It can certainly be remoted [activated by remote control] if there’s any perceived danger, and that’s certainly the decision of the armorer on set.”
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-prop-gun-weapons-masters-europe-1235098549/
 

escargot

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You have to remember that the laws and practices of what goes on with guns in the USA
have no resemblance to what we are used to in the UK.
:omr:
Absolutely. One could think of ten differences right away; hell, I could make ten up and they'd probably be true.

Here are some I've thought up off the cuff -

1. Most Americans have handled a gun - most Brits have not.
2. Off-duty American movie crews are inclined to entertain themselves with spontaneous target-shooting - almost no British ones do.
3. American guns on movie sets are habitually left around for people to borrow and play with and are not checked before use - access to guns on British movie sets is strictly controlled.
4.There is a small but significant statistical chance of being accidentally shot dead in most American work and social situations - almost zero chance in Britain.

etc
 

maximus otter

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Absolutely. One could think of ten differences right away; hell, I could make ten up and they'd probably be true.

Here are some I've thought up off the cuff -

1. Most Americans have handled a gun - most Brits have not.
2. Off-duty American movie crews are inclined to entertain themselves with spontaneous target-shooting - almost no British ones do.
3. American guns on movie sets are habitually left around for people to borrow and play with and are not checked before use - access to guns on British movie sets is strictly controlled.
4.There is a small but significant statistical chance of being accidentally shot dead in most American work and social situations - almost zero chance in Britain.

etc

1. No. I'm damned if I can trace the stats, but only a small minority of Americans who join the armed services or police have ever even handled a firearm before they sign up.

2. That's an allegation based on as-yet-unsubstantiated stories about this incident.

3. No.

4. In the USA, if you're not involved in drugs and/or gangs, your chance of being involved in a shooting drop to near-European levels.

maximus otter
 

RaM

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Friend of mine pulled up outside our house when I was in the garden,
Look at this, a bullet hole in is drivers door, it had gone through the
door passed maybe a inch over his legs and a few inches from is body
then out the other side,
He worked in Moss Side Manchester, he changed is job.


:omr:
 

escargot

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Friend of mine pulled up outside our house when I was in the garden,
Look at this, a bullet hole in is drivers door, it had gone through the
door passed maybe a inch over his legs and a few inches from is body
then out the other side,
He worked in Moss Side Manchester, he changed is job.


:omr:
Did he notice at the time? Was he in the car?
Have to say that'd have me changing my job too. o_O

Although I did live in Moss Side for a while and had no trouble. This was the late '70s though so perhaps the place wasn't as tooled up.
 

Gizmos Mama

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As long as one doesn't automatically assume qualifications = expert. Practical experience should count as well.

This!!

I think a bigger problem generally, (in my work, anyway) is a bunch of managers with degrees thinking that makes them the expert. When, as a person with no formal post-secondary education, but 20 years doing the thing, they are not making smart (or even practical) decisions.

As a trainer, I've recently been told by managers that anyone can train anything, and no experience is needed (as long as the material is prepared well) ??

Dunning-Kruger is rampant in the middle managment in my field. And it seems, a lot of others these days.
 

Mikefule

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Absolutely. One could think of ten differences right away; hell, I could make ten up and they'd probably be true.

Here are some I've thought up off the cuff -

1. Most Americans have handled a gun - most Brits have not.
According to my reading on the subject, there are more guns in America than there are people but, importantly, most people do not own a gun. Put simply, a large number of guns in a small number of hands.

Compared to European figures, and from an outsider's point of view, America's relationship with the gun may seem crazy. However, most Americans have no relationship with the gun.

For comparison/illustration: In the UK, the most likely weapon in a killing or serious injury is some form of knife despite certain types of knife being very tightly regulated or subject to outright bans. Pretty much every Briton other than very young children has access to sharp knives every day because knives are also tools. However, the number of attacks with knives is small compared to the population, and is largely concentrated in certain parts of the community, and in domestic incidents.
 
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