'Street Grooming': Oxford, Rochdale, Rotherham Etc.

Quake42

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#1
Surprised no one has posted this story as yet. Absolutely horrific story and the latest of a number of similar cases (dozens are going through the courts in Yorkshire at the moment).

I was in two minds about posting this in the Conspiracy thread as there does indeed seem to have been a conspiracy of silence about this problem for many years.

Oxford child sex abuse ring: social services failed me, says victim

A victim of a gang of men who enslaved young girls for sex on the backstreets of Oxford has told how she and her mother repeatedly begged social services staff to rescue her from their clutches.

Speaking exclusively to the Guardian, the woman known in court as Girl C accused Oxfordshire county council of continuing to lie about the support it has offered to the victims of the gang.

She described how the gang began to abuse her when she was 13, plied her with crack cocaine and threatened to cut off the head of her baby if she ever tried to escape them.

The woman spoke out as a jury at the Old Bailey convicted seven men responsible for running an underworld child sex abuse ring in the Cowley area of Oxford of 43 charges of rape, child prostitution, trafficking and procuring a backstreet abortion. Six victims gave harrowing evidence during the three-and-a-half month trial, but police believe the number of girls recruited by the gang and abused numbers more than 50.

The gang – who were of Asian and north African descent – targeted extremely vulnerable white girls as young as 11 on the streets of Cowley and sold them for £600 a time to be raped and violently abused over an eight-year period. Two other men were cleared by the jury.

A litany of failings by police and social services had allowed the men between 2004 and 2012 to groom young, vulnerable girls they met on the streets, outside schools and in cafes, entice them with the promise of alcohol and trinkets, and subject them over years to sexual atrocities and torture.

The heads of Thames Valley police and Oxfordshire county council apologised on Wednesday for their organisations' failures, but made clear they would not be resigning.

Girl C said her adoptive mother went to social services in 2004 to beg for help. She said: "Mum wrote to all the key people in social services, called her own case conferences, invited agencies and got them sitting around the table, but they just passed the parcel between them – and all the while, I was getting increasingly under the power and influence of the gang."

Two years later council agreed to put the girl in a temporary care home, but by then Girl C said: "It was too late: the grooming process had run its course. I was completely under their [the gang's] control."

Shortly after she was trafficked from Oxford to London for the first time, Girl C said, she had tried to talk to staff at the care home but was told the conversation was "inappropriate".

The seven men found guilty will be sentenced on 26 June. Judge Peter Rook QC told them: "You all understand that you've been convicted by the jury of the most serious offences. Long custodial sentences are inevitable."

It is understood that the police investigation is ongoing and a number of other individuals are suspected of being involved in an organised criminal gang trading in children. Seven men are on police bail, and more arrests and police raids are likely in the coming weeks, while Girl C also said that young girls were still being groomed, abused and trafficked by local gangs operating in the city.

The abuse echoes child sexual exploitation rings in Rochdale, Derby and Telford, where gangs of Asian men groomed young white girls for sex and prostitution. Victims were subjected to abuse that went on for days and involved the use of knives, meat cleavers and baseball bats. One girl was forced to undergo an illegal abortion at a backstreet clinic when she became pregnant by one of the abusers.

Professor Jenny Pearce of the University of Bedfordshire, said: "We cannot ignore that there is a model that exists where some white young women, who appear to be available and who appear to be vulnerable, can be preyed on by groups of Asian men of Pakistani origin who might be looking for sexual favours or who are linked to organised crime like drugs and who target these young women. But that doesn't mean … they are the only type of victims."

The men found guilty – Mohammed Karrar, his brother Bassam, Anjum and Akhtar Dogar, Zeeshan Ahmed, Kamir Jamil and Assad Hussain – all came from the Cowley area of Oxford and included two sets of brothers. They were well known in the area, attended the local mosque and had wives and children of their own. They were convicted of 43 offences over eight years, from 2004 to January 2012, involving six girls who were aged 11-15 years old at the time.

Mohammed Hussain, 25, was cleared of three counts of sexual activity with a child. A ninth defendant, who cannot be named, was cleared of a similar charge.

Victims turned to the police at least six times – four times in one year – but investigations were begun and then halted when the vulnerable girls withdrew complaints. One girl was threatened by the police that she would be charged with wasting police time over her repeated absences from a childrens' home.

Sara Thornton, the chief constable of Thames Valley police, was asked on BBC's Today programme if she had considered offering her resignation. "I think the focus for me is on driving improvements into the future. I'm sorry that it took so long. It's very difficult to get convictions in these sorts of cases.

"It is only because of the bravery of six young women that we got convictions at court yesterday. I thank each one of those individually."

She said the cases were originally looked at individually. "I don't think we understood the extent that the abuse was systematic and it was organised," she said. "It was only when we sat down, pooled our information with that of the social workers, that we began to piece together the picture which explained what was happening in terms of this criminal network in Oxford."

Joanna Simons, the chief executive of Oxfordshire county council, who has already apologised for the the council's failings, told BBC News: "My gut feeling is that I am not going to resign", despite her having "asked myself some very hard questions". She said an independent serious case review would look at the actions of all agencies concerned.

But Girl C remains unhappy with the council, criticising the single offer of help she says she received. She said: "The council put out a press release claiming they had offered wraparound care to all the girls and their families, but the first we heard from them in five years was a letter on 13 April from Jim Leivers [director for children, education and families at the council], where he says he's been 'closely involved in providing support' to me.

"That's a complete lie. My family have had no support or offers of help at all from Oxfordshire. Nothing. Not at any point. Not even a phone call. The last contact we had with the council was five whole years ago, when my mum was begging them to help her stop me go off the rails. They ignored her then and they've ignored us since."

A spokesman for the council said: "We are sorry the abuse was not stopped sooner. One of the elements of the serious case review will be an investigation of the support offered to the girls by agencies including social services.

"Our offer of a meeting with Girl [C] and her family was very sincere and similar offers to the other girls have been accepted. We want to do everything we can to help all the girls rebuild their lives and our door is open to Girl [C] and her family," he said.

The abuse was only exposed when a police officer proactively went out to build evidence against the men in 2010. Simon Morton, then detective chief inspector, put the men under surveillance, traced their phones, pulled every social services record of missing girls in Oxford who he thought were victims.

He said: "This was happening in Oxford – the city of dreaming spires. If it was happening there, the ramifications for all cities are huge."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/ ... l-services
 
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#2
The police. BBC etc. seem to be at great pains to constantly point out that this crime had nothing to do with the perpetrators being Asian Muslims. Whether this is true or not it strikes me that people are scared to address this detail at all and I wouldn't be surprised if this reluctance played a part in the police/social services etc. failing to act.
 

OneWingedBird

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#3
Sadly I think there are certain types of crime that seem to go with that culture, homophobic offenses being another of them... the police simply do not want to address these issues because someone is going to scream 'racist'.

I'm also reminded of the time a schoolteacher friend went to social services about one of her pupils that had a partner that was trying to pimp her...she claimed they told her to come back when he'd succeeded in doing it.

All a bit of a mess, really.
 

Quake42

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#4
I find it baffling that in the Oxford case police came across a drunk, drugged 14 year old girl in a room with a bunch of much older men and yet still did nothing.

Similarly in one of the other cases social workers defended their lack of action on the grounds that they believed a 13 year old girl had made a career decision to become a sex worker.

Truly beyond belief. Perhaps this does belong in Conspiracy.
 
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#5
I don't know about a conspiracy. As far as I can see, this case has less to do with, 'political correctness', cultural, or racial over-sensitivity and a lot more to do with the attitude to the victims. A lot of the time, whether it was the police, the social services, or the care homes involved, they all treated these young girls as if what happened to them was entirely their own fault.

Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall weren't Muslims, or foreigners, but they also preyed on their young victims not only because they could and because nobody stopped them, but also because nobody wanted to believe the victims.

An interesting opinion piece from Grace Dent in, The Independent:

How could so many years of horrendous abuse go unnoticed? In this case, the guilt extends way beyond Oxford sex traffickers
. This isn’t ‘cultural’. We have a problem that is predatory older men of every race


The last paragraph is particularly telling and frankly, hardly believable.
...

One night – it was revealed in court – a minicab driver took a girl back to her care home where the staff inside refused to pay her cab fare. She was driven back to Oxford, back to the gang, and raped. Our biggest cultural problem in this country is letting poor little girls down.
The real problem doesn't lie in other cultures, it lies in our own and it's not because we're too sensitive to race, or cultural differences. It's because too many of us think young people in trouble, get into it on purpose and deserve all they get.
 
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#6
I cannot help thinking that the violence and cruelty meted out was driven to some extent by their view of the girls as contemptible 'white infidel sluts'. The abuse was carried out by organised gangs and accompanied with violence, humiliation and torture. I don't think that can be easily compared with the crimes of Saville etc.
 
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#8
drbastard said:
I cannot help thinking that the violence and cruelty meted out was driven to some extent by their view of the girls as contemptible 'white infidel sluts'. The abuse was carried out by organised gangs and accompanied with violence, humiliation and torture. I don't think that can be easily compared with the crimes of Saville etc.
Then, you obviously haven't read much about Sir Jimmy Savile's alleged crimes, or his close friendship with, Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper. Savile was just a lot smarter.

Nor, as a theory, does it really explain the attitudes of the police, social workers, or care home attendants. They also appear to have considered the victims "contemptible 'white infidel sluts'", to some degree.
 

Quake42

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#9
I don't know about a conspiracy. As far as I can see, this case has less to do with, 'political correctness', cultural, or racial over-sensitivity and a lot more to do with the attitude to the victims. A lot of the time, whether it was the police, the social services, or the care homes involved, the all treated these young girls as if what happened to them was entirely their own fault.
Well, it's both I think. The girls were considered trash by police and social services and most of all by their abusers but I don't think there's much doubt that there has been a general reluctance to pursue these cases on the grounds of "community cohesion". The police in at least one other case have admitted as much and the Times published a leaked report from Rotherham a few months ago that was full of references to the risks posed to the diversity of the area if the matter was investigated.

Plus of course Nick Griffin was prosecuted in 2004 for referring to "Muslim rape gangs" at a public meeting. You don't have to hold much of a torch for Griffin to think it greatly disturbing for someone to be proscuted for referring to a serious crime and the police's lack of action on it.

Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall weren't Muslims, or foreigners, but they also preyed on their young victims not only because they could and because nobody stopped them, but also because nobody wanted to believe the victims
Indeed and there are similarities between the cases - the police were reluctant to investigate 70s celebs at the time and have until very recently been reluctant to investigate the current grooming gangs. But there are a lot of differences too; Savile and Hall appear to have worked alone, whereas these gangs seem to involve large numbers of extended family and friends. I find this odd - I don't think many men would be able to call their friends and family to invite then to participate in this sort of activity without running an extremely high risk of being reported to the police.

Plus in this case it wasn't just whether or not to believe the girls. The gang were caught red handed on at least one occasion and yet nothing appears to have been done.

The real problem doesn't lie in other cultures, it lies in our own
No, sorry, PM, you're way off base with this one. Almost all of those convicted of these types of crime have been Muslims from a rural, tribal Pakistani background (2 in this case were from East Africa). They are from a culture which is steeped in misogyny and insular to the point where they can feel confident in passing the girls around their extended family and friends without anyone blowing the whistle. (Incidentally, I have no idea why the BBC keeps referring to "Asian" gangs: none of them appear to be Chinese, Thai or indeed Indian.)

Unfortunately there is an attitude in such cultures that white Western women and girls are slags and may be treated as such. There appears to be a racial element in the choice of victims, with one girl being told by her abuser that the gang only targeted white girls. It is simply silly to pretend that the whole problem is with Western culture and let the culture of the perpatrators off the hook.

*Edited to (hopefully) fix quote errors
 

Cherrybomb

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#10
But it's our cultures view of these girls thats the issue here - the girls telling police or social services and getting no help - "we" view these girls as trash. Who cares if they've been beaten/raped/whatever, they were in kids homes anyway, so they must be lieing.
 

Quake42

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#11
But it's our cultures view of these girls thats the issue here - the girls telling police or social services and getting no help - "we" view these girls as trash. Who cares if they've been beaten/raped/whatever, they were in kids homes anyway, so they must be lieing.
Well, the main issue is that they're being beaten/raped/whatever in the first place. The reason for this appears to lie in a different culture.

The second issue is the official response to these crimes, which as you say seems to be informed by a view that the girls are trash and hence not worthy of being protected.

No one comes out of this smelling of roses.

As an aside I think this "street grooming" has been going on for years. There were certainly attempts at it in my small northern town more than 20 years ago, with almost all of the girls in my year group at school being approached by a particular individual. I should note that the vast majority of us were not in care or otherwise vulnerable! Again, reports of his behaviour resulted in no action - although he was later convicted of a serious sexual offence elsewhere.
 

Yithian

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#13
I think it's racist for us to forcibly project our White-Christian-Liberal values onto other groups solely on the grounds that they've come to settle in our country. Who's to say that our much-lauded enlightenment ideals are in any way superior to the word of God? And while protecting defenceless children is obviously quite important, can it really be said to overide the need for community cohesion? Assimilation is not legally-mandated, you know. Clearly these men should have stood trial in a court of their peers.

Besides, if it weren't for Britain's original atrocity of imperialism and the unfair exploitation of colonial resources it occasioned, the world would be a more harmonious and equal place and such groups would have no such imperative to emigrate here in the first place.

I blame us.
 
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#14
theyithian said:
I think it's racist for us to forcibly project our White-Christian-Liberal values onto other groups solely on the grounds that they've come to settle in our country. Who's to say that our much-lauded enlightenment ideals are in any way superior to the word of God? And while protecting defenceless children is obviously quite important, can it really be said to overide the need for community cohesion? Assimilation is not legally-mandated, you know. Clearly these men should have stood trial in a court of their peers.

Besides, if it weren't for Britain's original atrocity of imperialism and the unfair exploitation of colonial resources it occasioned, the world would be a more harmonious and equal place and such groups would have no such imperative to emigrate here in the first place.

I blame us.
Yes. Because this case, like the Rochdale case, is only about race and religion.
 

Quake42

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#15
Yes. Because this case, like the Rochdale case, is only about race and religion
It may not be *only* about race and religion but both are clearly pretty important factors. At least some of the perpetrators have admitted that their crimes were racially motivated and the police in West Yorkshire have admitted that their failure to deal with the crimes in the first place was at least partially due to the fact that the suspects came from a minority group.

Plus, even the hint of racism will derail a police officer or social worker's career much more quickly and effectively than incompetence.
 
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#16
Quake42 said:
Yes. Because this case, like the Rochdale case, is only about race and religion
It may not be *only* about race and religion but both are clearly pretty important factors. At least some of the perpetrators have admitted that their crimes were racially motivated and the police in West Yorkshire have admitted that their failure to deal with the crimes in the first place was at least partially due to the fact that the suspects came from a minority group.

Plus, even the hint of racism will derail a police officer or social worker's career much more quickly and effectively than incompetence.
Are they really important factors? There's been a lot of emphasis on race and religion, but a lot less on the bloody minded attitude of some of the authority figures involved, with regard to the victims.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-to-quit-over-exploitation-ring-8617831.html


Victims blamed for child sex abuse as Oxford council chief faces calls to quit over exploitation ring

Deputy Children’s Commissioner says senior child protection figures said the issue was of the victims' own making

The Independent. Kevin Rawlinson, Nigel Morris , John Hall. 15 May 2013



Victims of child sex exploitation are still being blamed for their own abuse by the people responsible for protecting them, the author of a major study into sex trafficking gangs has said.

Deputy Children's Commissioner Sue Berelowitz told the Independent she has spoken to senior child protection figures who said the issue was of the children's own making.

Her comments, which follow the convictions of seven members of the Oxford child sex gang, come as pressure mounts on the chief executive of Oxfordshire County Council Joanna Simons to resign over her organisation's failure to protect children in its care.

Five of the six girls who gave evidence in the trial at the Old Bailey were in the care of the council. Nevertheless, the gang was able to get away with raping, abusing and selling them for sex over an eight-year period.

Oxfordshire County Council has apologised for its failure to protect the girls. But chief executive Ms Simons said that although the council “take enormous responsibility for what's happened”, her “gut feeling” is that she will not resign.

Ms Simons said the council would be asking itself some “very hard questions” in the wake of the case, which involved girls as young as 11 being drugged and raped by members of one of Britain's biggest ever child sex gangs.

Ms Simons, who has been the council's chief executive since 2005, added: “There is going to be an independent serious case review which will look at the actions of all the agencies concerned... [but] my gut feeling is that I'm not going to resign because my determination is that we need to do all that we can to take action to stamp this out…These are devious crimes that are very complicated,” she told BBC Radio 4's the Today Programme.

Outlining the scale of the problem, Ms Berelowitz, whose office more than halfway through a two-year investigation into child sex gangs, said: “During the course of year one [of that investigation], we were still encountering very senior people at more than one local authority and one chair of a Local Safeguarding Children Board saying 'this is not a child protection issue because it is risky behaviour on the part of the children.”

She added: “The LSCB head said: 'yes, we have two girls like that who prostitute themselves'. [The girls in question] were 13 and 14 years old.” But she refused to name the specific organisations involved and said that she thought many of those in question were realising that their attitudes are not in line with the public's desire to provide protection to society's most vulnerable.

And Prime Minister David Cameron piled more pressure on the authorities which failed to uncover the gang for years, saying that police and council chiefs in Oxfordshire face “very searching questions”.

Mr Cameron expressed his horror over the targeting of girls as young as 11 when they were supposed to be in the safe keeping of Oxfordshire County Council.

Speaking in New York, he said: “The authorities - the police, social services, county council - everyone's going to have to ask some very searching questions about how this was allowed to continue for so long, and I know they are already doing that.”

The scandal follows the Rochdale child sex abuse revelations and the exposure of Jimmy Savile's activities over decades.

Mr Cameron, who is an Oxfordshire MP, said Theresa May, the Home Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, were working to draw together the lessons of the various paedophile scandals.

He said: “As for the individual authorities in Oxfordshire and the Thames Valley, I'm sure they will have to respond for themselves in terms of what happened.

”But there will have to be some pretty searching questions asked about how this was allowed to go on for so long.“

And one victim of the Oxford gang, seven members of which now face lengthy jail terms, has accused Oxfordshire county council of lying about the support it has offered to her and her family. The girl, known for legal reasons as ”Girl C“, said that her adoptive mother begged social services for help in 2004 but agencies just ”passed the parcel between them“.

Two years later the council agreed to put her in a temporary care home, but by then she had fallen under the control of the gang, who plied her with crack cocaine.

She said: ”The council put out a press release claiming they had offered wraparound care to all the girls and their families, but the first we heard from them in five years was a letter on April 13 from [a senior council officer], where he says he's been 'closely involved in providing support' to me.

“That's a complete lie. My family have had no support or offers of help at all from Oxfordshire. Nothing. Not at any point. Not even a phone call. The last contact we had with the council was five whole years ago, when my mum was begging them to help her stop me go off the rails. They ignored her then and they've ignored us since,
” she told the Guardian.

Girl C told police she was attacked by Bassam Karrar in a guest house in Oxford in November 2006 while he was said to be high on cocaine. Officers found the girl in the basement “extremely distressed, crying and shaking”.

She told police she had been held against her will, drugged, raped and repeatedly smacked in the face. The 14-year-old girl was taken to a police station where photographs were taken of her injuries. But she later dropped her complaint after pleas from another girl who was seeing Karrar at the time.

Thames Valley Police has also admitted its failings, saying that it was too reliant on the victims coming forward. However, the arrests which were finally made came after police began to fully understand the nature of a crime, about which most forces are still in the early stages of learning.

Officers began to forge closer relationships with the victims and with social services and other agencies in order to uncover and disrupt the abuse, rather than just work on cases which came to them.

“We have had to tread very, very carefully with the victims. You cannot build a relationship in a night, it takes months and months,” said Simon Morton, a former acting detective chief inspector with Thames Valley Police.

He added: “They have been through extreme abuse, possibly the most traumatic thing a child can go through - some were 10 or 11 when they had only just stopped believing in the Easter Bunny.”
 

Quake42

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#17
I don't think there's any dispute that the victims were let down by police and social services and I don't know where you get the idea from that there is little emphasis on this. The media is full of demands for the resignation of the Chief Constable and the director of children's services.

The question is whether the lack of action on the part if the authorities was at least partially a result of the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators and a fear of being accused of racism and/or damaging "community cohesion" in some way. Given that police in similar cases have admitted to this I don't know why you seem so sceptical that it was also a factor in Oxford.
 
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#18
Quake42 said:
I don't think there's any dispute that the victims were let down by police and social services and I don't know where you get the idea from that there is little emphasis on this. The media is full of demands for the resignation of the Chief Constable and the director of children's services.

The question is whether the lack of action on the part if the authorities was at least partially a result of the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators and a fear of being accused of racism and/or damaging "community cohesion" in some way. Given that police in similar cases have admitted to this I don't know why you seem so sceptical that it was also a factor in Oxford.
So, why is, " the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators and a fear of being accused of racism and/or damaging "community cohesion" in some way." suddenly a problem in these cases, when it doesn't seem to be a problem at other times? For example, according to the Guardian, at the beginning of last year, police in England and Wales are 30 times more likely to 'stop and search' black people, than they are white people. Where's the racial and cultural sensitivity there?

Perhaps, it's actually been easier to say that racial and cultural sensitivities were an issue rather than admitting the much more unpleasant fact that for years the authorities did nothing because the child victims were being blamed for their own abuse.
 

JamesWhitehead

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#19
The hobbled investigation of another troubling case is outlined here:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Charlene_Downes_murder

and in the following article:

Anorak.co Article

The so-called "Rochdale case" actually took place some three or four miles away, in Heywood, which has its own predominantly white working-class culture.

Despite having a close-up view of the tensions in these communities and listening at length to Muslim and white pupils, male and female - often in the setting of places of education which are more or less solidly one race or the other - I can only say that the crimes which hit the papers are just extreme outcrops of a fermenting situation which is exploited by the extreme right and effectively stifled or ignored by cries of "racism!"

Gender politics adds to the noise of these terrible events but does nothing to address the situation of all the lost girls. I have seen one or two places which - rather quietly - engage neglected girls in decidedly gendered activities: needlework, childcare, cooking and what used to be called domestic science. It sounds impossibly retro. when spelled out that way but the sight of calm groups co-operating on a shared project, untroubled, at least for a season, by demands they focus their minds on paid work, makes me feel that society has turned what used to be the backbone of working-class society into the scapegoats of a broken one. :(

edit: some rephrasing of last sentence.
 

Quake42

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#20
Yes, I hadn't heard of the Charlene Downes case until today. Deeply, deeply disturbing. There is another missing girl called Paige Chivers, who apparently frequented the same fast food outlets in Blackpool.

There are a lot of pending court cases involving grooming gangs. I think we're looking at the tip of a very nasty iceberg.
 

Quake42

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#21
why is the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators and fear of being accused of racism and/or damaging "community cohesion"... A problem in these cases, when it doesn't seem to be a problem at other times?
Because of the inflammatory nature of the accusations. Many of these towns, especially in the north, are already essentially segregated. If one community comes to believe that their children are being systematically targeted for rape and abuse by the other then the potential for violence and disorder is huge.

*Edit - indeed, race riots in Birmingham a few years ago were triggered by rumours that an Afro-Caribbean teenager had been gang raped by Pakistani men.
 
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#22
Quake42 said:
why is the ethnicity/religion of the perpetrators and fear of being accused of racism and/or damaging "community cohesion"... A problem in these cases, when it doesn't seem to be a problem at other times?
Because of the inflammatory nature of the accusations. Many of these towns, especially in the north, are already essentially segregated. If one community comes to believe that their children are being systematically targeted for rape and abuse by the other then the potential for violence and disorder is huge.

*Edit - indeed, race riots in Birmingham a few years ago were triggered by rumours that an Afro-Caribbean teenager had been gang raped by Pakistani men.
Well, that makes slightly more sense than claims of, 'Political Correctness gone mad'.

But, it still doesn't explain why the various authorities continued to sit on their hands for so long.
 

OneWingedBird

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#23
Because once they cover up something, for whatever reason, they then not only have to keep covering it up but also have to cover up the covering up, I'm not suggesting a conspiracy but when people back each other up 'right or wrong' in that sort of situation it quickly comes to a point where everyone ends up complicit.

Re race, I don't fully understand why asian is generally treated so differently to black but there does seem to be a difference.

The victim blaming simply strikes me as the warped mindset of far too many people who go into social work... their 'customers' always had a choice even if they were underage, vulnerable and coherced and regardless of who else failed them, they themselves, believing that this could be a career breaker for them, had no choice at all.
 

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#24
Re race, I don't fully understand why Asian is treated so differently to black
It's also misleading to keep using the word "Asian" particularly as two of the latest batch were from Eritrea which the last time I looked was in Africa. A lot of Sikhs and Hindus are very pissed off about this. It would be more accurate to refer to Muslim grooming gangs but the BBC in particular seems very wary of doing so.
 
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#25
Quake42 said:
Re race, I don't fully understand why Asian is treated so differently to black
It's also misleading to keep using the word "Asian" particularly as two of the latest batch were from Eritrea which the last time I looked was in Africa. A lot of Sikhs and Hindus are very pissed off about this. It would be more accurate to refer to Muslim grooming gangs but the BBC in particular seems very wary of doing so.
Muslim? Perhaps in much the same way that The Mafia, Columbian drug cartels and paedophile priests, are all Roman Catholic?

One of the problems appears to be a lot of very young, lost and vulnerable, girls wandering around the streets, especially late at night. It's no accident that some of the guys involved are minicab drivers, fast food workers and even drug couriers, working those unsocial hours at the arse end of existence. Befriend the girls, feed them, ply them with drink and drugs, entrap and abuse them. What seem to have started out as opportunist crimes, becoming increasingly organised over time. The Oxford mob seem to have been more organised criminals, with a regular drugs and financial fraud business running up and down the M4.

Good article here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ut-not-a-specifically-muslim-one-8616370.html
 

Quake42

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#26
Muslim? Perhaps in much the same way that The Mafia, Columbian drug cartels and paedophile priests, are all Roman Catholic?
The grooming gangs appear to be a specific cultural phenomenon, in much the same way as the abuser priests. Those priests are quite correctly referred to as being Roman Catholic and the BBC, Guardian and Independent have reported the scandal in the church with great gusto. Many of the reports pointed to the sexual repression, poor attitude to woman and culture of silence within Catholicism as factors which led to the abuse and the subsequent cover ups. They certainly didn't try to sugar the pill by talking about "European" priests, which would make roughly as much sense as referring to the grooming gangs as "Asian". I'm not sure why there is so much delicacy about this amongst the liberal media. It's also worth noting that there have been similar cases in Europe and elsewhere. As with the abuser priests, religion seems to be the common factor.

One of the problems appears to be a lot of very young, lost and vulnerable, girls wandering around the streets, especially late at night. It's no accident that some of the guys involved are minicab drivers, fast food workers and even drug couriers, working those unsocial hours at the arse end of existence. Befriend the girls, feed them, ply them with drink and drugs, entrap and abuse them. What seem to have started out as opportunist crimes
This is frequently given as an explanation but I'm not convinced it washes:

- there are plenty of taxi drivers and fast food workers from other cultures and none appear to have formed similar gangs
- it's incorrect to say that these are purely opportunistic crimes. Teenage girls from all sorts of backgrounds are approached in this way (as my own experience shows). Inevitably girls from stable homes are less likely to go along with the gangs than those who may not enjoy that stability. However in some of the cases not all of the girls have been from "vulnerable" backgrounds.
- at least some of the perpetrators have stated explicitly that they specifically sought out white girls to abuse. This can't simply be put down to opportunism.
- more liberal British Muslim voices have confirmed that there is a cultural issue with the way in which some in their communities see women, and in particular white or non-Muslim women, and that this attitude is in some cases reinforced by conservative imams in mosques.
 

Mythopoeika

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#27
The 'Muslim' connection may be because of the following:

There are a lot of sexually frustrated men in the Muslim community, and being mostly poor, they can't afford prostitutes. Being Muslim, they can't have sex with a woman of their community because of the religion/culture thing, until they get married. Some of them may be married, but aren't having any luck with their wives.
In fact, as lovers, these men may be generally pretty unsuccessful (and they know it).

So...they go off looking for somebody they can easily subdue, who isn't part of their restricted, closed-off community. They don't much care about how young their victim is because that person isn't a Muslim and the man they all model themselves upon had a 9-year-old wife (I didn't make that up). So they think it's OK to do all this to a child...they simply don't have the same morality as the rest of us.

This is why every religious leader in the Muslim world should be condemning this kind of behaviour and issuing pronouncements to stop it. But they won't, because none of them particularly care. :x
 

Cavynaut

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#28
JamesWhitehead said:
It sounds impossibly retro. when spelled out that way but the sight of calm groups co-operating on a shared project, untroubled, at least for a season, by demands they focus their minds on paid work, makes me feel that society has turned what used to be the backbone of working-class society into the scapegoats of a broken one. :(
Quite possibly the most intelligent post I have ever read on this forum. :D
 

McAvennie

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#29
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Quake42 said:
Yes. Because this case, like the Rochdale case, is only about race and religion
It may not be *only* about race and religion but both are clearly pretty important factors. At least some of the perpetrators have admitted that their crimes were racially motivated and the police in West Yorkshire have admitted that their failure to deal with the crimes in the first place was at least partially due to the fact that the suspects came from a minority group.

Plus, even the hint of racism will derail a police officer or social worker's career much more quickly and effectively than incompetence.
Are they really important factors? There's been a lot of emphasis on race and religion, but a lot less on the bloody minded attitude of some of the authority figures involved, with regard to the victims.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-to-quit-over-exploitation-ring-8617831.html


Victims blamed for child sex abuse as Oxford council chief faces calls to quit over exploitation ring

Deputy Children’s Commissioner says senior child protection figures said the issue was of the victims' own making

The Independent. Kevin Rawlinson, Nigel Morris , John Hall. 15 May 2013



Victims of child sex exploitation are still being blamed for their own abuse by the people responsible for protecting them, the author of a major study into sex trafficking gangs has said.

Deputy Children's Commissioner Sue Berelowitz told the Independent she has spoken to senior child protection figures who said the issue was of the children's own making.

Her comments, which follow the convictions of seven members of the Oxford child sex gang, come as pressure mounts on the chief executive of Oxfordshire County Council Joanna Simons to resign over her organisation's failure to protect children in its care.

Five of the six girls who gave evidence in the trial at the Old Bailey were in the care of the council. Nevertheless, the gang was able to get away with raping, abusing and selling them for sex over an eight-year period.

Oxfordshire County Council has apologised for its failure to protect the girls. But chief executive Ms Simons said that although the council “take enormous responsibility for what's happened”, her “gut feeling” is that she will not resign.

Ms Simons said the council would be asking itself some “very hard questions” in the wake of the case, which involved girls as young as 11 being drugged and raped by members of one of Britain's biggest ever child sex gangs.

Ms Simons, who has been the council's chief executive since 2005, added: “There is going to be an independent serious case review which will look at the actions of all the agencies concerned... [but] my gut feeling is that I'm not going to resign because my determination is that we need to do all that we can to take action to stamp this out…These are devious crimes that are very complicated,” she told BBC Radio 4's the Today Programme.

Outlining the scale of the problem, Ms Berelowitz, whose office more than halfway through a two-year investigation into child sex gangs, said: “During the course of year one [of that investigation], we were still encountering very senior people at more than one local authority and one chair of a Local Safeguarding Children Board saying 'this is not a child protection issue because it is risky behaviour on the part of the children.”

She added: “The LSCB head said: 'yes, we have two girls like that who prostitute themselves'. [The girls in question] were 13 and 14 years old.” But she refused to name the specific organisations involved and said that she thought many of those in question were realising that their attitudes are not in line with the public's desire to provide protection to society's most vulnerable.

And Prime Minister David Cameron piled more pressure on the authorities which failed to uncover the gang for years, saying that police and council chiefs in Oxfordshire face “very searching questions”.

Mr Cameron expressed his horror over the targeting of girls as young as 11 when they were supposed to be in the safe keeping of Oxfordshire County Council.

Speaking in New York, he said: “The authorities - the police, social services, county council - everyone's going to have to ask some very searching questions about how this was allowed to continue for so long, and I know they are already doing that.”

The scandal follows the Rochdale child sex abuse revelations and the exposure of Jimmy Savile's activities over decades.

Mr Cameron, who is an Oxfordshire MP, said Theresa May, the Home Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, were working to draw together the lessons of the various paedophile scandals.

He said: “As for the individual authorities in Oxfordshire and the Thames Valley, I'm sure they will have to respond for themselves in terms of what happened.

”But there will have to be some pretty searching questions asked about how this was allowed to go on for so long.“

And one victim of the Oxford gang, seven members of which now face lengthy jail terms, has accused Oxfordshire county council of lying about the support it has offered to her and her family. The girl, known for legal reasons as ”Girl C“, said that her adoptive mother begged social services for help in 2004 but agencies just ”passed the parcel between them“.

Two years later the council agreed to put her in a temporary care home, but by then she had fallen under the control of the gang, who plied her with crack cocaine.

She said: ”The council put out a press release claiming they had offered wraparound care to all the girls and their families, but the first we heard from them in five years was a letter on April 13 from [a senior council officer], where he says he's been 'closely involved in providing support' to me.

“That's a complete lie. My family have had no support or offers of help at all from Oxfordshire. Nothing. Not at any point. Not even a phone call. The last contact we had with the council was five whole years ago, when my mum was begging them to help her stop me go off the rails. They ignored her then and they've ignored us since,
” she told the Guardian.

Girl C told police she was attacked by Bassam Karrar in a guest house in Oxford in November 2006 while he was said to be high on cocaine. Officers found the girl in the basement “extremely distressed, crying and shaking”.

She told police she had been held against her will, drugged, raped and repeatedly smacked in the face. The 14-year-old girl was taken to a police station where photographs were taken of her injuries. But she later dropped her complaint after pleas from another girl who was seeing Karrar at the time.

Thames Valley Police has also admitted its failings, saying that it was too reliant on the victims coming forward. However, the arrests which were finally made came after police began to fully understand the nature of a crime, about which most forces are still in the early stages of learning.

Officers began to forge closer relationships with the victims and with social services and other agencies in order to uncover and disrupt the abuse, rather than just work on cases which came to them.

“We have had to tread very, very carefully with the victims. You cannot build a relationship in a night, it takes months and months,” said Simon Morton, a former acting detective chief inspector with Thames Valley Police.

He added: “They have been through extreme abuse, possibly the most traumatic thing a child can go through - some were 10 or 11 when they had only just stopped believing in the Easter Bunny.”
So the rape and abuse of these girls is not the thing to worry about, rather the fact that the police and social services didn't crack down on it quicker...

Amazing.
 

McAvennie

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#30
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Quake42 said:
Re race, I don't fully understand why Asian is treated so differently to black
It's also misleading to keep using the word "Asian" particularly as two of the latest batch were from Eritrea which the last time I looked was in Africa. A lot of Sikhs and Hindus are very pissed off about this. It would be more accurate to refer to Muslim grooming gangs but the BBC in particular seems very wary of doing so.
Muslim? Perhaps in much the same way that The Mafia, Columbian drug cartels and paedophile priests, are all Roman Catholic?

One of the problems appears to be a lot of very young, lost and vulnerable, girls wandering around the streets, especially late at night. It's no accident that some of the guys involved are minicab drivers, fast food workers and even drug couriers, working those unsocial hours at the arse end of existence. Befriend the girls, feed them, ply them with drink and drugs, entrap and abuse them. What seem to have started out as opportunist crimes, becoming increasingly organised over time. The Oxford mob seem to have been more organised criminals, with a regular drugs and financial fraud business running up and down the M4.

Good article here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ut-not-a-specifically-muslim-one-8616370.html
Pedant approaching...

Colombian! Personal bug-bear of mine the amount of times Columbia/Columbian is used to refer to Colombia/Colombians.
 
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