Strange Deaths

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INT21

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I have seen this 'reverse pool pump' problem for myself.
Some years back when on holiday I Greece I noticed that the surface of the apartment pool was very dirty. Lots of leaves etc floating about on the surface, but not drifting towards the edges. Also there was no 'turbulence' on the surface that used to occur above the water inlet on the bottom of the pool. I mentioned it to the owners (I had been there a few times before) and they checked the pump. It was running backwards. Due to an incorrectly connected three phase wiring.

So if anyone was to get their foot across the 'outlet' grill at the bottom then it could be very hard to free it.
 

EnolaGaia

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If the girls hat was in the pump then the circulation was in reverse.
Not necessarily, if the swimming cap wasn't fully buoyant.

The cap was found on the drain, not inside the pump or piping.

The only news account I saw that described the bodies' discovery claimed they were floating. If the little girl (or any of them) had become stuck on the drain they would have remained there, all other things being the same.
 

EnolaGaia

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The whole thing is strange.
I have heard reports that non of the bodies were floating.
One never gets a straight story these days.
Agreed ... It seems there's a strange difference between the details some folks are alleged to have mentioned versus the general absence of anyone's claims about what happened or the immediate aftermath.

For example ...

The recent news item in which the widow disputed the daughter's claim specifically mentioned the father entered the pool via the steps, which include a handrail (see the photos). I find it strange that a person supposedly reacting to his child's crisis would "take the stairs" rather than jump / dive in.

The presence of the handrail afforded the father and son a secure anchor point for creating a hand-holding daisy chain to try and reach the girl.

The repeated statements indicating the girl got into trouble first suggest someone witnessed the sequence of events, but nobody has reported what that sequence seems to have been.
 

EnolaGaia

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The Garda Civil were very quick to give the pool the all clear and now we have contradictory stories emerging. Something odd going on here.
I hate to say it, but I'm not assuming the mother's claim (that the 3 victims knew how to swim) is reliable, much less the final word on the matter.

She (as opposed to the daughter who said they couldn't swim) is the one who has to worry about death-related arrangements, legalities, and financial burdens both now and for the long run. She's far from home and having to deal with 3 immediate family deaths.

It would be understandable if she felt compelled to refute the girl's claim just to keep the issue (and prospects for some sort of compensation) open.
 
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I hate to say it, but I'm not assuming the mother's claim (that the 3 victims knew how to swim) is reliable, much less the final word on the matter.

She (as opposed to the daughter who said they couldn't swim) is the one who has to worry about death-related arrangements, legalities, and financial burdens both now and for the long run. She's far from home and having to deal with 3 immediate family deaths.

It would be understandable if she felt compelled to refute the girl's claim just to keep the issue (and prospects for some sort of compensation) open.
Indeed there is conflicting narratives going around, the hotel, the Garda Civil, the mother all have skin in the game now.
 

Victory

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The Daily Mail mentioned that a hotel employee found it "difficult to exit the pool."

That is quite a vague statement, but if true one could expect the hotel employee to be able to swim more than they would not.

If the water was cold, then the people in the pool could have gone into Cold Water Shock which lead to their deaths.

I have experienced this, and it is quite unsettling to suddenly start hyperventilating.

From the below article:

"The sudden cooling of the skin by cold water also causes an involuntary gasp for breath. Breathing rates can change uncontrollably, sometimes increasing as much as tenfold. All these responses contribute to a feeling of panic, increasing the chance of inhaling water directly into the lungs.
This can all happen very quickly: it only takes half a pint of sea water to enter the lungs for a fully grown man to start drowning."

https://rnli.org/safety/know-the-risks/cold-water-shock
 

PeteS

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Wonder how deep it was, surprising how many drown when all they had to do was stand up.
when I was at school we were taken swimming once a week don't suppose they do that now,
what a shame when things like this happen when all they are doing is having a holiday.
Yes schools still take pupils swimming but there's always going to be someone who can't get the hang of it.
A few things I find bit strange. No cctv on the pool? (not been to one of these resorts for years so don't know if cctv is allowed). Were the three the only ones in or by the pool? A bit unusual that. No shallow end for kids to play in? Seems unlikely that even a struggling child would be able to drown two others in these circs especially if mother says all 3 could swim. All in all a very strange set of circumstances, perhaps autopsy will reveal all. Truly dreadful for mum.
 

EnolaGaia

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No cctv on the pool? ...
Here's what I find really odd ... In one of the early news stories it was stated that the hotel didn't keep a lifeguard on duty, apparently because the pool wasn't considered dangerous. That's strange enough in and of itself, but ... I can't figure out why - in the absence of an attending lifeguard - there wasn't a life preserver (ring) or similar item posted by the pool. It would seem the safety regulations and / or fears of litigation are much smaller concerns there.

Were the three the only ones in or by the pool? ...
I still waiting for clarification on this point. Some "witness" statements (as reported) seem to indicate people were nearby, but others begin the story line with screaming (apparently heard from some distance away from poolside).
 

RaM

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If they were on the bottom it's a good man that can get a flotation aide down to them and get it on,
fine if they are on the surface but have you ever tried to sink one.

One thing does make me wonder if they were dragged out pretty smartly how come they could
not get a restart on at least one,
 

EnolaGaia

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If they were on the bottom it's a good man that can get a flotation aide down to them and get it on,fine if they are on the surface but have you ever tried to sink one.

One thing does make me wonder if they were dragged out pretty smartly how come they could not get a restart on at least one,
I've yet to see any news account claiming the 3 were submerged when first discovered. I've seen only one or two that stated the bodies were floating.

The only accounts mentioning immediate actions stated resuscitation / CPR was undertaken immediately and continued after emergency responders arrived. It does seem odd that none of the three could be revived if others had heard them screaming and reacted immediately.

The key mystery remains the sequence of events ...
 

Victory

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One thing does make me wonder if they were dragged out pretty smartly how come they could
not get a restart on at least one,
Could a chemical have been involved?
It seems unlikely that they would have been overwhelmed by fumes in an outdoor pool, but might there have been too much chlorine in there?
 

Mythopoeika

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Could a chemical have been involved?
It seems unlikely that they would have been overwhelmed by fumes in an outdoor pool, but might there have been too much chlorine in there?
That's a good point.
Or, conversely, suppose there was no chlorine in it at all? That would explain the non-floating bodies.
 

Mythopoeika

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At the risk of wishing I'd never asked, but for the further interests of this thread... why would a lack of chlorine mean the bodies don't float?
Saltwater provides a lot more buoyancy than freshwater. The chlorine is put in for 2 reasons - to kill bacteria and to act as a salt replacement, improving buoyancy. It's mostly for cleaning the pool, but a side benefit is the changed water density.
 

escargot

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Isn't that also why they close hotel swimming pools at night? Something to do with the cleaning and/or chemicals?
The chemicals have to be balanced all the time and samples are taken all through the day. First thing in the morning it all starts again.

At night many pools are cleaned with an underwater Hoover thing which goes round collecting plasters etc. These machines can't be used when swimmers are present. There's also often a cover that's placed over the pool to keep the heat in.
 

PeteS

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Could a chemical have been involved?
It seems unlikely that they would have been overwhelmed by fumes in an outdoor pool, but might there have been too much chlorine in there?
That's what I first thought of when I heard of the incident, but surely others would have been affected, unless of course the 3 were first in the pool after some change. Autopsy will no doubt reveal what was in their lungs. Being overcome by fumes or chemicals doesn't really gel with the screams being heard though (if in fact this is correct). The whole incident suffers from lack of precise information - it could be that people have been told to keep quiet until the official inquest is over.
 

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Deeply religious family? Around the time of a major Christian holiday? Screams heard? No witnesses in the area?

IMHO murder/suicide, unless someone has compelling evidence to the contrary of which l’m not aware.

maximus otter
 
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Deeply religious family? Around the time of a major Christian holiday? Screams heard? No witnesses in the area?

IMHO murder/suicide, unless someone has compelling evidence to the contrary of which l’m not aware.

maximus otter
Be interesting to see if the mother took out insurance policies on the others recently.
 
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