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Submerged City: (India; Mamallapuram; Tamil Nadu; '7 Pagodas')

dot23

Justified & Ancient
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Divers 'discover' ancient temple

thought this might be of interest to people who attended the uncon, and general readers also. There's a link to the ananova coverage of the same story on the home page, but I'll include it here just for completeness.

Ananova link is as dead as Ananova. See later post below for salvaged text.
 
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They just showed pictures of it on BBC1 news.

They also wheeled on Hancock and his tame prof from Durham U. to put their view of the age of these ruins. NB These ruins are off the SE coast of India, near the land bridge that once existed linking it to Sri Lanka.

(For more on Hancock's ideas, see the Flooded Kingdoms thread.)
 
As a (very) amature (armchair) archaeologist it's nice to see those stuffed shirts of academia getting the wind put up them by a "fringe" researcher...

Go Hancock Go!

Niles "Archaeologist, failed" Calder
 
even though on reflection his research isn't watertight (badaboom *crash* - sorry couldn't resist) there's plenty of food for thought in his theories. If mainstream archeology is ignoring his ideas they're doing it at the detriment of human understanding of our past. It seems fairly obvious that there is some meat to his ideas, I just hope that his underwater temples and complexes bear up to further scientific scrutiny.
 
These remains are not that old, about 1200 years (AD 800) to 5000 (3000 BC) depending on whether they are the result of subsidence or inundation. In either event they are in no way are they the pre-Harapan or pre-Mesopotamian cities Hancock argues existed. There is no argument about the existence of civilisation at either of these dates.

The fact that Graham Hancock included them in his book is not proof of his thesis. It merely shows he loaded the book with unnecessary information. I've said in another thread that the book is overlong and overloaded with false leads.

There is intriguing evidence of urban life long before the classically accepted start of cities but still nothing conclusive
 
but at least he's willing to countenance the idea. In his talk at uncon he did seem to be intimating that these buildings (the mahaballipuram complex) were really ancient, however he was rushed, and possibly left out stuff pertaining to this which would have been relevant.

I'd like to read his book before I make any more judgements on the soundness of his thesis, but I like the idea in general ;)
 
intaglio said:
In either event they are in no way are they the pre-Harapan or pre-Mesopotamian cities Hancock argues existed. There is no argument about the existence of civilisation at either of these dates.

Urm, Intaglio... One of the lessons I clearly recall from my (limited) Archaelogical education is that:

"Lack of Evidence in NOT Evidence of Lack"
emphasis mine
Just becasue there is no evidence that there were any "pre-Harapan or pre-Mesopotamian" civilisations does not prove that there weren't!

Niles "...of course this contradicts what I've been saying about subjective universes..." Calder
 
intaglio said:
. . . There is intriguing evidence of urban life long before the classically accepted start of cities but still nothing conclusive
I wasn't arguing against the idea just saying that GH includes a whole lot of extraneous information. The book is 740pp long and in my own opinion the thesis, reports of evidence and a bit of travel journalism (if he has to) would fit nicely into 200pp.

I'll highlight my summing up from now on :D
 
India finds more 'tsunami gifts'

Indian divers have found more evidence of an ancient port city, apparently revealed by December's tsunami.
Stone structures that are "clearly man-made" were seen on the seabed off the south coast, archaeologists say.


They could be part of the mythical city of Mahabalipuram, which legend says was so beautiful that the gods sent a flood that engulfed six of its seven temples.

Other relics were revealed when the powerful waves washed away sand as they smashed into the Tamil Nadu coast.

'Clear pattern'

The Archaeological Survey of India launched the diving expedition after residents reported seeing a temple and other structures as the sea pulled back just before the tsunami hit.

The new finds were made close to the 7th Century beachfront Mahabalipuram temple, which some say is the structure that survived the wrath of the gods.

"We've found some stone structures which are clearly man-made," expedition leader Alok Tripathi told the AFP news agency.

"They're perfect rectangular blocks, arranged in a clear pattern."

The ancient "gifts" of the tsunami are expected to be presented to an international seminar on maritime archaeology in Delhi next month.

Other discoveries made at Mahabalipuram earlier this month include a granite lion of a similar age to the temple that experts believe had been buried for centuries before the tsunami shifted the sand.

Archaeologists have been working at the site for the last three years, since another diving expedition discovered what appeared to be a submerged city, including at least one temple.

The myths of Mahabalipuram were first written down by British traveller J Goldingham who was told of the "Seven Pagodas" when he visited in 1798.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/w ... 302115.stm
Published: 2005/02/27 12:59:12 GMT

© BBC MMV

also see: http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... 502#499502
 
Some info on Mahabalipuram:

Mamallapuram (Mahabalipuram) also close to Chennai (Madras) is on the shores of the Bay of Bengal, along the eastern coast.

Mamallapuram is known for its rocks carvings and monolithic sculptures has the famous shore temple, the only one to have survived the ravages of nature. Also known as the Seven Pagodas (temples), six now lie submerged in the sea. Known as the Pallava Art, this was built during the period 830 - 1100 AD.

Temple architecture found at Thirukulukundram, close to Mahabalipuram also belongs to the same period and is also part of the Pallava Art.
Also called Pakshi Theertam, the place today attracts devotees and visitors to witness the spectacle of a pair of kites homing in at 12 Noon to feed from food prepared and served by the temple priest after the regular prayers, known as the Pooja. The food, considered sacred is later distributed to the assembled devotees.

http://www.cyberfocusindia.com/Mahabalipuram.html

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Culture/Archit/Mahaba.html
 
... There's a link to the ananova coverage of the same story on the home page, but I'll include it here just for completeness.

The Ananova link is dead. Here's the content of the MIA article ...

Divers find ruins of mythical city off India
Explorers believe they have discovered remains of a mythical city off the coast of India.

According to legend it was swallowed up by the sea about 2,000 years ago.

An expedition from the Scientific Exploration Society and India's National Institute of Oceanography discovered the ruins off the coast of Mamallapuram in Tamil Nadu.

india_mythicalcity410x308.jpg

Structures which appear to be man-made were found at depths of five to seven metres.

Local legend tells of a great city containing seven temples, so beautiful that the jealous gods sent a flood to engulf it.

Author Graham Hancock, who has spent 10 years investigating early civilisations, joined the expedition. He is convinced the city is the same as the one referred to in the legend.

A spokeswoman for the Scientific Exploration Society said: "Southern India has a big tradition of myth that large areas were inundated by the sea. It's difficult to tell how old the site is. The NIO has said it is 1,500 to 2,000 years old.

"The ruins include walls, steps and stone blocks. The structures have been severely damaged over the years but are clearly man-made. Everyone is very excited about the discovery."

In January scientists announced the discovery of an ancient metropolis 120ft under the sea in the Gulf of Khambhat, north-west India, which could be one of the oldest cities known. Fragments of pottery, carved wood, bone and beads have been dated to more than 9,000 years old.

Mr Hancock believes the discovery supports his theory that complex civilisations existed in the Ice Age but were wiped out when the ice melted, submerging 15 million square miles of land.

SALVAGED FROM: https://web.archive.org/web/20021021045103/https://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_563330.html
 
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