Strange Deaths

[cycleboy2]

Talk about thin walls.

I thought the same thing. I don't know much about guns but I'm guessing the wall wasn't solid stone or brick, which I'd have thought would have lowered the velocity by quite an amount.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I thought the same thing. I don't know much about guns but I'm guessing the wall wasn't solid stone or brick, which I'd have thought would have lowered the velocity by quite an amount.

There are weapons that can shoot through brick walls (i.e. 'anti-materiel' rifles, which are typically .50 cal) - but I suspect it was probably a building mostly made of wood, hence the ease of penetration.

 

[SimonBurchell]

There are weapons that can shoot through brick walls (i.e. 'anti-materiel' rifles, which are typically .50 cal) - but I suspect it was probably a building mostly made of wood, hence the ease of penetration.

During the Troubles in Northern Ireland, British Army bullets would cut through walls like they weren't there - I remember reading about a little boy killed in his flat by army gunfire that tore through his building, the account I read was quite graphic, horrible.

 

[Trevp666]

Yes, I think Max has some 'gen' on shooting through stuff.
AFAIK a regular handgun or small calibre rifle will not penetrate a typical UK brick wall, but anything of a larger size has a fairly decent chance of getting through a single bond of bricks. Cavity walls not so much.

 

[EnolaGaia]

An Australian man was killed when he allegedly drove over a speed bump and apparently triggered an explosive vest he was wearing.

Australian reportedly killed when explosive vest detonates

Police say they are investigating the death of a man who was reportedly killed when an explosive vest he was wearing detonated while he was driving his car in a suburban street in the Australian city of Melbourne

By ROD McGUIRK Associated Press January 24, 2022, 5:27 PM

Police said on Tuesday they were investigating the death of a man who was reportedly killed when an explosive vest he was wearing detonated while he was driving his car in a suburban street in the Australian city of Melbourne.

The vest was understood to have been triggered by the car hitting a speed bump ...

Security camera video showed the flash of the explosion rise about the car's roof and from the driver’s side window. A speed bump wasn't apparent in the video.

The car continued to travel a few hundred meters before it hit a parked vehicle ...

A 43-year-old man from the suburb of Dandenong was found dead inside his car, which also contained “explosive items,” police said. Police have not released his name.

“Bomb Response Unit members attended due to explosive items located inside the vehicle and it took a considerable amount of time for the Bomb Response Unit to render these items safe " ...

“The circumstances surrounding his death are under investigation by the Arson and Explosives Squad and it is not being treated as suspicious,” police said. The term “not suspicious” means police do not consider the man was a victim of a crime. ...

Police did not say where the man was heading. He had visited the home of his ex-partner immediately before his death ...

FULL STORY: https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...edly-killed-explosive-vest-detonates-82448295

 

[escargot]

An Australian man was killed when he allegedly drove over a speed bump and apparently triggered an explosive vest he was wearing.

FULL STORY: https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...edly-killed-explosive-vest-detonates-82448295

Other sources call the device a 'homemade bomb'. There is speculation about where he was going with it. Someone's had a lucky escape.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Other sources call the device a 'homemade bomb'. There is speculation about where he was going with it.

Yep - I suspect there's an interesting - and possibly convoluted - back story waiting to be uncovered in all this.

Someone's had a lucky escape.

Whoever it was, it wasn't him.

 

[maximus otter]

Yes, I think Max has some 'gen' on shooting through stuff.
AFAIK a regular handgun or small calibre rifle will not penetrate a typical UK brick wall, but anything of a larger size has a fairly decent chance of getting through a single bond of bricks. Cavity walls not so much.

A lengthy presentation by an ex-Green Beret and a US Navy SEAL on the effect of various projectiles on different wall types. FF to 2:50 for the info:

maximus otter

 

[Trevp666]

Yeah interesting. So bottom line really is that it is only the larger projectiles that will make it through brick walls.
Also interesting that US construction techniques clearly differ from UK ones quite significantly sometimes.
I would have thought the 'dry wall' (plasterboard) would offer little resistance to anything really, seeing as I fell against a plasterboard wall once and my hand went straight through it and out the other side.
I remember seeing something once about how tank armour is made and they pointed out that they incorporate cavities in the armour as these slow down projectiles by dissipating the energy with each subsequent impact with the next layer, rather than one solid piece that can fragment when hit.

 

[Floyd1]

Yeah interesting. So bottom line really is that it is only the larger projectiles that will make it through brick walls.
Also interesting that US construction techniques clearly differ from UK ones quite significantly sometimes.
I would have thought the 'dry wall' (plasterboard) would offer little resistance to anything really, seeing as I fell against a plasterboard wall once and my hand went straight through it and out the other side.
I remember seeing something once about how tank armour is made and they pointed out that they incorporate cavities in the armour as these slow down projectiles by dissipating the energy with each subsequent impact with the next layer, rather than one solid piece that can fragment when hit.

They seem to use a lot of 9'' 'concrete hollows' over there in certain states- garden walls etc- where as here they are used more for farm sheds/ out-buildings etc and especially retaining walls as you can fill them with poured concrete and re-bar as well.
When not filled with concrete they are quite weak though. A good tap with a hammer will break them. Even 4'' 'concrete solids' would as well, but I bet they would offer better protection than an un-filled 9'' hollow.

 

[hunck]

Driver arrested for murder after knifeman ‘hit by car while stabbing woman’​

In Maida Vale.

A bystander said the hooded and masked man appeared to lie in wait in a park before pouncing on the woman as she walked down a nearby street. Police said the attacker was known to the victim.

Mo Ahmed, 26, who works in a grocer’s shop close to the scene said: ‘In the morning I heard a loud scream and looked outside, where I saw someone attacking a girl who looked English.

‘He stabbed her a lot and he was scaring everyone. People tried to help the girl and pull her out but he was scaring everyone with a knife.’
Mr Ahmed then said the attacker was run over by a car.

Raad Jiyad, 52, told the Evening Standard that he had tried to distract the attacker despite the fact that he had a large knife.
He told the newspaper: ‘I saw a man over a woman with a knife, I saw the blade. I heard her screaming in pain.

‘I wanted to try and make him come towards me instead to buy her some time. We tried to save her.

‘He had this big knife so no-one wanted to go near.’

Mr Jiyad said the attack ended when the man was hit by a car and he went ‘completely underneath it.’

Bystanders said the woman was also partially under the car but they managed to free her and start performing CPR before she died a short while later.

Detective Chief Inspector Jim Eastwood said: ‘This was a terrible incident that occurred in broad daylight on a busy London street. It also appears that a number of members of the public bravely tried to intervene to stop the attack.

‘A man has been arrested in relation to the case; we are not aware of any links between this man and the two deceased.

 

[cycleboy2]

A lengthy presentation by an ex-Green Beret and a US Navy SEAL on the effect of various projectiles on different wall types. FF to 2:50 for the info:

maximus otter

I haven't watched all of it, but the properly built external walls seemed to be pretty tough, which would suggest the external wall in the original case was very flimsy.

 

[Trevp666]

I'm guessing that there are 'clapboard' buildings in Atlanta.
That style of construction would provide very little resistance to a bullet.

 

[hunck]

Driver arrested for murder after knifeman ‘hit by car while stabbing woman’​

In Maida Vale.

A bystander said the hooded and masked man appeared to lie in wait in a park before pouncing on the woman as she walked down a nearby street. Police said the attacker was known to the victim.

Mo Ahmed, 26, who works in a grocer’s shop close to the scene said: ‘In the morning I heard a loud scream and looked outside, where I saw someone attacking a girl who looked English.

‘He stabbed her a lot and he was scaring everyone. People tried to help the girl and pull her out but he was scaring everyone with a knife.’
Mr Ahmed then said the attacker was run over by a car.

Maida Vale deaths: Man who killed Yasmin Chkaifi was wanted by police​

An arrest warrant had been issued at the start of January for a man killed when he was hit by the driver of a car who was apparently trying to stop him stabbing his ex-wife.

Leon McCaskre, 41, was run over after killing Yasmin Chkaifi, 43, in Maida Vale, west London, on Monday.
The warrant, saying he should be held without bail, was issued on 4 January after he failed to appear in court.

Ms Chkaifi told a friend two years ago she thought she would die at her ex-husband's hands, it has emerged.

Adele-Sara Richards said Ms Chkaifi, who she knew as Yaz, messaged her in April 2020 to say: "He's had cameras in my house recording me for months."
She added: "He's stolen my mail, my phone, has access to all my personal data. I think he will kill me. I've tried everything.”

Westminster Magistrates' Court, which issued the arrest warrant on 4 January, heard the breach related to an alleged physical approach to Ms Chkaifi. McCaskre was also barred from making contact by phone, email, text or social media.

McCaskre, who police said had stabbed Ms Chkaifi on Chippenham Road, was hit by a car driven by a 26-year-old man. He was arrested on suspicion of murder and subsequently bailed until late February.

The Met Police, which would not comment on whether McCaskre was ever arrested over the alleged stalking protection order breach, said the force had referred itself to the police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).

The Met had already confirmed that the stalking order had been obtained against McCaskre.

An IOPC spokesperson said: "We can confirm that we have received a referral from the Metropolitan Police regarding their contact with Yasmin Chkaifi prior to her tragic death in Maida Vale, London, on 24 January.

"We are currently assessing the available information, and have requested more, to determine what further action may be required from us."

 

[Victory]

Following on from above posts by @hunck

"Thousands sign petition demanding Chechen electrician, 26, does NOT face charges for mowing down and killing crazed knifeman as he brutally stabbed mother-of-two to death"​

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...abbed-death-Maida-Vale-brand-driver-hero.html

 

[Cochise]

Following on from above posts by @hunck

"Thousands sign petition demanding Chechen electrician, 26, does NOT face charges for mowing down and killing crazed knifeman as he brutally stabbed mother-of-two to death"​

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...abbed-death-Maida-Vale-brand-driver-hero.html

The circumstances do need investigating though. What if the driver had misjudged the situation or run over someone innocent as well?

I believe there is an option not to pursue charges as 'not in the public interest' which may be the right thing to do if he acted out of desperation as the only way to save the poor lady.

 

[SimonBurchell]

The circumstances do need investigating though. What if the driver had misjudged the situation or run over someone innocent as well?

I believe there is an option not to pursue charges as 'not in the public interest' which may be the right thing to do if he acted out of desperation as the only way to save the poor lady.

Yes, trial by petition does not seem a good way forward...

 

[Trevp666]

If the CPS pursues a prosecution of the guy then the judge can give direction over the findings in the case (if it were in front of a jury) along with 'mitigating circumstances' before deciding on sentencing options. These can then be looked into further and there are other avenues to explore too, such as appeals, 'mis-trials', and suspensions of sentences, along with the 'not in the public interest' and the little used 'weight of public opinion', which although not a legally binding factor, if millions of people were to (eg) sign an official petition, it would carry some influence.

 

[Trevp666]

And in his defence, he was acting in extremis so was hardly likely to stop and ask questions first - I always think back to a 'Dirty Harry' quote....
"When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross..."

 

[EnolaGaia]

A Florida woman walking her bicycle across a large drawbridge died when the bridge began opening, she dropped through a gap in the road surface, and she fell circa 50 feet into the water below after another pedestrian couldn't maintain a grip on her.

Woman falls to her death from rising drawbridge in downtown West Palm Beach

A woman fell to her death Sunday afternoon from the Royal Park Bridge connecting Palm Beach to downtown West Palm Beach when the drawbridge began opening before she could move off its moveable span, police said.

West Palm Beach police say the woman was walking off the bridge with a bicycle and was within 10 feet of the barrier arms that halt traffic when the drawbridge started to rise, sending her careening into an open chasm.

A man standing on the other side of the barrier arms grabbed her as she fell but could not sustain her grip, police said. She plummeted more than 50 feet.

“She was walking her bike from east to west and had almost reached the furthest point of the moveable span when it went up,” police spokesman Mike Jachles said. “He tried to help her but he wasn’t able to hold onto her and she fell about five to six stories below.” ...

Detectives now are investigating why the drawbridge began to rise before all pedestrians had a chance to clear it. ...

FULL STORY (With Photos): https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...ffic-after-bicyclists-deadly-fall/6685145001/

 

[EnolaGaia]

A middle-aged man in Peoria (Illinois) disappeared from his family home on 2 February. He was discovered, dead from exposure, in a dugout at a baseball field only a few blocks away.

Missing 54-year-old Peoria man found dead in baseball field dugout

A Peoria man who was reported missing by his family Monday was found dead Tuesday, Peoria County Coroner Jamie Harwood said.

Von Fitzpatrick, 54, of Peoria, was found in the dugout of a baseball field ... , and was "obviously deceased" when police arrived around 3:40 p.m., Harwood said.

An autopsy determined Fitzpatrick died of prolonged cold exposure.

No foul play is expected, and a toxicology report is pending, Harwood added. ...

Police earlier said Fitzpatrick last had been seen the morning of Feb. 2 less than two blocks away ...

FULL STORY: https://www.pjstar.com/story/news/2...-found-dead-baseball-field-dugout/6727073001/

 

[maximus otter]

If the CPS pursues a prosecution of the guy then the judge can give direction over the findings in the case (if it were in front of a jury) along with 'mitigating circumstances' before deciding on sentencing options. These can then be looked into further and there are other avenues to explore too, such as appeals, 'mis-trials', and suspensions of sentences, along with the 'not in the public interest' and the little used 'weight of public opinion', which although not a legally binding factor, if millions of people were to (eg) sign an official petition, it would carry some influence.

As we now know, Abraham will not face prosecution for the killing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...two-feared-stalker-ex-husband-attack-her.html

I’m surprised and dismayed that it took as long as it did to make the decision not to prosecute. At the start of every shift (IIRC) our Firearms boys had s.3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 read out to them:

“A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.”

I’ve long admired a quote from a famous American jurist in a case of self-defence. Oliver Wendell Holmes said:

“Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.”

Abraham did what he felt, on the spur of the moment, was necessary to defend the victim. Tragically, through no fault of his own, it was too late.

maximus otter

 

[PeteS]

As we now know, Abraham will not face prosecution for the killing:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...two-feared-stalker-ex-husband-attack-her.html

I’m surprised and dismayed that it took as long as it did to make the decision not to prosecute. At the start of every shift (IIRC) our Firearms boys had s.3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 read out to them:

“A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.”

I’ve long admired a quote from a famous American jurist in a case of self-defence. Oliver Wendell Holmes said:

“Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.”

Abraham did what he felt, on the spur of the moment, was necessary to defend the victim. Tragically, through no fault of his own, it was too late.

maximus otter

A yawning great grey area though. The concept of what constitutes reasonable force will vary from person to person, and ultimately if it comes to it will be decided by the court. I have no problem with criminals being severely injured or coming to a sticky end while committing a crime, violent or not, though.
It's unfortunate that the driver of the car will have to live with the consequences of his actions and hope that he can come to terms with it. I would have probably done the same.

 

[Trevp666]

Yeah it's all in the wording.

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances

This begs the question "Who decides what is 'reasonable'?" I expect he considered it reasonable in the circumstances, which is what should matter, not what somebody decides at some later time would have been reasonable.
I had a similar debate in a place I used to work in which, in the contract of employment, in the description of the responsibilities of the role they included the phrase "and any other reasonable duties".
When I was asked to do some overtime one evening and I said 'no' (because I didn't particularly like the new boss and their attitude towards the staff, and their interpretation of what 'flexible' meant - they thought it meant paying you for 35 hours each week but always expecting you to work 45) I was 'given a disciplinary' the following week, in which they tried to tell me that I had refused to do 'reasonable' extra hours, as per the contract.
Their argument lost all it's weight when I said "Well, I didn't think it was reasonable".

 

[maximus otter]

"Who decides what is 'reasonable'?"

https://hillarycooperlaw.co.uk/wanted-the-reasonable-man/

maximus otter

 

[Trevp666]

https://hillarycooperlaw.co.uk/wanted-the-reasonable-man/

maximus otter

Interesting stuff, despite some grammatical and spelling errors (grr). It does however appear to be specifically referring to cases of law in which the notional 'reasonable person' is invoked, not whether or not an action or actions is/are deemed 'reasonable'.
As contained within the article, 'a reasonable person' might be considered to do, or have to do, something that is in itself unreasonable when considering all factors, some of which might not be known to that person.

I will maintain in all future encounters that affect my existence, when I am in a situation in which whether or not something is 'reasonable' that it is I that shall make the determination of what I consider reasonable. I haven't done at all badly in life following that assumption.

 

[Erinaceus]

Update on the family found dead on a hiking trail in California.

https://kmph.com/news/local/maripos...final-update-on-death-of-gerrish-chung-family

"Text Message Attempt:

The following text message was attempted but not successful due to not having cellular service on the area.

11:56am – “ can you help us. On savage lundy trail heading back to Hites cove trail. No water or ver (over) heating with baby.”"

 

[brownmane]

Update on the family found dead on a hiking trail in California.

https://kmph.com/news/local/maripos...final-update-on-death-of-gerrish-chung-family

"Text Message Attempt:

The following text message was attempted but not successful due to not having cellular service on the area.

11:56am – “ can you help us. On savage lundy trail heading back to Hites cove trail. No water or ver (over) heating with baby.”"

The record of attempted, and failed, calls all within a couple of minutes is very sad.

 

[EnolaGaia]

A Penn State college student's body was discovered at a landfill last November. After an investigation, the authorities have ruled her death an accident caused by falling 11 stories down her apartment building's trash chute. Evidence indicates she was under the influence of alcohol and marijuana, and surveillance videos show her wandering to the floor above her own in the apartment block then entering the trash chute room never to be seen exiting.

Police rule out foul play in death of N.J. college student who fell down trash chute

Police have completed their investigation and ruled out foul play in the death of Justine Gross, the Penn State student who plunged 11 stories down a trash chute after partying with a man at her off-campus apartment in November.

Gross, 19, of Summit, died from “multiple acute blunt force trauma, due to a fall” that was the result of an “accident,” police in State College, Pa. said a statement released late Thursday. ...

State College Police and the Centre County Coroner’s Office held a teleconference with Justine’s parents on Wednesday to discuss results of the autopsy, which showed marijuana and alcohol in Gross’ liver tissue at the time of her death. Justine’s mother Francoise Gross said police were operating on the theory that Justine had smoked a “blunt” with a man in his apartment before plunging to her death.

“She went headfirst down the trash chute and fractured her skull,” Francoise Gross told NJ Advance Media following the teleconference. “They say she died instantly.” ...

Francoise was told by the coroner’s office that tissue samples taken from her daughter’s liver showed traces of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, and an “elevated” level of alcohol. ...

State College police say they were first notified that Justine was missing at 5:15 p.m. Nov. 11. Her body was discovered at a local recycling center at 2:45 a.m. the following morning ...

State College police later showed [her mother] a sequence of surveillance videos in which Justine is first seen entering the seventh-floor apartment. She is seen leaving about 40 minutes later with a man, walking unsteadily with a water bottle and rubbing her face.

The video next shows Justine and the man on the 10th floor. But instead of dropping Justine off at her apartment, the man leaves her in the hallway. The video sequence next shows Justine on the 11th floor, barefoot and alone as she rushes into the chute room and is not seen again ...

FULL STORY: https://www.nj.com/union/2022/02/wo...ge-had-consumed-pot-alcohol-autopsy-says.html

 

[ramonmercado]

A Penn State college student's body was discovered at a landfill last November. After an investigation, the authorities have ruled her death an accident caused by falling 11 stories down her apartment building's trash chute. Evidence indicates she was under the influence of alcohol and marijuana, and surveillance videos show her wandering to the floor above her own in the apartment block then entering the trash chute room never to be seen exiting.

FULL STORY: https://www.nj.com/union/2022/02/wo...ge-had-consumed-pot-alcohol-autopsy-says.html

Life imitating art, that happened in an episode of CSI.