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Making the grade (angry)
No they can't. By definition something subliminal is only registered by the subconcious. If it is registered conciously then it is not subliminal.
Chris Morris in one of the programmes in the last series of Brass Eye flashed a one frame message "Grade is a c*nt" for 1/29th of a second. Not one complaint , just 1000's of students wearing out video recorders trying to find the relevant frame.
I'm trying very hard to find a problem with subliminally suggesting ideas that will help sell products and where the conspiricay is meant to be.
No they can't. By definition something subliminal is only registered by the subconcious. If it is registered conciously then it is not subliminal.
Chris Morris in one of the programmes in the last series of Brass Eye flashed a one frame message "Grade is a c*nt" for 1/29th of a second. Not one complaint , just 1000's of students wearing out video recorders trying to find the relevant frame.
I'm trying very hard to find a problem with subliminally suggesting ideas that will help sell products and where the conspiricay is meant to be.
A
It's about how you register the information Adrian. I've seen phycologists do tricks like this before... get someone to walk past a 'victim' with a number 43 on their shirt then ask the person to say a number between 1-100. If it works right then the person will say the number 43 but probably could not remember the person they had just walked past. This is the same logic being used in the origonal article about subliminal messages in advertising. The number was registerd subliminaly even though it was conciously visible.
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The power of suggestion
I too have seen these illusionists and magicians repeat seemingly impossible scenarios using the power of suggestion. A slight hand movement here, a poster with a number on it there and a nod of the head over there can lead a 'WILLING' participant into succeeding or failing in 'fantastic' scenarios.
BUT as you have pointed out, whilst these suggestions may be subliminal, they are not uncommon or sophistacated in everyday life. A lesson or two in simple psychology and body language would give anybody enough knowledge to repeat these 'amazing' experiments.
I'm still not seeing where the conspiracy is
I too have seen these illusionists and magicians repeat seemingly impossible scenarios using the power of suggestion. A slight hand movement here, a poster with a number on it there and a nod of the head over there can lead a 'WILLING' participant into succeeding or failing in 'fantastic' scenarios.
BUT as you have pointed out, whilst these suggestions may be subliminal, they are not uncommon or sophistacated in everyday life. A lesson or two in simple psychology and body language would give anybody enough knowledge to repeat these 'amazing' experiments.
I'm still not seeing where the conspiracy is
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Adam's maths
Adam, you are constantly adding 2 and 2 and getting 36. If you're suggesting that somehow the government or 'other' powers could subliminally get us to do whatever they want then you'd better WAKE UP my friend.
I'll compare the likelyhood of that to one of Uri Gellers 'hypnotize the nation' stunts being successful, it'll never, never happen.
Adam, you are constantly adding 2 and 2 and getting 36. If you're suggesting that somehow the government or 'other' powers could subliminally get us to do whatever they want then you'd better WAKE UP my friend.
I'll compare the likelyhood of that to one of Uri Gellers 'hypnotize the nation' stunts being successful, it'll never, never happen.
A
Adam. If you follow that link I posted, it says that there is no evidence to suggest that subliminal conditioning works.
Ok, it is just one site, but I find it persuasive. I think human beings are far too complex creatures to be susceptible to something like that. Maybe certain individuals could be vulnerable, but to suggest that the population as a whole could react to the same stimuli in exactly the same way is, frankly, laughable.
Ok, it is just one site, but I find it persuasive. I think human beings are far too complex creatures to be susceptible to something like that. Maybe certain individuals could be vulnerable, but to suggest that the population as a whole could react to the same stimuli in exactly the same way is, frankly, laughable.
A
I thought that the original "subliminal advert" (i.e. the "Eat popcorn, drink coke" cinema advert) was a hoax concocted between the "ad man" and the cinema it was tested in. 
You have to admit that it would pull the adverts in. ("Give me lots of money, and using my subliminal techniques I can get X times as many people to buy your product.") It was the advertisers that were being suckered here.
I'm always a bit sus. of the "If you look at the ice-cube at the bottom left of the glass, you can just about make out the shape of a skull" school of analysis (as in, I think, "The Hidden Persuaders.") There are plenty of natural simulcra printed in the pages of Fortean Times without advertisers having expend time and effort in deliberately planting them.
You have to admit that it would pull the adverts in. ("Give me lots of money, and using my subliminal techniques I can get X times as many people to buy your product.") It was the advertisers that were being suckered here.
I'm always a bit sus. of the "If you look at the ice-cube at the bottom left of the glass, you can just about make out the shape of a skull" school of analysis (as in, I think, "The Hidden Persuaders.") There are plenty of natural simulcra printed in the pages of Fortean Times without advertisers having expend time and effort in deliberately planting them.
A
When did I say any of that? And you accuse ME of being bad at maths.
You've already given your thoughts on the article so why are you coming back? Just becuase I posted an article it doesnt mean that I believe in what is said. You've directed that comment straight at me becuase you are of the misguided opinion that i believe advertisers are putting out 'suggestive' messages. Try having a discussion next time.
Probably true.
Cursed said:
Here's an idea for you, Adam.
Contact a local advertising agency, magazine or TV/radio station. Ask to do a week's work experience. See how it works for yourself.
Contact a local advertising agency, magazine or TV/radio station. Ask to do a week's work experience. See how it works for yourself.
Probably true.
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No offence meant Adam. I was merely trying to follow the conclusion to the advice you had given me.
Whilst the quote below may be true your posts would lead any anyone to think that you are defending the original articles position. You gave us no qualifying text in you first post and continued to argue the meaning of subliminal for a page and a half.
I think you did believe what it said.
By the way the reference to you adding 2 and 2 and getting 36 was a general observation about your postings, you are all too ready to blindly believe what some people present as fact without questioning their motives and therefor find conpiracies galore where there actually isn't any.
Whilst the quote below may be true your posts would lead any anyone to think that you are defending the original articles position. You gave us no qualifying text in you first post and continued to argue the meaning of subliminal for a page and a half.
I think you did believe what it said.
By the way the reference to you adding 2 and 2 and getting 36 was a general observation about your postings, you are all too ready to blindly believe what some people present as fact without questioning their motives and therefor find conpiracies galore where there actually isn't any.
A
Edward, please read my words carefully. I mean what I say. Don't try and change them to what you think I may have been implying.
Read the thread again. I came back becuase we were discussing the difference between 'suggestion' and 'subliminal'. At this point you returned with a clumsy attack at the origonal point made by someone else which you decided to attribute to me.
Read the thread again. I came back becuase we were discussing the difference between 'suggestion' and 'subliminal'. At this point you returned with a clumsy attack at the origonal point made by someone else which you decided to attribute to me.
A
Adam, Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are attacking you. And I definitely can't see how you think Cursed was doing so. The suggestion was, seeing as you seem so interested in the subject, you get a work experience placement and try and find out more about it first hand. Quite where this is an attack eludes me.
Your response, however, was an attack.
You should maybe stop being so defensive.
Your response, however, was an attack.
You should maybe stop being so defensive.
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OK then...
.. at your suggestion i have re-read the thread.
Could you explain EXACTLY the position which lead you to say this.
Perahaps I should suggest that YOU read the thread again. Where exactly is the following attack?
Being heavily involved in the offending industry I would like to continue the debate and therefore would find it usefil if you would clarify your position Adam. Cheers.
.. at your suggestion i have re-read the thread.
Could you explain EXACTLY the position which lead you to say this.
Perahaps I should suggest that YOU read the thread again. Where exactly is the following attack?
Being heavily involved in the offending industry I would like to continue the debate and therefore would find it usefil if you would clarify your position Adam. Cheers.
A
Re: OK then...
Did I?
It seemed pretty common sense to me... what would happen if the people at the top of the pyramid got control of capabilities to steer the people at the bottom more effectively.
Cursed made an out of context comment specifically aimed at me. I dont know how else to interpret it.
Did I?
It seemed pretty common sense to me... what would happen if the people at the top of the pyramid got control of capabilities to steer the people at the bottom more effectively.
Cursed made an out of context comment specifically aimed at me. I dont know how else to interpret it.
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I think that qualifies as a suggestion. As you weren't specific which words I had to start at the begining and therefore had read the whole thread.
Corporately and Politically this already occurs on a huge scale and has been occuring for hundreds if not thousands of years. It may now be more sophisticated but only because the audience is more sophisticated.
It is my job to 'effectively' sell ideas or products to people, depending on the sophistication of the product/idea and the audience dictates how sophisticated the research and application is.
There is no conspiracy.
Corporately and Politically this already occurs on a huge scale and has been occuring for hundreds if not thousands of years. It may now be more sophisticated but only because the audience is more sophisticated.
It is my job to 'effectively' sell ideas or products to people, depending on the sophistication of the product/idea and the audience dictates how sophisticated the research and application is.
There is no conspiracy.